How to answer difficulty questions from atheists?

[Azmul]

Assalamu Alaikkum again,

And akhi, why are you living in the past and digging things and making your present horrible?

You have a future ahead of you. And these things you are saying are accounts of historians and no one knows the mistakes, and lies they have made in that. Allah only knows about them and their deeds will speak for them in the hereafter.

For you, it's your deeds. Why worry about their deeds? What has that got to do with today?

Regarding your first message, I agree. Whatever you quoted, I have nothing to object on.
But, Past or history is an integral part of a person's life. We should be aware of our past. Even in Quran Allah has described the past events, the catastrophes and stories of earlier Prophets.
It indicates that we have to learn from past, we have to understand what happened before us so that we shouldn't do mistakes in our future. My aim here was to tell that whatever we generally know about our history is not true.
See these things do value. We are here not only to do Allah's worship but we have to spend our allotted life too and for that we need to have proper knowledge.

 

[Seeking Allah's Mercy]

Now how can you be so sure about it when you have only read the text book material!?

I'm so damn dead disgusted, this Inshaa'Allaah will be my last post. I will reply to only that which has not yet been discussed or that you have misunderstood me.

Well, like I said I take interest in histroy and Islam is something I value. Islamic histroy isn't really a waste of time for me. I've read enough about the the Prophet time and the two Companions after him to say confidently: There wars were not for materialistic gain. You like it or not, Personally it is the height of shame and embarrassment for me to know that my brother in Islam is thinking so ill and lowly of a Man who was given the News of Being a Jannati in his lifetime. My pious predecessors are my honor and dignity, Allaah chose them for the struggle of keeping Islam alive and I should take the word of some man cursed by "nationalism" against them. Fat Chance!

Try to calm down and think over it. He has used the word Arab because he wants to make you understand that I was not the war of Muslims and Kuffar. It was solely the war of Arabs against Sindhis.

Your hero used the word "'Arab" for Omer may Allah be pleased with him and those he ruled. 'Arabs weren't the only muslims in Omer's time. I hope I don't need to repeat this again. Just because this man is materialistic, he needs not think the same of someone like Abu Bakr wa Omer wa Uthmaan May Allaah be pleased with them all.

This argument will lead nowhere if you are not ready to read history. How can i prove myself even after you are not ready to accept my quoted authentic sources? And I am not asking you to accept it blindly, Search for it.

Authentic Sources? you quote something out of a book and I should believe it. OKay I'll quote by bible next time. By your principle since it came outta book, it should be authentic. This argument is leading no where because you chose Sindh over Islam. You are doing everything you can to prove why sindh is better than Islam and why defending it is more important. In my case it's the opposite. I'm defending that which will remain over that which is Faani! You got your choice, I leave The Qur'an and Sunnah decide my choice. So yeah I"ll not "argue" with you no more after this last discussion.

The notion that If an area was captured by Muslims implies that it was done for religious purposes, then I think we should end the discussion here because it is a major flaw in our thinking. The word Muslim does not connote Piousness.

Stop misquoting me brother, at least have that much of respect for a MUSLIM even though we totally smoothed your mother land. I said that about Omer (May Allaah be pleased with him). I said the writer was right about Muslims back then i.e in Omer's time; not just any muslims. This is what I said. And I believe I gave you enough evidence to let you know no attacks were made on Sindh in Omer's time. Please be reasonable even if I'm the enemy.
Here read again:

I don't believe I need to search much, I can see how venomous this guy is calling the Muslims, the "Arabs". You want me to trust someone who is a Nationalist? At least one should think twice: Arabs were not the only Muslims in Omer's(May Allaah be pleased with him) time. Though the author is right about the bit in bold, Muslims back then fought only for Islam, there never was a political reason.

The reason why this debate won't conclude is that I'll feel that you don't understand politics properly and you'll feel that I lack proper understanding of Islam.

Cool, I've got no understanding of politics. However, I will not assume of you having no religious understanding. There is a fair chance that you understand, you just choose not to.

 

[Seeking Allah's Mercy]

Yes i do have a problem with it. Because its not same as Muslims paying Zakkat. Muslims pay Zakaat as a religious tradition. And non muslims are FORCED to pay it. Zakkat is paid happily, while Jaziyyah with regrets.

No, not all. Muslims who refused to pay are "forced" to pay too. So there is no choice left for them. Read about Abu Bakr's (May Allaah be pleased with him) Jihad against a group who refused to pay Zakaah after the Prophet's death. Where for you this war will be political or material. It was holy to keep a divine command intact.

If you are ruled by a Hindu, and he imposes something on you just because its his religious practice, how will you feel about it? Please don't compare Zakkat with Jaziyyah.

Bad. So I'll do my best to do Hijrah as prescribed for me in Quraan. If not, I'll stay and pay as I live under their rule. Islam teaches me to follow the rules and regulation of a land unless they are shirk. Nothing about Jaziyyah is related to "tawheed" so hindus shouldn't have a "religous" clash with it.

You say that since Muslim army is safeguarding them, its their duty to pay Jazziyah. Now what sort of claim is that? Firstly Muslims attacked their homeland and captured it and now saying that they'll safeguard you so pay tax! Weren't they being safeguarded before Muslims came?

True. Not all Muslims lands are the lands they invaded. 'Arabia for example where christians and jews live in peace and give Jazziyyaah to the Muslim ruler. Now coming to your questions, those who conquer, rule. If Muslims conquer, they rule. When they rule they are to devise their own system for running the country. The system for Muslims: Shari'ah. In Shari'ah the others pay a small amount of Jaziyyah and their life, wealth, business, and security becomes the Muslims rulers' responsibilty. What's the problem here again?

Raised where? On the Judgement day? Well if you are talking about that then let me say that this world is different from the hereafter. Here you are linked to your father's name while in hereafter with your mother. Here you feel emotions, you love your family and friends, there you wont bother for anyone.

How about we add a few more things: Here you have a chance to believe, there you won't. Here we live for a limited time, there we won't. Here we have a chance repent, there we won't? So by your rule, whatever is in the hereafter is of no value to us right now? This world is a compete separate issue? I see. you take Islam as a religoin and not Deen. Since our believe, our repentance, our time in the hereafter won't matter, we shouldnot pay a damn to it even now. Awesome!

Similarly here we have our different identities and there we'll have same.
If you accept that since we'll be raised as a Muslim then also remember that there we wont have any love for our family in hereafter so why not to practice living without loving and caring for them?

Throwing your anologies at me? It's you who explained: that which is for hereafter is not for this world, not me. It's you who is saying you are Muslim there, here you are Sindhi. I'm saying: you are what Allaah choses for you to be. He says he named us Muslims. It's about time you realise this. Loving one homeland is not a problem, The prophet Of Allaah said he loved Makkah like no place in the world. but did he ever called himself a Makkan or loved, hate or fought people based on rivalry with Makkah. Same goes for the Caliphs. Is the prophet's example not enough for us to follow?

Hairless Gorilla? Who? Are you talking about Altaf Hussain?
Well, let me tell you he is not a Sindhi.
And just when did I say that no other province is rich in resources? I am well aware of the injustice prevailing in Balochistan. I didn't say that Sindh is the only one land which suffers.

(I know) But he uses this emotions of you anyways. Half the city turns out when he growls like wounded one. Just because he talks about Sindh.

My point bro. There is no point complaining and thinking it's only "you" and your homeland. It's all of "us". Unless we stop acting mean and stand up together, nothing changes. There is no us and them when we are all Muslims. Choosing the right identity for yourselves choose who you are and what you do. It changes how you think and act. Your concern shouldn't just be limited to Sindh and it's people. But all this will not make sense to you when you in your mind it keeps on ringing :"But I'm a Sindhi". You are a part of greater Picture. You're a part of the Ummah (you even know what Ummah means). limiting yourself to a small dot of a Sindh is really unfortunate and sad indeed. I fully appreciate now, why the prophet of Allaah told us Nationalism is a curse!

 

[Azmul]

I'm so damn dead disgusted, this Inshaa'Allaah will be my last post. I will reply to only that which has not yet been discussed or that you have misunderstood me.

Well alright Sister, this discussion is going nowhere so lets end it. Its my last post also. I don't want to infuriate you more, though I didn't mean to make you that angry on first place. Perhaps you didn't understand what i was trying to say and equally possible that I didn't get the correct meaning of your comments.
Anyways, I have faith in Allah and His Prophet, though I have reservations with many conventional stuff we believe but its no use now. I have absolutely no complain with you as you are far better than many people. So may you continue your pious life and guide people on right path. Amen.

 

[Seeking Allah's Mercy]

The very last of the topics I'll post for you today:

ASABIYYAH (NATIONALISM)​

Bismillah ar Rahman ar Raheem

Today’s talk will be a short lecture on the disgusting, ignorant disease of Asabiyyah or Nationalism. Asabiyyah is a form of Nationalism in which people group themselves on tribal, racial, ethnic, school of thought and political grounds. Supporting them and giving preference to them over other people because of these reasons. For example if you were in a room with two people, one was from your country and the other wasn’t, and in your heart you’d already favoured the one from your country, then you are infected by the disease of Asabiyyah.

The drive that causes asabiyyah is the feeling of being better than others, and that others are at a lower class. So, the person that has this feeling of asabiyyah thinks so highly of himself and of those to whom he belongs, and thinks that other people are NOT as good as his own people.

This kind of thinking is backward, and it is in fact a kind of arrogance that comes from the mentality of Shaytan, which led him to disobey the command of Allah when He ordered him to prostrate to Adam. Shaytan said, "I am better than him, You created me out of fire and you created him (Adam) out of clay."
The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) warned us when he said, "No one enters Paradise if they have in their heart a atom weight of arrogance." The Prophet (pbuh) defined this arrogance in two things: Rejection of the truth and looking down on people. Many scholars consider Satan to be the first Racist.
Unfortunately this Asabiyyah has infected the Ummah. How often do we enter a new Mosque, and are totally ignored or our Salaams are never returned? Or in a gathering, where everybody is talking their own language and excluding those that don’t understand? Muslims are now grouping and discriminating against each other based on Islamic School of Thought, thinking that Hanafis are superior to Malikis or Wahhabis are extreme etc. Islam, under the unifying call of La illha il Allah was meant extinguish any of this.

Allah says in the Quran:
"And hold fast, all of you together, to the Rope of Allah, and be not divided among yourselves, and remember Allah’s Favour on you, for you were enemies one to another, but He joined your hearts together, so that, by His Grace, you became brethren (3:103)
Here he advises his creation against dividing ourselves into different sects and groups. Later on Allah explains why he created us differently:

"O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Verily, the most honourable of you in the sight of Allah is those who has most taqwa…" (49:13)

Allah said that He created the differences amongst people to be a reason for them to get to know each other, and live together in peace and unity and not a reason for them to look down on one another. In reality, the only scale of being better than others is at-taqwa (righteousness) and the good deeds one does.
Allah and the Prophet (pbuh), have spoken out many times against asabiyyah and racism.

In a hadith Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said:

"An Arab is no better than a non-Arab. In return, a non-Arab is no better than an Arab. A red raced man is no better than a black one except in piety. Mankind are all Adam's children and
Adam was created out of clay" [Al-Bukhari and Muslim, on the authority of Abu Musa].
On the Subject of Asabiyyah, . It is narrated by Abu Dawud that the Prophet (pbuh) said:
"He is not one of us who calls for 'Asabiyyah, (nationalism/tribalism) or who fights for 'Asabiyyah or who dies for 'Asabiyyah."And in another Hadith, the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) referring to nationalism, racism and patriotism said:
“Leave it, it is rotten” (Bukhari,Muslim)

This rotten disease wasn’t as common in the Prophet’s (pbuh) time. Remember the first man to call the Muslims to prayer, was a black Ethiopian by the name of Bilal ibn Rabeh, (may Allah be pleased with him).
Islam was sent as a religion for the whole Mankind, not just one particular nation or tribe. As Muslims we need to unite, the reason we are in such a state is because we are divided. United we stand, divided we fall. How true this is for us Muslims.

So let us stop putting Country, race, ethnic origin first, and Place Allah and Islam there in our hearts and deeds. We are Muslim first, everything else pales into insignificance.

 

[Seeking Allah's Mercy]

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked:

What is your opinion on the call for nationalism which believes that belonging to a race or language takes precedence over belonging to a religion, and these groups claim that they do not oppose religion, but they give nationalism precedence over it. What is your opinion of this call?
He replied:

This is a jaahili call, and it is not permissible to join it or encourage those who promote it. Rather it must be put an end to, because Islamic sharee’ah opposes it and rejects it. We should refute their specious arguments and claims with that which makes the truth clear to those who seek it


The Shaykh (may Allaah have mercy on him) also said:

How can any sound mind compare between nationalism and Islam when, if Abu Jahl, ‘Utbah ibn Rabee’ah, Shaybah ibn Rabee’ah and other enemies of Islam were alive, they would be among the most prominent supporters and greatest proponents of nationalism, whereas the proponents and supporters of Islam in every time and place are Muhammad the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq, ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab, ‘Uthmaan ibn ‘Affaan, ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib and other Sahaabah, the supporters and heroes of Islam, and those righteous people who followed their path? No one would justify comparing nationalism of this ilk, with these men as its supporters, and a religion of such standing, with such supporters and proponents, except one who is deranged, or is a blind follower, or a bitter enemy of Islam. The one who makes such a comparison is like one who compares dung and pearls, or Prophets and devils. The one with insight who ponders this and examines the facts closely, will clearly see that comparing nationalism and Islam is more dangerous to Islam that the comparisons mentioned above. Moreover, how can it be valid to compare nationalism, the fate of one who dies following which is Hell, and Islam, the destiny of one who dies following which is the victory of abiding close to the Lord in an abode of honour?

O Allaah, guide us and our people to the Straight Path, for You are able to do all things.

Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz (1/320, 321).

JazaaAllaahu Khayraan Wa BaraakAllah feek.

 

[Ershad]

Regarding your first message, I agree. Whatever you quoted, I have nothing to object on.
But, Past or history is an integral part of a person's life. We should be aware of our past. Even in Quran Allah has described the past events, the catastrophes and stories of earlier Prophets.
It indicates that we have to learn from past, we have to understand what happened before us so that we shouldn't do mistakes in our future. My aim here was to tell that whatever we generally know about our history is not true.
See these things do value. We are here not only to do Allah's worship but we have to spend our allotted life too and for that we need to have proper knowledge.

:salam2:

I think you should really listen to this lecture- http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81880 .

There is an important message from Surah Al-Baqarah. We can learn from past. But it is not a good thing to remain in past. That is the mistake the bani Israel did. We don't want to do the same thing. What you are doing is arguing about what happened in past and the argument never ends. You keep believing what you read from someone, you form your opinions. That is the first sign of hypocrisy. Have you personally seen these rulers doing it? Or did you hear of their intentions from them? Lets learn from something that is undisputed. We have some history in Qur'an which is undisputed and it is better to learn from that.

We have to spend this allotted life too. But, who knows how to do that? Who will guide us? Surely, the guidance is given by Allah and we have to follow the example of the Prophet SAW and his companions in spending the life.

 

[Azmul]

:salam2:

I think you should really listen to this lecture- http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81880 .

There is an important message from Surah Al-Baqarah. We can learn from past. But it is not a good thing to remain in past. That is the mistake the bani Israel did. We don't want to do the same thing. What you are doing is arguing about what happened in past and the argument never ends. You keep believing what you read from someone, you form your opinions. That is the first sign of hypocrisy. Have you personally seen these rulers doing it? Or did you hear of their intentions from them? Lets learn from something that is undisputed. We have some history in Qur'an which is undisputed and it is better to learn from that.

We have to spend this allotted life too. But, who knows how to do that? Who will guide us? Surely, the guidance is given by Allah and we have to follow the example of the Prophet SAW and his companions in spending the life.

How can we be so assured that whatever is written in hadith is true? Did you see the authors writing hadiths yourself?
You are not understanding my point really. I just don't know how to present it to you.
You tend to trust everyone who was in a way related to the initial era of Islam. Just how can you believe that which hadith is true and which is fabricated?
If i quote someone, and feel that he is telling the truth, you call me a hypocrite! I make my judgments on basis of some solid proof.
Don't believe me, fine. Call me ignorant or whatever but its a irrefutable truth that conspiracies have always been there and what you think right might not be so.
I believe in what i have said. If my judgments can be wrong, so can yours.

 

[Ershad]

How can we be so assured that whatever is written in hadith is true? Did you see the authors writing hadiths yourself?
You are not understanding my point really. I just don't know how to present it to you.
You tend to trust everyone who was in a way related to the initial era of Islam. Just how can you believe that which hadith is true and which is fabricated?
If i quote someone, and feel that he is telling the truth, you call me a hypocrite! I make my judgments on basis of some solid proof.
Don't believe me, fine. Call me ignorant or whatever but its a irrefutable truth that conspiracies have always been there and what you think right might not be so.
I believe in what i have said. If my judgments can be wrong, so can yours.

:salam2:

'A'isha reported that a person asked Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) as to who amongst the people were the best. He said:
Of the generation to which I belong, then of the second generation (generation adjacent to my generation), then of the third generation (generation adjacent to the second generation).

Most hadith which are authentic were narrated by the righteous predecessors. These people took from Prophet SAW himself who was infallible in his deen. And Prophet SAW has said they are the best among the people. I take references from them. Also, the scholars who are good at science of hadith identify weak hadith and fabricated hadith by careful examination of the isnad, or chain of transmission accompanying each hadith. So, we know which are fabricated and which are true.

None of the hadith I gave above are weak or fabricated hadith.

Every person is fallible. Only Allah is infallible. The prophet SAW was infallible in his deen but he used to consult in worldly affairs with his companions.

But, you take for matters of deen from people who are no way related to the Prophet nor has any historian provided evidence of what happened. These history you say were not recorded or recited as they happened unlike Qur'an.

I never called you a hypocrite brother. I just asked you to be cautious. You will always get some proof from google for any claim you make. Do you even know if they are contaminated or not? How do you judge their legitimacy. Feeling it is truth cannot be the proof of truth. If everybody starts believing their whim is the truth then there will be total anarchy and chaos. There is a way to judge the legitimacy of a hadith. That is the science of hadiths and many scholars work on it.

Conspiracies are theories and there is a reason they are called theories. They are not proven yet. You can learn those theories. But it is dangerous to hold on to one theory.

It is not what I believe that matters here, brother. It is not my opinion. It is what Allah commands. It is the question of deen. Are you comparing your history books with books of Sahih hadith?

Contemplate a little about your deen brother. I am not saying I am perfect. I am saying we should worry about our deen rather than pondering about what happened in the past and make a big fuss about it. This is what the Shia do and make a big fuss about what happened in the war of karbala.

I am sorry if I have offended you brother. Forgive me. That was not my intention.
and Allah knows the best.

 

[Aisya al-Humaira]

Assalamu'alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

To all the members who have contributed to this thread, Jazaakum Allaahu khayraan katheeran. May those who do not know benefit from the knowledge shared in this thread. And to those who knew, may Allaah strengthen on our understanding and make us able to walk the talk.

To Brother Azmul: May I kindly advice you to look deeply into your faith, think, ponder, contemplate, seek the true Islaamic knowledge with an open heart and make lots of dua'a to Allaah. So that may He subhanahu wa Ta'ala guide you and us all to the straight, true path, Ameen.

Following on this thread, I think that it is best for us to discuss on more important matters while Azmul make some reflection upon everything, inshaAllaah. Having said that, to refute questions brought up by atheists shouldn't be your priorities for now, Brother Azmul.

The above reminder is solely for us to speak the truth always and be reminded of how we should wisely spend our time with valuable matters, inshaAllaah.

 

[Son of Adam]

Dear Brother Azmul,

We must turn to the Quran for guidance, it is the book which God has given us as guidance and mercy for mankind.

In regards to your question in this thread, the Quran says:

2:6
Yusuf Ali
As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.

2:7
Yusuf Ali
God hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).

 

[sqsohaib]

nice keep it up.