13 Pak soldiers 10 tribes men killed in US air strike
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And you are speaking why? You are acting as if you know anything of this Issue, all that you are doing is misqouting what I said, and twisting my words then trying to act smart about it. I have yet to read something worthy from what you have to say.
You accuse People in Saudi Arabia of having a Fatwah Machine, and now you trying to Accuse Shiekh Uthaymeen of things like this. Please don't speak and watch what you say, because of a Person your callibur who haven't slightest of clue what are conditions of Jihad or probably even Tawheed, you are going to say these things about a scholar, while you pretend to be one by accusing people like this. Fear Allah, and don't act Arrogant and Like a Jahil like your Leader Bin Laden. People in this forum have now known who you belong with.
Also I'm 22 and even stated this so many times, and I have a college degree with a Bachelors in Mathematics. Is there anything else you want to know and sound smart about? what does my background have anything to do this discussion?
You are quite a mixed up young man. All those comments above have nothing to do with my email. You are confusing me with other people on the forum. In another thread, you have called me ignorant. I leave this matter for Allah to decide. All I said about sheikh Uthaymeen was from reliable resources like this:
http://www.salafitalk.net/st/printthread.cfm?Forum=9&Topic=1149
Read the last sentences on the page:
... So and it is extremely clear from his words: Return from whence you came that it revolves around the earth and through its revolving the sunrise and sunset occur.
I still respect him as a scholar of Islam but I am not a blind follower of everything which he has to offer.
By the way, I know your fatwa sites better than you think.
Oh really? I was expecting something like 14 to 15. Puberty sometimes make people angry on everything and I thought, that was the reason. It is good that you have background in mathematics. Now you can apply your mathematical equations to prove the earth being stationary and make the soul of late Sheikh Uthaymeen really proud of you.
sorry brother salem if i offended you. But you are confronting with all other people. You should be patient. As i already in one of your post mention this fact if you are coming up with fatwas i also can come up with number of fatwas but this is no use if the other person is not deviating any basic islamic act than we need to be humble to talk to him. You have got good passion to speak truth but you should learn how to convince people. But you have good passion keep it up but in right way.
You only qouted One Line from that whole page to Proove Your point lol. As for My Background don't worry about, but Please don't talk about Shiekh Uthaymeen Raheema'ullah the way you did especially when he has passed away, Or else the Moderators will ban you. I'm speaking for your own Good, not for myself, but I would like to see you here so that Is what I'm asking you not to speaking Arrogantly or else you will be Banned. Barak Allahu Feek.
This is what It says, and I don't find anything wrong with the shiekh said maybe in a different percepective, He is speaking in Our Perspective on earth It seems this way since we are not in space but rather on Earth looking at the Sun.
And I don't know why would you bring this Particular Point up? I never said Shiekh Uthaymeen is Infallible. He is Human and He can make Mistakes, But can you tell why so many other Scholars in Saudi Arabia have Issued warnings about These Particular groups which you call "Mujahids".
Even Shiekh Al-Albani has talked against these Takfiris. Why did you only Bring Shiekh Uthaymeens Statement which has noting to do with the topic to prove try to Proove your Point? Let Me Guess they are Producing Fatwah Machine
thats the responce you are going to give.---------------------------------------------------------------
Fatwa Of Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Saalih al-Uthaimeen rahimahullaah
Ash-Shaykh Muhammad bin Saalih al-`Uthaymeen (rahimahullaah)
Question: Does the sun revolve around the earth?
Answer: It is apparent from the Islaamic evidences that they confirm that it is the sun which revolves around the earth, and by its revolving the alternation of night and day takes place on the surface of the earth. It is not for us to exceed the apparent meanings of these evidences without some evidence stronger than that, which permits us to explain them differently from their apparent meaning. Among the proofs that the sun revolves around the earth in a manner which causes the alternation of the night and day are the following:
1) Allaah, the Most High says, that when Ibraaheem (`alayhi as-Salaam), disputed with the one who argued with him concerning his Lord:
"Verily, Allah brings the sun form the east; then bring it you from the west."
[Soorah al-Baqarah 2:258]
2) He also tells us that Ibraaheem (`alayhi as-Salaam) said:
"When he saw the sun rising up, he said: 'This is my lord. This is greater.' But when it set, he said: 'O my people! I am indeed free from all that you join as partners (in worship with Allaah)."
[Soorah al-An`aam 6:78]
So He described the settings as an attribute of the sun and not that the earth set upon it, for if it was the earth which revolved, He would have said: but when (the earth) set upon it.
3) Allaah the Most High says:
"And you might have seen, the sun, when it rose, declining to the right from their Cave, and when it set, turning away from them to the left."
[Soorah al-Kahf 18:17]
He has described the declining and turning away as descriptions of the sun, and that is a proof that the movement was from the sun. If it was a description of the earth, He would have said: Their Cave declined from it. Likewise, describing the sun as rising and setting proves that it is the sun which revolves, even though the indication of the may be less than the indication in His Words: "declining" and "turning away from them."
4) Allaah, the Most High says:
"And He it is Who has created the night and the day, and the sun, and the moon, each in an orbit floating."
[Soorah al-Anbiyaaa' 21:33]
Ibn `Abbaas (radhiallaahu `anhu) said: "They revolve in an orbit, like the turning of a mill. This was widely reported from him.
5) Allaah, the Most High says:
"He brings the night as a cover over the day, seeking it rapidly."
[Soorah al-Ara'af 7:54]
He described the night as seeking the day, and the seeker rushes and overtakes, and it is well known that the night and the day follow the sun.
6) Allaah, the Most High says:
"He has created the heavens and the earth with truth. He makes the night to go in the day and makes the day to go in the night. And He has subjected the sun and the moon. Each running (on a fixed course) for an appointed term. Verily, He is the All-Mighty, the Oft-Forgiving."
[Soorah az-Zumar 39:5]
and His Words:
"He makes the night to go in the day" that is, it turns around it, as a turban is wrapped around, which proves the revolving of the night and the day around the earth. If it were the earth which revolved around them, He would have said: He causes the earth to revolve around the night and day.
And in His words:
"the sun and the moon, each running (on a fixed course)." It is clear from what precedes it that it is a proof that the sun and the moon move in a perceptible orbit, because subjecting something which moves to its movement is more apparent than subjecting something stationary which does not move.
7) Allaah, the Most High say:
"By the sun and its brightness. By the moon as it follows it (the sun)."
[Soorah ash-Shams 91:1-2]
And the meaning of: "follows it" is that 'it comes after it' and this is a proof of their moving and revolving around the earth, for if it were the earth which revolved around them, the moon would not be following the sun; rather it would sometimes be following it and sometimes it would be followed by it, because the sun is higher than it. And deduction from this verse requires study and reflection.
8) Allaah, the Most High say:
"And the sun runs o*n its fixed course for a term {appointed}. That is the Decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing. And the moon, We have measured for it mansions {to traverse} till it returns like the old dried date stalk. It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor does the night outstrip the day. They all float, each in an orbit."
[Soorah Ya-Seen 36:38-40]
So, attributing the movement to the sun and describing it as a Decree from the Almighty, Most Wise proves that it is a real movement with a far-reaching Decree, since the consequence of it is the alternation of the night and day and the seasons.
The measure of the moon's mansions (i.e., stations) is a proof that it traverses them, for if it was the earth which revolves , the measuring of the mansions would be for the earth's movement around the moon and not for the moon's movement around it.
And negating the sun's ability to overtake the moon, and the night's ability to outstrip the day are evidence of the rushing movement on the part of the sun and the moon, and the night and the day.
9) The Prophet (sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam) said to Aboo Tharr (radhiallaahu `anhu), when the sun had just set: "Do you know where it goes?" He said, "Allaah and His Messenger knows best." He (sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam) said: "Verily, it goes (i.e., travels) and it prostrates beneath the Throne and seeks permission to rise, and permission is granted to it. Then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but will not be permitted, but it will be ordered: Return from whence you came, and so it will rise in the West."
[Reported by al-Bukhaaree in the Book of the Beginning of Creation, in the Chapter: Description of the Sun and the Moon (#3199), and by Muslim in the Book of Faith, in the Chapter: Explanation of the Time when Faith will not be accepted (#159)].
So and it is extremely clear from his words: Return from whence you came that it revolves around the earth and through its revolving the sunrise and sunset occur.
10) It is clear from the many ahaadeeth which attribute rising, setting, and declining from its zenith to the sun, that it is the sun which does so and so and the earth.
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I seek refuge of Allah from being arrogant. I haven't said anything disrespectful about Sheikh Uthaymeen. In fact, I respect him because of being so true to his methodology (manhaj). Remaining true to that methodology and with all those ahadith, you could only come to that conclusion.
I find myself more in agreement with "Al-Kifayah fi 'Ilm al- Riwayah of al-Khatib al-Baghdadi", which is a well accepted source of hadith sciences. Read that book to find out the differences.
I find myself more in agreement with "Al-Kifayah fi 'Ilm al- Riwayah of al-Khatib al-Baghdadi", which is a well accepted source of hadith sciences. Read that book to find out the differences.
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bro salem im looking for the thread where a person said they beleived in only two categories of Tawhid- please can u show me the thread
brother Salem,
Since you are talking with too many people, I understand that you keep mixing it up. I never used the word fatwa machine, so your comment about that must be meant for somebody else.
The problem is not so easily solved by putting your frame of reference on earth. Using the same logic if you put your frame of reference on moon or sun, you can say moon is stationary. Now I didn't want to mention yet another fatwa but Ibn Baaz has declared takfir of people who believe sun is stationary ( and I agree with this fatwa). Yet I dare say "If my frame of reference is on sun, sun is stationary". Using that logic you can easily declare stationary anything you want.
Since you recognize the fallibility of Sheikh Uthaymeen ( or any other scholar for that matter ), you should also learn to hear some difference of opinion.
In the end I appologize if my words hurt you. I would appreciate if would also appologize to other brothers and sisters (not to me) for your hurting comments. Barakallahu feek.
Since you are talking with too many people, I understand that you keep mixing it up. I never used the word fatwa machine, so your comment about that must be meant for somebody else.
The problem is not so easily solved by putting your frame of reference on earth. Using the same logic if you put your frame of reference on moon or sun, you can say moon is stationary. Now I didn't want to mention yet another fatwa but Ibn Baaz has declared takfir of people who believe sun is stationary ( and I agree with this fatwa). Yet I dare say "If my frame of reference is on sun, sun is stationary". Using that logic you can easily declare stationary anything you want.
Since you recognize the fallibility of Sheikh Uthaymeen ( or any other scholar for that matter ), you should also learn to hear some difference of opinion.
In the end I appologize if my words hurt you. I would appreciate if would also appologize to other brothers and sisters (not to me) for your hurting comments. Barakallahu feek.
Yes it seems like it was another Person that made this comment about Fatwah Generated Machine with the same avatar, I Appologize.
And I don't know what is the reason for bringing up the Sun and the Moon which has noting to do with the discussion, I know about those Issues they were already dealth with and many responces were given about it, they were speaking about the Mans Persepective living on Earth.
But Nevertheless You didn't hurt my feelings the least, I'm just defending the position which is held by the Majority the people of Ahlul Sunnah regarding this Issue of Jihad, which most of the Ullema agree Upon.
Also I never said I object to other Opinions, they can make their Opinion Upon the correct Understanding of the Qur'an and the Sunnah, and Yes they are all Human and they make Mistakes which we all agree but bringing up tangent Issues like the Fatwah of the Sun and the Moon really defeats the Purpose as to why we are even discussing the Issue of Jihad.
It Seems the Reason you Bought up those Issues of the Moon and the Sun is Because You wanted to proove, Shiekh Uthaymeen is wrong and he is not Knowledgable about Issues, so if he Is wrong One Issue he must be Wrong in Many others Issues.
1. First I already Pointed out that Shiekh Utahymeen and Shiekh Bin Baaz are Infallible, and the Make Mistakes they are Human
2. The Issue of Sun that you bought up didn't even work to your advantage, since those Fatwahs are only in another Perspective that you may be looking at. So even your that Fatwah didn't proove the Infallibility of Shiekh Uthaymeen, maybe you should have chosen a simpler approach then trying to proove his Infallibility(which we already agree) by this Fatwah about the Sun which is only a Matter of Perspective.
user expired!:
"bro salem im looking for the thread where a person said they beleived in only two categories of Tawhid- please can u show me the thread"
That Person was Banned and the thread was deleted. His nick was Abdul Haq or something. He was a Hardcore Takfiri, He Posted a whole article about Tawheed in which, one of the categories of Tawheed was Making Takfir and the Other was believing in Allah.
This is how much far from the deen Muslims have become, when we go into Issues like this, it totally brain washes the person from thinking straight, all they can think about is Fighting, and Politics, and Khilafah, and Making Takfir, etc. Instead of going Back to the Qur'an and Sunnah.
My Last Post insha'Allah will be a Video Responce, Insha'Allah Listen to and Analyze why we Muslims are in the state we are In and How we can get out of it. We don't get out of it by going through Hijacking, or car Bombing, or Suicide Attacks or making our Own Little War Here and There, or Doing Jihad without the Permission of the Ruler of the Muslim Land or the Amir of the Land, or Making Hizbiyaa. We Get Out of It By going Back to Islam.
This is done by a brother I know from Paltalk, The Book is called Inverted Priorities - by Dr. Saleh as Saleh Rahimuhullah a student of Shiekh Uthaymeen
[yt]t8qmMoRSBP0[/yt]
A Responce to All Jihadi Muslims by Brother Abu Khadeeja as-Salafi
[yt]AV3jes032og[/yt]
subhana'kAllah'huma Wabihumdik' Wa'Ashhaduan'laaillaha'illahant Wa'As'tughfiru'llaha Rabi' Wa'ha'Tou'bu'ilayk
Don't Bother Responding and adding anything else, or lenghtening the discussion. Enough Proof and Evidences have been shown. It is your Job to take it or leave it.
As-Salaam 3laikum Wa Ra7matullahi Wa Barakatu.
And I don't know what is the reason for bringing up the Sun and the Moon which has noting to do with the discussion, I know about those Issues they were already dealth with and many responces were given about it, they were speaking about the Mans Persepective living on Earth.
But Nevertheless You didn't hurt my feelings the least, I'm just defending the position which is held by the Majority the people of Ahlul Sunnah regarding this Issue of Jihad, which most of the Ullema agree Upon.
Also I never said I object to other Opinions, they can make their Opinion Upon the correct Understanding of the Qur'an and the Sunnah, and Yes they are all Human and they make Mistakes which we all agree but bringing up tangent Issues like the Fatwah of the Sun and the Moon really defeats the Purpose as to why we are even discussing the Issue of Jihad.
It Seems the Reason you Bought up those Issues of the Moon and the Sun is Because You wanted to proove, Shiekh Uthaymeen is wrong and he is not Knowledgable about Issues, so if he Is wrong One Issue he must be Wrong in Many others Issues.
1. First I already Pointed out that Shiekh Utahymeen and Shiekh Bin Baaz are Infallible, and the Make Mistakes they are Human
2. The Issue of Sun that you bought up didn't even work to your advantage, since those Fatwahs are only in another Perspective that you may be looking at. So even your that Fatwah didn't proove the Infallibility of Shiekh Uthaymeen, maybe you should have chosen a simpler approach then trying to proove his Infallibility(which we already agree) by this Fatwah about the Sun which is only a Matter of Perspective.
user expired!:
"bro salem im looking for the thread where a person said they beleived in only two categories of Tawhid- please can u show me the thread"
That Person was Banned and the thread was deleted. His nick was Abdul Haq or something. He was a Hardcore Takfiri, He Posted a whole article about Tawheed in which, one of the categories of Tawheed was Making Takfir and the Other was believing in Allah.
This is how much far from the deen Muslims have become, when we go into Issues like this, it totally brain washes the person from thinking straight, all they can think about is Fighting, and Politics, and Khilafah, and Making Takfir, etc. Instead of going Back to the Qur'an and Sunnah.
My Last Post insha'Allah will be a Video Responce, Insha'Allah Listen to and Analyze why we Muslims are in the state we are In and How we can get out of it. We don't get out of it by going through Hijacking, or car Bombing, or Suicide Attacks or making our Own Little War Here and There, or Doing Jihad without the Permission of the Ruler of the Muslim Land or the Amir of the Land, or Making Hizbiyaa. We Get Out of It By going Back to Islam.
This is done by a brother I know from Paltalk, The Book is called Inverted Priorities - by Dr. Saleh as Saleh Rahimuhullah a student of Shiekh Uthaymeen
[yt]t8qmMoRSBP0[/yt]
A Responce to All Jihadi Muslims by Brother Abu Khadeeja as-Salafi
[yt]AV3jes032og[/yt]
subhana'kAllah'huma Wabihumdik' Wa'Ashhaduan'laaillaha'illahant Wa'As'tughfiru'llaha Rabi' Wa'ha'Tou'bu'ilayk
Don't Bother Responding and adding anything else, or lenghtening the discussion. Enough Proof and Evidences have been shown. It is your Job to take it or leave it.
As-Salaam 3laikum Wa Ra7matullahi Wa Barakatu.
As-salaamu `alaykum.
I wouldn't say suspiciously silent, many of us have been away or have had little time. Anyway, although this thread has been closed by another mod (and rightfully so), I thought I'd add that Shaykh `Abdul-`Azeez Aaal ush-Shaykh spoke highly of Amr Ibn Al-Khattaab, rahimahulllaahu ta`aalaa! If I remember the wording correct, he did infact call him a mujaahid. This is our view of him (or at least mine).
As for Ibn Laaden, then to be honest I don't believe in the authenticity of most if not all of the the so-called footage of him available after 9/11. In some he is wearing gold, or is fat or is this or that?! The CIA website states he's right-handed yet in one footage, he's writing with his left? But that shouldn't be a reason for anyone to start praising him and taking him as a Shaykh, look at his ideas and what he calls to; look back at some of his interviews he has had. I'm not sure if many of you have seen it, but in an interview with Benazir Bhutto and British Sir David Frost, Benazir mentioned the death of Bin Laden, which was later "excused" as a slip of the tongue (it BARELY sounds like one). However whether he's dead or alive, the `Ullemaa' have spoken of him, warned against him, including those who knew and were WITH him in Afghanistan during the soviet war.
Anyway I think from now on, I will close all threads of this nature as I notice them; sorry Mosabja we know you are providing the news, but too much fitnah is caused through the likes of these threads; and much of what I read from the replies was rather babyish and showed clearly that people can't (always) be bothered to read eachothers posts carefully, yet they are ready do engage in arguements!!! In addition the some-what sympathetic wording of such articles worries me. So in future we'll probably delete any subsequent posts and close the thread!
I hope this is clear,
Baarak Allaahu feekum.
I wouldn't say suspiciously silent, many of us have been away or have had little time. Anyway, although this thread has been closed by another mod (and rightfully so), I thought I'd add that Shaykh `Abdul-`Azeez Aaal ush-Shaykh spoke highly of Amr Ibn Al-Khattaab, rahimahulllaahu ta`aalaa! If I remember the wording correct, he did infact call him a mujaahid. This is our view of him (or at least mine).
As for Ibn Laaden, then to be honest I don't believe in the authenticity of most if not all of the the so-called footage of him available after 9/11. In some he is wearing gold, or is fat or is this or that?! The CIA website states he's right-handed yet in one footage, he's writing with his left? But that shouldn't be a reason for anyone to start praising him and taking him as a Shaykh, look at his ideas and what he calls to; look back at some of his interviews he has had. I'm not sure if many of you have seen it, but in an interview with Benazir Bhutto and British Sir David Frost, Benazir mentioned the death of Bin Laden, which was later "excused" as a slip of the tongue (it BARELY sounds like one). However whether he's dead or alive, the `Ullemaa' have spoken of him, warned against him, including those who knew and were WITH him in Afghanistan during the soviet war.
Anyway I think from now on, I will close all threads of this nature as I notice them; sorry Mosabja we know you are providing the news, but too much fitnah is caused through the likes of these threads; and much of what I read from the replies was rather babyish and showed clearly that people can't (always) be bothered to read eachothers posts carefully, yet they are ready do engage in arguements!!! In addition the some-what sympathetic wording of such articles worries me. So in future we'll probably delete any subsequent posts and close the thread!
I hope this is clear,
Baarak Allaahu feekum.
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