Discussion in 'New and Current Affairs' started by MOSABJA, Jun 11, 2008.
don't worry we settled it on Private Message : P
Brother salem you should not PM as we really need knowledge discussion between you and other members please.
ahhh .....sad but then life goes on..
Salem has a typical saudi Tunnel vision thinking.Who think that every body except them are kaffirs.Then being ally of US they dont hesitate in Labelling the Mujahids of Deen as Deviants
Bin Ladin and Bin Baaz controversy started on one single issue.That was Bin baaz gave a fatwaa allowing US troops to come into Saudi arabia.
Bin ladin was Vigorously opposed to this thing.He even offered his own troops to defend troops for Saudi arabia.Actually Bn ladin quoted a verse of Quran that
"Jews and Christians can never be your protectors"
And he went on accusing Bin Baaz of taking Christians as their protectors.
Bin ladin in his sheer anger quoted this hadith
On the authority of Thawban, the Messenger of Allah (upon whom be blessings and peace) said:
The Prophet Sallallahu ‘Alaihi Wa Sallam said: "Before your treasure, three will kill each other -- all of them are sons of a different caliph but none will be the recipient. Then the Black Banners will appear from the East and they will kill you in a way that has never before been done by a nation." Thawban, a companion said: 'Then he said something that I do not remember by heart' then continued to say that the Prophet, praise and peace be upon him, said: "If you see him give him your allegiance, even if you have to crawl over ice, because surely he is the Caliph of Allah, the Mahdi. If you see the black (meaning war) flags coming from Khurasan (Afghanistan), join that army, even if you have to crawl over ice, for this is the army of the Caliph, the Mahdi and no one can stop that army until it reaches Jerusalem."
(Son of Majah, Al Busiri, Al Hakim, Ahmad Nuaym, Ad-Daylami, Hasan, son of Sufyaan, and Abu Nuaym)
saudi fatwaa machine came into movement .All hadith where Khurassan regarding end of Qiyamah were mentioned were categorized as fabricated.
now I dont disrespect Sheikh Bin Baaz .He was a scholar of Islam.
But as Allah says in quran
"Curse on jews and christians who consider their priests as Gods"
Considering every word coming out of a mouth of a particular scholar as TRUE is SHIRK.
No scholar is Fully right and No one is fully wrong.
Why have'nt all these saudi scholars spoken against Interest in their country.
about triliion $$ Saudi money in US banks.
about Prince Sultan air base near Holy cities.
1. Bin Laden is Not a scholar in Islam, He has not even sat with scholars. He sits with Ikwanies and Deboandies and Innovators of the religion. Most his Mentors are members of Ikwanul Muslimeen, I even mentioned this before. Like Abdullah Azzam And Zawahri etc. all of whom who take from Sayed Qutb who believes Allah created the Qur'an which is kufr also the take from Moududi. I asked Takfiri a Supporter of Bin Laden on This Site how Many Categories of Tawheed there are, and He said 2. 1, Being Believing in Allah and the second being Making Takfir. They don't even know or have read Kitabul-Tawheed but they want to go make Jihad and call scholars who dedicate their lives for Islam ignorant.
2. I have not called anyone a Kaffir so please don't accuse me of saying things which I didn't say.
3. lol Bin Laden has an Army? Also It is allowed for Muslims to tell a Kaffir Army to fight another Kaffir Army.
4. There are no American Bases Near Holy City stop living you are being Diluded from these Lies, which Simply arn't true. Most of them have left Saudi Arabia matter Fact, they have bases in Qatar another Ikwani country, and Kuwait, and Bahrain.
5. What does Khurasaan or Black Flags have to do with this? Is our Religion Baed upon this Hadith alone? You accuse them have a Fatwa Machine. Sorry but the way you speak shows how Much You know about them. These Scholars dedicate their Lives for Islam and the correct Understanding of Islam for thier whole LIfe, and Yes they are Human and they make Mistakes but the you can't speak like this about them. Your scholar "Shiekh" Bin Laden the Ignorant even Alligned himself with members of the Shi3a of Hizbullat when they were fighting the Soviets and also in Iraq. Then He told his followers to go and fight the Shi3a but when their tactics weren't working now he is welcoming the Shi3a. This is your scholar Bin Laden who is Two Faced.
6. The Kuffar Use people like Bin Laden and Other people Like him to curse Islam and Muslims and Invade Muslim countries. You would be Surprised who benefits from people like him. If You look at the ideology of Hamas and the Ikwanies, Many of those Books which they are formualted and Ideas come from Haifaa, Israel believe it Or Not.
brother saleem, plz forgive us and dont bother posting in this thread again. U have totally biased view which cant be changed.
Plz put up a seperate site aagainst taliban and Bin Laden and dont argue wid us here.
Bro waht's the idea of bull smacking Pakistani Muslims, huh? Man don't get me wrong, because in many countries you'll see many groups.
1. The Nationlists and Secularists, un Islamic
2.Basic Un Islamic people who don't practice their Deen
3.Innovaters and people who don't go around looking for and at Sahih sources, rather they beleiv waht the ehck a book says becuase it's written by "Moulanas."
4.The best ever, the Mumins, the practicing Muslims. Who get awy from the Duniyah things and would rather (and they do this) practice their Den and live into an Islamic lifestyle.
You'll find these in people in every Muslim country. And who says that Pakistani Muslims worship graves and stuff? Those are minorities. It's like saying that Pakistani and Bangaldeshis are Ahmadiyyah because ther have been some of those people (and even Shias) in the country.
Yeah, I'll tell you the truth by my own experiances brother. I know that there are bad Muslims (who have gone into Kufr) in Pakistan, but not every Pakistani brother or sister is like that. Jsut liek how evry Pakistani brother or sister isn't racist or hating towards Bangladeshi Muslims because of the war.
In my pacle, in Paterson, ther are few Pakistani Muslims. You'd ahve to go to another twon for that, but I've seen EVERY one of them to be practicing. The brothers, who work in stuff like technology and computer stuff, they even grow beards, and I'm not saying that it would label them as being a really good Muslim, but I know that the majority of the Un Islamic Muslims in Pakistan (and Bangladesh) don't wear beards; and the brothers and uncles wear them because they know that Allah Ta Alla will be pleased with them and that they would get rewarded for it.
And for the sisters, well I haven't seen alot of them. And that's one of the good things too, if I don't see them, were are they? Out of the sight of everyone out there, why? Because they understand the Hijab.
And for the Pakistani Muslimahs tha I've seen were of one family. In reality, they are my Unite's (my Uncle's wife's) sisters and cousins. And I've only seen them when I was a kid like when I was 7-9, btu I can still remember some things about them. But anyway, the point is, that what did I experiance? Even when I was a kid, I knew that ther was a thing called the Hijab, the headscarf, and my Untie's sisters/cousins all wore it, whether they were 17+, married or not, if their husbands wer around or not, they'd still wear proper Hijab. You know, the black one, the one that covers everything, including the Burkah? THat's what I'm talking about. And maybe it wasn't all of them, but almost all of them (I have no raios for you guys, my Untie had alot of cousins and sisters, LoL ).
And for the bad Muslims in Pakistan, well I don't have the full knowledge, but from the extent of my experiance, there are still brothers with beards, and sisters with proper Hijab, whether they are white, tan, brown, ot black or blonde haired (and borwn too), they still have Muslims that practice Islam.
And like I said before brother, cuase I got to go for Isha now (it's 11:17!), but like I said, there are good and bad peopel in every Muslim country, you may just never see it.
Like there are even brown haired and white skinned Bangladeshis, would you be able to beleive it? Maybe not, but it is true.
And ther are practicing Bangladeshi Muslims out ther too, you jsut might not ever se it (her in Paterson anyway); like the Bangaldeshi brothers and sisters that go ehr or use to on TTI:
Sister Samiha, Brother DNA, Brother Saheed, and more. They're practing Muslims, and they stand with thier Pakistani brothers and sisters in Islam, because we are one Ummah, and we are untied that way.
War is over, especially war that was run by Munafiq and evil government rulers (only the Pakistani bros/sisters might understand what I', saying), so why stay angry at them (the Pakistanis)? They are our brothers and sisters in Islam. OUR OWN BROTHERS AND SISTERS. We are okay and friends with Indian Mushriks, BUT NOT EVEN OUR OWN BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN ISLAM? People don't see this, because they are blind. And peopel don't care about India, but when it comes to Pakistan there might be some comment or some idiot trying to make a joke about them (which is corney too ), but they don't understand, and if they know the truth (of the war being over), they don't care, like the Pagans of Mecca, like Abu Jahl, how knew Muhammad (SAW) was Allah Ta Alla's RAsul, but didn't caer or follow him.
And so there are alot of Bangalis (and Bagladeshis, I don't like using this at Un Islamic ones) who are still war torn, and who still hold anger at what happened, but there are Bangladeshi bothers and siters out there who forget about the wars, forget aobu what happened, and try to still stay united. Like what Amir Nek Mohammad Wazir, a great Amir of the Pashtun said "Whatever happend, whoever's fault is was, be it our's, or the army's, we will not fight each other again,"
What's this mean, it means that now we have both made the msitake, by fighting each other, btu now we recognixe it, and we have forgiven each other, and now we shall forget the past, we shall reunite with our brothers, and we shall look and work together for a better futrure, Allahu Akbar, may Allah Ta Alla bless him, Ameen.
But nayway my main point is, that ther are bad people, yes, ther can be many abd peopel, like as what you are saying about Paksitan, but in every nation of abd people, in each place of darkness, ther is a small ounce of light, and later on that light shall illumiante and destroy the entire darkness.
One example is in Chechen. Many of the Muslims there wer Sufi, and Sufis are known for their Bidah and also Shirkh, but in all that ther was some light, and that was their Eman ,their Uniting as an Ummah aginst the enemies of Allah Ta Alla that is bringing them closer and Inshallah going to bring them to the Sunnah, and than all that evil shall perish Inshallah.
So brother, by saying that, we can also hope that by the wars and seperating in Pakistan and the fighting the Munafiqs and Amreecans, we can also hope that the Muslims will learn and know the truth, and that they shall unite together, and come back to the Sunnah, and by that they will surely be united, and that is what our Ummah shall be, Subhanallah. LoL I think I'm talking like my Pakistani Uncle on this part, LoL .
So anyway, 11:46, Assalamu ALyku mWarahmatullahe Wabarakathuh, and brother, this fight for udnerstanding and Ilm shall continue tommorow, for Inshallah we have won most of THIS battle, and we have hopes of winning this war for truth and udnerstanding, As Salam.
-Your young To be a Hafez and great big Sheikh, Abdul Hasib, Al Guraba, Wa Al Mumin, Wa Mujahid, Al Abdullah (Inshallah).
Asalam-W-Alaikum Brothers and Sisters,
Saleem i think you should consult some Sycatrist, you dont seem to me ok.
You have made your routine of speaking againgst the people against whom you dont know,
You have the problem with Jihad, no mujahid is a muslim in your view and yet you sit at home and criticise them, if there is no one, why dont you go to battle.
You are sure that all pakistanies/dewbandies will go to hell, as if you have been told or have seen some dream.
You dont have a single proof and yet you speak *!*!*!*! against the people who life is devoted to the will of Allah (SWT).
We will fight all the enamies of Islam (kufars, munafiqs [ who sit at home and criticise Jihad])
I have been unable to understand your religon and your belief, you are not to me from this galaxy.
Jihad is our way and we will do it till the last day.
Why would I go battle? if you believe doing Jihad there is a must then why don't you go, and sell your computer and go there and fight. Fight with those Innovatars those who basically don't know much, who haven't sat with scholars, are totally ignorant of the religion, go and fight with them if you think this is a must.
You also said:
"We will fight all the enamies of Islam (kufars, munafiqs [ who sit at home and criticise Jihad])"
Then what are you doing here siting at home? sell your computer and yalla go fight.
You Also wrote:
"You are sure that all pakistanies/dewbandies will go to hell, as if you have been told or have seen some dream."
PLease qoute for me where I said Pakistanis will go to Hell, or Pakistanis are Kuffar? PLease Qoute for me where I said Deobandies will go to hell or Deobandies are Kaffir?
Don't accuse me of things I didn't say, I don't know why it is a habit with you people accusing me of saying something I didn't say or twisting my words
I second that.
Salem9022, take the hint and get on your bike!
Now i really respect brother Salem.
He got too much energy for generating new fatwas. Brother salem which software you are using to generate fatwas. Please tell me.
Salem is like my brother thats why i am working for him. Brother whenever you want to write about any school of thought and you think he is among the 72 sects just write down abbreviation i mean short term which is "7's" and we will understand what you want say for example
1. Deobandi 7's
2. Bin landen 7's
3. All other school of thought (except yours) 7's
You can agree with me or not but the Moderators agree with me, and I'm sure they will say the same thing. It is a waste of time talking with people like you when I bring you a fatwah you say we Love these scholars but then later you say they are Saudi-Government-Agents, then when we bring you proof from Qur'an you call them Munafiqs, when we say Deobandies don't follow the right Aqeedah you say we are calling them Kuffar. I mean it is very hard to talk to people who already have made up their Mind, and twist other peoples words. But insha'Allah the truth is coming out and will come out, even if people like you try to hide it and use Islam to do the things you are doing.
Also What is Your Stance on Suicide Bombings? Is it Permissible to Kill Yourself in Suicide Attacks or Not?
sha587 I didn't speak about any 72 sects, please when you speak to me bring proof to the things that I said. And also type clearly, It's hard for me to understand what you are trying to say.
My interpretation of that line was indirectly you were saying some people were kafir.
Maybe I misunderstood?
The killing of innocent civilians whether they be muslim or non-muslim whether that be achieved by suicide or otherwise is haraam, its not from Islam, suicide is also forbidden.
lol @ fatwa generating software
Dont write abt that software here as USA might use it to issue false fatwas and declare deobandis as kafir.
Funny thing is that brother Salem forgets after writting his words. Please go and cook food. This is non of ur concern
so you are implieing I'm taking this from Fatwah generated Sofware? I don't think there is even a think.
And no where did I say deobandies are Kaffir, and Isra yes it is allowed for Muslims to tell a Kaffir army to fight another Kaffir army, and that kaffir army I was referring to was the Baathists and Marxists, of Saddam Hussien.
Isra you didn't fully answer my question, I asked if you believe Suicide Bombings and Suicide Attacks is Allowed? Not whether killing Innocent people is Allowed, that is another Issue. Is Suicide Attacks and Suicide Bombings Allowed, like how the Taliban and Al-Queda do? Yes Or No.
The bad thing about such forums is, that you never know the age and educational and social background of the persons you are talking to. I have the impression, that brother Salem is still very young and enthusiastic. Brother Abdul Haseeb is young too but he seem to have learned some good manners. I hope, one day brother Salem will become a fine young man, if only he could stop believing that he and his sheikhs are the only ones, who are right. With all the due respect to your sheikhs like Ibn Uthaymeen, it is evident just by looking at their fatwas, that you must be extremely careful accepting everything from them. Just look at Uthaymeen's discussion on earth being stationary and the revolving sun being responsible for days and nights, and you will know, where I am coming from.
Lol, Abdul Hasib has excellent manners for a 13 year old mashaAllah , I think I can learn some from him
I didnt know I had suddenly acquired a degree from the Islamic University of Madinah ...are you asking me for a fatwah? ...I suggest you refer to a Scholar inshaAllah.
Separate names with a comma.