Discussion in 'New and Current Affairs' started by MeGladder, Jul 6, 2012.
hasbouna ellah wa niama el wakil
قال تعالى : ( ولن ترضى عنك اليهود ولا النصارى
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
أتمنى لها أن ترحل من هذا البلاد الذي أهينت فيه إلى بلاد مسلم
I understand what you're trying to say sister. However, your suggestions are not well received because of the way you say things from the start.
If you're trying to advice sisters, it's better to do it in a way which is acceptable. But first blaming the victim and then insisting that it's their fault will not do anything but make you come across as insensitive, and a know-it-all. Whatever you're trying to say after that, whether it is good or not will not be taken seriously. If you're giving da'wah, never start your da'wah by being so direct and harsh with the person. You're only going to chase away the person. This is exactly what is happening with your comments regarding this issue. Even though your intention might be good but your approach needs some improvement.
Forgive me if I've offended you in any way. Perhaps I did get a little emotional I just felt so sad for the sister that was attacked.
May Allah help and protect our dear sister amin:tti_sister:
This wallahi made me so sad. How on earth could they treat the poor sister like that?
Where is the humanity? Where is the common sense? And why do they hate the niqab so much!?
They are worse than animals!
Or do you think that most of them hear or reason? They are not except like livestock. Rather, they are [even] more astray in [their] way.(25;44)
You said what it was not, 'it was not right' and to call it a sin is vague. It was a brutal act of oppression and in the past, treating a Muslim woman in this way was nothing less than an act of war - just for the record.
Thankyou Aapa, I know what happens, I know they create their own laws. Doesn't mean I point fingers at the Muslimah in question though.
It isn't haraam for a women to leave her home on her own within a given distance, she hasn't followed her deen 'halfway' as you were trying to say earlier, that is an accusation worthy of Bani Isra'eel, it's heavy.
Are you trying to understand why some Muslim women choose to cover their faces? Or are you asking about the permissablity of a woman leaving her home on her own? Even if she had a couple of sisters with her, or even a mahram or her husband, you cannot claim that the outcome would have been different at all. At what point will you stop this 'serves them right' attitude?
What lesson are you trying to teach these young sisters? I can only infer from your statements thus far that you mean they should remove their niqaabs in light of the new law, or never leave their homes again? Set this straight if it's wrong.
Nobody here expects sympathy from the kuffar, you're mistaken.
Sniffing nothing, you're mistaken if you think we expected sympathy and aid from the people who made the law!
Ofcourse they would, why not?
All I am saying is we have to be smarter. I have written before that the racist backwards kufr are going to target Muslim women. That is why they attack women. Simple reason why. Muslim women bear Muslim children. I am surprised the racist backward fools have not started a sterilization program for Muslim women.
I do not think that anyone would want sympathy from the racist backward fools, however, we have to teach our sisters to use precaution. They instilled these laws and will keep enforcing them. If a sister is going to blatantly disobey the laws the enforcers are not going to be kind.
We have to be aware this is the least they do to women. The sisters in niqqab have to understand this is the beginning. The sister who was brutalized has become the poster child. I am suggesting that the sisters be fully aware of the consequences of their decisions. Wear hijab until the storm settles. The scholars are equally divided between the two. Take the easy path.
The women need to work with advocacy groups. If they do this to one woman it may happen to all women. They sisters need to make this an issue of women and not just Muslim women.
This is an issue specifically related to Islaam and Muslim women. On the one hand what you are saying is wise, we do need to be aware of the consequences of our decisions, but on the other hand I find your comments strangely naive, they're not brutalising women in short skirts and low cut tops, they're targetting the dress of Muslim women.
In fact they have pretty much reached the limits of their oppressive capacity when it comes to their own women in dictating what they should and should not wear, now they're starting on Muslim women specifically since Muslim women weren't enslaved by their propaganda/mission.
As for removing niqaab - thankyou for finally clarifying your point here.
We can not compare the kufr woman to us. That is unfair. The fact that the kufr woman is semi-dressed is the victory of the kufr. I have written on length on that. The woman is reduced to a sexual object on display.
It is up to Muslim women to be gentler with the kufr women. Is it not written that there will come a time when a man will take whichever woman he wants from the street..here we are.
The dress of a Muslim woman is defiance of capitalism and Zionism. At least the Commies didn't reduce women to sex slaves.
As Salam walaykum.
Surely the dress of a Muslim woman is an acceptance of the laws of Allah Swt and the Sunnah of his beloved messenger Muhammad (PBUH) not capitalism or Zionism?.
But, when they make laws and are willing to go the extra mile to enforce those laws as in the case of this young sister we have to think and refer to the literature in hadith and Quran. In my limited knowledge, as there is consensus that hijab is acceptable to please Allah, it is sufficient to wear. Thus, as usual Allah subhana wa taala has provided a way for His Believing women to cover and the laws of the kufr can not touch them.
The trouble with Islam is that it is not an individaulist faith. I can not go off into deep meditation and have out of body experiences and be happy-happy. I am part of a family. What I do does impact and effect others. Islam makes us a collective. We are encouraged to be part of a whole. We have to practice the best of manners and at all times; sometimes that includes having to tolerate the dumb kufr laws.
I hate seat belts. The law did not come into effect until many years after I got my license. The statistics indicate that they do not make a difference. Another way to make money. However, we have to wear one. If not you may lose your license. Same issue here. If the law is passed until you can get a referendum to revise the law you have to put up with it.
The Zionists want women to be slaves. Check out the biography of Natalie Portman. A woman is a sex slave. She has to show her wares as she is in competition with males. A man is able to be bisexual. A wife is there to produce children. The rest of the world is eye candy for the taking.
A Muslim woman's dress is a thorn in the rose. She is a visual reminder that there is something else out there.
Brother, they have killed messengers of Allah. Is not a Muslim woman's dress almost a jihad?
To you, niqaab isn't necessary and those sisters who do it are taking this unnecessary measure which Allaah has not made an obligation, so by this logic, you are saying they have only themselves to blame if they are hurt through wearing it.
This is the reality of what you're saying, its a very arrogant way of seeing your own choice to not wear a niqaab, you see your decision as more superior to that of the women who do wear the niqaab, that's why you think they're sufferring and you're not.
Why do you think the next law wont be banning hijaab, what makes you so sure of that? Where would that leave your statements?
Basically you're saying they are individualistic and take their faith to a level that is impractical for everyday life, right Aapa? This is why you haven't faulted the law that was made not evenonce. You said what they did to her was a 'sin' but you haven't said the law itself was oppressive or wrong.
Our stances on this story have not arisen through lack of comprehension of how the law works, please stop repeating the same explanation, we understand, but our opinions aren't changing.
What I am saying is very simply if there is a law that makes it impossible for you to wear niqqab just wear hijab.
Sister, the law is in the land of the kufr. It is their law. By definition the law of the kufr is as I wrote backwards and racist. But, that is what it is meant to be.
Sister, I do not see hijab being superior. I am stating that Believing women can still cover in the racist backward territory.
You are reading too much into this.
And yes, Islam is not individualistic. A woman has to listen to her husband does she not or her father? Is not the backbone of Islam family? We are to keep on the middle path sister.
Yes, the law is wrong. But it is not our law. The sister chooses to live there. But as I have written before, the Muslims need to repeal the law. Is the law oppressive in their land? I do not know, sister. It is their land. It is their law. We may not like it but we have to respect their laws in their lands.
Or the Muslims need to help enact legislature to protect hijab. They need to be proactive.
Actually Aapa this was only made clear in answer to one of my posts, this wasn't the theme of your initial posts at all:
So I was reading too much into this? No I don't think so, I think I now understand why you have said some of the things you have said here.
Why can we not be objective about ourselves. Why can we not look at Muslims and say slow down. Islam gives us choices. The sister lives in a land where niqqab is outlawed. It is not the end of the world. She broke the law of the land. Hello. ( fundamental rules for wearing niqqab..you do not break laws). What is wrong with stating the facts. The woman broke the law.
Now...think of this sister..piety is not found in clothing. Niqqab is not initself piety.
You have justified your answer and are trying to vilify me.
I did not break a law.
No matter what you say the sister broke the law and then she fought with a female police officer. That is wrong from the get go. That is all I am saying. If you are going to wear a niqqab do not dishonor Islam by breaking laws when you are given alternatives such as hijab.
Wa-alaykum assalam Aapa,
In the most basic sense, I was trying to understand how someone can turn on the victim in such circumstances especially when the victim is another Muslim, clearly you didn't like that.
As for the rest, you are right that there is a difference of opinion on this and you are saying she should remove her niqaab and opt for a hijaab based on what you follow; however I cannot imagine a sister would have broken the law and suffered to this extent had she believed covering her face was not an obligation in Islam. So your solution is fine for those who share your opinion and wear the niqaab out of the belief that it is sunnah/mustahab, but most likely this is not the case for the sister in question.
In asserting something for which there is ikhtilaaf, you cannot say she is going halfway with her deen or dishonouring Islam when she is following a valid opinion, if she believes it is an obligation then that is the beginning and the end of it, she has to do it, do you see how wrong your comments come accross? It isn't allowed for you to talk down on someone who follows a different but valid opinion in such a supercillious way as you have done in this thread, not you or any of us have that right in any context.
And please lets stick to the point, I'm not entering a discussion on what piety is and it being found in niqaab or not, all of that is completely besides the point here.
I am not of an opinion. I am going by the consenus of the scholars.
The woman is wrong. It is that simple. She has made her decision to break a law harder on the entire population. Furhtermore, she did not act properly. She fought with the arresting officals. That in any book is stupid. It complicates matters. In her passion she forgot the consequences that her behavior has for others. She has made it very difficult for Muslim women in the land.
She allowed herself to be victamized. She did not think it would happen to her. She did not think.
We can not blame everyone all the time. I do not have time for her woes. She insulted Believing women. As I wrote before did she think the police were going to hand her a boquet of roses?
The police are serious. Once detained common sense tells you not to fight back. Common sense dictates that you avoid all interaction with the police and remain silent.
All I am saying is think a little before you put yourself in a position that is detrimental to the masses. If you want to battle for Islam as a woman there are many other ways. This was ill-advised.
Now, everyone can rant and cry and bemoan that she was victimized. She allowed it. She used poor judgement.
And it is a fundamental question of piety. Is that not what niqqab represents? That is the essence. Or why even wear it?
Come on now, Sister, let's be real.
I do not expect you to agree with my stance but I am 100% correct. It is a good thing for us to be able to have some constructive criticism about our behaviors as well.
You call a spade a spade. She was wrong. The laws of Islam are to protect women.
I do know this is getting pointless.
If the Muslim women want to change the law then they will have to have a day of protest. Everyone will have to walk down the streets in protest in veil. But, once again that is not really what Islam teaches us is it.
Just like I said before, you didn't like this and claimed I was reading too much into it, but you confirm time and again it is exactly the case:
And as for this:
I would say such women should really make hijrah to a land where they can practise without hindrance. I know this isn't easy and perhaps even idealistic but even so, it is a solution, even if the country they are leaving happens to be where they originated from.
I can say that without feeling the need to demean them or make trivial their decisions to cover their faces, or shocklingly begin claiming they have dishonoured and insulted Muslim women (what on earth ..?), and all rest of the contents of your attack on niqabi women, know that this is your lone perception.
You know it is written that women are emotional. Your thoughts are emotional. You are stuck. I am not attacking anyone. I am simply stating there is an answer to the dilemma for women who choose to live in those countries.
And I stand by what I say. When you wear niqqab or hijab you have to live up to the responsibility of that.
Let us be objective. The sister was in the wrong to break a law.
My perception may be solitary but it is not wrong. I am still 100% correct.
Not even 1% correct. There's no excuse for hate crimes.
Sooo, Aapa, whats for dinner? Delivery again? Apparently.
Separate names with a comma.