Question: Collecting money after Khutbah

[Ershad]

Assalamu Alaikkum wa rahamatullahi wa barakatuhu,

In the mosque I pray, every friday, after the Khutbah, a person walks through the rows, and collects money for the mosque activities from the people. It is sort of regular activity, every friday. Right now, I pray in a "turkish" mosque. In Europe, there are different mosques - by turkish, I mean most people are turkish in this mosque. We have also morroccan and indonesian mosques. So, this activity happens in the turkish mosque. This practice was also there in my mosque, back home in India.

My question is, since people sort of do it regularly after the khutbah, is this a bid'ah? If, I pay them regularly, will I be part of this bid'ah? Is it permissible for me to pray in such mosque? I am confused because I really can't classify it as a bid'ah from my point of view. However, my point of view doesn't really matter. What is the islamic ruling on this?

Jazakumallahu Khairan for your answers.

 

[Idris16]

Bid`ah is doing something or introducing a new thing into the religion in order to become closer to Allaah. For example the Mawlid, which is an innovation. People celebrate it in order to become closer to Allaah.

 

[Rustandi]

Assalamu Alaikkum wa rahamatullahi wa barakatuhu,

In the mosque I pray, every friday, after the Khutbah, a person walks through the rows, and collects money for the mosque activities from the people. It is sort of regular activity, every friday. Right now, I pray in a "turkish" mosque. In Europe, there are different mosques - by turkish, I mean most people are turkish in this mosque. We have also morroccan and indonesian mosques. So, this activity happens in the turkish mosque. This practice was also there in my mosque, back home in India.

My question is, since people sort of do it regularly after the khutbah, is this a bid'ah? If, I pay them regularly, will I be part of this bid'ah? Is it permissible for me to pray in such mosque? I am confused because I really can't classify it as a bid'ah from my point of view. However, my point of view doesn't really matter. What is the islamic ruling on this?

Jazakumallahu Khairan for your answers.

found something in islamqa , is this what you need?

Ruling on collecting donations during the Jumu’ah khutbah

What is the ruling on collecting donations during the second Jumu’ah khutbah, when the khateeb calls for that? What is the ruling on doing that at the time of the du’aa’ in the second khutbah? Is Jumu’ah prayer invalidated by giving donations during the khutbah? Is the Jumu’ah prayer of those who go among the rows to collect donations invalidated?.

Praise be to Allaah.
Firstly:

Those who attend Friday prayers should focus fully on the khutbah. It is not permissible to be distracted from it, whether by returning a greeting or denouncing one who talks during the khutbah.

It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever does wudoo’ and does wudoo’ well, then comes to Jumu’ah and listens attentively, will be forgiven (his sins) between that and (the next) Jumu’ah, and three days in addition to that, but whoever touches the pebbles has engaged in an idle action.” Narrated by Muslim (875).

Al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

The words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), “but whoever touches the pebbles has engaged in an idle action” show that touching the pebbles and other kinds of fidgeting during the khutbah are forbidden. This indicates that the heart should be focused fully on the khutbah. What is meant by idle action is false and blameworthy things. End quote.

Sharh Muslim (6/147)

Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan (may Allaah preserve him) said:

It is not permissible to fidget during the khutbah with one’s hand, foot, beard, garment or anything else, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “but whoever touches the pebbles has engaged in an idle action.” According to another hadeeth: “Whoever engages in idle actions or steps over the people’s necks, it is Zuhr prayer for him.” Because fidgeting prevents khushoo’ (proper focus and humility). Similarly, it is not appropriate for him to turn to his right or left, or be distracted by looking at the people, and so on, because that distracts him from listening to the khutbah. Rather he should face towards the khateeb as the Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them) used to face towards the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) during the khutbah. End quote.

Al-Mulakhkhas al-Fiqhi (1/176).

Collecting donations from the people who are attending the Jumu’ah khutbah distracts them greatly from the khutbah. It causes movement on the part of the one collecting the donations and the people who are giving them, and it involves the collector stepping over the necks of people. All of that is forbidden and goes against the purpose of Jumu’ah and the khutbah. This is not necessary, because donations can be delayed until after the prayer has ended. The one who does that is deprived of the reward of Jumu’ah and it is merely Zuhr for him.

It was narrated from ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr ibn al-‘Aas (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever does ghusl on Friday and puts on some of his wife’s perfume, if she has any, and puts on his best clothes then does not step over the people’s necks and does not engage in idle actions during the exhortation, that will be an expiation for whatever comes between them (two Fridays). But the one who engages in idle actions and steps over the people’s necks, it will be Zuhr for him.” Narrated by Abu Dawood (347); classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Targheeb (721). i.e., it will be like Zuhr in reward, and because of his idle actions and stepping over people’s necks, he will be deprived of the great reward which is attained by the one who prays Jumu’ah. ‘Awn al-Ma’bood.

Shaykh al-Fawzaan (may Allaah preserve him) said:

It is not permissible for the one who is listening to the khutbah to give charity to a beggar during the khutbah, because the beggar has done something that it is not permissible for him to do, so he should not help him in doing something that is not permissible, which is speaking during the khutbah. End quote.

Al-Mulakhkhas al-Fiqhi (1/175).

Secondly:

The prohibition on speaking or playing with the pebbles etc applies equally both at the beginning of the khutbah and during the du’aa’. What some of the fuqaha’ said about it being permissible to speak during the du’aa’ is a weak view.

Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Some of the fuqaha’ (may Allaah have mercy on them) said that when the imam starts to say du’aa’ during the khutbah, it is permissible to speak, because the du’aa’ is not one of the pillars (essential parts) of the khutbah, and speaking during something that is not one of the pillars of the khutbah is permissible. But this is a weak view, because so long as the du’aa’ is connected to the khutbah it is part of it. It was narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to pray for forgiveness for the believers every Friday during the khutbah.

The correct view is that so long as the imam is speaking, whether it is the essential parts of the khutbah or what comes after it, speaking is haraam. End quote.

Al-Sharh al-Mumti’ (5/110).

And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A

In most mosques here in Indonesia, the collections are done BEFORE the khutbah by the way..

 

[Ershad]

Exactly. But, isn't something innovated in the prayer also innovation? This issue walks on the fine line between Bid'ah and not-Bidah. That is why I am confused. Jummah is a religious duty. So, isn't this component a bida'h?

 

[Ershad]

found something in islamqa , is this what you need?




In most mosques here in Indonesia, the collections are done BEFORE the khutbah by the way..

Assalamu Alaikkum wa rahamatullahi wa barakatuhu,

Collecting donations from the people who are attending the Jumu’ah khutbah distracts them greatly from the khutbah. It causes movement on the part of the one collecting the donations and the people who are giving them, and it involves the collector stepping over the necks of people. All of that is forbidden and goes against the purpose of Jumu’ah and the khutbah. This is not necessary, because donations can be delayed until after the prayer has ended. The one who does that is deprived of the reward of Jumu’ah and it is merely Zuhr for him.

It was narrated from ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr ibn al-‘Aas (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever does ghusl on Friday and puts on some of his wife’s perfume, if she has any, and puts on his best clothes then does not step over the people’s necks and does not engage in idle actions during the exhortation, that will be an expiation for whatever comes between them (two Fridays). But the one who engages in idle actions and steps over the people’s necks, it will be Zuhr for him.” Narrated by Abu Dawood (347); classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Targheeb (721). i.e., it will be like Zuhr in reward, and because of his idle actions and stepping over people’s necks, he will be deprived of the great reward which is attained by the one who prays Jumu’ah. ‘Awn al-Ma’bood.

Exactly, this is what I was looking for. Here, they collected after Khutbah, but before prayer. Does that mean it is forbidden?

If it is, what should I do? I cant really speak to them because they don't understand English and I can't speak turkish (or) arabic.

 

[Rustandi]

Assalamu Alaikkum wa rahamatullahi wa barakatuhu,



Exactly, this is what I was looking for. Here, they collected after Khutbah, but before prayer. Does that mean it is forbidden?

If it is, what should I do? I cant really speak to them because they don't understand English and I can't speak turkish (or) arabic.

Wa'alaykumussalaam warahmatullahi wa barakaatuh


I'm not sure about this, so i'll just say i don't know, rather than saying something from my hawaa, let's just wait for the others who have knowledge about this to answer.

 

[OsMaN_93]

Obviously this masjid is managed by an Imam or Sheikh who is knowledgeable enough to be at this respectable position. If it was wrong, they wouldn't be doing it...

Don't bother too much with this bid'aa business, as long as something brings one closer to Allah (and isn't exclusively forbidden) then it is good. BTW nearly every masjid has a collection box, every jumaa (friday), at the door for people to donate...

wasalam alikom

 

[John Smith]

I just dont like the idea of someone shaking a bucket before or even after jummah salat,its not from the sunnah and it has beome so common in our masjids that people find it acceptable.

You get the guilty feeling walking past a bucket shaker whilst around you put some donations into the bucket,but the way i see it is that when giving charity you should not let your left hand know what your right hand is giving.

People feel obliged to give out of guilt rather than with ikhlas.

 

[Idris16]

Obviously this masjid is managed by an Imam or Sheikh who is knowledgeable enough to be at this respectable position. If it was wrong, they wouldn't be doing it...

Yeah right, fake imams that shave their beard and dont speak about relevant matters in their khutbahs. If they see wrong they keep quite. They narrate stories instead narrating the kalaam of the Prophet

 

[esperanza]

I just dont like the idea of someone shaking a bucket before or even after jummah salat,its not from the sunnah and it has beome so common in our masjids that people find it acceptable.

You get the guilty feeling walking past a bucket shaker whilst around you put some donations into the bucket,but the way i see it is that when giving charity you should not let your left hand know what your right hand is giving.

People feel obliged to give out of guilt rather than with ikhlas.

why shouldnt people collect money in the masjid

 

[John Smith]

why shouldnt people collect money in the masjid

Im not saying that they should not, but there is a way of collecting money.

I actually hate giving money in front of people in fear of pride.

What is the actuall sunnah of the prophet (pbuh) and companions in collecting money in the masjid? and did they ever stand with a bucket shaking it or even walking through the rows?

 

[esperanza]

Im not saying that they should not, but there is a way of collecting money.

I actually hate giving money in front of people in fear of pride.

What is the actuall sunnah of the prophet (pbuh) and companions in collecting money in the masjid? and did they ever stand with a bucket shaking it or even walking through the rows?

yes yes isee your point ,they can leave a clcolletion box in one place and who wants to give can give

 

[John Smith]

yes yes isee your point ,they can leave a clcolletion box in one place and who wants to give can give

A reminder on entrance or exiting should be obligatory reminding us of our duty to give for the masjid,poor and those who are not fortunate as us.

I would not even leave a box in the corner,just a sign pointing in the direction for donations should suffice.

All masjids have an office and im sure they will accept donations at any given time,afterall the upkeep of the masjid is of the people who use the facilities the masjid provides.

 

[Ershad]

Yeah right, fake imams that shave their beard and dont speak about relevant matters in their khutbahs. If they see wrong they keep quite. They narrate stories instead narrating the kalaam of the Prophet

:salam2:

Lol. The problem is I can't talk to the muslims there. I found it hard to ask people the time of Eid Salat before the day of Eid. So, I guess, as long as, this issue doesn't invalidate my salaah, I can keep mum about it. But, still the doubt lingers. I had this doubt because I read that it is impermissible to pray in a mosque of innovators. But, this mosque doesn't really seem like a sufi or shia mosque.

 

[sachin4islam]

Assalamu Alaikum:

Every transparency is maintained regarding the money collected after Jummah prayer. We have a notice board at ground floor of the Masjid where the detail of money collected is written.

Donating money after Jummah prayer is optional,if you find it unreasonable to give the money abstain from it.

But I personally feel,the maintenance of Masjid,salary of Imaam and other activities related to Deen solely depend on these charities.

Regards.

 

[Ershad]

Assalamu Alaikum:

Every transparency is maintained regarding the money collected after Jummah prayer. We have a notice board at ground floor of the Masjid where the detail of money collected is written.

Donating money after Jummah prayer is optional,if you find it unreasonable to give the money abstain from it.

But I personally feel,the maintenance of Masjid,salary of Imaam and other activities related to Deen solely depend on these charities.

Regards.

Brother, I have no problems with giving money or something. If it were something like collecting it or keep a box at the exit after the Jummah, I wouldn't have seen it as a problem. This happens after the Khutbah, just before the prayer and regularly. Previously, I thought it is a custom in every mosque during Jummah. However, I read there is sunnah of Jummah also. Then, will this activity be going with the sunnah? Is it permissible. The above fatwa implies it is not permissible and says, such Jummah would be considered as just a Zuhr prayer. That is really upsetting.

 

[sachin4islam]

Assalamu Alaikum: Br Ershad.

May Allah (SWT) forgive,but you should try to pray at Masjids other than those handled by Turkish people. By Allah,I haven't seen (in general) deviant practices elsewhere more than those by Turkish people.

They have even sketched pictures of Ali (r.a). Once I came across a sort of devotional song by a Turkish singer " Nelaufer". I didn't understand the song but its title "Tavhit" and repeated names of Muhammad (SAW) and Ali (r.a) during the song indicated the song was about in praise of Muhammad (SAW) and Ali (r.a). The worst thing was that the singer was in a very vulgar dress and even those (woman) seated at performance stage were dressed in the same fashion.

Regards.

 

[Idris16]

In my masjid, they collect money after Salat al-Jumuah and not during the khutbah or before the Salat. That would not be good!! We have to concentrate.

 

[Ershad]

Assalamu Alaikum: Br Ershad.

May Allah (SWT) forgive,but you should try to pray at Masjids other than those handled by Turkish people. By Allah,I haven't seen (in general) deviant practices elsewhere more than those by Turkish people.

They have even sketched pictures of Ali (r.a). Once I came across a sort of devotional song by a Turkish singer " Nelaufer". I didn't understand the song but its title "Tavhit" and repeated names of Muhammad (SAW) and Ali (r.a) during the song indicated the song was about in praise of Muhammad (SAW) and Ali (r.a). The worst thing was that the singer was in a very vulgar dress and even those (woman) seated at performance stage were dressed in the same fashion.

Regards.

I think every country has Shia, Sunni and Sufi groups. The mosque I go, I haven't really found anything suspicious, apart from there was a song sung by two kids (male) in the praise of the prophet during Eid. I guess that is okay (or not?). And moreover, this mosque features in the website of other two mosques i.e. the morroccan and the indonesian mosques ( which are perfectly sunni mosques ) in this city. I go to the turkish mosque because it is the only accessible mosque from my house. The others are miles away.

However, another question just came to my mind. Is it okay to pray behind an Imam with no beard ( I mean he shaves the beard) ?

 

[Idris16]

However, another question just came to my mind. Is it okay to pray behind an Imam with no beard ( I mean he shaves the beard) ?

Ibn Hazm said in “Al-Muhallā”, Vol. 3/129, “From ‘Ubaydillāh Ibn ‘Adī Ibn Al- Khayyār, that he entered upon ‘Uthmān, may Allāh be pleased with him, while he was confined, then he said to him, ‘Verily, you are the general Imām, and that which we see has befallen you, and an Imām of Fitnah is leading us in prayer, and we are uncomfortable.’ So ‘Uthmān said to him, ‘Verily, the Salāt is the best of what people perform, so if the people do good, then do good with them, and if they do bad, then avoid their evil.’

And Ibn ‘Umar used to pray behind Al-Hajjāj and Najdah; One of the two was a Khārijī, and the second is the most evil of mankind.

And Ibn ‘Umar used to say, ‘The Salāt is a good deed, I do not care who shares with me in it.’

And from Ibn Jurayj, ‘I said to ‘Atā’, ‘Do you see an Imām who delays the Salāt, to the point that he prays it being negligent in it?’ He said, ‘I will pray with the Jamā’ah, (as) it is more beloved to me.’ I said, ‘Even if the sun has become yellow and joined with the heads of the mountains?’ He said, ‘Yes, as long as it has not disappeared.’ I said to ‘Atā’, ‘But if the Imām does not fulfill the Salāt, should I avoid the Jamā’ah with him?’ He said, ‘Rather pray with him, and fulfill what you are able to. The Jamā’ah is more beloved to me.’

And from ‘Abdur-Razzāq, from Sufyān Ath-Thawrī, from ‘Uqbah Ibn Abī Wā’il, that he used to pray the Jamā’ah with Al-Mukhtār Al-Kath’thāb.

And from Abī Al-Ash’ath, who said, ‘The Khawārij emerged over us, so I asked Yahyā Ibn Abī Kathīr, so I said, ‘O Abū Nasr, how do you see the Salāt behind those ones?’ He said, ‘The Qur’ān is your Imām. Pray with them as long as they pray it (i.e. pray with the Qur’ān).’”

And from Ibrāhīm An-Nakh’ī, ‘I said to ‘Alqamah, ‘Our Imām does not complete the Salāt?’ ‘Alqamah said, ‘But we complete it.’ Meaning we pray with him and complete it.

And from Al-Hasan, ‘The Mu’min is not harmed by his prayer behind a Munāfiq, and the Munāfiq is not benefited by his prayer behind a Mu’min.’

And from Qatādah, ‘I said to Sa’īd Ibn Al-Musayyib, ‘Do we pray behind Al- Hajjāj?’ He said, ‘Verily, we pray behind he who is more evil than him.’

‘Alī – in other words, Ibn Hazm – said, ‘We do not know anyone from the Sahābah, may Allāh be pleased with them, who refused to pray behind Al-Mukhtār, ‘Ubaydillāh Ibn Ziyād, and Al-Hajjāj, and there is no Fāsiq who has more Fisq than those ones. And all of this is the opinion of Abū Hanīfah, Ash- Shāfi’ī and Abū Sulaymān.’”

http://en.altartosi.com/expertsMasjidDiraar.htm#The Sixth Issue