3 and not 5 prayers in Turkey

[Aapa]

Salaam,

I read briefly and do not have the fatawa nor any proof that Turkey and Egypt are accepting 3 prayers as sufficient instead of five. Please someone research for us..this is crazy

 

[yusra489]

Auoodibillah this is crazy Don't believe it. Allah has commanded us to pray 5 and that is it no questions.

 

[Jannah03]

i remember when i was talking to someone about islam a couple of years ago, and this woman said that her husband has reduced the prayers from 5 to 3. i repeatly told this person that we were commanded to do 5, and it is Still 5 prayers we do. Aaoothubillah, thats awful

 

[nyerekareem]

:salam2:

that's crazy!!! :astag:

 

[Mrmuslim]

salaam alikom,

there is no such Fatwah from well know scholar and even if there is i am sure is from some one who dont know the rules of the islam or he is ignorant
the prayers are 5 times a day never lesss even at the time of war.

unless u travelling u can pray them together that different issue

Allah knows.

 

[Meraj]

:salam2:

:astag:

those who believe it r follow it are not muslims at all...they might be munafikeen.......may ALLAH(SWT) save us from misinterpretation of anything abt islam.....

 

[arabiantxn]

actually i read that to the turkish consultative council declared such a proposition that implyed you can combine the two prayers and hence only pray 3 times total ie pray as if you are traveling. i don't think it was accepted i think it was something they looked.:astag:

 

[Peace2u]

Salam

I once heard of a group of people who claimed to be Muslims that only prayed 3 times a day, unfortunately I cannot remember the name of what they are called.

I heard a similar Fatwa that was given in Turkey but not in Egypt. I just don't see the Egyptians giving such a Fatwah about shortening the prayer from 5 to 3.

This is an article I read from the net.

"Ankara, 10 Oct. (AKI) - Turkish Muslims will be allowed to pray only three times a day from Wednesday instead of the usual five - without fear of committing a sin.

A member of the scientific council of Istanbul University, Muhammad Nour Dughan, has issued a controversial fatwa or religious edict cutting Islamic prayer requirements from five to three times a day.

The move has provoked widespread debate as well as opposition from orthodox imams or Muslim clerics.

Sharia law allows for the possibility of praying three times a day in case of sickness or travel.

The fatwa extends this option allowing Muslims to pray three times a day, especially when they are heavily committed with work or personal issues."

Is this secularism gone crazy or just a ploy by Turkey to be accepted into the EU.

Next thing you know , they will probably say its ok to have sex outside of marriage.

Astagfarullah.

 

[shaheeda35]

:salam2:
:astag: Now I have heard it all!! Following our own vain desires. Allah commanded us to pray five, it could have been more, but Allah is All-Merciful, subhanallah!!

 

[unique_princess]

:salam2:

may b they mean :
1. pray fajr
2. pray zuhr at the end tima and asr at the beginning time
3.pray maghrib @ the end time and esha@ the beginning time

although it is wrong to delay salaah, if they don'y mean the above something is completely wrong with the guys who gave this fata and believe cutting down salaah is ok.

ma assalaama

 

[Saifu deen]

:salam2:

:astag:

 

[MTYKK]

I'm a Turk, haven't heard such thing, Turks would be quite upset and in uproar to such false ruling and take that Imam down.

Mixing Dhuhr with Asr and Maghrib with Isha out of need is allowed but not advised.

Bahais (Whom are NOT MUSLIMS) do 3 times a day, so do many other misguidances. But they're mostly in US I think, and they don't claim to be Muslim. Obviously Ottoman didn't like them much, and I don't think they like Turks a whole a lot.

 

[danial]

i have an explaination! maybe these ppl hu pray 3times a day live in 12hour day periods....one day is 12hours for them! appropriately, tts about 3 prayers a day n 2 prayers the next

 

[Aapa]

Salaam,

I received this information on another website. I am getting several PM's. Please understand I am only sharing information. I asked for clarification on the issue. I was amazed to see the article. In no ways or means does this reflect my beliefs which are simple. I am Muslim.

 

[Musulmanin]

:salam2:

This is wrong.:astag: Tomorrow someone will decide to reduce to one, and later to none. :astag:

5 daily prayers is a must.

inshAllah our Ummah will be cured from bidah.


wasalam

 

[muharram23]

Salaam,

I read briefly and do not have the fatawa nor any proof that Turkey and Egypt are accepting 3 prayers as sufficient instead of five. Please someone research for us..this is crazy

That is why Allah s.v.s sent punishment to turkey, the earthquake, and everything was destroyed except the masjid. Is there anyone who will be mindful? What else is coming to turkey and other muslim countries from Allah if they don;t change is much worse.

Assalamu alaykum

 

[kayleigh]

:salam2:

may b they mean :
1. pray fajr
2. pray zuhr at the end tima and asr at the beginning time
3.pray maghrib @ the end time and esha@ the beginning time

although it is wrong to delay salaah, if they don'y mean the above something is completely wrong with the guys who gave this fata and believe cutting down salaah is ok.

ma assalaama

That's what I was thinking too. The 5 prayers are still offered, but in 3 individual sittings, since you combine some. I know it's accepted for travel, and the Shia do it if they want with or without travel.

as long as they're still being prayed, it's no the worst thing in the world. Most Muslims don't even pray at all.

 

[*Sana*]

This is just as crazy as it can get... How can people even think of trying to change the religion that was descended to us by God through the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him)? The principle difference between Islam and previous religions and scriptures is that there will be no manmade changes made to the Holy Book and to the Divine religion.

Seeing that the contrary is taking place, this is indeed the sign of the Day of Resurrection and by no means should such so called "fatwah's" be accepted.

May Allah Ta'allah preserve His divine and ultimate religion as He promised. And may He guide all the misguided and educate all the ignorant, Ameen.

 

[Bluegazer]

Assalamu Alaikum sister mirajmom,


You wrote the following:

I read briefly and do not have the fatawa nor any proof that Turkey and Egypt are accepting 3 prayers as sufficient instead of five. Please someone research for us..this is crazy

I think a lot of things will be cleared if you view the following article:

Ankara, 10 Oct. (AKI) - Turkish Muslims will be allowed to pray only three times a day from Wednesday instead of the usual five - without fear of committing a sin.

A member of the scientific council of Istanbul University, Muhammad Nour Dughan, has issued a controversial fatwa or religious edict cutting Islamic prayer requirements from five to three times a day.

The move has provoked widespread debate as well as opposition from orthodox imams or Muslim clerics.

Sharia law allows for the possibility of praying three times a day in case of sickness or travel.

The fatwa extends this option allowing Muslims to pray three times a day, especially when they are heavily committed with work or personal issues.

The Turkish debate echoes a similar one that has already taken place in Egypt where the fatwa has also drawn support.

Jamal al-Banna, brother of the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, Hasan al-Banna, endorsed the Turkish move.

"Merging prayers has become a modern necessity," he told the al-Arabiya website. "In most cases, people do not always perform the five prayers on time due to the pressures of modern life."

Al-Banna is often criticised for his modern interpretation of Islamic rules. He said the Prophet Mohammad himself had given followers this option that could be applied when prayers cannot be carried out in a given time.

A member of Egypt's Supreme Council for Islamic Affairs, Sheikh Youssef al-Badri, rejected the argument saying it was unacceptable to merge prayers unless it was due to travel, illness, rain or pilgrimage.

Source: http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Religion/?id=1.0.1409142549


Brother Peace2u posted part of this article in post #8, which made it easy for me to find the whole article. I thank him.


From the above, you could see that this is the view of Muhammad Nour Dughan [member of the scientific council of Istanbul University]. It was supported in Egypt by Jamal al-Banna, who's the brother of the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, Hasan al-Banna.


The following points are worth mentioning:

-----------------------------------

1- After the fall of the Ottoman Empire and the birth of the ultra secular Turkish Republic [not that mild secularism is alright!], there have been many official moves that just go against the basic tenets of Islam even in the personal lives of Muslims.


You find that women wearing the hijab are discriminated against with regards to finding government jobs and attending Universities. You find that Muslim men who decide to grow their beard find similar discrimination.


Please read the following article found on the timesonline.co.uk website. I have coloured phrases that show the official [and not necessarily popular] Turkish anti-Islamic stances in red, and I have also coloured and underlined the statements of one Professor Nilufer Narli in purple and the positions of other secularists, which shows her [and their] utter ignorance and or disgust at very basic Islamic teachings. Please read the whole article carefully:

From The Sunday Times

May 6, 2007

Headscarf war threatens to split Turkey

Christina Lamb, Istanbul


SHE has a gentle face and caring manner. She has completed nine years of medical school and training, including a year as a clinician at a hospital in the Welsh city of Bangor. But at 29, Dr Ayse Maden cannot work in her home country of Turkey as the paediatrician she has trained to be because she wears a headscarf.

“It’s crazy, isn’t it?” she says, pointing at the offending item, which is white with green and black spots on the day we meet. Headscarves are banned inside public offices in Turkey, including schools and hospitals, and Maden has to scrape a living doing occasional medical translation. Yet outside on a busy Istanbul street, almost every woman passing is wearing a headscarf.

It is this simple square of cloth that has provoked a political crisis, exposing a growing rift between Islamists and secularists over Turkey’s direction, and threatening a military coup.

Almost two-thirds of Turkish women wear a headscarf ? 62%, according to the Turkish Economic and Social Studies Foundation ? but the prime minister’s nomination of a president whose wife wears a headscarf has produced outrage. More than a million flag-waving protesters came out on to the streets of Istanbul last Sunday.

It also prompted the country’s powerful military to post a warning on the army’s website that it may intervene to protect the secular state laid down by its founder, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk.

“The headscarf is a political symbol,” explains Professor Nilufer Narli, head of sociology at Bahcesehir University, who was among the protesters. “People think if the first lady wears a headscarf then many things will change, threatening our whole secular system and forcing all women to wear headscarves.”

Ayse Maden was two years into her degree at the Bosphorus University in Istanbul when the headscarf ban was imposed in 1998. “I had worn it since I was 16 because it is part of my Muslim faith to cover my head,” she said. “It was my dream to be a paediatrician but I couldn’t just stop something that is an important part of my religion.”

For two years she and her headscarf-wearing friends, such as Havva Kaplan, continued trying to get into the university every morning but most days were forced back by the police or the professors. Her parents and professors suggested she stop wearing the scarf or, like many women, wear a wig on top of it. “I cried a lot thinking about it,” she said. In the end she learnt English and went to Hungary to study before going to Wales to work.

Maden and Kaplan are activists for the Women’s Rights Organisation Against Discrimination, set up in 1999 to fight for an end to the ban. They have issued lawsuits against universities, and lobbied MPs and nongovernmental organisations, but Kaplan admits: “We’ve got nowhere.”

Their hopes were dashed when the headscarf ban was upheld by the European Court of Human Rights in 2005 and now they mostly raise money to send headscarf-wearing girls to study overseas.

“It should be our right to wear what we like,” said Kaplan, sitting in an office decorated with paintings of women in headscarves crying behind wire or being silenced by the hands of police. “This ban is excluding women from higher education and denying them jobs.”

Among their friends is a woman with a top degree in international relations who is now taking a cookery course because her headscarf bars her from working as a diplomat. Another is a lawyer who has to pass cases to her brother when they reach court because she cannot appear. And although the ban applies only to state institutions, it deters many firms from employing women in headscarves.

“I don’t understand why people are so scared of the headscarf,” said Kaplan. “We don’t see why Turkey can’t be both modern and Islamic.”

Despite the stark contrast in Istanbul between places such as the glitzy Kanyon centre, where the wealthy shop at Harvey Nichols, and the poor suburb of Fatih where the mosque is the focus of attention, it is common to see scantily clad women arm in arm with those in headscarves and long coats.

But many Turks believe it is a choice, pointing out that the issue takes on much more significance, given Turkey’s geographical position straddling East and West and with neighbours such as Iran and Iraq.

“This is not just a political crisis, it’s a war about a style of life,” says Narli, the sociology professor, tossing back her long, highlighted hair with red manicured nails to match her red high heels. “All my friends are tense and angry and worried about the future for their daughters.”,

She points out that the past 30 years has seen an enormous influx of rural people into the cities bringing with them village traditions such as wearing headscarves. At the same time headscarves have been changing. While mothers tended to wear simple scarves tied under the chin, their daughters are using what are known in Turkey as turbans ? scarves pinned to cover the neck completely.

“For years the middle classes have been silent but we see our society changing, more and more people wearing turbans and going to Mecca,” said Narli. “It’s like slicing a sausage piece by piece until people decide that’s enough. That’s why many came to the streets to protest for the first time in their lives.”

The battle over the headscarf is not just about religious beliefs. It also represents a clash between a fiercely secular elite, the so-called “white Turks”, and a new urban entrepreneurial class, many of whom came from the countryside. These generally support the Islamic-rooted Justice and Development (AK) party that swept to power in 2002 after an economic collapse.

The issue came to a head 10 days ago when Tayyip Erdogan, the prime minister, nominated his foreign minister, Abdullah Gul, to replace President Ahmet Necdet Sezer, who steps down on May 16. A Gul presidency would mean the country’s parliament, government and presidency would all be controlled by an Islamic party for the first time.

A parliamentary vote in Gul’s favour on April 27 led to the generals’ ultimatum late that night. Describing themselves as “the absolute defenders of secularism”, they added: “When necessary we will demonstrate our attitudes . . . Let no one doubt this.”

Few did: Turkey’s army is Nato’s second biggest with more than 1m soldiers and has ousted four governments in the past 50 years, the latest just 10 years ago.

Last Sunday saw the secularists’ second mass protest in a fortnight, chanting, “No to Shariat [Islamic laws]!” and “We will reconquer Istanbul!” On Monday the Turkish lira tumbled and stocks fell 4%.

There was little surprise on Tuesday night when the constitutional court declared the vote for Gul invalid, invoking a little-known law requiring a quorum of 367 MPs. Parliament brought forward elections to July 22.

An angry Erdogan described the court’s decision as “a bullet fired at democracy” and vowed to press on with Gul’s candidacy. Another vote is scheduled for today but the necessary quorum is not expected to be achieved.

Tens of thousands of people protested against the government in two western cities yesterday, calling for the secular system to be preserved.

Gul is regarded as charming, speaks several languages and, as foreign minister, has overseen negotiations for accession to the EU. “I have been Turkey’s foreign minister for 4½ years,” he said last week. “There are not many people in Turkey who can be trusted if I can’t be.”

But Turkey’s president holds important powers, such as chairing the national security council and appointing judges, university rectors and top civil servants as well as a veto over legislation.

Many secular Turks suspect AK harbours a hidden Islamic agenda that it would implement once it had control. They point out that Erdogan was imprisoned in 1999 for inciting religious hatred after he recited an incendiary Islamic verse and was photographed sitting at the feet of Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, a fundamentalist Afghan warlord.

This view is widely held at the Ataturk Thought Association (ADD), which aims to protect the legacy of the revered founding father of the 84-year-old republic. The ADD was one of the groups behind last Sunday’s rally and its office above the Bakirkoy market is bustling with people preparing flyers for others all over the country.

The ADD’s president claims that membership has risen from 350,000 to 1m because people are so fearful that secularism is under threat. One of the new members is a pretty 18-year-old called Ekiem who hopes to study industrial engineering.

“AK wants to turn Turkey into Iran and force us to wear chadors,” she says. “To me there’s a war going on for Turkey now and my generation must fight for the republic as the young generation did during Ataturk’s time.”

Yet nobody at the ADD is able to name a single law promoted by the AK party that challenges the country’s secularism. Some AK-controlled municipalities have created alcohol-free zones and Erdogan did try to criminalise adultery in 2004 as part of a reform of the penal code but withdrew it under EU pressure. Yet the party has disappointed many of its own supporters by not lifting the headscarf ban.

Under AK rule, Turkey has seen lower inflation and higher foreign investment, and has been accepted as a candidate for EU membership.

The events of the past 10 days, including the army’s statement, may have strengthened the AK’s position in the forthcoming elections, though yesterday two centre-right parties announced that they were uniting to take it on.

Not everyone is unhappy. At the Tekbir headscarf shop in Fatih, where scarves are on sale for anything from £2 for cotton to £50 for silk, sales have been booming so much that it now has three branches.

“Maybe Turkey is now two Turkeys,” said Cemil, one of the salesmen. “But I know which one is growing faster.”

Source: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article1752230.ece


In spite of all this anti Islamic behavior, most Turks reject this behavior. The above article mentions that, "Almost two-thirds of Turkish women wear a headscarf ? 62%, according to the Turkish Economic and Social Studies Foundation ?" It seems that there's a typographical error when they printed "?" sings after the above two sentences.


Therefore, sister mirajmom, you should disregard any statements concerning the Islamic religion that comes from the official Turkish State or its secular die hard admirers.


As an after thought, Abdullah Gul [who came from a party with Islamic roots] has just been elected the President of Turkey by the Turkish Parliament after his party won recent parliamentary elections. His official stance is that he praises secularism. However, the Army and many secularists in Turkey hate him. Whether his statement about secularism is from his heart or a political maneuver is something that only Allah knows.

------------------------------------------------------

2- Jamal al-Banna [brother of the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood] is known for his very unorthodox stances on many issues. His views on Islam are not worth the paper they're written on.


His views are very different from his late brother [Hasan Al-Banna -may Allah have mercy on him].


In an interview on Al-Arabiyyah.net, he stated many views that are just totally insane. I shall mention the main themes in Arabic and then translate them into English:

وأضاف أن الحجاب يحول عمليا دون مشاركتها في الحياة العملية، فما دامت الاوضاع السياسية والاقتصادية والاجتماعية قد غيرت من وضع المرأة، مما يستدعي تغيير المفاهيم بشأنها وما يستتبعها من حجاب أو غير حجاب.وأوضح أن شعر المرأة ليس عورة ولا يوجد أبدا في الكتاب والسنة ما يقول ذلك،

And he added that the hijab practically prevents her [i.e., a woman] from contributing in the real/practical life. And since the political and economic and social situations have changed the position of the woman, then this entails the changing of the concepts concerning her and what it entails of hijab or not hijab. And he explained that the woman's hair is not forbidden [i.e., for foreign unrelated men to see] and there is never a thing in the Book [i.e., the Qur'an] and the Sunnah [i.e., the Prophet's sayings] that says that.

He even goes on to say:

لابد أن نفرق بين كونها في الشارع، فلا نرى ضرورة لأن تلبس غطاء على رأسها، وبين أن تكون في الصلاة فترتديه، وإن كنت لا أرى حرجا في أن تصلي بدونه.

We must distinguish between her being in the street -then we do not see that it's necessary to wear a covering on her head- and between her being in prayer -then she wears it,even though I see no shame in praying without it.

And

وأضاف يجوز للمرأة أن تؤم الرجال في الصلاة إذا كانت اكثر علما بالقرآن،

And he added that the women may lead the men in prayer if she was more knowledgeable in the Qur'an

And he said at the end:

قابلت في قطر الدكتورة امينة ودود التي فجرت موضوع قيام المرأة بامامة المصلين، وهي سيدة محتشمة جدا وتغطي رأسها وعلى علم،

.

I have met in Qatar Dr. Amina Wadud who blasted/exploded the subject of the woman leading the *people who pray*, and she's a very modestly dressed woman who covers her hair and is upon knowledge.

Source: http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2006/03/09/21816.html


The above interview was conducted on March 9, 2006.


As to how Dr. Aminah Wadud "blasted/exploded the subject of the woman leading the *people who pray*", she led men and women [who prayed side by side] in prayer in the U.S. in a Church, after not finding any mosque that agreed to host them. See the BBC's report about this event on the following link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4361931.stm


However, the official Egyptian stance certainly does not concur with Jamal Al-Banna regarding the merging of prayers [and I don't believe they agreed with him on his above views about the hijab or women leading the prayer either]:

A member of Egypt's Supreme Council for Islamic Affairs, Sheikh Youssef al-Badri, rejected the argument saying it was unacceptable to merge prayers unless it was due to travel, illness, rain or pilgrimage.

----------------------------------------


In the end, sister mirajmom, I urge you and all Muslims [and I remind myself] not to be shaken by such nonsense. Just like there are "scholars" like Jamal Al-Banna and his likes, there are also those who are well grounded in knowledge of the Qur'an and authentic sayings of the Prophet [peace be upon him] who know how the Companions [may Allah be pleased with them] understood these two sources and who really fear Allah.


Please click on the following link to see a lecture given by Sheikh Yasir Qadhi. The lecture is called "Perfect Justice: Debunking the Male Bias Myth". It will -God willing and with His grace and mercy- wash away any sorrow from the above insanity:

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=126489&postcount=9


Regards,

Bluegazer

Wassalamu Alaikum

 

[ozturking]

:salam2:
first of all, there is no such religious consultative council in turkey. the mentioned person and agency is from a university, what they claim bounds only themselves.
i have never heard that kind of a debate among muslims in turkey, and i am pretty sure that no conscious muslim turk would value that kind of a claim.

:mashallah: Bluegazer for the explanations, I guess you are Turk too.