http://uk.news.yahoo.com/blog/editors_corner/article/1216/
i love this. Brits being treated as how they are treating the others.
IRONY!!!!
i love this. Brits being treated as how they are treating the others.
IRONY!!!!
do well, have well
- Thread starter Shahzad
- Start date
muslimgirl 786
proud M.U.S.L.I.M
hey good post !!!
da britain deserve it
da britain deserve it
ShyHijabi
Junior Member
Salaam,
I think this treatment was wrong. This man serves his country in the armed forces and is being turned away from a hotel because of it? In America this is discrimination and a hotel would be sued into the ground. While I do not agree with my government's actions I do not feel a military personel should be treated poorly because of it. My father was in the Navy and if he was treated like this by an American hotel I would have the owners of said hotel shipped off to a different country. (if I had any say in the matter) Don't like it, leave.
Wasalaam
~Sarah
I think this treatment was wrong. This man serves his country in the armed forces and is being turned away from a hotel because of it? In America this is discrimination and a hotel would be sued into the ground. While I do not agree with my government's actions I do not feel a military personel should be treated poorly because of it. My father was in the Navy and if he was treated like this by an American hotel I would have the owners of said hotel shipped off to a different country. (if I had any say in the matter) Don't like it, leave.
Wasalaam
~Sarah
eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. Doesnt islam says this? where discrimination comes into play here?
They are killing innocent muslims for minerals and oil. And if any 1 of them receive some sort of ill behavior which they do deserve, we say its discrimination.
wow!!
I wonder who has lived in afghanistan or tribal areas of pakistan or who has ever known ground realities abt those areas? If you would, you would not have said such words like "discrimination, sue" etc
They are killing innocent muslims for minerals and oil. And if any 1 of them receive some sort of ill behavior which they do deserve, we say its discrimination.
wow!!
I wonder who has lived in afghanistan or tribal areas of pakistan or who has ever known ground realities abt those areas? If you would, you would not have said such words like "discrimination, sue" etc
xSharingan01x
TraVeLer
:salam2:
It is a matter the Kuffar needs to sort out. It doesn't really concern us if you ask me.
The policy of refusing military personals to check in is strange if you ask me. It doesn't differentiate between the ones that Have "served" or the ones that are simply in the military. It is a clear case of discrimination.
Come on let's be realistic, it's not as if the soldiers have a say in being deployed.
If they refuse, they will be charged and tried in military court.
They are paid to be in the military and they are nothing more than mere pawns for the government.
If a group of them refuse, another group will take their place.
I'm not sympathizing with Kuffar military.
IMO they are fair games, and need to be killed when they are in Muslim countries.
Do realize that they are not Muslims, and thus it is "business as usual" for them.
ShyHijabi
Junior Member
Actually, no, that is from Hammurabi's code of law, not the Quran. If we lived but this motto then the whoel world would be blind and toothless. Saying "a soildier is a soldier" is generalizatin in the extreme. That's ike pointing to suicide bombers and saying, "Well one Muslim is the same as all Muslims, their actions are all identical." So given our logic we should all be punished for the sins of fellow Muslims?
You are totally wrong sister shyhijabi. Soldiers are meant to fight. While an ordinary citizen doesnt.
forgiveness to the killers of innocent? Dont u remember Mohammad bin Qasim attacked sindh on call of a lady named Naheed? why didnt he think that he shud forgive the hindus?
I think you 2 should make a visit to iraq,kashmir or afghanistan or tribal areas of pakistan. you ppl are perhaps living a bit more luxurious life than those. Thats why you cant imagine wats goin on there.
Sorry for the offence but i cant control myself writting these lines
forgiveness to the killers of innocent? Dont u remember Mohammad bin Qasim attacked sindh on call of a lady named Naheed? why didnt he think that he shud forgive the hindus?
I think you 2 should make a visit to iraq,kashmir or afghanistan or tribal areas of pakistan. you ppl are perhaps living a bit more luxurious life than those. Thats why you cant imagine wats goin on there.
Sorry for the offence but i cant control myself writting these lines
ShyHijabi
Junior Member
Salaam,
But of course you can control yourself, you are your own person and in control of your own faculties. If you can't control yourself, then who can? I was raised in South Africa and saw many horrible crimes committed, but I never felt everyone of this or that tribe was the same. Soidiers are not all for killing, my family is three generations of military so I think I know what I am talking about. My father was an air traffic controller for the Navy and his primary job was to make sure the planes didn't crash into each other. I assure you he was not a killer and I take offense that you imply such a thing.
Every person should be held for their own personal actions, not judged off the actions of others. I was beaten and abused by men growing up, should I hate you because of your maleness? Afterall, you are all the same, right? All created to hurt females? Do you see the flaw in this form of broad generalization?
I sense you are very young brother and basically view the world completely in black and white. You will find as you mature and take control of your passions that life is very gray in reality. Rasool understood this and gave us the middle path, mashallah. If he had been as harsh as you then we would never be able to practice Islam. He could fast more, forgive more, pray more, and showed a sublime cleanliness of his heart and physical self. If we had to do everything he did to get to Jennah, we would all be doomed to hell. But Rasool judged every person for their individual self, not from their jobs or tribe.
Wasalaam
~Sarah
xSharingan01x
TraVeLer
Saalam,
I do understand what you mean. But, please do understand that the issue is not whether we are allowed to kill kuffar soldiers in Muslim countries. There is no disagreement when it comes to killing kuffar soldiers in our land.
But, we have to be careful when generalizing, just because the kuffars do it doesn't mean we should do the same.
I will give you an hypothetical scenario.
Is it fair to go to American town and kill a children belonging to a military family, as a response to some innocent Muslims being killed by the Kuffar military in Afghanistan? For all we know, the child's father was never deployed abroad or ever killed anyone. Or even worse, just killing a random civilian in United States?
This is what generalization leads to.
Obviously one would have to take in different circumstances (strength, capabilities, an organized jihad against the enemy, etc etc...)and the Fiqh of Qitaal into consideration before making hasty conclusion.
I have no problem with, let's say killing a Kuffar solider who was responsible for killing a Muslim soul. (Where ever he may be).
Also the case of Israel is different, since they practice conscription every citizen is a "future solider".
Also the case of Mohammed bin Qasim is different. The Muslims were powerful and lead by a Khalifa. It was offensive Qitaal. The campaign by the Muslims in Sindh region also began prior to the incident of "Naheed' as you mentioned. One can argue it began before Muhammad bin Qasim was given the task to conquer Sindh.
Forgive me if I had offended you. It also makes my blood boil to see the situation of our brothers and sisters in those areas. Insha Allah, I will be able to join the struggle.
Salaam,
First, I have been many a place on this planet in my many an odd year. That is what makes my faith firm, including remote places in Pakistan.
Second, we are mixing apples and oranges. A man was slighted in his own country. We were responding to that offense.
Third, as I always write ..it is easy to talk..but we need to lead a life of deeds..Brother please take the anger and find an appopriate outlet. We have to be able to use our intellect to control our passion. This is a particular good month to practice honing that which is the best in us for the use of Islam. Find your individual jihad and honor it. Strive in the cause of Allah subhana talla. But, gain compassion and knowldege. Anger only holds us back.
First, I have been many a place on this planet in my many an odd year. That is what makes my faith firm, including remote places in Pakistan.
Second, we are mixing apples and oranges. A man was slighted in his own country. We were responding to that offense.
Third, as I always write ..it is easy to talk..but we need to lead a life of deeds..Brother please take the anger and find an appopriate outlet. We have to be able to use our intellect to control our passion. This is a particular good month to practice honing that which is the best in us for the use of Islam. Find your individual jihad and honor it. Strive in the cause of Allah subhana talla. But, gain compassion and knowldege. Anger only holds us back.
warda A
Sister
:salam2:
(23 But if any harm follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25 burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
Exodus 21) but I think you still have not read about it in the Quran. Quran also mentions the same law and also mentions that it was ordained for the Bani Israel in the Torah. I am copying the ayat and its explanation from tafsir of Ibn Kathir (RA). One thing that is not mentioned by the brother is what Allah said after this commandment in the same ayah i.e. " But if anyone remits the retaliation by way of charity, it shall be for him an expiation ". It is the 45th ayah of Surah Al-Ma'idah.
The reason for this ayah was the unjustice being done by those who are mighty to those who are weak as at that time many would ask for retaliation and revenge from the same person but if they were the guilty they would say that take my slave instead of me. Thats why it is said that an eye for and eye and tooth for tooth which means the one who committed the crime should be punished in the same way not less not more.
Retaliation for Wounds
I agree that Islam has always encouraged and promoted forgiveness but not at the cost of justice. It gives the oppressed the right to retaliate but at the same time encourages them to forgive.
Allah says,
The recompense for an evil is an evil like thereof, but whoever forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is with Allâh. Verily, He likes not the Zâlimûn (oppressors, polytheists, and wrong-doers). (40)
[Ash-Shura]
Explanation here
Actually Sister you are half correct and half not. Since you have a Jewish background you know that " an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth " is Hammurabi's code of Law which I am sure is derived from the Torah
(23 But if any harm follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25 burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
Exodus 21) but I think you still have not read about it in the Quran. Quran also mentions the same law and also mentions that it was ordained for the Bani Israel in the Torah. I am copying the ayat and its explanation from tafsir of Ibn Kathir (RA). One thing that is not mentioned by the brother is what Allah said after this commandment in the same ayah i.e. " But if anyone remits the retaliation by way of charity, it shall be for him an expiation ". It is the 45th ayah of Surah Al-Ma'idah.
The reason for this ayah was the unjustice being done by those who are mighty to those who are weak as at that time many would ask for retaliation and revenge from the same person but if they were the guilty they would say that take my slave instead of me. Thats why it is said that an eye for and eye and tooth for tooth which means the one who committed the crime should be punished in the same way not less not more.
I have copied only a part of the lengthy detailed discussion there. You can read more about it in details from the following link. Its about a 2-3 page discussion there.
Retaliation for Wounds
I agree that Islam has always encouraged and promoted forgiveness but not at the cost of justice. It gives the oppressed the right to retaliate but at the same time encourages them to forgive.
Allah says,
The recompense for an evil is an evil like thereof, but whoever forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is with Allâh. Verily, He likes not the Zâlimûn (oppressors, polytheists, and wrong-doers). (40)
[Ash-Shura]
Explanation here
ShyHijabi
Junior Member
Salaam,
Brother Moshin, I am aware that the verses exist in the Torah but Hammurabi's code of law was written before the Torah. The Jewish scholars feel that the law may have been added or ammended to the Torah after the Babylonians spread their form of justice.
I agree with you that forgiveness must not be used in place of justice but I hardly feel broad form discrimination can be considered justice.
Wasalaam
~Sarah
Brother Moshin, I am aware that the verses exist in the Torah but Hammurabi's code of law was written before the Torah. The Jewish scholars feel that the law may have been added or ammended to the Torah after the Babylonians spread their form of justice.
I agree with you that forgiveness must not be used in place of justice but I hardly feel broad form discrimination can be considered justice.
Wasalaam
~Sarah
Sister
Though Jewish scholars think otherwise but for a muslim its more than enough that Allah is certifying in the Quran that he himself revealed that ayah in the Torah.
:salam2: Sister
Apart from the verse issue I agree with you that broad or even narrow form of discrimination cannot be considered justice as its opposite of justice. Allah says,
May Allah make it easy for us to follow his deen.
Apart from the verse issue I agree with you that broad or even narrow form of discrimination cannot be considered justice as its opposite of justice. Allah says,
Allah does not let muslims discriminate even if the justice goes againt their ownselved. In another place Allah says,
In this verse Allah told us that be just even if justice favours your enemies. Theres no way for discrimination left for a muslim who hear and obey.
May Allah make it easy for us to follow his deen.
blackivy393
Junior Member
when i was heard this i thought it was interesting. but when i heard the guy had to spend the night in his car that was sad. whatever employee did this was obviously acting on opinion and not policies of the company. just because someone is part of the military doesnt mean they were supportive of the war or even did anything to anyone over there. when you sent your govt makes you go you have to go. there are many people in iraq who dont even want to be there
Salaam,
Black Ivy...I must say that a person has a choice. You do not need to go just because you are sent: when you sent your govt makes you go you have to go. One of my favorite people would be Muhammed Ali. He would not kill. His medals were stripped and he refused to kill for a dishonorable cause.
A human being always has the choice to say no. We make the decision as to whom we will surrender our wills. No authority can make a person surrender. Case in point: Dr. Sami Al-Arian..and the list can go on and on and on and on.
Black Ivy...I must say that a person has a choice. You do not need to go just because you are sent: when you sent your govt makes you go you have to go. One of my favorite people would be Muhammed Ali. He would not kill. His medals were stripped and he refused to kill for a dishonorable cause.
A human being always has the choice to say no. We make the decision as to whom we will surrender our wills. No authority can make a person surrender. Case in point: Dr. Sami Al-Arian..and the list can go on and on and on and on.