Theatheist
New Member
Actually, this pattern is just a (usually, with a few exceptions) inevitable outcome that all life follows because it's necessary for survival. It doesn't come from God. It's just how it works.
Ask an atheist anything.
- Thread starter Theatheist
- Start date
- Status
Actually, this pattern is just a (usually, with a few exceptions) inevitable outcome that all life follows because it's necessary for survival. It doesn't come from God. It's just how it works.
Theatheist
New Member
Hello Theatheist,
Welcome to TTI family.
First of all, I congratulate you for being an atheist. Why? Because you have already said and believed in the First Words of the First Part of Islamic Shahada. That is "Laa Ilaaha" (There is no God). The second Words are "Illallah" (But Allah), which we shall try to convince you to InshaAllah (God Willing).
Most of the people who belongs to different religions in this world are such because their parents are such. Christian because their parents are christian, Hindus because their parents are Hindus, Buddhist because their parents are Buddhist and even some Muslims are there who are Muslims because their parents are Muslims. These are the most ignorant of all.
We all MUST look for the truthfulness of our belief with our brain, with the modern science, with history etc etc.
The reason I congratulate you is because you ARE unlike them. You attempted to think about the God you worship. When you found that is totally falsehood, you chose to leave it, although your parents are having a different belief.
There are many people who were Christians before they changed their mind according to Atheism, who embraced Islam after further research on God's existence and on their Belief. Even TTI has some of them.
So this is your turn my brother in Humanity. Keep an open-mind unlike some people who came here before. Yeah their mind was not only closed, but sealed tightly, before coming here, and neither they, nor us were benefited from them.
As many brothers and sisters have already asked so many questions, I am not going to ask any, for now.
Have a wonderful stay with TTI family.
Peace
How very kind of you! Thanks a lot for the kind words.
I feel, for the most part, incredibly welcome.
Theatheist
New Member
Well, not necessarily.
Imagine you have three computers. One mac, one pc and one linux. Can you install the Linux software on the PC? No. Can you install the Mac software on Linux? No.
Things work when they are in environments that allow them to work. The same goes for life. Would life grow in a place where there is nothing to respire? No. Would life grow in a gas giant? No.
And it's very likely that life, albeit bacterial life, existed on Mars around 5 billion years ago.
Also, one final point, the universe is infinitely bigger than our minuscule solar system.
I'm going to post a video by the Atheist, writer and astronomer, Carl Sagan.
http ://www.yo utube.co m/watch ?v=wupToqz1e2g (remove the spaces)
Theatheist
New Member
I'll have a look at your link later.
I left because I realized it was all bogus. I mean, everything was made up. Even the bible was written and compiled many hundreds of years after Jesus' supposed death and resurrection. There's very convincing arguments that Jesus never actually existed!
If you get a chance, download this short (1hr) documentary. It's called 'the god who was not there'. I'd be interested to hear what you think about it.
Theatheist
New Member
That's a big text! I'm going to have a look at it in detail when I have more time. I'm just passing through here this morning.
Theatheist
New Member
What is theory? An educated guess? Theory is a speculation which can't be prooven. Big bang and other theories are just theories. If it was a fact which could be prooven, it would not be called a theory. In Quran, it mentions the big bang that the heavens and earth were joined together and Allah (the only true God to b worshipped) split them apart. but we don't believe it all came from itself but Allah was the One who permitted and ordered it to happen. If you want proof from Quran, I will be glad to give it to you. Imagine our prophettold us 1400 years ago which was recently being known about.
But I still don't understand why people follow theories (which can't be prooven as a fact) and be firm upon that over the Quran.
If a simple thing as a car can't originate from itself yet the enormous universe, galaxies, planets etc. Can?
Tace care
The word 'theory' has a different meaning in a scientific context. It refers to how something is done rather than the end result. It doesn't mean 'a guess'.
If you want to know other well respected, universally accepted science that are called theories, I'll point you to the theory of gravity and germ theory.
Theatheist
New Member
I rejected religion because I felt it caused violence and misery, was superstitious and fictitious and because the real answers are far more glorious and magnificent than the feeble answers to the origins of the universe that religion provided.
But, I lost my faith studying theology.
The two books that hardened my Atheism is 'God is not great' by Christopher Hitchens and 'The God Delusion', by Richard Dawkins.
Theatheist
New Member
Right. I have to go out for the day, so give me more questions and I'll go back to them. I'll also return to the questions I've missed.
Have a good day,
The Atheist.
Have a good day,
The Atheist.
hi
I have a gift 4 you! it is a book. I´m sure you will be delighted by this book. it is called "nature: cause or effect" by Said Nursi who is well known in Turkey for his rational and contemporary explanation of Islam.
This book proves and explains that, "The imaginary and insubstantial thing Naturalists call Nature, if it has an external reality, can at the very most be a work of art; it cannot be the Artist. It is a set of decrees; it cannot be the Issuer of the decrees. It is a body of the laws of creation, and cannot be the Lawgiver. It is but a created screen to the dignity of God, and cannot be the Creator. It is a law, not a power, and cannot possess power."
http://files.myopera.com/therisaleinur/ebooks/naturebook.pdf
http://www.scribd.com/doc/4984868/Nature-Cause-or-Effect
I have a gift 4 you! it is a book. I´m sure you will be delighted by this book. it is called "nature: cause or effect" by Said Nursi who is well known in Turkey for his rational and contemporary explanation of Islam.
This book proves and explains that, "The imaginary and insubstantial thing Naturalists call Nature, if it has an external reality, can at the very most be a work of art; it cannot be the Artist. It is a set of decrees; it cannot be the Issuer of the decrees. It is a body of the laws of creation, and cannot be the Lawgiver. It is but a created screen to the dignity of God, and cannot be the Creator. It is a law, not a power, and cannot possess power."
http://files.myopera.com/therisaleinur/ebooks/naturebook.pdf
http://www.scribd.com/doc/4984868/Nature-Cause-or-Effect
MrsHippogriff
New Member
You 'feel' this way simply because you watch and read stuff from 'Western Media'. Which of course no doubt has played a significant part in dehumanizing Muslim countries such as Iraq and Afghanistan etc etc.. Im sure you know all this already.
Not the best of examples. They CAN actually be run cross platform using applications such as 'Wine' or perhaps through Virtualization.,
For now id like to have the honour of reading your replies to previous questions.
Oh and of course, Welcome to TTI forums!
AZAM_SIDDIQUI
Junior Member
HI,welcome!
bro u ve said that u left catholicism .dont feel u hv left religion.
u r on ur way to finding one.infact u still hv a religion its called atheism which is as inexplicable as catholicism ,if not more.
so when the atheist argues with the catholic the atheist wins .because its like two blind men arguing about color and the atheist is atleast honest to admit he is blind.
however that does not solve anything.
when an atheist discusses with muslims they already have a common ground.that THERE IS NO GOD.....of course further down the road ...we say EXCEPT ONE.
but that doesnt mean that our paths are diferent its just that we r looking further in the distance and we r dedicated to show the way to anyone who cares to ask.
that apart if anyone says anything about atheism they r saying against atheism not against you.
we like u and respect ur search for knowlegde so b absolutely comfortable.
bro u ve said that u left catholicism .dont feel u hv left religion.
u r on ur way to finding one.infact u still hv a religion its called atheism which is as inexplicable as catholicism ,if not more.
so when the atheist argues with the catholic the atheist wins .because its like two blind men arguing about color and the atheist is atleast honest to admit he is blind.
however that does not solve anything.
when an atheist discusses with muslims they already have a common ground.that THERE IS NO GOD.....of course further down the road ...we say EXCEPT ONE.
but that doesnt mean that our paths are diferent its just that we r looking further in the distance and we r dedicated to show the way to anyone who cares to ask.
that apart if anyone says anything about atheism they r saying against atheism not against you.
we like u and respect ur search for knowlegde so b absolutely comfortable.
AZAM_SIDDIQUI
Junior Member
now coming to the q.
what evolved first.
the hen or the egg?
and then where did the cock come from.
what evolved first.
the hen or the egg?
and then where did the cock come from.
FreedomFighter
Junior Member
That's a big text! I'm going to have a look at it in detail when I have more time. I'm just passing through here this morning.
ya sure
, take your time if you need to.
AZAM_SIDDIQUI
Junior Member
DNA wise it is impossible for a bear to evolve from a whale.
Allah shukar the snake is not my sister
if humans evolved from monkeys why dont monkeys have beard?
hv u ever seen a monkey with a beard?
Allah shukar the snake is not my sister
if humans evolved from monkeys why dont monkeys have beard?
hv u ever seen a monkey with a beard?
FreedomFighter
Junior Member
^actually some monkeys do have beard , or is that how you call it.. i have seen, white hair on their lower part of face ?
, or is that how you call it.. i have seen, white hair on their lower part of face ?Inevitable.. Hmm.. why?
Once again you admit it yourself.
That there's power that life can't reach, it's beyond of all.
At the end you'll found that the inevitable force or pattern is a god will.
AZAM_SIDDIQUI
Junior Member
there is no RELIGION more VIOLENT then ATHEISM!
40,000,000[1] 72,000,000[2] World War II Worldwide 1939 1945 World War II casualties and Sino-Japanese War[3]
33,000,000[4] 36,000,000[5] An Shi Rebellion China 756 763 Medieval warfare
30,000,000[6] 60,000,000[7] Mongol Conquests Asia, Europe, Middle East 1207 1472 Mongol invasions and Tatar invasions
25,000,000[8] 25,000,000 Manchu conquest of the Ming Dynasty China 1616 1662 Qing Dynasty
20,000,000[9] 30,000,000+[10] Taiping Rebellion China 1851 1864 Dungan revolt
15,000,000 25,000,000 World War I (High estimate includes Spanish flu deaths)[11] Worldwide 1914 1918 World War I casualties
http://www.scribd.com/doc/18928849/The-End-of-AtheismWhy-atheism-is-no-longer-scientific
if u go ther leave a comment so i know u came and saw.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/19069884/Towards-ISLAM-D
40,000,000[1] 72,000,000[2] World War II Worldwide 1939 1945 World War II casualties and Sino-Japanese War[3]
33,000,000[4] 36,000,000[5] An Shi Rebellion China 756 763 Medieval warfare
30,000,000[6] 60,000,000[7] Mongol Conquests Asia, Europe, Middle East 1207 1472 Mongol invasions and Tatar invasions
25,000,000[8] 25,000,000 Manchu conquest of the Ming Dynasty China 1616 1662 Qing Dynasty
20,000,000[9] 30,000,000+[10] Taiping Rebellion China 1851 1864 Dungan revolt
15,000,000 25,000,000 World War I (High estimate includes Spanish flu deaths)[11] Worldwide 1914 1918 World War I casualties
http://www.scribd.com/doc/18928849/The-End-of-AtheismWhy-atheism-is-no-longer-scientific
if u go ther leave a comment so i know u came and saw.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/19069884/Towards-ISLAM-D
AZAM_SIDDIQUI
Junior Member
add to it 1million civilians dead in iraq.
and 3000 americans dead in WTC for which NO PROOF has ever ben offered.
watch 911 loosechange on youtube.
no wonder atheists believe in survival of the fittest and such benign policies.
so they kill indiscriminately .and after 8 years of war in afghanistan r still strugling with ppl living in hills.
If there is God you will agree he is not on their side . I mean THE COUNTRY
THAT BOMBED OUT NUCLEARED TWO CITIES FULL OF INNOCENTS-hiroshima and NAGASAKI.
we dont hate anyone we hate "hateful"ideologies and brutal policies.
dont shy away from admitti g THAT THE ATHEIST GOVERNMENTS OF TODAY ARE THE MOST CRUEL INSTITUTIONS ON EARTH.
remember stalin,remember hitler,dont forget america,uk ,pakistan india russia egypt they r all in the same boat.
caling a country muslim doesnot mk it one .when at night it goes and sleeps with the oppressors.
and 3000 americans dead in WTC for which NO PROOF has ever ben offered.
watch 911 loosechange on youtube.
no wonder atheists believe in survival of the fittest and such benign policies.
so they kill indiscriminately .and after 8 years of war in afghanistan r still strugling with ppl living in hills.
If there is God you will agree he is not on their side . I mean THE COUNTRY
THAT BOMBED OUT NUCLEARED TWO CITIES FULL OF INNOCENTS-hiroshima and NAGASAKI.
we dont hate anyone we hate "hateful"ideologies and brutal policies.
dont shy away from admitti g THAT THE ATHEIST GOVERNMENTS OF TODAY ARE THE MOST CRUEL INSTITUTIONS ON EARTH.
remember stalin,remember hitler,dont forget america,uk ,pakistan india russia egypt they r all in the same boat.
caling a country muslim doesnot mk it one .when at night it goes and sleeps with the oppressors.
AZAM_SIDDIQUI
Junior Member
just in case u hv a doubt about medeival chinese and mongols.theywere pagans which is an old name for disbeklief in ONE God.
Steve940
Junior Member
:salam2:
Usually I won't involve myself in discussions like these ones because it's like two rocks pushing up against each other. Neither is going to budge. However I've done a lot of thinking on this very topic in my spare time and think that I have some input that could be beneficial. I have a tendency to drag on and on instead of getting to the point, but I'll try to keep it brief.
Most debates of people of religion against atheists usually revolve around theories. For example, Creation Theory vs Big Bang Theory. You will have some who will say that God created us and others who will say we evolved. When people debate on this, you hardly ever see anyone change their mind about their viewpoint. I don't want to debate on this point because it's been done many times before and is frankly a waste of time.
When all is said and done it is ultimately the choice of any given individual to believe in God or not. I hope to break this choice down in a way that helps people to see in a basic form what they MUST believe.
---------------------
I'm going to speak from the perspective of an atheist to help me get to my point
Imagine for a second that we are viewing the history of the universe on a time line. As you work your way backwards into history on that time line, you can see past events such as wars, scientific discoveries, as well as every other thing that has happened in this world. Now imagine you keep going back in time further and further. Eventually you will reach the creation of the Earth. Whatever theory that you believe in doesn't matter. This "imaginary" time line is in fact real, the only problem is we don't know exactly what is in it. We know that the Earth had to be created somehow for it to be here. The only question we have is 'how?
Keep going backwards in time. If you were to ask people what happened before the Earth was created, most would say they don't know. Only very learned scientists would give an answer. Okay, let's say we know what happened before the Earth was made. What happened before that? And before that?
Keep asking this question over and over, assuming that we had the answers, and eventually you are going to reach a point in time where you are going to get a very strange answer, unlike any of the answers you will have received before this one.
....What happened before that? I have thought it over and have come to the conclusion that only 1 of 3 things can be the ultimate answer.
1. Everything in existence has never been created. Essentially, all of matter has no beginning. From a scientific point of view, this is insane.
2. Everything in existence created itself. We as humans consider ourselves to be the most advanced species on this Earth. However, we cannot create anything from nothing. We can manipulate the things around us, but to actually create anything is beyond our power.
3. Everything in existence was created from something else. However, that "something else" would fall into one of these three categories. If it falls into category 1 or 2, then it ends there and you have a conclusion. However if it falls into category 3 then you have a dilemma. If you have the universe being created by other creators, and those creators themselves being created by other creators, then eventually you must decide that these is an Ultimate Creator that was not created (God), because in order to be created there must be something before you. If everything that was in existence needed a creator, then there would be no life. This is because there can be no creator to initiate this "chain" of creators making creations, because all of creation would need a creator to start it all.
(I'm sorry if my explanation of point 3 is poor. It can be a hard concept to grasp and even harder for me to put into words, but logically it makes sense.)
---------------------
There is no other conclusion that you can come to to explain existence. If you read and understand conclusion 3, you will understand that it is not an acceptable answer to existence. And so you are left with choices 1 and 2. Either of these answers are mind boggling. It makes me wonder why some scientists scoff at the idea of God, and that the idea of God is laughable and insane, when what they MUST believe in is equally insane.
Conclusion 2 is, in my opinion, the weaker conclusion. How can the universe create itself from nothing, when we as humans could never even dream of achieving something much less great? The universe has no brain, no way of living or interacting. It is inanimate. To believe that it created itself is incomprehensible.
That brings us to conclusion 1. What we know as existence has no beginning. This conclusion in itself brings you to two sub conclusions. It is my belief that any rational person must believe in one of two ideas.
A. The Universe and everything in it has no beginning. All of matter has always existed in some form. It has changed in appearance over time, such as the formation of stars and planets, but the composition and substance has existed throughout eternity.
B. There is a Creator who has no beginning. This Creator has made the universe and everything in it as well as anything else It has willed to make. This is who we Muslims call Allah. He is our Lord, the one with perfect judgment and wisdom, who has power over all things. He is the one who sees and hears and knows everything. This is who we submit ourselves to in the religion that He has revealed to us through his prophets and messengers. We seek his forgiveness and hope to be of those to whom He shows His mercy.
I am sorry if any part of this was unclear. If anything needs clarification please let me know.
:salam2:
Usually I won't involve myself in discussions like these ones because it's like two rocks pushing up against each other. Neither is going to budge. However I've done a lot of thinking on this very topic in my spare time and think that I have some input that could be beneficial. I have a tendency to drag on and on instead of getting to the point, but I'll try to keep it brief.
Most debates of people of religion against atheists usually revolve around theories. For example, Creation Theory vs Big Bang Theory. You will have some who will say that God created us and others who will say we evolved. When people debate on this, you hardly ever see anyone change their mind about their viewpoint. I don't want to debate on this point because it's been done many times before and is frankly a waste of time.
When all is said and done it is ultimately the choice of any given individual to believe in God or not. I hope to break this choice down in a way that helps people to see in a basic form what they MUST believe.
---------------------
I'm going to speak from the perspective of an atheist to help me get to my point
Imagine for a second that we are viewing the history of the universe on a time line. As you work your way backwards into history on that time line, you can see past events such as wars, scientific discoveries, as well as every other thing that has happened in this world. Now imagine you keep going back in time further and further. Eventually you will reach the creation of the Earth. Whatever theory that you believe in doesn't matter. This "imaginary" time line is in fact real, the only problem is we don't know exactly what is in it. We know that the Earth had to be created somehow for it to be here. The only question we have is 'how?
Keep going backwards in time. If you were to ask people what happened before the Earth was created, most would say they don't know. Only very learned scientists would give an answer. Okay, let's say we know what happened before the Earth was made. What happened before that? And before that?
Keep asking this question over and over, assuming that we had the answers, and eventually you are going to reach a point in time where you are going to get a very strange answer, unlike any of the answers you will have received before this one.
....What happened before that? I have thought it over and have come to the conclusion that only 1 of 3 things can be the ultimate answer.
1. Everything in existence has never been created. Essentially, all of matter has no beginning. From a scientific point of view, this is insane.
2. Everything in existence created itself. We as humans consider ourselves to be the most advanced species on this Earth. However, we cannot create anything from nothing. We can manipulate the things around us, but to actually create anything is beyond our power.
3. Everything in existence was created from something else. However, that "something else" would fall into one of these three categories. If it falls into category 1 or 2, then it ends there and you have a conclusion. However if it falls into category 3 then you have a dilemma. If you have the universe being created by other creators, and those creators themselves being created by other creators, then eventually you must decide that these is an Ultimate Creator that was not created (God), because in order to be created there must be something before you. If everything that was in existence needed a creator, then there would be no life. This is because there can be no creator to initiate this "chain" of creators making creations, because all of creation would need a creator to start it all.
(I'm sorry if my explanation of point 3 is poor. It can be a hard concept to grasp and even harder for me to put into words, but logically it makes sense.)
---------------------
There is no other conclusion that you can come to to explain existence. If you read and understand conclusion 3, you will understand that it is not an acceptable answer to existence. And so you are left with choices 1 and 2. Either of these answers are mind boggling. It makes me wonder why some scientists scoff at the idea of God, and that the idea of God is laughable and insane, when what they MUST believe in is equally insane.
Conclusion 2 is, in my opinion, the weaker conclusion. How can the universe create itself from nothing, when we as humans could never even dream of achieving something much less great? The universe has no brain, no way of living or interacting. It is inanimate. To believe that it created itself is incomprehensible.
That brings us to conclusion 1. What we know as existence has no beginning. This conclusion in itself brings you to two sub conclusions. It is my belief that any rational person must believe in one of two ideas.
A. The Universe and everything in it has no beginning. All of matter has always existed in some form. It has changed in appearance over time, such as the formation of stars and planets, but the composition and substance has existed throughout eternity.
B. There is a Creator who has no beginning. This Creator has made the universe and everything in it as well as anything else It has willed to make. This is who we Muslims call Allah. He is our Lord, the one with perfect judgment and wisdom, who has power over all things. He is the one who sees and hears and knows everything. This is who we submit ourselves to in the religion that He has revealed to us through his prophets and messengers. We seek his forgiveness and hope to be of those to whom He shows His mercy.
I am sorry if any part of this was unclear. If anything needs clarification please let me know.
:salam2:
- Status