Discussion in 'Islamic Discussion' started by truthseeker63, Jul 27, 2011.
This is absolutely and definitely a 'jadal'الجدل no doubt on that.
Assalamu alaikum wa rahmtullahi wa barakatuh brother Cabdixakim
First of all I am sorry for being over passionate in my discussion. Whatever the case, I should have the patience to listen to others.
Secondly, your last two questions are forcing me to have a deeper look into this matter. I am now reading tafsir of Surah al-maeda from Amin Ahsan Islahi, who is a teacher of Javed Ahmed Ghamidi. He has a different opinion than Ghamidi and my first impression is, that it is more agreeable.
The decisive question is, can we take ahli kitaab of today our awliya? My latest understanding is, that the main addressees of the verses we have been discussing were people with nifaaq in their hearts. When they used to meet jews, they would reassure them, that their basic faithfulness belongs to them. They were afraid, what would happen to them, if muslims are subdued by another force, say, jews or mushrikun. In other words, their association to Allah, the Prophet and the believers was not of the nature, that they would live and die with them. My "latest" understanding is, that it is that kind of "basic faithfulness", which defines, who is your wali. It's a question of "us and them". If somebody can stand with any other people besides Allah and the Prophet and the believers as "us" and has the courage to say about believers, let that happen to "them", then of course he belongs to those people. If you ask me exclusively, whether we are allowed to take any other people besides Allah and the Prophet and the believers as our Awliya in the same sense as the mufiqun had taken jews their awliya, then my answer can be nothing else than a clear "No". Our faithfulness must remain with Allah and his Prophet and the believers.
On the other hand, it has nothing to do with being kind, just, friendly and "altruist". Altruism is a virtue, which is not exclusive to christianity. It is our common heritage. I think, this was my basic difficulty.
Let me study it a little more and I will inshaAllah answer all your 3 questions.
friends influence each other very very much. It is in a group of friends that a person can take decisions that he would never take alone. Good or bad. So lets think about this.
Allah knows our intentions.
Wa'aleykumas'salaam warahmatul'Lahi wabarakatuh brother
Alxamdulil'Lah that we now understand each other eventually when all semed a total mess.
I find this translation sensible and according to context as that's exactly what's read from the following verses. But one thing we have to agree with each other is; this verse is NOT specific to a people of specific time( time of the Prophet 'p.b.u.h')... it applied then applies now and will apply in the future, the moment a muslim takes a Christian/jew as wali... The very practise is "Nifaaq" thus the prohibition and is not exclusive to the hypocrites.
Besides, I asked those specific questions in order to challenge the quote from Ghamidi's translation which you gave... and since you then withdrew from that position I don't think there's a need of answering them... Unless there is truth in " (al) being used as these" and "existence of christian community stabbing the muslims on their backs or just simply mixing communally with the muslims at the time of the prophet(p.b.u.h) " which will be highly embraced for knowledge purposes.
And one more thing I have to note brother; when you find some muslims(particularly me) leaning back to an understanding of some previous scholars, it's not a blind worship, rather it's the Sunnah of humans to have a referral( somewhere they identify with and base their views)... You just showed me exactly that: initially you were holding onto Ghamidi's views because you identify yourself with him and value his views above anyone else's_ you depend on his understanding so that you yourself draw your own understanding from a matter_ this is the referral which every muslim should be using any time of his life( and the important note: is to withdraw from your Source's views once it's proven wrong to you) and this would be the perfect Sunnah... a referral after referral takes us to the classical scholars( unless you intend to start everything from a scratch and make hard a matter made easy for you long ago)...
what would be really wrong and unacceptable is when I disagree with your latest post just because it's from Ghamidi's teacher, that would be absolute arrogance... And if you found that understanding from another source besides Ghamidi's teacher and you, for instance, disagreed with it then that would definitely be scholar-worship or scholar-some other word... But referring to the understanding of a particular scholar/ school of thought(involving a link of developing understandings) or hanging to his understanding unless you find it completely disproven then there is nothing wrong with it and is a good practise.
This is true. Lots of replies about scholars opinions on who are friends or not friends very confusing. But there are good people found everywhere and we can be influenced by good or bad. It's very possible that a not so good Muslim can be influenced by a good Christian friend ( coz there are also many good Christians) tho maybe Muslims not see that and vice versa. Important thing for friends to encourage each other in good ways... And with kindness dissuade from doing bad. For people of faith this is easy task . We should be friends and love each other. because life is short.
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