EARTH IS NOT ORBITING THE SUN?

Hard Rock Moslem

I'm your brother
Are we being fooled all this while? Is the sun orbiting the earth instead?

Alhamdulillah, yesterday I've got chance to meet one Indonesian born sheikh, spoke with him for 2-3 hours.

We spoke on various topics, I took the opportunity to clarify a lot of things from him, he is very knowledgeable sheikh in Islamic falak.

The last part, he explained to me about tafsir of the Yassin, 36:40. According to him, the sun is actually going around the earth, moving in S formation around earth.

He said, there are two theories,

1) "geocentrism" i.e earth at the centre, the sun goes around the earth in it's orbit.

2) "heliocentrism" in which earth and other planets go around the sun which the sun believes to be in stationary.

He said, if we believe the 2nd theory, we will contradicts many hadiths and also the above Quranic verses which says the sun and the moon are revolving around in their respective orbit. Which also means the earth is static.

Is there any other source to verify the above?
 

Seeking Allah's Mercy

Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!
Asalamoalaikom wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

It will be interesting to get more information on this topic. All I can add to it is that the Sun is not stationary.
 

Hatty

Junior Member
No it does not mean the earth is static. The Kuran is silent on this information. So it could be static or it could be moving.

But according to the verse you cited:

It is not allowable for the sun to reach the moon, nor does the night overtake the day, but each, in an orbit, is swimming. Quran (36:40)

It gives information that the sun is moving in an orbit.

Can you please share with us all the Hadeeths and verses which deal with this subject....

thank you brother....May Allah reward you....
 

Perseveranze

Junior Member
Asalaamu Alaikum,



64
﴿33﴾ وَهُوَ الَّذِي خَلَقَ اللَّيْلَ وَالنَّهَارَ وَالشَّمْسَ وَالْقَمَرَ كُلٌّ فِي فَلَكٍ يَسْبَحُونَ

33. “ And He it is Who created the night and the day and the sun and the moon. They float, each in an orbit.”

Commentary:

This verse has referred to the creation of the night and the day as well as the creation of the sun and moon. It says:

“ And He it is Who created the night and the day and the sun and the moon. They float, each in an orbit.”

The commentators of the Qur’ān have different opinions upon the interpretation of the sentence: “They float, each in an orbit”. But what agrees with the conclusive researches of scholars is the fact that: the purpose of the motion of the sun, in the abovementioned verse, is either a circular motion rotating around itself, or the motion it has in the whole solar system.
It is also necessary to be mentioned that the Arabic word /kūll/ (each), mentioned in the verse, may refer to the moon, the sun, and also the stars all together. This meaning is understood from the word /layl/ (the night) recited in this holy verse.
Some great commentators have also said that mentioning ‘the night’, ‘the day’, ‘the sun’, and ‘the moon’ in the verse may refer to the four seasons. For, the night, which is in fact the conical shadow of the earth, has also an orbit for itself. If a person from outside of the atmosphere looks from a distance at it, he will see that this conical dark shadow is constantly running around the earth. He will also see that the light of the

65 sun, which shines upon the earth and produces the day, is like a cylinder that ceaselessly rotates around this glob. Therefore, the day and the night each has a line and place for itself.
Some others have said that the objective of the motion of the sun, here, is the motion created by our feeling, for, to the consideration of the observers of the earth, it seems that the sun and the moon both are moving.

This is part of the beauty of this book, and only the one who Created this universe could have written it this way.

Here is the verse as it is in arabic:

وَهُوَ الَّذِي خَلَقَ اللَّيْلَ وَالنَّهَارَ وَالشَّمْسَ وَالْقَمَرَ ۖ كُلٌّ فِي فَلَكٍ يَسْبَحُونَ

The word here used is falak, coming from the root fa la ka. It is amazing that this word in particular is translated both as 'revolving' and 'circular' and you can see how the word fits both the decsription of 'al layl' (the night) and 'al nahar' (the day), as well as the relationship of the al shams (the sun) and al qamar (the moon).

What really hit me is the word used at the end, 'yasbahoon' coming from sa ba ha which simultaneously can mean either 'things that are floating' and also 'traveling/going far' links gorgeously with the word before, because another meaning of falak is an ark or ship.

I have only just began to breakdown this verse, and already this is way beyond the abililty of anyone I know to put words together like this in arabic.

Also, if you look at the string of the way the words are mentioned the word for sun and moon are a contrast to those of us on earth the same way night and day are. I won't get into this because I think just the two previous words showed how extraordinary the writing is, but as for the point you made, I can see nothing in this verse indicating that the orbits are the sun around the moon or vice versa.

Hope that helped.
 

Hatty

Junior Member
Thanks brother for the explanation. I would like to just add that the Arabic word yasbahoon also means "they are swimming".

This gives the meaning that the sun and the moon are swimming in a medium similar to the way we swim in the sea. this medium has its own properties and physical laws, as the sea water has its own properties. and likewise, we swim-walking on earth in the air that Allah has created.
 

Hard Rock Moslem

I'm your brother
Some of the Quranic verses concerning the sun and the moon revolving in its orbit:

Ibrahim, 14:33

Ar-Rahman, 55:5

Ar-Ra'd, 13:2

Hadith:

I entered the mosque while Allah's Apostle was sitting there. When the sun had set, the Prophet said, "O abu dharr! Do you know where this (sun) goes?" I said, "Allah and His Apostle know best." He said, "It goes and asks permission to prostrate, and it is allowed, and (one day) it, as if being ordered to return whence it came, then it will rise from the west." Then the Prophet recited, "That: "And the sun runs on its fixed course (for a term decreed)," (36.38) as it is recited by 'Abdullah. (Source: http://www.sahih-bukhari.com/Pages/results.php5)

You can read here for the explanation on the above hadith:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/sunrise_sunset_hadiths.htm

http://www.livingislam.org/n/hc_e.html
 

Islam!!yay

Junior Member
:salam2:

Ok brothers.Its good that we are bring up all the Hadiths to explain the motion of the sun.But from An astronomical point of view. The sun DOES have an orbit, but not around our planet but around the Galaxy.You see at the center of our galaxy astronomers believe that theres a "super-massive black hole".Our sun goes around this black hole.All stars in the galaxy do.So moons go around planets planets go around the sun and sun goes around the super-massive black-hole.ALLAHU AKBAR.I heard it takes the sun around 200-250 million years to make one complete rotation.For more information, you can refer here Al Hamdulilah.The Quran is indeed from Allah SWT and its very beautiful. La Illaha Ilal Allah wa Mohamedan Rasullalah!!!

http://www.universetoday.com/30710/galaxy-rotation/

And according to answering-christianity's website, It states that whenever Prophet Mohamed PBUH describes the motion of the sun , he PBUH was not trying to prove or say anything scientifc."So the Prophet wasn't really trying to prove a scientific theory here, even though his statements above don't make much scientific sense as far as our astronomists today would be concerned, because of the sun going underneath the throne of Allah Almighty and prostrating to Him and seeking His permission, etc.... But, nonetheless, his statements above are not in HOSTILITY with science either, because no where did the Prophet, for instance, say that the sun goes through a hole on earth (as the Hindu scriptures say), nor did he say that the sun goes UNDER THE EARTH! He said that the sun goes underneath the throne of Allah Almighty, prostrates to Him and seeks His permission, which again proves my point about the Prophet wasn't trying to say a scientific statement more than he was trying to really Glorify and Praise Allah Almighty as much as possible through his metaphoric speech. The clear-cut proof regarding his speech being metaphoric is the fact that he said that the sun prostrates to Allah Almighty, which is obviously different from how we, humans, prostrate to the Almighty GOD.

I believe why Allah SWT does not mention the sun's rotation around the galaxy was because maybe people at the time of the Prophet PBUH believed that sun did rotate around the earth and if the Quran mentions that the earth rotates around the sun , it would have lead a lot people astray or maybe not that many people would come to Islam because of that scientific fact.So the Quran stays silent in this. So whatever the era , The Quran will always be scientifically correct.Do you guys understand what im trying to say? Insha'Allah you will be able to.

May Allah SWT Forgive me If I have said something wrong or inaccurate. And Allah SWT Knows Best.Allahu Akbar.
 

Hard Rock Moslem

I'm your brother
Thank you for your responding. I wish more response because I'm not good in this part.

From below verses, it is pretty clear that the Earth is rotating,

"Thou seest the mountains and thinkest them firmly fixed: but they pass like the passing of the clouds: (such is) the artistry of God, who disposes of all things in perfect order: for he is well acquainted with all that ye do.*! (The Noble Quran, 27:88)"

and all things in space are move in its orbit,

"Thou seest the mountains and thinkest them firmly fixed: but they pass like the passing of the clouds: (such is) the artistry of God, who disposes of all things in perfect order: for he is well acquainted with all that ye do.*! (The Noble Quran, 27:88)"

According to this website:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/earth_rotation.htm

But is the Earth orbit around the sun? Science says yes but no proven test done. The sheikh said no. Hope someone can clarify in simple language. Jazakallah khayran.
 

Tomtom

Banned
As'alaamu Alaikkum,

There is no way the Sun could orbit the Earth because of gravity. The Earth has to orbit the Sun because of it's size, large objects such as the Sun 'attract' smaller objects such as the planets. To maintain the equilibrium the planets are spaced out at an exact distance that it is impossible for it to have happened by accident. Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala tells us that He hold everything in place and that He expands the universe by His Mighty hands.

Let's take the verse in question and to understand it you must look at the preceding verses also.

Muhsin Khan
And a sign for them is the night, We withdraw therefrom the day, and behold, they are in darkness.
And the sun runs on its fixed course for a term (appointed). That is the Decree of the All-Mighty, the All-Knowing.
And the moon, We have measured for it mansions (to traverse) till it returns like the old dried curved date stalk.
It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor does the night outstrip the day. They all float, each in an orbit.


So verse 40 is telling us that the Sun could never rise at night because He has appointed DAY and NIGHT for the benefit of mankind.

Tasfir for verse 40 tells us


* تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn
{ لاَ ٱلشَّمْسُ يَنبَغِي لَهَآ أَن تدْرِكَ ٱلقَمَرَ وَلاَ ٱلَّيلُ سَابِقُ ٱلنَّهَارِ وَكُلٌّ فِي فَلَكٍ يَسْبَحُونَ }

It does not behove — it is [neither] facilitated nor is it right for — the sun to catch up with the moon, and so appear together with it at night, nor may the night outrun the day, and thus it [the night] never arrives before the latter ends and each (kullun: the nunation compensates for the [missing] genitive annexation [that would have been constructed] with al-shams, ‘the sun’, al-qamar, ‘the moon’, and al-nujūm, ‘the stars’) [of these] is in an orbit, swimming, moving — these [celestial bodies] are being treated as [though they were] rational beings.

There are no indications anywhere in the Holy Qur'an that the Sun orbits the Earth, or vise versa.
 

Hassan

Laa ilaha ilaa Allah
Staff member
:wasalam:
It is only convenience to say the Earth orbits the Sun, but not strictly what Scientists mean. Because the Sun has most of the mass in the Solar System, the barycenter (point of rotation) is inside it, but not at the very centre as you may imagine. The Sun also orbits around this point. Technically speaking, to a scientist, the Sun, Earth, Moon, other planets and rocks - they all orbit each other.

Also, the Sun is moving through space, so the actual paths of orbit are neither circles or ellipses but spirals.

I hope this helps, inshAllah. Anything correct is from Allah swt, anything incorrect is from me.
 

Tomtom

Banned
Further to Zoar's comment...

The Apex of the Sun's Way, or the solar apex, is the direction that the Sun travels through space in the Milky Way. The general direction of the Sun's galactic motion is towards the star Vega near the constellation of Hercules, at an angle of roughly 60 sky degrees to the direction of the Galactic Center. The Sun's orbit around the galaxy is expected to be roughly elliptical with the addition of perturbations due to the galactic spiral arms and non-uniform mass distributions. In addition, the Sun oscillates up and down relative to the galactic plane approximately 2.7 times per orbit. This is very similar to how a simple harmonic oscillator works with no drag force (damping) term. These oscillations were until recently thought to coincide with mass extinction periods on Earth.[73] However, a reanalysis of the effects of the Sun's transit through the spiral structure based on CO data has failed to find these correlations.[74]
Wikipedia
 

Hard Rock Moslem

I'm your brother
Thanks for your input brother Tomtom and Zoar.

We can't totally reject scientific findings if they are in line with Islam. But we also have to see our scholars view. Hence I picked up below scholarly view on the subject from another website:

Quote

Ash-Shaykh Muhammad bin Saalih al-`Uthaymeen (rahimahullaah)

Question: Does the sun revolve around the earth?

Answer: It is apparent from the Islaamic evidences that they confirm that it is the sun which revolves around the earth, and by its revolving the alternation of night and day takes place on the surface of the earth. It is not for us to exceed the apparent meanings of these evidences without some evidence stronger than that, which permits us to explain them differently from their apparent meaning. Among the proofs that the sun revolves around the earth in a manner which causes the alternation of the night and day are the following:


1) Allaah, the Most High says, that when Ibraaheem (`alayhi as-Salaam), disputed with the one who argued with him concerning his Lord:


"Verily, Allah brings the sun form the east; then bring it you from the west."

[Soorah al-Baqarah 2:258]


2) He also tells us that Ibraaheem (`alayhi as-Salaam) said:


"When he saw the sun rising up, he said: 'This is my lord. This is greater.' But when it set, he said: 'O my people! I am indeed free from all that you join as partners (in worship with Allaah)."

[Soorah al-An`aam 6:78]


So He described the settings as an attribute of the sun and not that the earth set upon it, for if it was the earth which revolved, He would have said: but when (the earth) set upon it.

3) Allaah the Most High says:

"And you might have seen, the sun, when it rose, declining to the right from their Cave, and when it set, turning away from them to the left."

[Soorah al-Kahf 18:17]


He has described the declining and turning away as descriptions of the sun, and that is a proof that the movement was from the sun. If it was a description of the earth, He would have said: Their Cave declined from it. Likewise, describing the sun as rising and setting proves that it is the sun which revolves, even though the indication of the may be less than the indication in His Words: "declining" and "turning away from them."

4) Allaah, the Most High says:

"And He it is Who has created the night and the day, and the sun, and the moon, each in an orbit floating."

[Soorah al-Anbiyaaa' 21:33]

Ibn `Abbaas (radhiallaahu `anhu) said: "They revolve in an orbit, like the turning of a mill. This was widely reported from him.

5) Allaah, the Most High says:

"He brings the night as a cover over the day, seeking it rapidly."


[Soorah al-Ara'af 7:54]


He described the night as seeking the day, and the seeker rushes and overtakes, and it is well known that the night and the day follow the sun.

6) Allaah, the Most High says:

"He has created the heavens and the earth with truth. He makes the night to go in the day and makes the day to go in the night. And He has subjected the sun and the moon. Each running (on a fixed course) for an appointed term. Verily, He is the All-Mighty, the Oft-Forgiving."



[Soorah az-Zumar 39:5]


and His Words:

"He makes the night to go in the day" that is, it turns around it, as a turban is wrapped around, which proves the revolving of the night and the day around the earth. If it were the earth which revolved around them, He would have said: He causes the earth to revolve around the night and day.

And in His words:

"the sun and the moon, each running (on a fixed course)." It is clear from what precedes it that it is a proof that the sun and the moon move in a perceptible orbit, because subjecting something which moves to its movement is more apparent than subjecting something stationary which does not move.

7) Allaah, the Most High say:

"By the sun and its brightness. By the moon as it follows it (the sun)."

[Soorah ash-Shams 91:1-2]


And the meaning of: "follows it" is that 'it comes after it' and this is a proof of their moving and revolving around the earth, for if it were the earth which revolved around them, the moon would not be following the sun; rather it would sometimes be following it and sometimes it would be followed by it, because the sun is higher than it. And deduction from this verse requires study and reflection.

8) Allaah, the Most High say:

"And the sun runs o*n its fixed course for a term {appointed}. That is the Decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing. And the moon, We have measured for it mansions {to traverse} till it returns like the old dried date stalk. It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor does the night outstrip the day. They all float, each in an orbit."

[Soorah Ya-Seen 36:38-40]


So, attributing the movement to the sun and describing it as a Decree from the Almighty, Most Wise proves that it is a real movement with a far-reaching Decree, since the consequence of it is the alternation of the night and day and the seasons.

The measure of the moon's mansions (i.e., stations) is a proof that it traverses them, for if it was the earth which revolves , the measuring of the mansions would be for the earth's movement around the moon and not for the moon's movement around it.

And negating the sun's ability to overtake the moon, and the night's ability to outstrip the day are evidence of the rushing movement on the part of the sun and the moon, and the night and the day.

9) The Prophet (sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam) said to Aboo Tharr (radhiallaahu `anhu), when the sun had just set: "Do you know where it goes?" He said, "Allaah and His Messenger knows best." He (sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam) said: "Verily, it goes (i.e., travels) and it prostrates beneath the Throne and seeks permission to rise, and permission is granted to it. Then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but will not be permitted, but it will be ordered: Return from whence you came, and so it will rise in the West."

[Reported by al-Bukhaaree in the Book of the Beginning of Creation, in the Chapter: Description of the Sun and the Moon (#3199), and by Muslim in the Book of Faith, in the Chapter: Explanation of the Time when Faith will not be accepted (#159)].

So and it is extremely clear from his words: Return from whence you came that it revolves around the earth and through its revolving the sunrise and sunset occur.

10) It is clear from the many ahaadeeth which attribute rising, setting, and declining from its zenith to the sun, that it is the sun which does so and so and the earth.

Unquote
 

Shak78

Junior Member
:salam2:

The Sun orbits the center of the galaxy which is a super-massive black hole, the earth and other 8 planets (Pluto will always be a planet to me) orbit the sun. The moon orbits the Earth. The more massive an object is the stronger it's gravity, thus Jupiter has a ton of moons. The Sun does not orbit the earth. In other galaxies you can see planets orbiting their parent stars as well through telescopes and time lapsed photos.

http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=481
 

Tomtom

Banned
7) Allaah, the Most High say:

"By the sun and its brightness. By the moon as it follows it (the sun)."

[Soorah ash-Shams 91:1-2]


And the meaning of: "follows it" is that 'it comes after it' and this is a proof of their moving and revolving around the earth, for if it were the earth which revolved around them, the moon would not be following the sun; rather it would sometimes be following it and sometimes it would be followed by it, because the sun is higher than it. And deduction from this verse requires study and reflection.

I beg to differ on the above point brother. I think you have mis-understood the verse 91:1-2 because 'follow's in this context means that the moon MUST follow the sun at night. The sun and the moon are following each other, in other words the sun shows up during the day and the moon follows it at night. Allah says in one of the ayas that the sun gives light during the day so that men can toil and the night for rest.
 

alf2

Islam is a way of life
Not to derail the thread, but black holes scare me. Can we get sucked in? *goes to research this black hole*
 

Tomtom

Banned
lol alf2 black holes should scare everybody, they are huge they eat millions of stars for breakfast.
But be assured of the fact that we human beings will be here on this earth until Allah Subhana Wa T'ala ends it all with the Final Day! This day is unimaginable as some people will just die of fright. Let's just hope that our descendants are God fearing.
 

Hard Rock Moslem

I'm your brother
7) I beg to differ on the above point brother. I think you have mis-understood the verse 91:1-2 because 'follow's in this context means that the moon MUST follow the sun at night. The sun and the moon are following each other, in other words the sun shows up during the day and the moon follows it at night. Allah says in one of the ayas that the sun gives light during the day so that men can toil and the night for rest.

If you are addressing me, actually it was Ash-Shaykh Muhammad bin Saalih al-`Uthaymeen (rahimahullaah) response to the question not me. I think he is in the better position to tafseer the verse.
 

Tomtom

Banned
ok brother but here's the tasfir.



* تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn
{ وَٱلْقَمَرِ إِذَا تَلاَهَا }

and [by] the moon when it follows her, rising after she has set,
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

This is one of the most interesting threads we have had on TTI in a while.

Now...break it down for me...am I correct in understanding all the stuff I thought I had learned in the textbooks is just theory.

Yes, I understand the expanding universe in motion...but what are you guys really saying? The sun is not the center of the solar system? You mean the Greeks had it right?
 
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