Hello everyone!

[Bluegazer]

Hello Erik,


Please take a look at the following posts of mine. They talk about the Story of the Adulteress in the Bible [John 7:53-8:11], about some words about the Bible written by Pope Pius XII and in some prefaces of Protestant Bible versions, and about what Francis J. Moloney [a Roman Catholic priest and Biblical scholar] says about some of the stories of Jesus [peace be upon him] in the New Testament:

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=62926&postcount=94
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=71414&postcount=19
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=71443&postcount=22
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=71447&postcount=23


They are very long posts, so please take your time to read them carefully. I have tried my best to provide Christian sources for all that I have written.


After you have read the above posts [or before you read them, whichever order you wish], please watch the documentary Who Wrote the Bible? that was aired on Christmas Day 2004 in the UK on Channel 4. It was presented by Dr. Robert Beckford [a Christian Theologian].

Dr Robert Beckford, is looking for for good answers to what sounds like a simple question: Who wrote the Bible?

It's a question that has preoccupied biblical scholars for several generations but Beckford, who is director of the Centre for Black Theology at the University of Birmingham, forsakes the library and takes to the road in a journey from Jerusalem to Rome and on to the USA (with a stopover in Walthamstow). On the way, he talks to American pilgrims shouldering crosses on the streets of Jerusalem, to the head of the Pope's Bible Institute, to a former criminal and boxing promoter in East London, and many more.

Source: http://robertbeckford.co.uk/taxonomy/term/2+3


And you can also check out the Channel 4 website about this documentary:

http://www.channel4.com/culture/microsites/C/can_you_believe_it/debates/bible.html


But who's Dr. Robert Beckford?

Robert Beckford is Reader in Black Theology and Culture at Oxford Brookes University, Oxford, and is the author of a number of books in the field of religion, popular culture and politics, including a study of Gang Culture in Birmingham and an examination of the hermeneutical quality of reggae-dub.

A teacher for most of his life, he first taught adult literacy at Bournville College in the early 1990s and progressed to become a tutor in theology at Queens College in Birmingham (1992-8) where he taught trainee clergy. He began teaching at the University in 1999, working first as a research fellow with offenders at Birmingham prison and then moving to the teaching staff in 2001. He Joined Oxford Brookes as the Reader in Black Theology and Popular Culture in January 2007.

A firm believer in teaching for social change, Robert also educates in community centres, care homes and male prisons. He currently supervises post graduate students in religion, politics and cultural studies.

As well as teaching Robert has presented a number of documentaries for the BBC and Channel 4 covering a range of subjects including Jamaican Independence, the rise of fundamentalist Christianity, historical revisions of empire, the Bible and world conflict, Gospel Music, Reparations and Patron Saints. He gained a BAFTA in 2001 for diversity in educational broadcasting. He is currently the presenter of the Sunday Morning Show on BBC WM.

Source: http://robertbeckford.co.uk/node/1


According to an article by Liz Ford published in the Guardian newspaper on 17th of May, 2005, Robert Beckford studied religion and sociology at Houghton College in New York, [U.S.A.], received his Masters degree in Hermeneutics at what was then London Bible College, in Middlesex, and is now the London School of Theology and finally received his PhD degree from the University of Birmingham.

Source: http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/profile/story/0,11109,1485116,00.html


I strongly suggest you watch the documentary Who Wrote the Bible? It's 1 hour and 40 minutes long:


[vg]7785317849743909385&q[/vg]


I wish you all the best Erik.


Best regards,

Bluegazer

 

[Erik]

Thank you Bluegazer, I will watch the documentary,
Ayman1 , you want the moderators to close this Thread based on what?
I like to know what wrong I have done to this forum that should rightfully close this thread?
As what I can see, its the most popular thread at this time.
Why does you personally think this thread should be closed?
something I wrote or why?
This is a Forum, noone should be scared to silence.
I need to ask and speak what I gorwn up with as the truth, I need to question so many things, the questionsfor Islam is not the hard part, the hard part in my heart is to question Christianity for me.
If you realy think about it, what does it tell you that I choose to do so and for beeing here in search?
Imagine yourself as a muslim doing the same towards christianity.
Thats not easy.
Regards /Erik

 

[island muslim]

Erik,


Its populer cause everyone is trying to answer you. And i have checked with a friend of mine in Iran... YES you CAN build a church in Iran, and the Christian community there do have their churches.

 

[Erik]

Dear Erik,
You misunderstood me completely! Closing a thread does not mean it was a bad, unpopular thread or a thread that should be censored. It only means that it appears to have reached a conclusion! That's all. You and I and everybody else here are free at all times to express our opinions and ask any questions.

Best wishes,
++Ayman

I do not understand, how can this have reached its conclution or any conclution? every minute it gains more question, new questions, same questions asked in a different way.new claims, new sources, new facts, the studdy of religion is eternal just like God. by claming this thread reach its conclusion, you might as well say, the debate, the beliving has so, no need to talk more about it.
I myself know so little but the more I read and studdy , the more I see how little I know.
Best wishes to you back Ayman, We do agree on the essance, there is no God but God and ONLY ONE GOD!!
Regards /Erik

 

[island muslim]

Erik,

Did i not see another thread where u said u were leaving???? If u have changed your mind thats very good.

 

[Erik]

Hello Erik,


Please take a look at the following posts of mine. They talk about the Story of the Adulteress in the Bible [John 7:53-8:11], about some words about the Bible written by Pope Pius XII and in some prefaces of Protestant Bible versions, and about what Francis J. Moloney [a Roman Catholic priest and Biblical scholar] says about some of the stories of Jesus [peace be upon him] in the New Testament:

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=62926&postcount=94
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=71414&postcount=19
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=71443&postcount=22
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=71447&postcount=23


They are very long posts, so please take your time to read them carefully. I have tried my best to provide Christian sources for all that I have written.


After you have read the above posts [or before you read them, whichever order you wish], please watch the documentary Who Wrote the Bible? that was aired on Christmas Day 2004 in the UK on Channel 4. It was presented by Dr. Robert Beckford [a Christian Theologian].




Source: http://robertbeckford.co.uk/taxonomy/term/2+3


And you can also check out the Channel 4 website about this documentary:

http://www.channel4.com/culture/microsites/C/can_you_believe_it/debates/bible.html


But who's Dr. Robert Beckford?



Source: http://robertbeckford.co.uk/node/1


According to an article by Liz Ford published in the Guardian newspaper on 17th of May, 2005, Robert Beckford studied religion and sociology at Houghton College in New York, [U.S.A.], received his Masters degree in Hermeneutics at what was then London Bible College, in Middlesex, and is now the London School of Theology and finally received his PhD degree from the University of Birmingham.

Source: http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/profile/story/0,11109,1485116,00.html


I strongly suggest you watch the documentary Who Wrote the Bible? It's 1 hour and 40 minutes long:


[vg]7785317849743909385&q[/vg]


I wish you all the best Erik.


Best regards,

Bluegazer

Thank you brother, I just finished watching the documentary, very good documentary I think.
Brings even many more new questions as I replied above.
Its pretty much very good made, very few comments not real accept for a few one easialy can see.
Then I ask of all that, how should I take it in, ones again it comes down to basics, here in this Book many dussins and more claim the same thing that is the only thing realy for cristianity, all who has nothing to gain still claim and confirm about Jesus as Cristianity say.
In the Documentary, I lact the gospel of Judas, I was hoping that would be talked about.
I think it is wonderful that this is possible today , making documentaries and gather good answers from brothers and sisters who is true in mind.
Is there any comprehanded documentary questioning or studdying the Holy Quran at the same level as this Documentary?
That is a major question and if no, why so?
Ragards /Erik

 

[Erik]

Now the image yousee of the man in search when you listen to his voice, the words he choose and look in his eyes, he does comeof as genuin, nowbehold,when he speaks to a man at the end of the documentary, the start to Zoom in on his hands trying to show another message.
Zooming in is because the man has a nice watch and a ring with a rubin I reccon.
Now who edited this? the one who did is false by trying to tell things without words about another man. just another man.
So did the presenter do this, I dont think so because his eyes didnt lie.
/Erik

 

[Erik]

that small part tiwsted the credibility of the whole documentary thought, Im sure all can see what I mean if watchining it, the truth never have to put down or claim, the false always reply alittle and then twist over to question instead.
/Erik

 

[Bluegazer]

Hello Erik,


I'm glad you watched the documentary.


I hope that you have read the 4 posts that I have provided links for as well.


As for your following question:

Is there any comprehanded documentary questioning or studdying the Holy Quran at the same level as this Documentary?
That is a major question and if no, why so?[/QUOTE]


If you mean a documentary done by "Muslims" trying to establish any supposed corruption in the Qur'an, then I doubt that there is one. Any Muslim who questions that the Qur'an has been preserved and isn't a Muslim anymore.


If you mean a documentary done by non Muslims, then I'm not aware of any. But I wouldn't be surprised if there was one such documentary. That's to be expected, since they try to attack Islam. One of the ways is to attack the fact of the preservation of the Qur'an.


The point about the documentary Who Wrote the Bible? is that it's an admission by Christian authorities about what happened to the Bible. If I were to post a Muslim video about what happened to the Bible, it wouldn't have the same effect on a Christian as this video.


Take care of yourself Erik.


Best regards,

Bluegazer

 

[Erik]

Jesus is equal with God, just like islam say,
Erik I wanted to correct you, Islam in FACT does not say this and it is considered on of the biggest sins Shirk Kabir, Jesus is not equal to GOD, neither is Noah or Abraham or Muhammed. Also we CAN reach GOD his knowledge is everywhere and HE is ALL seeing and ALL knowing ALL Hearing, so we are assuradly able to reach the Omnipotent in our dua' and prayers No need for intercession not with Jesus ali salat wa salam nor Muhammed nor a priest. The Holy Spirit is the Angel Gabrierl who came to all of the Propehts peace be upon them.

What you described is in fact Christian teaching

BTW there are churches in countries ruled by Muslims.

First I want to say Im sorry because I missed this reply. You are right, Islam does not say that Jesus is one with God, Christianity does not say Jesus is one With god, that would mean there are two Gods and there is only one God.
you know the rest I would say, regards /Erik

 

[Erik]

Erik,


Its populer cause everyone is trying to answer you. And i have checked with a friend of mine in Iran... YES you CAN build a church in Iran, and the Christian community there do have their churches.

Sir, I think we need a third saying to all of this, now I live in a country where 10% of the people are imigrants, I have some friends from Iran that are muslims.

can someone confirm facts? not only in iran but in every muslim country, is it not true that you cant worship any other God or God in another way?
i think you are very wrong sir, hopewe have other sisters or brothers here who can confirm. regards /Erik

 

[Erik]

Hello Erik,


I'm glad you watched the documentary.


I hope that you have read the 4 posts that I have provided links for as well.


As for your following question:

Is there any comprehanded documentary questioning or studdying the Holy Quran at the same level as this Documentary?
That is a major question and if no, why so?[/QUOTE]


If you mean a documentary done by "Muslims" trying to establish any supposed corruption in the Qur'an, then I doubt that there is one. Any Muslim who questions that the Qur'an has been preserved and isn't a Muslim anymore.


If you mean a documentary done by non Muslims, then I'm not aware of any. But I wouldn't be surprised if there was one such documentary. That's to be expected, since they try to attack Islam. One of the ways is to attack the fact of the preservation of the Qur'an.


The point about the documentary Who Wrote the Bible? is that it's an admission by Christian authorities about what happened to the Bible. If I were to post a Muslim video about what happened to the Bible, it wouldn't have the same effect on a Christian as this video.


Take care of yourself Erik.


Best regards,

Bluegazer

the context of the documentary is for Christianity as i see it, not against or anti.
sir no, yet I have not read the 4 posts but I will.
to me the Documentary as I siad more then ones only show that people with no connection choose to on there life with nothing to gain speak and write the essential thing.
Even if oneperson has a greta story to tell, he wount exactly tell it the same way, now whats remarcable is that many with no relation did.
If Moses wrote old testament all himself and Jesus wrote new testament all himself. then I would question it alot more.
Possible that a man in the silent desert belives he hear God then that dussins do about the same thing.

We all know the real reason why Mohammed, may peace be apon him or the Holy Quran is not testat today or questioned as the bible for example is.
I think that would be a good thing for Islam thought, Im close to converting but I miss that part also.
i wount become a muslim before many of my answers has been answered somewhat atleast. regards. /Erik

 

[junaid hasan]

Brother i dont know exactly iran but as i know Bangladesh is worls second biggest muslim country and there are a lot of church in capital(although dhaka is called as city of mosques.) also a 100 of tempales in this city and 1000 of around this country. To allow a new tempales or church is just depended on the goverment.

 

[danial]

dear Erik, i am glad that you are healthy and well.

i think the best thing you can do, is go to a mosque is Sweden and expose yourself to muslims. maybe since they speak the same language as you do, your answers can be more easily be answered.

we are all happy to answer your questions. however, there are a bit of communication problems between the TTI members and you probably because of misunderstandings through the language barrier.if u ever sense that any TTI member is being unfair or bad to you, they are not. it is probably just a misunderstanding. ISLAM IS A FAMILY and as a family we all love each other and we all hope you will be part of this family too.

what i can contribute to this thread is:

-there is only ONE god and he is ALLAH. ALLAH does not exist in a trinity. We all know that God is very very powerful. therefore, he wouldnt need to come in three forms. he only needs to come in ONE form.

-Jesus is NOT god. he is a prophet. he DID NOT die for mankind's sins.

-God does NOT need to come to earth in human form n sacrifice himself to show mankind that he loves them.

-Us muslims know that Allah loves us.Allah loves you.

dear Erik, take your time to find the truth. We are all here to support you and answer your questions. you are our brother in this forum, and we hope one day you will be our brother in ISLAM.

take care of yourself.

 

[TheKnowledgeSeeker]

assalamu alaykum

Sir, I think we need a third saying to all of this, now I live in a country where 10% of the people are imigrants, I have some friends from Iran that are muslims.

can someone confirm facts? not only in iran but in every muslim country, is it not true that you cant worship any other God or God in another way?
i think you are very wrong sir, hopewe have other sisters or brothers here who can confirm. regards /Erik

Ok this is half true in my opinion. You can in fact worship another God BUT you can't build a church or whatevery you worship God in a muslim country depending on the relationship among the muslim and nonmuslim of that country. You can't go around to telling people to worship your God AND you have to follow the muslim countries rules in that country. But some muslim countries where there are equal or almost equall percent of muslim and nonmuslim people have the right to have a church and infact have churchs. I know a girl who is from egypt but is christian said they had a church in egpt. At end we really can't answear this question because it depends on the relationship among the people of the countries mulims and nonmuslims. IF they have good relationship they might be allow to build church small or big but if not have good relationship they might not. I don't know for sure!

 

[Erik]

Ok this is half true in my opinion. You can in fact worship another God BUT you can't build a church or whatevery you worship God in a muslim country depending on the relationship among the muslim and nonmuslim of that country. You can't go around to telling people to worship your God AND you have to follow the muslim countries rules in that country. But some muslim countries where there are equal or almost equall percent of muslim and nonmuslim people have the right to have a church and infact have churchs. I know a girl who is from egypt but is christian said they had a church in egpt. At end we really can't answear this question because it depends on the relationship among the people of the countries mulims and nonmuslims. IF they have good relationship they might be allow to build church small or big but if not have good relationship they might not. I don't know for sure!

Thank you brother, I knew that before for a fact when I wrote the question but I wanted a muslim to answer it. in Christian countries you can build a temple or mosk in all christians in Europe I should point out.
How does Islam, THE RELIGION SEE THIS? not the dictators or culture heritage so to speak? Further more that why question was found of was freedom and rights to speak your mind. , I give an example, If a person is about to build a new house for hisfamily and is about to do it wrong or have, would it not be right to try and help instead of forbidding that man to build a house? Regards /Erik

 

[Erik]

To reply to myself but to go further and more into religion and beliving, understandable for every person like me and you and not for the men and women who focus to depth on tiny things trying to come of as grand themself.
Many linked to such men on the forum.
Not is it that whenever a person starts to starts to be claimed to be something when you should be consirned. Its when a person him or herself starts to claim you should.

As Islam says and as so many replied, Jesus never claimed he was God or the son of God, neither did Jesus claim he was a profet, he didnt claim anything, he just was or is?/Erik

 

[Erik]

Jesus did say he was a prophet! In 19:30, God quotes him saying while he was a newborn and in defense of his mother's chastity, "I am the servant of God. He gave me the Book and made me a prophet." He knew it and said it before he could speak.

And in the New Testament, Jesus is reported to have said that he cannot do anything on his own but the One who sent him can do all. That means he knew and has said he was a messenger of God and every messenger of God was a prophet.

I thought first you said was from the Quran,now whats in the Bible is suddenly facts and true?
I dont fallow, all i heard sofar here is that all is written by men and dont belive it

 

[Waseem Hanif]

I thought first you said was from the Quran,now whats in the Bible is suddenly facts and true?
I dont fallow, all i heard sofar here is that all is written by men and dont belive it

I do not think that the Quran is written by men. We got the Hadhits(things that
the prophet said) and they are sooooo different than the Quran.

 

[Erik]

I do not think that the Quran is written by men. We got the Hadhits(things that
the prophet said) and they are sooooo different than the Quran.

was talking about the Bible but ok