benefits of suras

[daywalker]

Imam Nawawi rahimahullahu, and all of those imams were busy people, sometime they put an atsar without checking the authencity of the atsar.

we dont need to assume. Proof that they didn´t know it by statement of their students.If you put doubtness by saying they were busy, then you gotta put doubt all of their work or? And if not, then proof this specific topic. How many people were busy?

Ibn taymiyah(rh) busy?
Imam ahmad(rh) were busy?
Ibn qayyum (rh) were busy?
ibn abidin(rh) were busy?
hafiz hukami(rh) were busy?

They are all sooo busy that they couldn´t check the authority, and certainly scholar of 20th century like sh.albani(rh) got enough time to do a job(checking the authority) for which job other scholars hadn´t any time?

Eventhough we accept the use of ayat Al Qur'an as Tamimah or protection, we won't accept it to be use as Tiwalah, where the atsar that it could be use as Tiwalah?

Dont assume sheikh, dont use words like : might,could,would. FAtwa is present.

We're talking about people who said that specific Surah and ayat as to have effects to specific illness, now where is the dalil that Rasulullah been saying all these things?

Sheikh you know better what things are hujjah.And ibntaymiyah(rh),imam nabawi(rh),imam ahmad(rh) .... they also know what is hujjah for islam, and after all these things, they give permissblity for using.

 

[daywalker]

Here I state my choice is to choose the opinions of imams which declared it as Haram.

But i was asking the opinion of shariah.You may adopt taqwa. But shariah isn´t based upon taqwa but upon fatwa. And fatwa fro being permissble is present.

Eventhough if those imam's opinion that it is permissible are right, there is no fatwa from these Imam which permit people to say that they know the Fadha'il of Surah without any Dalil from Rasulullah?

Wasn´t my topic and also has nothing to do with amulets topic.

The atsar which being quoted to dignify that it is permissible to use ayat Al Qur'an to be wear, only talk about using it for protection (Tamimah), it never talk about using it for Tiwalah (for attraction).

And attracting someone isn´t also topic of the thread.

Because that is the root where people start to use them as Tamimah, the believe that it could protect them from sickness.

What people do wrong isn´t my matter. My matter was getting clear answer what shariah allows and what not.

This means that the way of curing disease is by Ruqyah (means reciting) not by hanging, eventhough people suggest that the atsar as Shahih, people still couldn't resist to say that only Rasulullah could determine the fadha'il of Al Qur'an, and that he never mentioned that to cure sickness Al Qur'an should be hang at the body.

So sahaba(rd) innovated the religion?

I believe that those atsar as Dha'if, because that atsar about ibn Abbas putting some ayat Al Qur'an in paper which being put in glass... that the Ulama of centuries from now who bring this atsar, he never said that this atsar as Shahih,

It would be better instead sayng what u believe, go direct to the fatwa of ibn taymiyah(rh),ibn qayyum(rh) and imam nabawi(rh) how they judge the authencity of the hadith.

Those Imams are similar to Hukkama, that's why they got 1 reward for their mistake, but following their mistakes will not sanctify them, instead they commanded people to throw their opinions when it was against As Sunnah.

Ohh yeah 7-8 flag bearer of Salaf made mistake all upon one subject, and we understand Sunnah correctly! No doubt some understood Islam better than those who were closer to salaf.

 

[daywalker]

Imam Nawawi, ibn Taimiyah and ibn Qayyim considered as not checking the atsar authencity, what they did were that they were putting the atsar in their book so that Ulama could found whether the atsar got syahid or not.

sheikh you are missing the track. these scholars didn´t mention the atsar just to let other scholars check the authencity of the atsar. They give fatwa based upon those atsar. So they dont play with fatwa and say: let me give the fatwa first,, i dont need to check and later if you guys want to check the authencity then do it, i have put that in my book!

 

[podolski11]

weird......i havent heard of these names of sheikhs u keep talking bout but the weird thing why is there a difference between scholars on this subject?

ALLAHU ALAM.....what i heard is that we should stay away from something we r not sure bout

 

[daywalker]

Now,again that the Ulama also never commented on the Ulama whose opinion of declaring the non permissibility of it, while people of now could see both opinion and choose the opinion that Al Qur'an is to be recite, not to be hanged.If anyone feel that hanging that produce an effect, then following people who have fatwa based on their belief that the atsar isn't Dha'if. While it is Dha'if.

While it is daif cause you want to believe like that. For scholars like ibn taymiyah(rh),imam ahmad(rh) and others wasn´t atsar daif, cause it has nothing to do with their belief, it was their research.Adn thats why they allow it.

And thanks for stating that people can choose now from both side,, after 66 post.

 

[daywalker]

Not all that being stated as fatwa means that it is Shahih, if not then imam Syafi'i won't have Qaul qadim and Qaul jadiid, and many Ulama doing takhrij to Ulama before them, when they done the fatwa using a dha'if atsar, then the atsar was found to be dha'if by showing the saying "Salaf never did that" and this is also the law for people who regard the opinion of people who has seen the atsar being written without any commentary about it usually because they have not seen any source which against it, so just because people think it is Shahih because the Ulama make a fatwa of it, doesn't always become a fact that could be accepted as the truth.

it is common for imam Ahmad to have 3 opinions at once. It is known to people who read the imam other than Ahmad who said "Don't write everything which I say, because I say it now and change it later."

Instead mentioning some matters which has nothing to do with this thread, it will be better if you could tell soemthing about the fatwa of 7-8 prominent scholars.1 scholar didn´t get hadith doesnt mean all 7-8 hadith didn´t get.

And why don't you who chose the opinion of allowing it come with an evidence that the few atsar practicing Tiwalah (attraction amulet) by ayat Al Qur'an? While in the data written by Shimfa you find the Tiwalah in there.

I wasn´t asking about the 1st post. I was asking about the fatwas whcih was given regarding amuelts and not other variants.

 

[daywalker]

The atsar never mentioned about the use of Al Qur'an as Tiwalah. That's very clear.
Why don't you clear of your standpoint by what you mean as amulet, every kinds of amulet?

And don't get the impression that the Ulama who chose the haram verdict to that as lesser than 8 Ulama, because many Ulama who say that it is permissible and also many Ulama who forbade that. But making those fatwa of the Ulama to make Al Qur'an as Tiwalah need other dalil rather than the few atsar, am I right?

Why you are behind about using quran for attraction a woman?Read the fatwas of those scholars, what it allows only i agree with that. They didn´t write something about attracting any woman. so why walking around the circle sheikh?AMulets is sused for sickness and thats all. Dont know from where you brings words like tiwalah, niwalah =)

I dont know how many kind of amulets are present. It would be better if you will count them.

those 8 ulama is heavy enough infront of sh.albani and sh.abdul wahhab. you can go ahead which scholars near from salaf era prohibite that, and i will also mention 10 scholars more who permitted that.Dont see the number, see the weight of those schoalrs.even only 2 scholars from those are tough enough infront of sh.albani(rh) and sh.abdul wahhab.

The scholars i mentioned are near to salaf era. and the scholar you mentioneed are near from fitna century.qiyamah is coming, so stick with the opinion of those scholar who are near to salaf era and not 20th century fitna era.By fighting against bidah, when people even prohhibite halal things, Allah knows the best what to say....

 

[daywalker]

I say "It couldn't do anything to the one wearing it and it is based on fraud. And the atsar were Dha'if and Salaf never did it.

again sheikh, none was asking for your ruling. you say its weak, cause the chain doesn´t come totally to you. but chain was properly present to ibn taymiyah(rh),imam ahmad(rh),imam nabawi(rh),ibn abidin(rh).Its ajib people claim to follow the salaf, yet they accept understanding of 20th century scholars and leaves schoalrs who were close to salaf era.

And if people start to follow scholars of 20th century they gotta leave 50% deen cause they are getting hadith with broken chain!

 

[Hasana jafreen]

Assalam.
I think reading these suras is sufficient than wearing it.it is said that we should keep on reciting particular suras when we are not well.but not sure about that wearing part.

 

[daywalker]

:salam2:

I was asking for different kind of amulets and you start to give lecture about geography,science and biology. You could have spare your time sheikh.

 

[daywalker]

Ulama before Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab already differed in this. I'm responsible of my own choice and everyone choose differently responsible of their own, they will not be held accountable for what I choose.

You also know your choice isn´t shariah.

Again you notice that the safer thing is to do Ruqyah, because the general meaning of Hadits which did not allowed any kinds of amulet. And Ulama of the 20th century are helping people to unferstand that the Imams weren't Ma'shum although they are more pious than them.

Which imam? 3 imam? what about imam nabawi?what about ibn abidin? We know none are masoom, and What if we say sh.abdul wahab and sh.albani made mistake in this case? Instead telling people are doing mistake, you should clear where is the mistake. ANd yet none of your post answer the fatwa.And just claimd: i believe this , i believe that. Best generation were salaf, and 20th century scholars helping ummah! very funny indeed.

So, its up to people because Rasulullah never agree about making amulet from Al Qur'an, while you believe that Rasulullah agree about making amulet from Al Qur'an because atsar from Shahaba. That's your own choice, I've made mind and many Ulama before Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab.

Why do you mention scholar of 20th centtury? why dont mention scholar who were closer to salaf era? Its a slander to sahaba(rd) that you say sahaba allowed something which prophet mohamma(sw) didn´t agree! :astag:

 

[Tru3m0sl3m]

Imam Ibn Taymiyya (Allah have mercy on him) writes in his Fatawa:

“It is permissible for an ill or troubled person, that certain verses from the Qur’an are written with pure ink, then it is washed and given to the ill to drink. Ibn Abbas (Allah be pleased with him) is reported to have mentioned a certain Dua that should be written and placed close to the woman who is experiencing hard labour at the time of giving birth.
Sayyiduna Ali (Allah be pleased with him) says: This Dua should be written and tied to the arm of the woman. We have experienced that there is nothing more amazing than this” (Fatawa Ibn Taymiyya, 19/65).

Imam Ibn Taymiyya’s student Imam Ibn al-Qayyim also narrates the permissibility of using Ta’wizes from a number of salafs including the great Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal (Allah have mercy on him). Thereafter Ibn al-Qayyim himself quotes various Ta’wizes (Zad al-Ma’ad, 3/180).

Assalamu 'alaykum
I had doubt about authenticity of the above hadith in fatwa ibn taymiyyah so i went to a shaikh and asked him to research on the fatawa and the shaikh told me the above hadith is daeef and here are the notes on the above matter

those who are well versed with arabic inshallah will get it. The circled ra'vi has very weak memory as the sheikh said.. And about the second ahadeeth the shaikh said "the way the early salaf used to do it was in a very different way than what people do these days.. These days u can clearly see the element of shirk so to be on the safer side don't practice it.."
:salam2:

 

[daywalker]

Assalamu 'alaykum
I had doubt about authenticity of the above hadith in fatwa ibn taymiyyah so i went to a shaikh and asked him to research on the fatawa and the shaikh told me the above hadith is daeef and here are the notes on the above matter those who are well versed with arabic inshallah will get it. The circled ra'vi has very weak memory as the sheikh said.. And about the second ahadeeth the shaikh said "the way the early salaf used to do it was in a very different way than what people do these days.. These days u can clearly see the element of shirk so to be on the safer side don't practice it.."
:salam2:

:salam2: Jazakallahu khair brother for your effort. Did sheikh searched through the fatwa of ibn taymiyah(rh) and how ibn taymiyah(rh) authentied the atsar, or did the sheikh by his own?

 

[daywalker]

one request more, can you ask brother your sheikh about this hadith:

One another narration from sahaba(rd):

It is narrated from Amr ibn Shu’ayb, from his father, from his grandfather (Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-Aas (Allah be pleased with them all), that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) used to teach them (the Sahabas) for fearful situations the following words:

“I seek refuge in Allah’s perfect words from His wrath, the evil of his servants, the whispered insinuations of devils, and that they come to me”

Abd Allah ibn Amr used to teach these words to those of his sons who had reached the age of reason, and used to write them and hang them upon those who had not reached the age of reason (narrated by Abu Dawud & Tirmidhi, and Tirmidhi classed it as an authentic narration).

THe same one used by imam nabawi(rh):

One may adduece as evidence for their permissibility the hadith of 'Amr ibn Shu'ayb, from his father from his grandfather, that the Messenger of Allah, salla Allahu aleyhi wa sallam, used to teach them for fearful situations the words,
"I seek refuge in Allah's perfect words from His wrath, the evil of His servants, the whispered insinuations of devils, and lest they come to me."

Abdulla ibn 'Amr used to teach these words to those of his sons who had reached the age of reason, and used to write them and hang them upon those who had not. al-Majmu'

 

[Tru3m0sl3m]

one request more, can you ask brother your sheikh about this hadith:

One another narration from sahaba(rd):

It is narrated from Amr ibn Shu’ayb, from his father, from his grandfather (Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-Aas (Allah be pleased with them all), that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) used to teach them (the Sahabas) for fearful situations the following words:

“I seek refuge in Allah’s perfect words from His wrath, the evil of his servants, the whispered insinuations of devils, and that they come to me”

Abd Allah ibn Amr used to teach these words to those of his sons who had reached the age of reason, and used to write them and hang them upon those who had not reached the age of reason (narrated by Abu Dawud & Tirmidhi, and Tirmidhi classed it as an authentic narration).

THe same one used by imam nabawi(rh):

One may adduece as evidence for their permissibility the hadith of 'Amr ibn Shu'ayb, from his father from his grandfather, that the Messenger of Allah, salla Allahu aleyhi wa sallam, used to teach them for fearful situations the words,
"I seek refuge in Allah's perfect words from His wrath, the evil of His servants, the whispered insinuations of devils, and lest they come to me."

Abdulla ibn 'Amr used to teach these words to those of his sons who had reached the age of reason, and used to write them and hang them upon those who had not. al-Majmu'

Assalamu 'alaykum
The shaikh said "This is a famous ahadith which some of the people use to prove the early salaf used to wear ta'weez. Among the chain of narrators "Muhammed bin ishaq" is labelled "mudallis ra'vi" he explained with this analogy of 3 characters A, B and C. For eg. C heard something from B who inturn heard the same from A now C is telling others that "A said bla bla" when actually C didn't hear anything from A so we don't know about the credibility of B making the ahadeeth daeef and the shaikh(Abdul waaris madani) saidahadeeth with a mudallis ravi is always under a scanner if there are no other ahadeeth to support it. Hence, weak ahadeeth

As for the answer why these are labelled as sahih?

No one is infallible as far as the deen is concerned except Prophet Muhammed(sallalahu alayhi wasallam) be it shaikh albani(ra), or any other muhaddithin .. Everyone is bound to errors..
:salam2:

 

[daywalker]

As for the answer why these are labelled as sahih?

No one is infallible as far as the deen is concerned except Prophet Muhammed(sallalahu alayhi wasallam) be it shaikh albani(ra), or any other muhaddithin .. Everyone is bound to errors..
:salam2:

ähmm, it will be nice to get the explaintaion of those scholars who said that the hadith is sahih, instead saying who said it to be weak.XYZ rawi is labbeld as weak by whom? opinion differs.Those who came before, the narrators were strong to them, but these who came later, the narrators are labelled weak.

 

[Tru3m0sl3m]

ähmm, it will be nice to get the explaintaion of those scholars who said that the hadith is sahih, instead saying who said it to be weak.XYZ rawi is labbeld as weak by whom? opinion differs.Those who came before, the narrators were strong to them, but these who came later, the narrators are labelled weak.

.Ya akhi you've to go through the science of ahadith with all the tools and resources you've got now will you be surprised if sheikh Muhammed Nasirudeen Al-Albani(Rahimahullah) proves the authenticity of a ahadeeth authenticated by Imam Tirmiddhi(Rahimahullah) as weak? If yes will you say to the newer version of RiyadusSaliheen(By Dar Us Salam Publications) as the tampered version??

 

[daywalker]

.Ya akhi you've to go through the science of ahadith with all the tools and resources you've got now will you be surprised if sheikh Muhammed Nasirudeen Al-Albani(Rahimahullah) proves the authenticity of a ahadeeth authenticated by Imam Tirmiddhi(Rahimahullah) as weak? If yes will you say to the newer version of RiyadusSaliheen(By Dar Us Salam Publications) as the tampered version??

IT depends what the author of the book accepted when he mentioned the hadith of imam tirmizi in his book.

And if sh.albani(rh) wanna have his own serach of hadith, then he can print with his name a new verion of riyadus salihin.

Like he did with sahih adab al mufrad and so on.

Its better to search what early muhaddithin said about the authentic o fhadith cause ibn taymyiah(rh) said: In fact, those who came before the compilation of these books were much more knowledgeable than those that came afterwards. This is due to many Ahadith were authentic in there time but reached to us through an unknown narrator, or with a broken chain, or did not reach us at all…

 

[Tru3m0sl3m]

An 'anah or Tadlis by Muhammad bin Ishaq is not taken as an 'anah if he said that he accepted the narration from his syaikh.

The narrators who use to do Mudallis or Mudallisin were Hasan Al Bashri, Muhammad bin Ishaq etc. Tadlis is the action, it is divided into

1.Tadlisul isnad, usually the narration was from Rawi who have met someone and heard something from him just in his zhan (weak zhan). He usually said 'An fulan or qaala fulan, not akhbarana fulan or haddatsana fulan.

2. Tadlisul Syuyukh, the narration came from what he heard from his syaikh but he told the syaikh name only by his kunyah name or or nickname or family name or character which is not known, so as not to be recognise. Example: Imam Hasan Al Bashri rahimahullaah.

3. Tadlisul Taswiyah, the narration came from a trustworthy syaikh, but the syaikh heard from a less credible syaikh, and this less credible syaikh accept the narration from a trustworthy syaikh. But the name of the less credible syaikh been deleted so it looks strong (the isnad). This is the worst type of Tadlis and followed by the 1st and the 2nd.
Someone who do this cheat will not be accepted his narration unless if he is a just man and willing to explain his narration, and part of them were absolutely not accepted. The more Shahih (precise) opinion is the 1st opinion, as explained by ibn Hajar Al Asqalani (Syarah An Nukbah page 18).

Infact Muhaddits had been considering hundreds of hadits as Dha'if (weak) because of the act of Tadlis by Mudallisin.


Assalamu'alaikum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh.

Jazakallahu Khairan..! In Detail and perfect not the way i was trying to explain...

Assalamu 'alaykum

 

[Tru3m0sl3m]

IT depends what the author of the book accepted when he mentioned the hadith of imam tirmizi in his book.

And if sh.albani(rh) wanna have his own serach of hadith, then he can print with his name a new verion of riyadus salihin.

Like he did with sahih adab al mufrad and so on.

Its better to search what early muhaddithin said about the authentic o fhadith cause ibn taymyiah(rh) said: In fact, those who came before the compilation of these books were much more knowledgeable than those that came afterwards. This is due to many Ahadith were authentic in there time but reached to us through an unknown narrator, or with a broken chain, or did not reach us at all…

where did sheikh ul Islam Ibn Al Taymiyyah(Rahimahullah) say that? Reference?

Assalamu 'alaykum.