Christian V Muslim dialogue

Discussion in 'Muslim <---> Christian Dialogue' started by Abu Loren, Jul 15, 2013.

  1. Abu Loren
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    Abu Loren Defender of Islam!

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    Aslaamu Alaikkum Wa rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

    This thread is for those non Muslims who are willing to have a dialogue about religion without a specific title nor a subject. This is in response to Mrs. Cariad who is eager for this type of dialogue and In Shaa Allah we can discuss any or all topics here.

    I personally do not believe that Interfaith Dialogues are any benefit to anyone because at the end of the day we discuss, argue and call names then we all go our separate ways not achieving anything. I sincerely believe that a person who does not have devine guidance is like cattel, they do not understand anything.
  2. Abu Loren
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    Abu Loren Defender of Islam!

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    Asalaamu Alaikkum

    I want to start the discussion off by quoting Mrs. Cariad from another thread.

    The answer is YES. We are to follow the messenger of our time, by this I mean that those who came after Prophet Nuh (Alayhi Salaam) followed his message and his Shari'a, those who came after Prophet Ibrahim (Alayhi Salaam) followed his message, those who came after Prophet Musa (Alahy Salaam) followed his message, those who followed Mashih Isa (Alayhi Salaam) followed his message, those who followed Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) followed his message.

    What I am trying to say is that when a messenger comes with a new revelation the previous revelation is not to be followed as there will be variations and possible new laws in the new message. For example, when Masih Isa (Alayhi Salaam) came with the Injeel the Torah of Prophet Musa (Alayhi Salaam) became null and void. Therefore, similarly when the Holy Qur'an was revealed to Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) the Injeel became null and void as we are supposed to be following the latest and new revelation and laws. So every human being born after the Holy Qur'an was revealed then one has to follow that to achieve salvation.

    To make matters worse for the Christians they pray directly to Masih Isa (Alayhi Salaam) who not the son of god nor god incarnate nor third part of the Trinity. He is just a man like you and me and he is not an intercessor. Many millions of Roman Catholics pray directly to saints and Mother Mary, mother of Masis Isa (Alayhi Salaam).

    Associating partners to the One True God is an unforgivable sin. No matter in which way you look at Christianity they associate partners to God.
  3. Hajjerr
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    Hajjerr He is Dhul-Jalali Wal-Ikram

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    Salam aleikum

    I think we should not hurry in deciding whose prayers are better and more accepted, only Allah knows His ways and in the end, our own Prophet Mohammed saws said we (humans) will enter Paradise only by Allah`s mercy, our deeds and iman come second.

    <<Narrated Abu Huraira (RadhiAllahu 'anhu):
    Allah's Messenger said: "The deeds of anyone of you will not save you (from the (Hell) Fire)."
    They said: "Even you (will not be saved by your deeds), O Allah's Apostle ﷺ?"
    He (Allah's Messenger ﷺ) said: "No, even I (will not be saved) unless and until Allah bestows His mercy on me. Therefore, do good deeds properly, sincerely and moderately, and worship Allah in the forenoon and in the afternoon and during a part of the night, and always adopt a middle, moderate, regular course whereby you will reach your target (paradise)."
    [Sahih Bukhari - Book 76, Hadith 470]>>

    true, I could not agree more.

    I think this video is useful, mashAllah.

  4. Janaan
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    Janaan ربنا اغفر لنا ذنوبنا Staff Member

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    :salam:

    Brother Abu Loren, perhaps we should delay this 'dialogue' till after Ramadhaan inshaa'Allaah?

    This blessed month comes around only once a year, so we should be spending every free second that we have on `Ibaadah and fulfilling the purpose of fasting, which is to attain taqwa as Allaah `azza wa jalla tells us .
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. Abu Loren
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    Abu Loren Defender of Islam!

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    Wasalaam

    Agreed. :)
  6. Janaan
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    Janaan ربنا اغفر لنا ذنوبنا Staff Member

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    :salam:

    Alright then. Will open it up once again after Ramadhaan. Do remind me in case I forget inshaa'Allaah.
  7. Hassan
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    Hassan Laa ilaha ilaa Allah Staff Member

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    :bismillah1:
    :salam:
    This thread is re-opened in case anyone has more to add
  8. Abu Loren
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    Abu Loren Defender of Islam!

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    Wa Alaikkum Asalaam

    Thank you brother Hassan.

    I invite non Muslims in making any points that they wish to discuss in this thread In Shaa Allah.
  9. islamdonlyway
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    Brother, there is nothing wrong in interfaith dialogue. In actual fact, even if it does not guide an individual to Islam/religion, it still provides them with general knowledge about a religion, which is critical in this modern society. If you look at history, many great islamic scholars had interfaith dialogues in the past and currently doing so. It bridges gaps and awareness is brought about in society. Islam is one of the most misunderstood religion, hence interfaith dialogues are needed.

    Furthermore, Allah's guidance can come from inter faith dialogues, it acts as a tool for guidance.
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Abu Loren
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    Abu Loren Defender of Islam!

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    Agreed.

    May be this thread can be deleted?
  11. Cariad
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    Cariad Junior Member

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    Salaam Abu Loren, I trust you had a peaceful and blessed Ramadan. I chose not to post on the forum as I do not see it a time for disagreement. I don't know if it could be said I am "eager" for any particular dialogue :) but am always willing to discuss things pertaining to religion with anyone who cares to. I am thinking many members here are fearful of such comparisons and discussions. I don't understand why this is, or why it could be seen as in any way detrimental to ones faith in almighty God. I do heartily believe it makes for better mutual understanding and that way lies peace..ya.

    Surely as adults we can discuss without recourse to rudeness and insult. On this point it does look at first that your post implies that as a Christian I am somewhat lacking in divine guidance, or even worse likening me to cattle... So I am like a cow!!! I do hope this is not the case ;)

    There are many many points in which our faiths are similar, and there are of course some great differences. Also big misunderstandings too..it is ones faith in the One True God that determines ones faith is true. You cannot say of Christianity that it has no truth or it is not from God with any certainty..any more than I can say the same of Islam. Because we do not know and will only know for sure at the end of our days and we face the judgement, until that time we have to go with what our heart tells us it true, for me Yahweh wrote on my heart the truth of Yeshua and my road to salvation is clear to me. For you Yahweh chose a different path, I believe both paths will meet, for Yahweh would never turn aside a soul who loves him and has spent their life working towards his glory.

    If you or anyone would wish to engage in polite discussion on our respective beliefs then that is fine if not that is also fine.

    peace and blessings C.
  12. Umm Abdullah
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    Umm Abdullah Junior Member

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    I've never understood the meaning behind interfaith dialogue. I mean at the end of the day our faiths are different and you ( Cariad) are obviously a firm believer in Christianity and we (walhamdulillah) are firm believers in Islam. So there is no point in discussing/debatting anyhting really.

    Ps. Yahweh or Yeshua didn't choose anything for me. Allah The Most High guided me to the straight path alhamdulillah :)

    Peace!
  13. Abu Loren
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    Abu Loren Defender of Islam!

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    Wa Alikkum

    Thank you for your concern and I had an amazing Ramadan Alhamdulilh. This was my second Ramadan as a Muslim better than the last one.

    I don't think that Muslims are fearful of inter faith dialogue it's just that we find that Christians tend to beat the same old drum and they are not willing to open their hearts.

    Indeed as adults I too agree that we can discuss matters pertaining to religion in a civilised and mature way without resorting to name calling etc. I call people cattle because this is what Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala has named people who do not have any understanding. Where I come from (the UK) we would be calling you a "silly cow". LOL


    Our faiths are similar in the sense that we follow the messengers that God had sent for mankind. The Jews follow Prophet Musa (Alayhi Salaam), the Christians follow Masih Isa (Alayhi Salaam) and the Muslims follow Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam). However, it is like the messages of Prophet Musa (Alayhi Salaam) and Masih Isa (Alayhi Salaam) are aboragted by something that is more recent and better being uncorrupted and straight. This is because both the teachings of Prophet Musa (Alayhi Salaam) and Masih Isa (Alayhi Salaam) are corrupted by the hands of men, they had added to the Torah and the Injil without any order from Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala.

    So what the Noble Qur'an does is it corrects both of those books. Islam is a pure religion untainted by the hands of men and perfected by Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala as a mercy for mankind until the Day of Resurrection.

    By the way, if I could just say this, if you take away the labels that we have placed on ourselves such as Jew, Christian, Muslim etc then what we have are worshippers who have submitted to the Almighty One from the time of Adam (Alayhi Salaam) to the present. During this time, many have fallen off the Striaght Path and a few have kept to the Straight Path thus having a chance of attaining salvation.
  14. Cariad
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    Cariad Junior Member

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    This is what I mean about basic misunderstandings. If you follow the God of all the prophets...if you follow the One true God...then Yahweh has indeed chosen the path you take. If by following Allah you see as a different God to Yahweh..then you do not follow my God, the One true God and the God known by all of the previous prophets, the God who greatness knows no bounds and without whose guidance we are all nothing but lost chaff on the wind. So if your Allah is indeed different in more than just name, then you follow a false God and I have no more to say to you.

    Allah is in fact Yahweh..one and the same. As a Muslim you just see him with different eyes, which is ok :) as for Yeshua... His gift is free to everyone who wishes to accept it... :)

    Peace.
  15. Umm Abdullah
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    Allah has 99 names that are known to us and Yahweh or Yeshua is not one of them. Besides do you really believe that God is One? I thought that christians believed in God the Father and God the Son (wal3iyadu billah!). In islamic terminology that's considered to be Shirk (polytheism).This is how Allah described himself in the Qur'an:
    " Say, He is Allah (who is) One, Allah, The Eternal Refuge, He neither begets nor is born, Nor is there to Him any equivalent." (surah Al-Ikhlas)
  16. Cariad
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    :D... I spend a good deal of time also living in the UK.. I would never refer to you as a silly anything let alone cow!!! LOL. I have no bovine characteristics or am silly..but of course you are free to attaché labels and names where you wish.. ;)

    Yes our faith are similar in many ways.. The mistake you make here is thinking that Our Gods plan for mankind is a disjointed affair and we all are given different messages. This may suit you as a Muslim to see it this way as Prophet Mohammed brought a different message to previous Prophets. In the Old Testament we have the ground work of God preparing his people for his plan for mankind, in the New Testament we have the culmination of that plan. I don't see how the Quran follows on or adds anything to that plan. If as you say the Quran somehow abrogates all previous work of God and is final, then it must at least have some continuity with all that went before. It does not really except for the point of there is but One God. Well the Jews and the Christians already knew and believed this fact and so I do not see what the Quran can add to that.

    I think it was sent to the pagans of Arabia and the first Arabic prophet was chosen by Our God to deliver it. As it is so intrinsically wrapped in the language and traditions of that region. This is just my idea.. Ya. Probably a bad one, but makes sense to me. because really to claim all Gods work before the Quran was corrupted without any evidence and to the extent it would change the original message so totally, or even that The Lord Our God would even allow such a thing to happen is impossible.

    Equally impossible is the claim that the Quran is uncorrupted by the hands of man, or can be pure or perfect. This can only be a matter of faith that this is so. I have the same faith in my Holy Bible. :)

    Here we can agree on our labels. We have placed such upon ourselves, for we are all one in the eyes of Our God. We may differ on a minor point that there could be more than one straight path, I have to believe that, for as a Christian I know that Our God would not turn his back on a good soul who had loved and worshipped him and lived their life to his glory... No matter what name they call Him by. Our God knows inside our hearts. There are many good Muslims as there are Christians and Jews, just as there are many bad ones. But do you think that Our God would turn his back to an unbeliever? I do not think so... Because Our God is love personified and his love for all his creation is greater than our need or belief in him.

    I think you do have a chance of salvation..

    Peace and blessings. C
  17. Cariad
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    Another misunderstanding... Of course we believe Our God is one. We may see in Our God different attributes than you as a Muslim does, but that does not equate to their being more than One God for Christians. The very idea is preposterous. Yahweh told the Prophets his message, Yahweh showed himself to many Prophets, and Yeshua taught us that Our God is knowable. I prefer to go with that as it makes more sense to me than a distant unitary entity. No offence. :)

    Peace.
  18. Umm Abdullah
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    :SMILY198::SMILY198:

    فَمَاذَا بَعْدَ الْحَقِّ إِلَّا الضَّلَالُ "And what can be beyond truth except error?" (10:32)
  19. Umm Abdullah
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    So you believe that God is One and at the same time a part of a trinity? You gotta admit it's a paradox. Both can't be true at the same time. No offence :)
  20. Cariad
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    I forgot to add.. The 99 names for Our God in Islam are nice, but these are more attributes than names I think. our God has no need of a name as we understand the term and usage. A name is a human invention. I give you 100 name you can add..that is Father, or if you like Abba. That is the name Yeshua used for Our God and it is why we as Christians use the term children of God, because Yeshua told us that is what we are. :)

    Yahweh, Allah, Father...Our God loves us all the same. :)

    Peace.

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