Christian V Muslim dialogue

Discussion in 'Muslim <---> Christian Dialogue' started by Abu Loren, Jul 15, 2013.

  1. AbuKhalid
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    Like I said, if you read the transl of Quran in any language, you'll get the message ... although reading and understanding arabic is better. Muslims are taught to aim high, hence its highly encouraged for everyone to learn arabic so they can get the best. Hope that cleared your misconception about the quran and arabic

    You have to know about it to see that. Probably reading the seerah as Abu Loren suggested is a good start. I recommend 'the sealed nectar' ... sorry, Im being lazy ...

    its just a claim, battles were fought and places were conquered but it is well known in Islam that religion is not forced upon people. Other places were not conquered but people accepted the message like indonesia and area, and Sri Lanka

    'prophets being perfect' is not an islamic view. Our view is that they are human beings and thus make mistakes, but they are not just any human ... they are the best among the people because they lead people and are models... so their mistakes are minimal and God corrects them. I dont know about david's lie .. plz give me ref. About Moses, that was prior to his prophethood and he did so defending someone. He didnt know his strenght and didnt expect one punch to cause that much damage. Can you imagine a prophet, someone chosen by God to bring mankind to success being immoral and doing indecent acts (i.e big sins that bring God's anger)?? Thts equal to saying God made the wrong choice!

    These criteria dont seem to be universal but for Israelites only. Also, I don't know about Noah, Lot, Abraham and previous prophets exalting the christ, plz give me refs where they did this. But still, Muhammad peace be upon him passes the test .. really!
  2. Cariad
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    Cariad Junior Member

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    I do not wish to burst your bubble here...but this is a "secret" millions of Christians have always known. Have I ever stated anywhere that one should not repent of ones sins before God? All religion .. At least those from God.. Teach sincere repentance is a necessary step towards salvation. Yahweh set the rules he requires for the covering of sin, blood atonement. What do you think Yom Kippur is about? The Day of Atonement for the Jewsish people...Christians are told by Yahweh through Yeshua that the new covenant for all the people Gentiles and Jews of the world was through the final atonement is Yeshua. Did Yahweh get it wrong..or did Mohammed misunderstand the basic principle and the most important..that in order for sinful man to stand before almighty God sins have to be paid for according to Our Gods rules. Blood atonement..

    are they all accurate? Or is there the risk of widescale corruption and inaccuracies as there seems to be whenever there is a translation of the Holy Bible. ;)

    Romanticised... That raises a smile.. Seeing as the Quran would have us believe that all these prophets were righteous, truthful, pious etc. even the Quran does not make this claim! Mohammed referred to himself as a sinner in need of Allahs mercy and forgiveness.

    What made the prophets special was the fact they were chosen by almighty God, they were still ordinary men and women. They had no powers other than those God so fit to gift them, and as they were fully human they were also prone to human weaknesses as we all are.

    Lot was never a Biblical Prophet, he was known as a pious man amongst a society known for their wickedness. You should look again at the story of Lot in your Quran, when the men came wanting the guests of Lot, the Quran states..(as does the Bible) Lot offered first his daughters in place of the guests knowing what sort of men these were. Is this a kind act by a Prophet towards his daughters? Does this fit with the view the Quran would have us believe of the nature of Prophets being all goodness?

    ???? I quite incredulous at this claim..are you saying the Jews removed Mohammed's name from the Holy Bible..or from the Torah and Gospels!!! Do you think they would wish to go to Hell?? For such is the promise for anyone who tampers with Gods word. Consider the problems with this claim you make, firstly that is purely conjecture by yourselves in the absence of any proof. But, WHY? For what reason.. The Jews did not accept Yeshua as the promised Messiah dispute all the evidence to the contrary, so they would not be adverse to recognising the prophecy of any future Prophet to come. yet they rejected Mohammed. because he did not meet their criteria. Yahweh had said prophets would come from Issac, Issac was chosen to carry the line is Gods message. It never was to be Ishmail.

    Then we have the matter of when did this deception take place. Given that the Holy Bible in circulation at that time and about 300 years before Mohammed is the same as we have today. It would have to have been changed in advance (by a few hundred years) of the arrival of Mohammed. Yet no one then would have had any reason to know Mohammed would ever be born. How could they change something they never knew would happen, since Mohammed was not mentioned in any of the scriptures by name.

    Then we have both the Jews and the Christians, each with their own scriptures. The Jews gave no importance to the gospels as they were to do with the redemptive message of Yeshua as the Messiah, and as we know they already reject him. So they would not conspire with Christians to change the story and remove Mohammed. The Christians held their Gospels in utmost esteem knowing as they did the importance of its message to mankind, Yeshua told them with his death the work was done, His death was the culmination of The Fathers plan for the salvation of mankind, they would not be expecting or wanting another Prophet...if they had have been Yeshua would have told them so.

    Really the facts don't add up to what you would wish them to. I did watch your video, but really to a person that has the doubts I have I can see nothing to assuage those doubts in what was said. It's another pint of view, another version of events. Yet when I look deep at that version and compare it with what My God has told me, I'm sorry I find it lacking.

    We have to get past this I am right and you are wrong I feel. I'm beginning to wonder if there is indeed any value in comparing our faiths. It seems to come across as you are right and I am wrong and vice versa...this is not what I wanted. I just hoped for each of us to understand why our different religions are important to all of us as individuals, it should not be about labels..like Christian and Muslim, we should be able to meet as brothers and sisters under the One God whom we all love and worship. I'm sorry if my posts come across as negative towards Islam, but if I am to be honest..and I must be, I have to admit that I do think you are in error in many ways just as you probably think the same of me. Yet in the grand scheme of things does it matter.. As we are only answerable to Our God.

    Accept my apologies for any harshness of posts.

    Peace and blessings. C
  3. Cariad
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    Cariad Junior Member

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    Ok..this is getting silly guys..:) We know we must not choose to test God, I think it is fair to say the Quran would also agree here. Testing God is a great sin and there is a command against it in the Bible -Do not test the LORD your God (Deuteronomy 6:16). However, while we must not test God, God does command us to test prophets...

    For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible. See, I (Jesus) have told you ahead of time. (Matthew 24:24-25)

    Do not put out the Spirit's fire; do not treat prophecies with contempt. Test everything. Hold on to the good. Avoid every kind of evil. (1 Thessalonians 5:19-22,)

    Do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world (1 John 4:1).

    For Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14).


    That Muhammad claims to be a prophet of God we as Christians cannot reject his claim outright as impossible because Christians believe that God has sent many prophets. But this does not mean that we should blindly accept that Muhammad is a prophet, that would be both foolish and disobedient. Instead we are told to test prophets to determine whether they are from God. Muhammad may be a true prophet or he may be a false prophet. As a Christian I have to go by the guidance of My God of the Holy Bible.

    How do we test a prophet? We test a prophet by examining his prophecy to see whether it is true. The prophecy of Muhammad is recorded in the Quran so we need to test what the Quran says and compare it to what we know to see whether Muhammad is a true prophet.

    The Quran makes claims why Muhammad is a true prophet. These claims are "testable". We test them.

    The Quran confirms the teaching of the Jewish and Christian scriptures.
    The Quran makes clearer the teaching of the Jewish and Christian scriptures.
    Muhammad is foretold in the Jewish and Christian scriptures.
    The Jewish and Christian scriptures are the writings of the prophets and are contained in the Holy Bible. These include the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel.

    So did the Quran confirm the previous scriptures? On the main point of there being One God, then yes. However, there are many parts that are at best at odds with previous scriptures and at times tell a completely different way.

    Did the Quran make clearer the previous scriptures? No it does not, for the scriptures both old and to a greater extent the new tell the redemptive story of man kinds redemption from sin through the grace of God and the death of Yeshua on the cross. The Quran denies the crucifixion ever happened, yet fails to offer another probable version of events.

    Was Mohammed foretold in the previous scriptures? no he was not, as much as you would wish to find him there, even I have heard in the "song of songs" !!! We are talking scriptures here not Gnostics, such as the well known forgery "the Gospel of Barnabas" used often by muslims to validate Mohammed through the Holy Bible.

    Apart from that, have you ever thought it slightly incongruous to seek validation of something from a work you believe has been corrupted to the extent to change the original message to such and extent as the need of a totally new and different message. How can you know what is trustworthy and what is corrupted? Is it enough to simply say if it agrees with the Quran it is right anything else is wrong. What does such a claim say about Our God...that he is incapable of protecting his message from the corruption of his creation! If this is so how can you possibly trust the claim of Allah to protect the Quran. if God failed to protect his message once (the very idea is ludicrous) can you be sure He will hold true the second time?

    Honestly.. Enough already.. :) I'm thinking I'm done here. :)

    Peace and blessings to you both and thank you for your dialogue. I have found it both interesting and informative. I applaud you for your patience.

    Peace and blessings. C x
  4. AbuKhalid
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    I'll keeep my comments simple this time, while waiting for your response to my post

    Depends what our intentions are. There is no need if its just a "here is what I believe" attitude ... we need more of an interest to LISTEN and benefit from each other ( I didnt yell out 'listen', I emphasized we need a real sincere listening here :) ) so we can learn something. If whatever you said is true, I accept ... but that wont work if we come with a debate mentality of course.

    As far as I'm concerned, I'm learning a few things from you through questions while I try to correct your misunderstandings about Islam. No offence here, but it seems you are holding on to that view about the quran transl which is incorrect, even after its been explained ... although our explanations can be lacking.

    Now, its not the first time I hear words (quoted above) to that effect in dialogues and I know reality is hitting home, whether you accept/welcome it or not, thats just my xp.

    But then, maybe its too much work for you to answer 2 persons ... I'll leave it to Abu Loren to continue this discussion. Continue with this beautiful discussion as you'v been doing from the beginning brother.
  5. Abu Loren
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    Abu Loren Defender of Islam!

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    Asalaamu Alaikkum

    I hope Mrs. Cariad will forgive me for talking about her in the third person sense.

    People like her comes to forums like this with a preconceived mindset which is closed off to any other school of thought. They try to win over people by being polite and civil but after a while they show their true colours which are that they start to preach their religion and refuse to hear the other side.

    She makes statements like "Prophet Muhammad failed the test of prophet hood" when she judges by her own standards. Funnily, she has never read the Noble Qur'an fully (translation that is) and she doesn't know any Hadiths nor has she read the seera or the life of the prophet to know what he is all about and what he had to endure what he had to go through in his life to be the messenger of Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala.

    I can accept that she is happy and content in her religious beliefs and nothing will sway her beliefs one way or the other. What I don't understand is why people like her come to Muslim forums in the first place. Do they want to learn with an open mind and heart or do they want to shove their religion on to Muslims?

    I really enjoy Christian - Muslim dialogues as I used to be a Christian and I can answer them back with some kind of knowledge. The trouble is they don't hearing what I have to say, and if it's not in line with their beliefs then they automatically shut down.
  6. Cariad
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    Cariad Junior Member

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    Duw yn y nefoedd yn anfon amynedd i mi !!!

    Abu Kahlid, sorry I have not answered all your points, I will do so I am not avoiding the issue. I see you have now the facility to quote posts.. Has the problem been fixed or are you using the BB codes in the help section? If its the former then who did you ask? And could you ask them to please fix it for me :) if its the latter then you can appreciate the time it takes to quote, especially if the post is long and many points raised. I also use iPad rather than PC ( as I have been blessed..nay cursed with a windows vista OS) which I have not the wherewithal to upgrade to something useable. So scrolling up and down also takes much time, also it's easy to miss things. Sorry.:) this sounds like I am making excuses, I'm not just asking for your patience.

    There is no need to withdraw from any dialogue, unless you wish to. I have enjoyed reading your posts and I have gleaned much information from you. Maybe we should have another thread..:)


    Abu Loren, wee bit disappointed in your tone but never the mind. Generalisation is not helpful, shame I seem to be the only Christian member here..why is that? Maybe I am more thick skinned than most..or just stubborn. Try to win people over by being polite!!! That is unfair, as I am always polite ..it's how I am, at least I always try to be polite even when I am shown rudeness which I have experienced on here. I have always been honest in my intentions and have said often enough why I joined here.

    For me it is about mutual understanding, telling me to read this or watch that is all very well, but I could do that anywhere. I am not totally ignorant of Islam, but obviously do not view it in the same light as you as a Muslim does, I have to refer to my scriptures because that is what I hold true from my God, so that is my base..naturally I compare the Quran to such as I already have, my Bible.

    I know this is impolite of me to say but Abu Loren you may have once been a Christian but at times it does seem that you have a confused knowledge of the Holy Bible. Maybe as from a catholic background it was taught differently to you, it obviously did not make any sense to you otherwise you would not have felt the need to seek spiritual fulfilment in Islam. See I think we seek and Our God shows, I search hard other faiths simply to understand the better how different people see Our God, I always come home to where Our God tells me, the Holy Bible. For you, and others like you, who cannot find his message there he sends you on your path to Islam.

    We all do his will, weather we know it or not, we are all where we are meant to be. :)

    Peace and blessing. C
  7. Mahzala
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    Mahzala فَتَبَارَكَ اللَّهُ أَحْسَنُ الْخَالِقِينَ

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    Cariad, apologies for the intrusion, as you're addressing the brother, however, I always wondered at why you couldn't quote posts, because to me, it appeared something very hard to miss, but seeing you've mentioned you use the iPad, makes sense. I also don't have the quoting option, as well as many others, on my iPad, but do on my laptop. Just letting you know you're not the only one and that the glitch lies in and depends on the device.
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  8. Cariad
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    Cariad Junior Member

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    This may be how you see prophets in Islam but the Holy Bible gives more of a "warts and all" approach. Firstly Moses, killing the Egyptian, it does not imply that it was an accident and Moses sought to cover up his crime and only fled after he realised he had been seen. Weather or not he was considered to be a prophet at this time is a bit of a moot point as Moses had been chosen to do Gods will at birth, he may not have been aware of it yet, but nevertheless a sin is a sin before God.

    Worse sin than that, was his disobedience to God. In Exodus we read God commands Moses to strike a rock, and promises to make water flow in the desert for the people after wondering the wilderness with no water whilst leading the people to the promised land. Later on, God tells Moses to speak to a rock, promising to make water flow in the desert again. However, Moses strikes the rock again instead of speaking to it. Because of just this one thing, God tells Moses that he will no longer be permitted bring the people into the Promised Land.

    Why was the punishment so harsh for what seems like a small infraction? Was there something greater or more symbolic going on here?

    Exodus 17:6
    Behold, I will stand before you there on the rock at Horeb, and you shall strike the rock, and water shall come out of it, and the people will drink.” And Moses did so, in the sight of the elders of Israel.

    Again in Numbers we see..

    Numbers 20:8-12
    “Take the staff, and assemble the congregation, you and Aaron your brother, and tell the rock before their eyes to yield its water. So you shall bring water out of the rock for them and give drink to the congregation and their cattle.” 9 And Moses took the staff from before the Lord, as he commanded him. 10 Then Moses and Aaron gathered the assembly together before the rock, and he said to them, “Hear now, you rebels: shall we bring water for you out of this rock?” 11 And Moses lifted up his hand and struck the rock with his staff twice, and water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their livestock. 12 And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “Because you did not believe in me, to uphold me as holy in the eyes of the people of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land that I have given them.”

    Like the forefathers of those who eventually ended up in the Promised Land, Moses's problem was that he failed to trust in his Lord God. Moses' problem wasn't that he misinterpreted God or thought that since he'd hit the rock before that it was okay to do it again. Rather, Moses was utterly rejecting God and trying to take control.

    Moses was violent. He struck the rock twice when God just said to speak to it.
    Moses was usurping God's place. He said to the people, "hear now, you rebels: shall we bring water for you out of this rock?" Moses didn't say "God will bring water out of this rock for you." He took God's place and assured them that he would do it for them. Moses totally failed to trust God for the life-supplying water. He tried to take matters into his own hands. He was supposed the be the leader, but also the servant of God. He tried to usurp God's place.

    David, was guilty of adultery with Bathsheba and also the planned murder of her husband in battle among other things. But that was a sin through lust, he was also guilty of disobeying God and doubting him. I will have to go into this more fully another time as time is short for me now, if you wish for ref. also if there is any point you feel I have missed or not answered please do say and I shall endeavour to answer to the best of my ability. Take into account I am only a regular person and not an expert on theology or anything. :)

    Peace and blessings. C
  9. Hassan
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    Hassan Laa ilaha ilaa Allah Staff Member

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    Translated "God in heaven will send me patience"
    Ahaan! That would make sense...
  10. Cariad
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    Cariad Junior Member

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    Oh thank you so much :) it's clear now. I was sure I had the facility before the forum changed to its present style, maybe now the iPad won't support it. I shall muddle on with the BB codes then. Trust me its less painful than windows vista.. ;) :D

    Many thanks and blessings to you. C x
  11. Cariad
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    Cariad Junior Member

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    I was impatient.. Sorry I should have given the English.. :) :D
  12. Mahzala
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    Mahzala فَتَبَارَكَ اللَّهُ أَحْسَنُ الْخَالِقِينَ

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    The iPad doesn't have the search option, neither emoticons/smileys, nor the sidebars, which are only displayed when you follow the prompt to do so. Also, seeing the site on an iPhone or any other smartphone is a whole different ... Erm what say, glitch? The full site option used to be there, but I can't seem to find it.

    But hey, talking of quoting, you're doing it quite alright ... :)
  13. Hassan
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    Hassan Laa ilaha ilaa Allah Staff Member

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    lol. no worries. I was just nosey to know what you said, and now I know, I thought to share it.
  14. AbuKhalid
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    I didnt know how to quote before but I was directed to the help section ... Thx for the help guys!

    This doesnt mean that you you can't approach the info in an unbiased way ... being neutral is crucial in understanding others, doesn't mean you are giving up your beliefs ... it just means you understand more the other side.

    well, if that makes sense to you ... but I would question why moses didnt fail in trusting God when he was told to deliver the message to the pharoah, when he was supposed to free his people not with an army but as one man, when he reached the red sea, when his poeple committed idolatry later on ... all that and where he failed is about striking a rock?? who is a prophet then, if he's someone who doesnt trust God? That would be some questions i'd ask ... not you?

    There are lots of points brought up, and I too am quite busy these days ... you did mention about prophet Lot in Islam offering his daughters and so on but these claims have been refuted ... only a few 'evangelical' websites are still clinging to these like gold.

    Last point, why would Islam not have the "warts and all" like the bible stories of prophets? If anything, a christian would think that muslims would be more than happy to lower other prophets statuses. But also, why does the bible have all these immoral stories about pious people? would these prophets even pass the bible's test?/

    Sorry last last point ...
    "Whoever is an enemy to Jibrael (Gabriel) (let him die in his fury), for indeed he has brought it (this Qur'ân) down to your heart by Allâh's Permission, confirming what came before it [i.e. the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] and guidance and glad tidings for the believers." 2:97

    The Quran clarifies and corrects the previous scripture ... but you reject that test ... you dont want it any clearer

    The Quran doesnt deny crucifixion ... rather it denies Jesus being crucified

  15. Abu Loren
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    Abu Loren Defender of Islam!

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    I'm really sorry if my tone was a disappoint for you, I was just being very honest and sometimes sincerity can seem a bit cruel without intending it to be. If you go back read my posts you will see that I too was polite and civil. In Shaa Allah I will strive for politeness and good speech otherwise I would be disobeying the Prophet (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam).


    You are right. I did not find spiritual fulfillment in Christianity and therefore I sought alternative ways to God and Alhamdulilah I have found it in Islam. You, on the other hand, seem to be happy and content with Christianity and kudos to you for that. (I don't know what kudos to you means though but I'll still use it here).

    As I've said before, my imaan keeps growing on a daily basis by reading a translation of the Qur'an, the Hadiths and the Seera of Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam).
  16. AbuKhalid
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    Being content with one's faith is not proof of its correctness. I've had Hindus tell me that, atheists, a buddhist etc ... we can agree they can't all be right since the beliefs contradict each other. The Quran asks to reflect and question and check ... and not to settle with blind faith. May I ask, If you sought hard about Islam ... what did you understand about Allah?
  17. Abu Loren
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    Abu Loren Defender of Islam!

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    The killing was an accident and also Musa (Alayhi Salaam) had to be taken away from Egypt.

    I believe the Qur'an which says that Musa (Alayhi Salaam) did what he was told to do.

    It wasn't Musa (Alayhi Salaam) who didn't trust in God but the Children of Israel.

    This is just your opinion. Musa (Alayhi salaam) was denied entry to the Promised Land because that whole generation transgressed, so when they all died off the Children of israel were finally given a land to live on.

    Sahih International
    Be patient over what they say and remember Our servant, David, the possessor of strength; indeed, he was one who repeatedly turned back [to Allah ]. 38:17
  18. Seeking Allah's Mercy
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    Seeking Allah's Mercy Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!

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    Assalamo`Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakaatuh,

    May Allah reward you and increase you in perseverance and imaan. Doing Dawah test patience like nothing else. If you don't mind brother, I would like to ask you a question as you say you are an ex-christian. How does "extremely" sinful humans being prophets or representatives of Allah fit into a Christians mind? I mean how did you work out the two opposites. Being a "very" sinful, desire followers, adulterer, idol worshipper and a caller to Allah. How does it add up?

    I've read the various version of the story of Da'wood Alahisalaam, the christian version being the first to be read. Then the three scholarly interpretations of his very short story mentioned in surah saad. Right from the beginning I have trouble understanding how can people believe the All Knowing Allah send to His people, say, an idol worshipper for guidance, for example?

    It's like Yushva Evans said, if I existed back then (in the biblical story scenario)I would have asked them to stay away from me and my wife, actually.

    May Allah send our peace and blessing upon all our prophets, who were all maa'soom and free of any blame.

    P.S. Hi cariad, welcome to the forums. (apologies for not doing this earlier)
  19. Abu Loren
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    Abu Loren Defender of Islam!

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    Wa Alaikkum Asalaam Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

    Well as you can see from the replies of Mrs. Cariad their views are really twisted. Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala tells us in the Qur'an that all of the Messengers and Prophet were righteous human beings. Granted Prophet Musa (Alayhi Salaam) killed a man unintentionally and Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala forgavehim and also Prophet Yunus (Alayhi Salaam) disobeyed Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala by not going where he was told to go. So when he was swallowed by the fish, he cried from the depths of the ocean for forgiveness. If you can imagine the darkness he was in, first of all he was inside a whale, which was at the bottom of the sea. Again Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala forgave him. However, the Christians on the other hand believe that all the Prophets and Messengers were sinners like you and me and still they were chosen by God. But you have to ask yourself the question, will the people believe you or trust you? Would they follow you at times risking their own lives by following the Prophet of God.

    OK let me use this analogy.

    If George Dubya Bush came to us and said that he is now chosen to be the messenger of God how many of you would believe him?

    From what I understand Prophet Dawud (Alayhi Salaam) often sought forgiveness from Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. I don't know if he committed any serious sins. I can only think of the following.

    Sahih International
    And has there come to you the news of the adversaries, when they climbed over the wall of [his] prayer chamber -
    When they entered upon David and he was alarmed by them? They said, "Fear not. [We are] two adversaries, one of whom has wronged the other, so judge between us with truth and do not exceed [it] and guide us to the sound path.
    Indeed this, my brother, has ninety-nine ewes, and I have one ewe; so he said, 'Entrust her to me,' and he overpowered me in speech."
    [David] said, "He has certainly wronged you in demanding your ewe [in addition] to his ewes. And indeed, many associates oppress one another, except for those who believe and do righteous deeds - and few are they." And David became certain that We had tried him, and he asked forgiveness of his Lord and fell down bowing [in prostration] and turned in repentance [to Allah ].
    So We forgave him that; and indeed, for him is nearness to Us and a good place of return.
    38:21-25

    Ameen.
  20. Seeking Allah's Mercy
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    Seeking Allah's Mercy Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!

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    I haven't actually read much of Cariad's posts. My plate is full. I wanted a brief answer from you. Khayr Inshaa`Allah.

    I'm trying to understand here how a Christian justifies it to him/herself.

    Obviously no, no sane person would, but then that's my question. How does a christian balance giving them the elevated position of being Allah's messenger than blame them for so much dirty stuff?


    I'm very clear about these verses. They've been clarified furthur by the `Ulama. It is not right for a muslim to say the underline statement brother. That shows doubt. That is the difference between our belief and the other religions. We have a firm, clear belief that no prophet has ever committed any serious sin.

    These ayah are explained in the following video (in case you haven't watch it):



    Anyway, JazakAllahu khayraa for your time.

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