French pool bars Muslim woman for 'burquini' suit

Musulmanin

Junior Member
By MARIA DANILOVA, Associated Press Writer Maria Danilova, Associated Press Writer

PARIS – A Muslim woman garbed in a head-to-toe swimsuit — dubbed a "burquini" — may have opened a new chapter in France's tussle between religious practices and its stern secular code.

Officials insisted Wednesday they banned the woman's use of the Islam-friendly suit at a local pool because of France's pool hygiene standards — not out of hostility to overtly Muslim garb.

Under the policy, swimmers are not allowed in pools with baggy clothing, including surfer-style shorts. Only figure-hugging suits are permitted.

Nonetheless the woman, a 35-year-old convert to Islam identified only as Carole, complained of religious discrimination after trying to go swimming in a "burquini," a full-body swimsuit, in the town of Emerainville, southeast of Paris.

She was quoted as telling the daily Le Parisien newspaper that she had bought the burquini after deciding "it would allow me the pleasure of bathing without showing too much of myself, as Islam recommends."

"For me this is nothing but segregation," she said.

The issue of religious attire is a hot topic in France, where head-to-toe burqas or other full-body coverings worn by some Muslim fundamentalists are in official disfavor.

France is home to western Europe's largest Muslim population, estimated at 5 million, and Islam is the nation's second religion after Roman Catholicism.

A 2004 law banning the wearing of Muslim head scarves at public schools sparked fierce debate. That legislation also banned Jewish skullcaps and large Christian crosses in public classrooms.

French lawmakers recently revived the issue of Muslim dress with a proposal that the burqa and other voluminous Muslim attire be banned.

President Nicolas Sarkozy, a conservative, backs the move, saying such garb makes women prisoners.

The "burquini" covers the arms to the wrists and the legs to the ankle and has a hood to cover neck and hair.

An official in charge of swimming pools for the Emerainville region, Daniel Guillaume, said the refusal to allow the local woman to swim in her "burquini" had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with public health standards.

"These clothes are used in public, so they can contain molecules, viruses, et cetera, which will go in the water and could be transmitted to other bathers," Guillaume said in a telephone interview. ***Is this a joke? .***

"We reminded this woman that one should not bathe all dressed, just as we would tell someone who is a nudist not to bathe all naked," he said.

Guillaume said France's public health standards require all pool-goers to don swimsuits for women and tight, swimming briefs for men — and caps to cover their hair. Bathers also must shower before entering the water.

Guillaume said Carole had tried to file a complaint at a local police station, but her request was turned down as groundless.

Carole told the daily Le Parisien she would protest with the help of anti-discrimination groups.

Emerainville Mayor Alan Kelyor said he could not understand why the woman would want to swim in head-to-toe clothes.

"We are going back in civilization," he said by telephone. Women have fought for decades for equal rights with men, he said. "Now we are putting them back in burqas and veils."

The suits have a clear market.

Women "jump on the occasion so they can swim with their families. Otherwise, they end up staying on the beach and watching," said Leila Mouhoubia, who runs an online site from France that specializes in the sale of Islamic swimsuits. Sales, she said, are strong.

"I think it's forbidden (in France) because it presents an image of the Muslim woman (and) they have prejudices against Muslims," she said by telephone. "They want women to be undressed."

Mouloud Aounit, head of the anti-racism group known as MRAP, said the decision to ban Carole from the pool appeared fair, since pool authorities were observing regulations. But Aounit lamented that the incident was likely to fuel religious tensions.

"The rules must be the same for everybody, regardless of the color of their skin or their religion," Aounit said. "The concern I have is that this case will again lead to stigmatization of the Muslim population in France."

The all-body suits, worn regularly by some women in Muslim countries, are growing popular in the West. They can be seen on female Muslim lifeguards on Australian beaches, in the United States and various European countries, from the Netherlands to Sweden — which OKed them after two women won discrimination cases last year.
 

DanyalSAC

Junior Member
The issue of religious attire is a hot topic in France, where head-to-toe burqas or other full-body coverings worn by some Muslim fundamentalists are in official disfavor.

One thing that so many forget is that its not just "Muslim fundamentalists" (whatever that means) that are in "official disfavor". Check out some of the rallys that are going on in France, you will see traditionalist Catholic nuns standing shoulder to shoulder with our Muslim sisters protesting the bans. The nuns' habits are also being forbidden on federal property. They cover their heads and the shapes of their bodies as well.
 

kayleigh

Junior Member
Under the policy, swimmers are not allowed in pools with baggy clothing, including surfer-style shorts. Only figure-hugging suits are permitted.

If this is true and if this policy is enforced across the board, then this is NOT religious discrimination. However, I fail to see what that has to do with hygiene. But I have a serious problem with the mayors comments.

Burkinis aren't exactly modest in the first place.
 

poetic

mrs aisha b
Hmm, well not being a Muslim, I do not personally agree with the Islamic ideas of modesty. However, if what you say is the case, and this 'Burqini' is not modest by Islamic standards, then it seems to me that it is the worst of BOTH worlds. It does not conform to Islamic standards of modesty, and it also severely impairs swimming ability. The more fabric and the looser fabric is, the worse the ability to swim.

So I utterly fail to understand the point of this sort of swimsuit. I suspect it is an invention of the same sort of idiots who reduce the physical standards that must be met by female firefighters and policemen.

BTW, oddly enough, I read an article once that said that SWIMMING might be the only sport where all the records will someday likely be held mostly by women. A woman's lower body strength is not much less than a man's, and for reasons having to do with having less body hair, more fat, and a more streamlined shape, a woman's body goes throught the water easier than a man's does.

Salaam Alaikum

Those swim suits are made out of very special material that does not feel heavy when wet.. It can show your figure depending on the size you buy, and its probably best to stay away from anything that could show your body shape. But at the same time for someone who has enjoyed swimming, reverts usually enjoy swimming from their past..this is a good way to continue swimming in a more modest way. Instead of wearing a t-shirt over (some people do this thinking its more modest, but showing your legs is not modest,plus t-shirts turn see through) Your covering everything so no one can see the details, its better to wear this "Burqini" than a BIKINI!
 

q8penpals

Junior Member
One thing that so many forget is that its not just "Muslim fundamentalists" (whatever that means) that are in "official disfavor". Check out some of the rallys that are going on in France, you will see traditionalist Catholic nuns standing shoulder to shoulder with our Muslim sisters protesting the bans. The nuns' habits are also being forbidden on federal property. They cover their heads and the shapes of their bodies as well.

Salam

I was just going to post something similar - nuns have it bad in France as well. I think the French government is just a bit looney! :SMILY27:

On another note - there are several different types of Muslim woman swimsuits on the market. I actually have the ORIGINAL burkini (as opposed to everyone lumping a full-coverage swimsuit into one lump and calling them ALL burkinis). There are some of these suits that literally are like wearing a track-suit with a hood (same fabric and everything) which CAN be very dangerous (I have seen women in them literally just slogging through the shallow water with their children. However, the actual Burkini (the one that is the brand name that I have and is the one worn by the life guards) is made from swimsuit material, and is very, VERY easy to swim in and it does not water-log me. And, before I get berated, there are several different "cuts" of burkinis, from sports styles (the most tight and shortest skirt), to the modest cut (which I have which has a a-line skirt to the knees, and the pants are only snug from the waist to the knees - to keep it on properly - and the bottom part of the pants are like flare-bottom jeans).

Swimming is great exercise for me because I have bad knees.
 

Summer03

3doTs2sQuares
I've seen these burkinis in an article I read and saw the lifeguard Muslim women wearing them... But honestly what purpose do they serve? Firstly why is a Muslim woman willing to put herself in an awkward situation of having to save a drowning man and end up performing CPR when there are many many many other professions she can pursue.

Burkini is tight... Even when You buy a big size. Buying a big size so the figure won't show only makes the suit hazardous and too baggy to swin in thus making it heavy!

There are private pools for women... Go there..

These burkinis are the latest EPIC FAIL in my opinion because they don't serve any good.. Only trouble for the one wearing it and the one trying to prevent it.

Fight for wearing the obligatory hijab, not some swimsuit that does nothing but defeat the true meaning of modesty.


Salam.
 

q8penpals

Junior Member
Salam

With all due respect, the burkini that I wear covers more and is looser fitting that what most Kuwaiti women wear on a daily basis.

My husband is satisfied that my burkini is appropriate; it is a dark color and basically is not very fashionable nor does it make out the shape of my body (well, unless you mean showing the fact that I HAVE arms and I HAVE legs below the knees - not actually showing them, because they are covered in dark fabric). Besides, even before becoming Muslim, I wore swimsuits with skirts or shorts, and many times with T-shirts, because I am so pasty white I would sunburn too easily. So even if I went to the beach/pools on women-only days, I would still wear it because I fear skin cancer - in fact, many women with skin cancer or burn scars buy and wear the burkini - without the hood many times - to protect their skin anyway.
 

Abdul Hasib

Student of Knowledge
Assalamu Aleykum Warahmatullahi Wabarakaathuh dear brothers and sisters. I just want to show you this one important video:

[yt]YxtVTdsaCTE[/yt]

And Allah Subhanahu wa Ta Alla knows that which is best.
 

islam_best

Junior Member
Assalaamalaikum warahmatullahi wabarakathuu,

Why the heck they want women to dress they like???/!!!!

"We are going back in civilization," he said by telephone. Women have fought for decades for equal rights with men, he said. "Now we are putting them back in burqas and veils."

What does he mean by 'WE'???? It's not them but the women themselves who want to wear what they want. They talk about the Right to freedom of women, then she wants her freedom to wear THE BURQA OR THE VEIL?????? Where is this right to freedom gone??????????Ya Mujeeb guide us to the right path always and save us frm the torment of the grave,day of judgement and hell-fire and grant us jannatulfirdus in the hereafter.Ameen Ya Mujeeb.AMeen Ya Rahmaan.AMeen Ya Allah.AMeen!!!!

Wassalaamalaikum warahmatullahi wabarakathuu.
 

poetic

mrs aisha b
Well, I have no idea how waterlogged the burqinis get or do not get. I suspect merely because of the fact that they are not as snug, and have more fabric than Western swimsuits, that they necessarily impair the ability to swim to SOME degree.

As such, I do not think lifeguards should wear it. People in professions where they are expected to save others lives (lifeguards, firefighters, etc) should under no circumstances wear clothing that interferes with their ability to do their jobs, or any sort of clothing other than that clothing that allows them to do their job most effectively.

Firefighters, for instance, should wear insulated coats and helmets to protect them from the heat of the fire and falling objects. Not a disco dance get-up, or a burqa, or anything else that is less effective in protecting them from a fire.

Lifeguards should wear whatever it is that lets them swim the fastest, under the conditions they are most likely to be in. If this means wearing a rubber swimcap, even though they don't look as good, they should wear the rubber swimcap, or else shave their heads (hair drags in the water). They should also wear whatever sort of swimsuit lets them swim the fastest. In fact, if it is found that human beings swim fastest while naked, then all lifeguards should be naked (except for the rubber swimcap).

Although it is good that this 'burqini' allows Muslim women to go swimming, which they could not before, I suspect that it is a lawsuit waiting to happen, because of the fact that it does not allow one to swim as well as a tighter suit with less fabric. If someone drowns in one, or if a lifeguard wearing one fails to save someone who is drowing, the company producing them will probably get sued. If they were wise, they would put a disclaimer tag on their suits advising people not to wear them in water more than chest deep, or with currents, or if they are lifeguards. That way, they are legally covered in case someone ever tries to sue them.

Regarding the sanitary issue: at one time the YMCA in the US actually required men to swim naked (women did not swim at the YMCA at this time). The reason was that the fabrics used in swimsuits at that time would shed lint and fibers that clogged up the filters to the swimming pool. However, swimwear is no longer made out of those fabrics, this is not an issue anymore, and would not apply to any swimsuit, even a burqini, provided it is made out of swimsuit fabric.


Salaam Alaikum..
I did not meen that they are lighter, I meant that they feel the same as a regular bathing suit..VERY LIGHT.. maybe you should do some research on this fabric, I would compare it to any other bathing suit, maybe it would be slightly heavier considering all of your body is covered not just your middle area, but you can only slightly feel the difference, if it was so hazerdous we wouldnt be swimming in them. I thought the same way as you about these burqinis before, now I know better.
 

kayleigh

Junior Member
So I utterly fail to understand the point of this sort of swimsuit. I suspect it is an invention of the same sort of idiots who reduce the physical standards that must be met by female firefighters and policemen.

I, for once (lol), agree with you. No matter how loose the suit is when it's dry, everything becomes tight and clings to the body when it's wet.

Women, of course, should not be stopped from swimming. They should just find private pools and public pools with women's-only hours. I imagine those would be more enjoyable anyway. Wearing a full body suit to go swimming can't be the most comfortable thing in the world. But I understand that in the West some pools don't have this option and so it can be difficult to go swimming.
 
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