13 Pak soldiers 10 tribes men killed in US air strike

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al-fajr

...ism..schism
Staff member
< 1/9?

You could only verify one of them as making some form of takfiri statement and yet you were so quick to lable all nine with the same brush, despite the fact you had absolutely no idea who one of them was and had never even heard of him.

:rolleyes: I guess I just wont take much of what you post very seriously henceforth.

Wasalam ~
 

Salem9022

Junior Member
< 1/9?

You could only verify one of them as making some form of takfiri statement and yet you were so quick to lable all nine with the same brush, despite the fact you had absolutely no idea who one of them was and had never even heard of him.

:rolleyes: I guess I just wont take much of what you post very seriously henceforth.

Wasalam ~

1 out of 9 seems reasonable to me:D
 

Abdul Hasib

Student of Knowledge
Mashallah what a freidnly fight. But hey, I'm siding with my big siter-Sister Isra, LoL.



As for the Takfir. Usama said that "It is clear that Kufr (disbelief) is taking you out of the fold of Islam" what does Kufr mean? It means when you are not raelly a KAfir, but a Munafiq, someone who is on the verge of being a Kafir. And that's reasonable too. Munafiws who help kill thier brothers in Islam do wickedness, and killing your brother in Islam, AND SIDING WITH THE ENEMY IS CLEAR PROOF OF KUFR.

And Ameer Khattab was a Mujahid who fought with At Thaliban in the SOviert war in 1970 when he was 17, and after some years he went to Chechen, than by seeing the Eman if the Muslism there made him start fighting Jihad and fighting alongside the Chechany Mujahid, and after some years, he lead many campaigns, trained new Mujahid soldeirs, and led many operations against the KRemlin Mushriks. A great man, the lion of the Mountains, Samir Abdulla Khattab (RAhmatullah Alyh), Ash Shaheed Inshallah.

Assalamu Alykum brother. Hope I told ya alot.

_3962_khattab-24-11-2001.jpg
 

Shahzad

Junior Member
since Brother salem is calling those takfiris, i wonder if he has read some misleading posts as there are many false posts regarding jihad and islam on internet and also there are many false muftis . Who knows.. I have heard good words abt khattab.

I think since we dont do any thing for islam. We spend 1 penny and before that, we thinkg 10000 times. I think we shud keep our mouth shut against those brave persons
 

abu turaab

Junior Member
:salam2: brothers,brothers,brothers!!..we muslim can never establish our secured existance wherever we live in this world until we stop compromising our deen for any bit of this duniya...and i mean it covering the whole senerio!!..either it is (so-called)muslims doing shirk on shrines or doing bid'ah,doing injustice,zulm...it's all bcz we have compromised the deen with its principles for small gains of this duniya!..in one way or the other.we don't enjoin Haq anymore.we speek haq only upto that limit beyond which ourselves would have to encounter conflicts and termoils usualy created by our own people.we don't want to consume ourselves for the sake of haq which is the real essence of the deen!!..why we do so??....very simple answer!!..we want to be salvated with-out getting stained and screwed in this world....had the crieteion ever set so!!...the sahabas(R.A.)and the Prophet(S.A.W.) would never had beared so much termoil for salvation!!..
ALLAH says(translation)more or less".....so whosoever had deviated..and used to prefer(the gains of)duniya for Aakhira...so hell is the abode for such a person"
May Allah Guide us all to His deen with-out any ambiguity in our hearts and give us courage to stand-up to consume our lives for His deen...so that we save us from the torments of hereafter...Ameen!! (excuse me for gramatical mistakes...i hope i've put the message through)
:wasalam:
 

mfarooq-khan

New Member
Asalam-W-Alaikum Brothers and Sisters,

Salem9022 you have aterlay disappointed me, I dont know to whom u call muslims and what should be their characterstics, no mujahid is a muslim in your view, infact you are speaking the language of the people with whom u live,

You call these people kafir ( and yet you cant not produce a single proof about their kufar), yet you pass ruling (fatwa) on them, incase you get wrong then you should realy care about your own eman. Because passsing a fatwa of kufar on a momin, himself becomes kafir.

I think either you are not amongts the people who live and die for the will of Allah (SWT) or YOu are really fooled by the media campaign which is run by the (kufar),

You even declared (dewbandies kafir), so tell me what is your relgon and beliefs and how are they different from the dewbandies, and also tell all of us the tafkir of dewbandies,

As i Said in my early post, Islam was the religon of stranders and it is also now the religon of strangers, any one who fights in the way of allah is a terrorist and kafir (in your view),

O-Allah save us from the fitna of such People,(Amin)

Jihad is our way, we fight for the will of Allah (SWT) and not for ur will or ur alie will nor for the will of people whom u call "momin".

Inshallah we will succeed with the blessing of Allah.

If you could provide any proof of tafkir of Taliban, (I will not support them) rather i would stand with you, and fight against them. but you will never be able to do that.
 

Salem9022

Junior Member
since Brother salem is calling those takfiris, i wonder if he has read some misleading posts as there are many false posts regarding jihad and islam on internet and also there are many false muftis . Who knows.. I have heard good words abt khattab.

I think since we dont do any thing for islam. We spend 1 penny and before that, we thinkg 10000 times. I think we shud keep our mouth shut against those brave persons



I really don't know why you guys are dragging the Issue, I posted the link where it will give you all these Information about these Khawaarij.


mfarooq-khan I NEVER CALLED ANYONE FROM THIS IS LIST A KAFFIR. I didn't even call Bin Laden a Kaffir. I called him a Takfiri and a Khawaarij because this is the what the scholars have concluded, and My "Mufti" are those that are from Islamic University in Medina and from Umm Qura in Mekkah.

And I never declared Deobandies Kaffir, So I don't even know why you are accusing me of Saying it, please read my previous posts, and direct yourself to the website which I posted.

Also Abdul Hasib, how is Ameer Khattab going to help me in my deen, How is he going to help me learn about my deen? I really don't know why you are obsessed by this person. How is this person going to help non-muslims enter Islam? Did this Person fight for Land or did this Person fight for La illaha ilal Lah(None has the right to be worhipped except Allah)?

Also you said "SIDING WITH THE ENEMY IS CLEAR PROOF OF KUFR." I agree but So you are Indicating to me that King Abdullah is a Kaffir as well like Bin Laden said? Do you know that Saddam Hussien was a Baathist? A Kaffir who poisend the Muslims in Iraq with this religion of Marxism, and wanted to spread this religion throught the arabian pinninsula. He wanted to destroy Islam from the inside just like the shi3a. And So just like how Bush is an Enemy to Islam so Was Saddam until, he was hanged and said his Shahadah : ),

And as for King Abdullah Siding with the Enemy, then that is a lie. There are no Soldiers in Saudi Arabia and No one in Saudi Arabia is siding with the Enemy whether it be Baathist or American Soldiers.

And please Don't drag the discussion any further, because I'm tired of useless talk none of us should speak unless you have a Fatawah that you can Post to back up what you are saying, and Abdul Hasib and mfarooq-khan I would love to know which "mufti" or "scholar" you consider to be on the right path and you take from?:hearts:

As-Salaam 3laikum Wa Ra7matullahi Wa Barakatu
 

MOSABJA

Junior Member
I too dont want to drag this issue.Lets leave it.I just said that before that fatwaas on usama Bin ladin,Zawahiri,Baitullah mehsud,nek Mohammad

ARE BASED IN INFORMATION ABOUT THEM AVAILABLE ON THEM ON MEDIA.

if that very information is not true then how can the fatwa be????

Scholars gave their Fatwaa based on Bin ladin who is ONLY ALLEGED to be involved in 9/11.If he is involved then he is a KHWARIJI.

If he is not involved then SCHOLARS ARE WRONG.

In fact some of these scholars themselves violate a principle of QURAN

"Dont believe in rumours Unless you verify that"

1) Involvement of Bin ladin in 9/11 is only an UNPROVEN RUMOR.

His confession video tapes have already been proven to be FAKE.
9/11 is proven to be an inside job.YOu can see Dr Zakir Naik's take on that.
taliban have said dozens of time that Bin Ladin has been dead since 2001.

Scholars should have made fatwa before VERIFYING A God Damn Unproven,False MYTH that Few arabs with turbans sitting in caves brought down Twin towers.Yvonne ridley said that Alqaeda doesnt exist.

If those scholars Branding Bin ladin as Khwariji can give a Single proof that He was involved in 9/11 or his confession tapes were real .Then we ll recognize their fatwaas.Otherwise they are not Prophets that every word coming out of their Mouth is hadiith


Now you brand Khattab,Omar al Baghdadi,nek Mohammad,Mullah Omar as kaffirs,

then who the hell is doing Jihad in this world.

these kinds of things are given up by people who consider US aggression against

1)Afghanistan.
2)Iraq

as LEGITIMATE
 

al-fajr

...ism..schism
Staff member
And please Don't drag the discussion any further, because I'm tired of useless talk none of us should speak unless you have a Fatawah that you can Post to back up what you are saying, and Abdul Hasib and mfarooq-khan I would love to know which "mufti" or "scholar" you consider to be on the right path and you take from?:hearts:
If you post utter rubbish then you expect people to not disagree with you then im afraid youre living in your own make believe utopia.

And as for King Abdullah Siding with the Enemy, then that is a lie. There are no Soldiers in Saudi Arabia and No one in Saudi Arabia is siding with the Enemy whether it be Baathist or American Soldiers.
I dont think blaming the rulers has any use and doesnt further our cause but defending them is another level and violates Al Walaa wal Baraa.

Also you said "SIDING WITH THE ENEMY IS CLEAR PROOF OF KUFR." I agree but So you are Indicating to me that King Abdullah is a Kaffir as well like Bin Laden said? Do you know that Saddam Hussien was a Baathist? A Kaffir who poisend the Muslims in Iraq with this religion of Marxism, and wanted to spread this religion throught the arabian pinninsula. He wanted to destroy Islam from the inside just like the shi3a. And So just like how Bush is an Enemy to Islam so Was Saddam until, he was hanged and said his Shahadah : ),
who defended saddam? :confused: why have you brought him in to the discussion ...? youre so non-sequitor.

Also Abdul Hasib, how is Ameer Khattab going to help me in my deen, How is he going to help me learn about my deen? I really don't know why you are obsessed by this person. How is this person going to help non-muslims enter Islam? Did this Person fight for Land or did this Person fight for La illaha ilal Lah(None has the right to be worhipped except Allah)
Im amazed. You have never heard of this person as you said so yourself, you first called him a takfiri and now you question his intentions - :astag: Abdul Hasib isnt obsessed with anyone, the only person thats obsessed with anything here is you and thats with demonising other muslims (it seems). Abdul Hasib only gave you a bit of background because you said you didnt know anything, you should thank him.

Only Allah (s) holds the right to question what in the hearts of people, certainly not you.

Im sure some mod will come along and close this thread now ...can almost see them buzzing with frusteration in the mod forum :rolleyes:
 

Salem9022

Junior Member
lol I hope they don't, these are healthy discussions to see where people are. As for Ameer Khattab, wallah I never heard of him before, and I said if he was part of the Al-Queda Organization then yes he is a Takfiri. Because the Organization is Based upon that.

isra Also can you tell me whom do you consider to be scholars? because It seems like you are saying things complete contradict what the Ullema already have concluded about these people.

MOSABJA:

"Scholars gave their Fatwaa based on Bin ladin who is ONLY ALLEGED to be involved in 9/11.If he is involved then he is a KHWARIJI.

If he is not involved then SCHOLARS ARE WRONG.

In fact some of these scholars themselves violate a principle of QURAN"

First you are assuming that the scholars only started to talk about him when 9-11 happened. Matter of Fact Shiekh Bin Baaz Met with Bin Laden to discuss his beliefs, around 15 years ago and Shiekh Bin Baaz said he was a Takfiri, that is the reason why Bin Laden was Banned from coming to Saudi Arabia. Also all of these Scholars Already concluded this along time ago, long before 9-11 happened. 9-11 Has noting to do with this. He was a well known Takfiri/Khawaarij Long before 9-11 happened.

And are you Accusing Shiekh Bin Baaz of Violating the Principle of the Qur'an?

And you can you tell me who do you consider to be from amoung the Ullema of our time? Because you are accusing of them things which are totally false.
 

Shahzad

Junior Member
Well, with all due respect shaikh bin baaz is not the authority in any thing. He has mislead saudi Arabia in the matters of moon sighting ajnd we all know the saudi arab has perpetual islamic calender which is not possible. Scholars of pakistan tried to discussed with him abt this issue but he didnt accept.

So Brother Salem, i think u shud read more in order to get broader view rather than insisting on khwarji khwarji and saying words abt Khattab , the martyre.

Would u like to give a brief into abt ur self? who u r, wat u do and where u live?
 

sha587

Shahid abdullah
Nothing to worry game is starting now in Pakistan. We did not realize the true problem, true threat.

Real threat was America not Taliban. Now we are facing the aftermaths.

This is just start. As Bush was a white president so he do not need to prove himself a "True" American but i am afraid that is not the case with OBAMA. There are two problems with him,

1. He is first black president of America.
2. He is somehow connected to Muslim

So, he need to prove his "faithfulness" to those people running America.
شاہ سے زیادھ شاھ کا وفادار

Only internal pressure could keep him away from Pakistan or some extraordinary change in world politics that we Muslims always wait but it never comes.
 

sha587

Shahid abdullah
Brother Salem i can understand your problem as i am Pakistani so dont worry about any other persons and dont waste your words for any "kaffirs".
 

Salem9022

Junior Member
Oh Sure I should go and see what the Pakistani "Scholars" have to say when they freely allow grave worshipping and Innovation in their country and don't speak about it and even practise Innovation amoung themselves and many whom themselves are Ignorant of many Issues of the Deen. I should really do that Great Idea.:rolleyes:
 

Shahzad

Junior Member
i dont know why some ppl have the disease of associating grave worships and innovations wid each and every pakistani? Why do they think that all pakistanis will go to hell?

Sha87: such commments have lead ummah into deep trouble.
 

sha587

Shahid abdullah
Actually no offense akhi salem but whenever i saw you in a post i expect some kaffire or 72 sects and i am getting use to of it and if i dont see anything like this i became "worried".

Why do they think that all pakistanis will go to hell?

I do not think a single Muslim pakistani or not Pakistani will go to hell. The reason is simple I am not God those who thinks they are they should think about their behaviour. I am also Pakistani Akhi.
 

Salem9022

Junior Member
I didn't say they will go to Hell, noting I said mentioned hell. I said they tolerate Bidah and grave worshipping and other acts in their country and some practise this amoung themselves and you want me to take my deen from them. Thats all, Not every pakistani does that I'm pakistani myself remember and I know many Student of Knowledge who are Pakistans who don't do that. I didn't mean to generalize every pakistani sorry if it meant that way.
 

Shahzad

Junior Member
yeah u shud be sorry brother salem. That was pretty offensive. U shud read ur posts twice before pressing submit button.
 

sha587

Shahid abdullah
I didn't say they will go to Hell, noting I said mentioned hell. I said they tolerate Bidah and grave worshipping and other acts in their country and some practise this amoung themselves and you want me to take my deen from them. Thats all, Not every pakistani does that I'm pakistani myself remember and I know many Student of Knowledge who are Pakistans who don't do that. I didn't mean to generalize every pakistani sorry if it meant that way.

Now thats a good apology first time. Thanks

We should be sorry for our brothers died in Pakistan. I think we are not even worth. Do you remember during Iraq war one uk parliment member was presenting a bill to save some "precious lions" in in Iraq. Huh.....

خون مسلم کی ارزانی
 
If you post utter rubbish then you expect people to not disagree with you then im afraid youre living in your own make believe utopia.

I dont think blaming the rulers has any use and doesnt further our cause but defending them is another level and violates Al Walaa wal Baraa.

who defended saddam? :confused: why have you brought him in to the discussion ...? youre so non-sequitor.

Im amazed. You have never heard of this person as you said so yourself, you first called him a takfiri and now you question his intentions - :astag: Abdul Hasib isnt obsessed with anyone, the only person thats obsessed with anything here is you and thats with demonising other muslims (it seems). Abdul Hasib only gave you a bit of background because you said you didnt know anything, you should thank him.

Only Allah (s) holds the right to question what in the hearts of people, certainly not you.

Im sure some mod will come along and close this thread now ...can almost see them buzzing with frusteration in the mod forum :rolleyes:


wow u sure put up a good fight....:SMILY82::SMILY82:

back at it people while i read...makes my mind relax looking at convos like these....:SMILY82::SMILY82:
 
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