afghan woman stoned

[Sakeena]

Ya Allah!

Sister Precious Star, this one sister argued me down when I wrote on my Wall on Facebook that I was proud that Gadaffi was killed. She said we Muslims don't stand against Muslim leaders. I was so shocked and angry! What's wrong with you people? Why can't you see the taliban for what it really is??

You gonna defend these tyrants just because they call themselves Muslim??

How foolish!!

 

[Precious Star]

Ya Allah!

Sister Precious Star, this one sister argued me down when I wrote on my Wall on Facebook that I was proud that Gadaffi was killed. She said we Muslims don't stand against Muslim leaders. I was so shocked and angry! What's wrong with you people? Why can't you see the taliban for what it really is??

You gonna defend these tyrants just because they call themselves Muslim??

How foolish!!

Gaddafi was a muslim leader??? Now THAT is news to me! Libya was never a muslim state. It was a secular dictatorship. There is nothing about that country that was run Islamically. It was a functioning society, I will agree to that. But Gaddafi? The country was in dire poverty, while he exhibited such indecency with his wealth.

I don't agree that he should have been killed. But to say he is a "muslim leader" implies that he is a muslim role model.

Look, there are good muslims, there are bad muslims. There are muslims that live righteous lives, there are muslims that lead criminal lives. There are middle of the road muslims and there are high-end, salafi muslims. But the fact that you are a muslim does not mean that you are automatically living a life that should be followed by others. We all sin. All of us. Some more than others. We should look to the righteous to find our leaders.

 

[finding light]

I have a huge problem with religious people accusing me or others of following the kuffr. Because it is a sin to do. On the day of Judgement, Allah will issue his opinion. But for you or anyone else to say I am following the kuffr - just because I disagree with your point of view....No one has the right to say that. There is pride and judgement and embedded in that attitude.

I find that when people on this forum disagree with each other, they judge. No one is better than the other.

I agree, no1 has the right to judge another for being a better or worse Muslim. Only Allah knows what is inside us.

If I may offer my humble opinion on all this....
Firslty, I dont think it was the Taliban. Two men were arrested by the police after this - sounds like a flat-out murder to me. A lot of "groups of men" or even individuals (all around the arab world) go around claiming that they are taliban or al-qaeda after committing crimes and these organisations would not come forward to say yes or no because they thrive on this - i think. i feel like it doesnt matter to them if they are attributed with a crime they didnt commit...
As for this case of the woman and girl, yes, this is MURDER. nothing was proven (or mentioned to be proven). if this was a legitimate case, both would be in police/taliban custody as a trial needs to take place to determine guilt. Since they were arrested at home, it suggests that no trial was in place, no effort to prove or disprove innocence...
So overall I dont think this is the Taliban at alll, whether or not they do actually do these kinds of things, i dont know for sure. as mentioned before by a few ppl, we cant always believe everything we see and hear in the news - ALL NEWS...

 

[finding light]

and they aren't dying even in Africa!

A little offense taken by this (being "African")... A lot of countries in Africa have very advanced medical care and state of the art hospitals with up to date technologies. most doctores operating in the developed world are those that were educated and practiced in Africa... So it is quite believable that childbirth deaths are less, it shouldnt be surprising.... (as implied in your statement)

You just shouldnt generalise on an entire CONTINENT

 

[lovefordeen]

assalaamu alaikum

i don't want to comment on the article as the woman who died was a muslim ...and if anybody has done her wrong,Allah will punish them...

i just can't stop wondering why there's so much discussion about muslim women's rights and status by the kufr when the state of kufr women is the worst...don't they look at their own women and sympathize with them before they start all this so called sympathizing about muslim women..think about it,do they "really care" or do they have other intentions...if islam is practised properly,i'm sure that there is no other law or religion which protects or respects women more...

when kufr women dress up for strangers and walk half naked in the streets increasing corruption in the land,people just enjoy their beauty and keep quiet.

when kufr women stage naked protests,people call it liberalization and freedom..but when a muslim women chooses to cover herself from predatory eyes,people call it oppression..why don't the kufr talk about freedom when muslim women want to wear the hijab in certain countries..why are the kufr "oppressing" them by not allowing them to wear hijab and niqab while they talk so much about "freedom"...why do these freedom lovers suddenly vanish when it comes to the right of wearing hijab...

when a kufr woman has to work all day to support her husband;and juggles to do all the housework by herself and raise the kids,she's considered to be liberalized;but when a muslim woman is blessed to stay at home and has no worries about maintenance while her husband takes care of all her needs and some even have servants to do the housework,yet the kufr call her oppressed..now,who's the one who's really oppressed...

why don't these people think about the feelings of a kufr woman who has to share her husband with many mistresses because of his casanova nature... and she and her children die of aids,a gift by her womanizing husband...why doesn't anybody sympathize with her feelings(she may not have chosen to have aids) ;and not just about a muslim woman who is not allowed to drive a car..alhamdulilah,the muslim woman may not be able to drive a car in saudi arabia,but she's treated with more respect in society and is pampered by her husband with lavish gifs and a luxurious lifestyle that most kufr women cannot even dream of..

what about the kufr wife who is forced to sleep with her husband's friend as part of "wife swapping"...why don't the feminists cry for her..

everybody seems to forget about the sad stories of kufr women when they are raped and sexually harressed by their own family,but if happens to an unfortunate muslim woman,it lingers in the minds of the people(thanks to the media) for a very long time..

what about kufr women who suffer from anorexia and bulimia so that they can look good for the stranger...why don't these feminists turn their attention to these women who suffer pain and anxiety and surgery pains to look appealing to strange men..doesn't that pain come in their "sufferings list"

why doesn't anybody think of the sufferings of a kufr actress when she has to sleep with directors and producers so that she can have a meaty role in a film...or those kufr women who have to sleep with their boss either for a job or promotion..isn't that worth sympathizing..

what about those kufr teens who die in hospitals because they chose a cheap doctor for abortion as the didn't want their parents to know... . don't these sympathize with these women because they didn't have good health care at that time...
.

why don't these so called " women sympathizers" write about the poor prostitutes in the west...aren't they women..

why doesn't anybody feel for the poor female fetus when she is aborted in the kufr societies just because Allah made them female...aren't they supposed to grow up and become "women" and have a right not to die before seeing daylight...

why don't the same people turn their attentions to the poor innocent children who grow up in the streets or in foster homes because their parents did adultery and didn't choose to take responsbility for them..were they punished by the law of Allah,people would think twice before becoming to be adulterous....

i could go on and on insha'allah
.
i'm not supporting taliban nor am i against it as my knowledge is very limited...but just as i feel for any chaste muslim woman who is punished(i don't feel sympathy if an adulterous man and woman are stoned to death provided there are witnesses and they were truly adulterous),i feel the same sorrow for the many innocent men and women who die in afganisthan and palestine at the hands of the kufr..and even the innocent children..what wrong did they do....i ask again..what was their fault...why don't these women sympathizers at least sympathize for these innocent children if not the women who die this way....tears stream down my face when i see the brutal images...

May Allah forgive me if i have said something wrong..


brothers and sisters...lets stop arguing with each other and focus on something else worth discussing...

assalaamu alaikum

 

[a_stranger]

Very well said sister, mashaallah , it is due to the weakness of many muslems who let others decide what is correct or not , while Quran and Sunna are bright like sun showing us the best way.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Sister,

No..you can not shatter my world.

In rereading your response to me..it would take a hundred threads to discuss many of your views...


All I asked for was where is the proof that the Taliban were behind the killing? I asked what was the nature of the diplomatic mission in which your friend was mutilated? And once again, I asked who took responsibility for that.

I did not get a response.

 

[Perseveranze]

I know a girl who recently travelled to Afghanistan, on a diplomatic mission. Very nice muslim girl, only 26 years old. She thought she was doing good.

The vehicle in whch she was travelling one day was bombed by the Taliban.

This girl almost lost her life. But she didn't. Instead, she lost her leg, almost lost the other one, and sustained severe internal injuries. She will never be the same. It has been 1.5 years and she is still in the hospital.

And no, I did not hear it on BBC. I heard it from her mother, her father, her sisters, her aunts, my own father who visited her in the hospital every day once she was returned to this country.

So I take offence at people who tell me that I am misinfrormed. I do not need your forgiveness Perzeverence, to be blunt. Trust me, I have spoken to MANY women who have experienced hardship in Afghanistan.

I honestly doubt that, and it's ironic you'd only mention this after I had refuted you in regards to Taliban targetting civilians. I mean, you seem to be 100% that it was taliban when there's far more chances that it could've been the USA army.

And I forgave you not for what your saying, but for doubting the sources I gave, which aren't from BBC, but from the Taliban's website itself.

 

[wantobeMumin]

:salam2:

i love it when we find things to fight about...putting words in each others mouth*end of sarcasm*


people should remember that just being a muslim does not mean that some of us are not capable of committing barbaric acts in the name of islam. its a very sad reality and Allah knows best.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Whose fighting? I am never never sarcastic.. We, as Muslims are not be sarcastic.

I am just asking for proof..and none has been provided...

There have been assumptions and a lot of rhetoric..but no proof.

So please do not put me in the group of the sarcastic or the judgmental. I am only called judgmental when an answer is not provided.

 

[Precious Star]

Assalaam walaikum,

Sister,

No..you can not shatter my world.

In rereading your response to me..it would take a hundred threads to discuss many of your views...


All I asked for was where is the proof that the Taliban were behind the killing? I asked what was the nature of the diplomatic mission in which your friend was mutilated? And once again, I asked who took responsibility for that.

I did not get a response.

Aapa, I did give you a response. Read my posts carefully.

 

[luluimaan]

Salaam lovelies,

Wow, this started off as reporting that a woman and her daughter got stoned to death and shot. Everybody went off in all kinds of crazy directions, and suddenly there were like three arguments going on at once.

My first thought was WHY WAS THE DAUGHTER KILLED????

Islam is a faith of variation in practice. We all don't have the same knowledge about the same issues or hadith or sunnah, so we can't all be on the same page. Don't yell at someone because they didn't know something specifically. Love your neighbor.

And let's be honest, just because something is reported, doesn't mean squat. Media, government, military groups, organizations, etc., usually don't tell the truth, or at least not the entire truth, so the fact that WE are arguing about the Taliban is silly. Unless you are over there in Iran, you don't know what's going on. And what happens in one family in Iran isn't exactly the same as another family.

Astaghfirullah. We have no right to make generalizations about ANYTHING. Allah (swt) knows best, and I'll be honest, to me, this is disappointing. I know you probably don't care, but I came to this site, a convert, to learn about Islam, not to watch people have petty arguments about things we shouldn't be discussing because we have no idea first hand what has really happened, and thus, we have no proof. A website is not proof. Wikipedia is not proof. Third hand accounts are not proof.

The Prophet (saws) said that if a person had nothing good to say, it was best to remain silent. Attacking one another is not good. It is not peace, it is not understanding, it is not Islam.

I pray you will not let Shaytan tempt you into thinking negative thoughts about your brothers and sisters in Islam, and especially the kufr. Think of how sad it must be for them, to not know what we know, to maybe not have the chance to experiencing paradise like insha'Allah we will. We are all human beings, creations of Allah (swt). We REALLY need to start acting like it. Give everyone and anyone you come across, and Allah (swt) will deal with the rest. This is the promise.

:salam2:

Lulu

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

We are on different ends of the spectrum.

It is not that I am promoting any violence against women. If anything I have devoted many years of my life fighting for the rights of women. I found on that journey that it was like Dorothy right here at home in Islam.

And maybe I have a romantic notion of the Warriors in Afghanistan. As there is no such thing as a knight in shinning armor. Ten years and the US is in the epic fail mode of the war.

In reading I have discovered they are young. I have discovered they are open. They admit when they do something and admit when they do not. That is better than most. They tell you who they are.

I have not seen other groups who qualify so readily to be warriors.

And, sister, I must be firm with you. There was nothing that you provided that has changed my mind. You, and I must reiterate, never provided proof that it was the Taliban who did this. You did not seek knowledge. You remained with the status quo. You presented side issues which did not solidify the case.

As you sided with the majority that the Taliban are savages when it comes to women I questioned domestic violence in the US as being the same. Your response to that was that men get jailed and counseling; the Taliban do not.
In reality in the US most domestic violence including rape and murder are unreported. Why do you think police wait in hospital emergency rooms and the nurses urge women to turn in the man that has beaten them to a pulp.
Women do not turn in their husbands or boyfriends who beat them. It never reaches the courts. Trust me sister, this is no lie. Women are the target of violence in this country and they have little recourse. A woman who turns her husband to the legal system understands that she has to live with that man. Sister, you do not turn in the man who shares your bed to the police.

I feel for your friend. However, I asked and you did not respond as to the nature of the diplomatic assignment she was on and who take responsibility for it.

You alluded to something about the Republican party...the Democrats are no better..the only man with sense in the US at this point is a Republican that the Republicans are afraid to nominate.

I am not understanding the source of your misguided anger. You ask where are the Muslims who are telling the truth..well sister for starters right here on TTI. There have been several posts with serious answers.

As to the stoning itself...as I have always written..Allah has told that there be four witnesses. The burden sister of being a witness to adultery is enormous. It means one has to be in the room; that three other people have been in the room. That is what each soul must carry to death and to the day when they will be questioned.

I pray you understand what I am trying to convey.

Sister Lulu...Sister Precious Star and I love each other. I admire and respect her opinion. I truly love her. And it is important for us to be able to communicate..she and I represent thoughts in Islam. You know..we be strong Believers.

 

[Precious Star]

Assalaam walaikum,

We are on different ends of the spectrum.

It is not that I am promoting any violence against women. If anything I have devoted many years of my life fighting for the rights of women. I found on that journey that it was like Dorothy right here at home in Islam.

And maybe I have a romantic notion of the Warriors in Afghanistan. As there is no such thing as a knight in shinning armor. Ten years and the US is in the epic fail mode of the war.

In reading I have discovered they are young. I have discovered they are open. They admit when they do something and admit when they do not. That is better than most. They tell you who they are.

I have not seen other groups who qualify so readily to be warriors.

And, sister, I must be firm with you. There was nothing that you provided that has changed my mind. You, and I must reiterate, never provided proof that it was the Taliban who did this. You did not seek knowledge. You remained with the status quo. You presented side issues which did not solidify the case.

As you sided with the majority that the Taliban are savages when it comes to women I questioned domestic violence in the US as being the same. Your response to that was that men get jailed and counseling; the Taliban do not.
In reality in the US most domestic violence including rape and murder are unreported. Why do you think police wait in hospital emergency rooms and the nurses urge women to turn in the man that has beaten them to a pulp.
Women do not turn in their husbands or boyfriends who beat them. It never reaches the courts. Trust me sister, this is no lie. Women are the target of violence in this country and they have little recourse. A woman who turns her husband to the legal system understands that she has to live with that man. Sister, you do not turn in the man who shares your bed to the police.

I feel for your friend. However, I asked and you did not respond as to the nature of the diplomatic assignment she was on and who take responsibility for it.

You alluded to something about the Republican party...the Democrats are no better..the only man with sense in the US at this point is a Republican that the Republicans are afraid to nominate.

I am not understanding the source of your misguided anger. You ask where are the Muslims who are telling the truth..well sister for starters right here on TTI. There have been several posts with serious answers.

As to the stoning itself...as I have always written..Allah has told that there be four witnesses. The burden sister of being a witness to adultery is enormous. It means one has to be in the room; that three other people have been in the room. That is what each soul must carry to death and to the day when they will be questioned.

I pray you understand what I am trying to convey.

Sister Lulu...Sister Precious Star and I love each other. I admire and respect her opinion. I truly love her. And it is important for us to be able to communicate..she and I represent thoughts in Islam. You know..we be strong Believers.

Oh Aapa.

I don't expect to change your mind. And please don't expect to change mine.
That is not the purpose of these posts.

We are talking about geo-politics. No I'm not going to tellyou about the nature of this girl's diplomatic mission because I neither know the details nor do I think it is particularly relevant. Look up the word diplomatic. You know what country I am from and what role that country has played in afghanistan; do you think I'm really going to go so far as to expose that on a public forum like this?

I want the muslims around the world to take a firm, hard stand against all acts of violence in muslim countries, including the SUSPICION of violence. I am advocating for the search for truth, investigations into allegations of injustice, NOT "lets close our eyes until someone hands us proof beyond a reasonable doubt." What will be accomplished by the latter attitude. For some reason, you and others on this forum feel very affronted by the suggestion that we should be pursuing truth, whatever that truth is. We can't afford to do otherwise.

But more importantly, I will not stand for accusations about supporting "the kufr". If someone wants to disagree with my views, that is fine. We are all adults on this forum and we should be able to disagree in an adult fashion. But I will not agree that anyone has the right to go so far as to assert who is and is not supporting disbelief. That, my dear Aapa, is a sin.

 

[septithol]

It's a shame Muslim brothers and sisters are falling for it. If the Taliban were really as oppresive as you make them to be, then they wouldn't have the support from the Afghani people.

Check your premises. The Nazis had the support of most of the German people.

 

[septithol]

In reality in the US most domestic violence including rape and murder are unreported. Why do you think police wait in hospital emergency rooms and the nurses urge women to turn in the man that has beaten them to a pulp.
Women do not turn in their husbands or boyfriends who beat them. It never reaches the courts. Trust me sister, this is no lie. Women are the target of violence in this country and they have little recourse. A woman who turns her husband to the legal system understands that she has to live with that man. Sister, you do not turn in the man who shares your bed to the police.

Aapa, I don't know who these women are, but if I had a boyfriend and he beat me, I would first of all report it immediately to the police, and secondly, never see him again. If he came around pestering me after that, he would receive an unpleasant introduction to my shotgun.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Sister Precious Star..and I will respect your opinion. There is a thread with a book that is worth a good slow read. I have mentioned in every post since reading it. If you like I will post the link. It is very reasonable to read. The definitions it provides for us help us to define ourselves.

The nature of the diplomatic mission was relevant. You introduced it and I asked for details. And you could not provide proof as to who was behind the violence.

I am afraid I must take the stand that we can not be the mouthpieces for the kurf. I have no choice on that matter.

Septithol, I have been a therapist and social worker. I have worked with hundreds of abused women through the years. And it is not limited to the poor or uneducated. If you do not believe me ask the local hospital emergency room. Ask them why they keep the policewoman posted. They can not legally make you yield the name of the man.

There are few women like you. Many women are economically and emotionally dependent on their man. They take the beatings. That is the reason domestic violence is cyclical. It does not change.

The police do not do much. One night in jail at tops? Do you really think the police are going to spend money on domestic abuse? They leave the minute the social worker gets there. Been there done that.

The worst is when the woman is helpless as she sees her daughter being raped by her husband..and she does not support the daughter...

Yes, these women are everywhere. They are all colors and ages and educational backgrounds.

 

[septithol]

Aapa: I did not disbelieve you. I'm quite certain that a lot of women do act in the way you describe. I just think it's a very foolish way to act. I wouldn't put up with a man *insulting* me much less beating me. As all my ex-boyfriends found out. I told them that the FIRST time they *insulted* me, would be the LAST time they ever saw me. They apparently didn't believe me, because sooner or later, they chose to insult me, then were upset when, in fact, they never saw me again.

These women need to buy a gun to protect themselves.

As for their being very few women like me... you are actually quite correct in that regard. I have an INTP type personality. That's from this thing called the 'Briggs-Meyer' personality test, which sorts people into 1 of 16 different personality types.

Maybe about 1 out of 100 of all men have an INTP personality. But only about 1 out of 10,000 women have an INTP personality type. What's actually even odder, is to be a female INTP and to NOT be a lesbian, (which I am not, I like the men), because it's actually a decidedly masculine personality type (albeit a highly eccentric one).

In 'defense' (not that they deserve it) of my ex-boyfriends, given the rarity of INTP women, they probably never met one before, therefore did not take me seriously when I said that if they insulted me, they would never see me again. But it's one of the numerous peculiarities of INTP's (both men and women) that if they feel too highly insulted in a relationship, they will immediately and permanently leave the relationship. They do NOT come crawling back the next day or in a few weeks, or ever, the way most other people do.

My personality type, is probably also why I wouldn't be happy with the segregation of the sexes as practiced in Islam. The other women posters here have told me that they actually enjoy being only with women, and able to talk and laugh with them, without worrying about men being around. And I do, in fact, believe that they probably DO enjoy it.

It's also fairly good odds, that the other women here aren't INTP's (since only 1 in 10,000 women has that personality type). But an INTP (male of female) most emphatically does not enjoy small talk on trivial subjects. Sitting around and gossipping with other women, or family gatherings, are sheer torture, for an INTP.

 

[Sakeena]

how old was the daughter and why on earth would they kill her???? SubhanAllah!

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Septithol, these women exist and can not see themselves out of the circumstances due to lack of faith.
We have a thread on the abbreviated version of the Myers-Briggs on TTI. The last time I took it I was an INFP ( a big heart).
Now, I will sit with women all day long, but, I try to avoid gossip as it is a form of back-biting. I find spending time with women can be very instructive and at times playful.

Sister Sakeena..I am glad you asked that question.

Here we are on a Muslim website. We are informed that a woman and a child were stoned to death. I believe it was a woman and her fifteen year old daughter.
We are told that a group of Muslim people using Sharia law determined that the woman and girl were guilty of behavior when judged by Muslim law. These people concluded that they must apply the strictest provision of that law to protect the group. And they followed the course.
The name ascribed to these people was attached to a group of Believers who have been deemed to be unworthy by the propaganda machine.

Some felt this was violent and barbaric. It was automatically understood to be a crime against women. And opinions without benefit of Quran and Hadeeth were written.

And please read this slowly and carefully. I am not advocating stoning. And please read this slowly...who are we to judge a group of Muslims who follow the Sharia to the depth and breath and width of it to cast such judgment upon them.

How can we speculate on the decision of a group of Muslims who followed the Law to its strictest interpretation.

This is not a geo-political discussion.

The brother who is the executioner in Saudi Arabia granted an interview. He is a proud and believing man. He is honored to carry out his task.

And if a person bears false witness sister..think of what we have been warned about..the Angels of Allah aim to please Allah..they will with pleasure dole of punishment eternally...

on that note it is time for me to make salat.