How to answer difficulty questions from atheists?

Ershad

Junior Member
Assalamu Alaikkum wa rahamatullahi wabarakatuhu,

Just a question, what does whatever some muslim rulers did has to do with perfectness of Islam and Qur'an? Whatever happened is happened. Why argue about that? We don't have to discuss about muslim rulers. They are not our role models. Our role model is the Prophet SAW and his companions.

I am from the sub continent too. And chances are me being a muslim by birth could be the result of conquest of muslim rulers or the trade with Arab countries. Alhamdulilah, but that is not the only reason I am a conscious muslim now and still following. I am muslim now because I have learnt and convinced that Islam is the truth. Not because, some ruler converted my ancestors.
 

a_stranger

Junior Member
Assalamu Alaikkum wa rahamatullahi wabarakatuhu,

And chances are me being a muslim by birth could be the result of conquest of muslim rulers or the trade with Arab countries. Alhamdulilah, but that is not the only reason I am a conscious muslim now and still following. I am muslim now because I have learnt and convinced that Islam is the truth. Not because, some ruler converted my ancestors.


I think it is a blessing from Allah subhanahu wa taala that we have been taught :La ellah Ella Allah , which purify hearts and make man turn to his creator with sincerity , instead of turning to creatures, stones......any other thing other than the one true creator .........may Allah have mercy on all those who participated in spreading this truth.
 

Seeking Allah's Mercy

Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!
Ok it seems you live in vicinity of Sindh, somewhere. You have good 'textbook' knowledge of Sindh History. And I am sure you would be knowing the name of Dr. Mubarak Ali. He is a renowned Historian and has written many books on history of subcontinent. I suppose he is to be trusted in what he writes.
In his book, Reinterpretation of Arab conquest of Sindh, Dr. Mubarak tells what was the real reason of attacking Sindh.
I am sending you its gist.

Yeah I got good 'textbook' knowledge, perhaps I was a good student. Ha!

Nay, don't know the guy. I'll have to search for this guy's authenticity and goodness before I take his words in. Islam taught me to trust people and their text if they possess a certain amount of characters. Khair Inshaa'Allaah. . .

As of now, what a total waste of my time and yours too, akh. But I'm to be blamed 'cos I requested it so yeah.

Reinterpretation of Arab conquest of Sindh:
.

So Hajjaj's shrewdness in politics and experience in military is the proof that no family wa caught and mistreated? That's some real incredible reasong I've ever seen.
First all, the Arabs had made many attempts to conquer Sindh since the time of Hazrat Umar but failed to achieve their object because there was no immediate need to occupy it for military or political reasons.

Correction, Not the Arabs, the Muslims. Another Correction, a delegation was sent, not an army. They tried to conquer shirk not people. I believe you know the different between a delegation and army.

I don't believe I need to search much, I can see how venomous this guy is calling the Muslims, the "Arabs". You want me to trust someone who is a Nationalist? At least one should think twice: Arabs were not the only Muslims in Omer's(May Allaah be pleased with him) time. Though the author is right about the bit in bold, Muslims back then fought only for Islam, there never was a political reason.

Moreover, by the time of the 8th century, the Arab merchants had established close trade and commercial relations with the coastal towns of south India and Sri Lanka and established their settlements in a number of places. Therefore, the presence of sea pirates near the port of Debal and the capture of the ship alarmed the merchant community. Their concern was safety of the sea route. Apparently, that was the reason that Hajjaj decided to send expeditions to Sindh to conquer and to occupy it in order to protect the interest of the Arab merchants.
Contradicting himself now, is he? First he said it may not have happend now he's saying different. Now, helping the captives or attacking to ensure the routes are safe are both justified reasons. You have no right over others Maal or Awlaadh. That is sacred. Instead of seeing this evil on the pirates end to have robbed them off, you are going ahead and saying those who made the zone robber-free for themselves are a problem?? Sobhan'Allaah! Akhi what utter rubbish have you been filling your mind with? May Allaah straighten our affairs! is this the state of the Ummah?

Historians also give credit to Muhammad b. Qasim

Muhammad bin Qasim was given credit because he was a young lad when he conquered sindh. You feel their is nothing to mention about a 17 year old leading an army and getting victorious. No? No bravery, no struggling, no nothing? Did Hajjaj run in to swish his sword?

This extreme obedience of his, in and of itself is admirable. All our righteous predecessors used to do that. No General in Islam acts except that he takes the Khalifa into confidence. That's how it is. I will not call Hajjaj as the righteous predecessor or call Muhammad bin Qasim some golden token boy, their cases rests with Allaah as today I'm not harmed or bothered by their actions in the past. but the amazing amount of prejudice shown by you 'cos they attacked send and freed you from shirk is just WOW! It just even made me overcome my strong hate for Hajjaj considering the amount of sins he's committed. I mean really, sobhan'Allaah it's like you would rather still live like a Hindu than be attack by "US" (because I'm a Muslim, yeah?) for your robberies. Beautiful! dear brother, don't get offended but I really do feel sad for you. May Allaah guide us all. Ameen.
 

Seeking Allah's Mercy

Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!
So, let me come back to the death of Mohammad Bin Qasim. His death was ordered by Hajjaj for an awful reason. You asked for book references so let me quote from a history book, "Chachnamah".

So which pious "He-Never-Lied" guy wrote this one now?

Chachnama:
.... The next day when the king of stars made his appearance from behind the curtain of night, a camelman bearing a letter from the capital of the Khalifahs arrived.
King of the, lolwut? That's the craziest line I've ever read. So someone is now in position be like Allaah sobhanuhu wa taa'la. Astagfirullah! what is this guy even thinking about?

Muhammad ....Khalifah."

About all this stuff, how do I know the slave girl didn't lie about it? What's the evidence that this mushrika wasn't being clever to get her revenge?

You can believe anything you want to believe. I see you seem to take it against Muhammad Bin Qasim because he attacked Sindh, and since Sindh is more important to you than Islam, you feel fine to believe all this, infact feel comfortable and confident about it. Your Choice bro, I just feel really sad for you.

Victim? Well, not really. As you said, or perhaps some other sister said that Islam was spread in subcontinent by Sufis. I agree to it along with the fact that forced conversions and the extra tax 'jizya' also played their part.

Wrong again. Brother Please, come out of crazy nationalistic shell and read the history of Islam. It will get you facts and figures straight. Thanks to BII, I got these. May Allaah reward him immensely for his efforts to share these with us.

According to the soofees, the dawah of Islam and tawheed didn't reach the lands of India till atleast 400 to 500 years of Hijri Calendar. This implies that Islam didn't reach the lands of India when Sultan Mohammad Ghaznavi launched attacks on India from 1001 AD to 1025 AD. For example : A famous early soofee, Khwaja Moinudeen Chisti (born 537 Hijri or 1143 AD) came to India in 561 Hijri (1166 AD) according to their books.

Contrary to the above stated, we have evidences that Islam was introduced as early as 15 Hijri.

During caliphate of Umar Ibn Khattab RadiAllahu Anhu (15 Hijri),a contingent of 12 sahaba brought the call of tawheed to the sea shore of Bombay in a place that is currently called 'Thane' and also to a sea shore called 'Bhadhoj'.

Uthman ibn Abu-al-Aas RadiAllahu Anhu who is a Sahabi bought an army in 636 AD (14 Hijri).

During Uthmanian Caliphate, under governorship of Abdullah Ibn Aamir, a delegation with Hakim bin jableh was sent which included 5 sahaba.

During caliphate of Ali RadiAllahu Anhu, 3 sahaba were sent to Indian lands.

During caliphate of Muawiyah RadiAllahu Anhu, an army was sent under the command of Muhallab ibn abi safrah which contained 4 sahaba.

Yazeed Ibn Muawiyah RadiAllahu Anhu sent an army that contains one sahaba. (around 63-64 Hijri)

Total of 25 sahaba.

Abdullah bin Sawaar Abdi was also sent by Khilaful Islam with 4000 troops was sent to the Indian lands soon after.

Mohammad bin Qasim rahimullah in 93 Hijri (Waleed ibn abdul Malik was the Khalifah at this time) took an army of 12,000 men consisting of Tabieen and Tabi Tabieen. They marched in to land of Sindh (present day Karachi) and spread as far as Multan , establishing Tawheed in the land.

The Kuffar army consisting of Brahmin were impressed by the manners (akhlaaq) and courage of the muslim army and its leader and accepted Islam in good number.

During the Khilafah of Umar Ibn Abdul Aziz rahimullah (98-101 Hijri), the Kings of present day India were formally given invitations to accept the call of Islam, and people converted in great numbers.

After 'Fath e Sindh', a large number of Ulema settled in the region and imparted knowledge of the deen to the inhabitants of the area.

In 4th century Hijri, Sabuktigin Ghaznawi made inroads in lands of present day Peshawar after defeating the King of Jaipur. Mahmud Ghaznawi furthered his efforts and gained more territories within India.

From 1030 - 1186 AD (421 - 582 Hijri), Muslims ruled over the land of India. After Ghaznavid dynasty, the Ghauri dynasty becomes the rulers of India. Shahab Uddin Ghauri recaptured some territories (Lahore and Multan especially), which had been influenced by the newcomers in the area (ie the Sufi and Rawafidh Shia) and were proceeding to mislead people from the 'true Islam'. Consequently, Indian lands were ruled by Tughlaq dynasty, Khilji dynasty, Lodhi Dynasty. Emperor Babur established the Mughal empire in India in the year 1526 AD (932 Hijri) which lasted till 1857 AD, after which the British rose to power.
Thus, it is established that Islam had firm foothold in lands of India 93 Hijri onwards. This also discredits the often propagated myth that 'hanafi version of Islam' was the first to enter India. Imam Aboo Haneefa rahimullah was a child during this time period (born in 80 Hijri, he must be about 13 years old. It is well known he didn't start gaining ilm until he reached age of 20 years). Therefore, the Islam that made its first appearance in India was the one that is established on Quran and Sunnah and with proper understanding of Tawheed.
 

Seeking Allah's Mercy

Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!
Now what I wanted to explain is that homeland is a person's first identity. I am Sindhi first and then Muslim because that the rule of the thumb. Arabs always considered being Arab initially and then a muslim. How? Its answer is simple, Wherever they went, they imposed their language over the country rather than accepting the national language. If They were Muslims first they didn't need to impose their language.
Oh my brother, I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the silliness of your words. How about this, You are a Muslim first and Sindhi later by rule of Allaah! Like it? You'll be raised with your identity as a Muslim, not as a Sindhi. Does that make you think who you really are?

Arabs today, maybe. But not all and not always. Spend sometime here at TTI and see what we live like. None of us go about making friends and foes upon being from this country or the other. Your answer is very wrong. Omer (May Allaah be pleased with him) used to ask those under his rule to follow whatever traditions they have. And not to copy the Arabs in dress and behaviour. People learn 'Arabic to learn Qur'an better and to understand their deen. Imaam Bukhari was a persian from Bukhara, on daily basis he spoke persian. But his books, his religious contributions and classes and students all were in 'Arabic. Does that make an 'Arab outta him? People followed the 'Arab just like now they follow the west. Because of them being in power. It was discouraged by our Pious predecessors.

Take a current example, We all are muslims but if you go to Saudi Arabia, you'll never get the nationality there. Why? Reason is simple, they are Arabs first and then Muslims therefore any muslim is not allowed unless he is an Arab too. My point here is simple.
So you weigh islam according to 'Arabs' actions? Reason is real real simple, and that is, like you they are being nationalist, not following Islam, not living like one Ummah. Being Idiots like the rest of us. Hope that made some sense.

Religion is a guideline to lead a life while Nationality is your identity. If you'll consider Muslim as your nationality then you are in real trouble because then you'll have to share your home property with all the muslims as they'll become the legitimate heir of it.
Islam is our identity, Our deen and our nationality all in one. Real trouble? Sobhan'Allaah! What trouble. I move around freely in the Muslim countries, and I'm in trouble. Every Muslims pain is my pain, every happiness my happiness and I'm in trouble? By Allaah! what crazy things are you thinking. Since when is unity a curse? Yes they have a right to live about a Muslim state and they should. This planet called Earth is Allaah's, not mine, not yours, not even a piece of it. He gives it to whom He wills. My Homeland, a homeland or all my Muslims brothers and Sisters, what greater blessing can there be?

About personal home and property there are rules for that in Qur'aan, hope you are don't confusing that with the entire mass of a state.

Sister, with all due respect, using the identity as Muslim has always been political rather than religious. Try to comprehend the facts of this world. We have been asked to live in this world so we need to understand what's going on here. .

Akhi, listen, I've been rude and that much is obvious, not to you but your comments. However, by none of this I mean ill for you. You being a brother in Islam are a part of the Ummah. That's the nation we are all a part of. It knows no geographical boundries, anyone can be a part of it by saying the Shahadah, that's how Merciful Allaah is. We live in this world and the Qur'an says we are divided into tribes and states to be able to tell one from the other, but we are one Ummah. (take this anology: It's like your name is xyz and mine abc so that no body gets confused. But we are all humans.) Pakistani, Indian, Afghan, American matters not. What matter is being a Muslim. Wherever you are you are part of this Ummah. We have been divided by Kuffar like this. They divide and conquer. Take you own country for example. What happens in waziristan is considered to be not of your concern, what happens in Khyber Pakhtun Kwa is not your concern, what happens in Sindh is not their concern. We are being taught all this to keep the real message away. They successfully divided us and are now conquering us. 26 soldeirs died a couple of days ago and what did we do? All of us are facing problems because we don't stand up for each other, we are all mean, downright mean! We have no Imaan 'cos we have no Knowledge. The Waziri is my brother, The Pukhtoon is my brother, The kashmiri is my brother, the sindhi is my brother, I care for what happens to them, to stab them you stab me, That's it! You see a problem here? And if you extend this to Iraqis, Palestinian, Afghans, Afia in US's Jail, Baber Ahmed in UK's prison. They don't want it like that, they want us weak.

I don't know from where you belong but we Sindhis have really suffered because of this notion. Our rich sources have been captured and you must be well aware of the situation of Sindh right now.

It doesn't even matter where I belong. It's of lil to no importance and benefit. Not Sindhi only, the entire Ummah has suffered. Everyone is being mean and cares only for oneself. It's bound to happen that we suffer. Tbh, all these stinking politicians are now using this great weakness in you people. They just say a couple of sweet words about sindh and you fall for it. May Allah straighten our affairs. Rich sources? Boy! you know how rich in mineral resources Waziristan and Balochistan are? The coal and copper in there? And they are having drones fly over their heads and soldeirs in their face! Brother. It's like that almost everywhere. It's because we don't co operate that we are such a sad state right now. I know what's happening in there. Sobhan'Allaah sometimes I wish someone would tear apart the president and the hairless Gorilla residing in UK. Forgive me, it would hurt your nationalistic feelings since both of these beasts are Sindhi. But I don't give a damn who is from where, if someone is an idtiot, an idiot I'll call him irrespective of where he comes from.

Islam is my religion, Sindhi is my identity.

Wrong.
There is difference in our views but by no means do i want to degrade Islam. Its just that we need to understand the difference between a person's identity and his religion.
Unintentionally you just did. You contradicted the Qur'an, you contradicted the Sunnah, You go by your views and you don't pay heed to the Prophet's :saw: warning. I remind you again He:saw: warned us that 'Asabiyyah is a curse and we must be steer clear of it.

I apologize if I've crossed the limits of a polite discussion (as I tend to do these days). I mean no harm or hurt.
 

Seeking Allah's Mercy

Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!
I don't favour any Mughal emperor, be it Shah Jahan or Aurangzeb. Both were enamored with lust of power.

I agree on that one when it comes to the Mughal maniacs.

And regarding your point that why didn't Mughal emperor do forced conversions, I have to say that forced conversions were part of initial tactics to get maximum support in the country. After becoming the ruler, they apply tax over non muslims which lead to discrimination and subsequently many conversions in order to attain a higher status in society.

You seem to have a problem with th Jaziyyah tax. Why so? It's just the same as Muslims pay Zakaah. Don't you pay taxes in Non Muslims countries if you live there. If the Muslim army is protecting them, Muslims rulers ruling them, they have full right to do so. Most of all and above all us, why are you questioning that which your Lord choose for you with so much hate and no understanding. It's no discrimination. We pay Zakaah annually they pay Jaziyyah. Stop acting so Non Muslimish if you are not one of them by the grace of Allaah. Spend some of your precious time with the Qur'an, will you?

:salam2:
. . .

Asalamoalaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakaatuh,

I couldn't stop but laugh. Of all the things that he's having problem with, you have to clear that Sobhan'Allaah. May Allaah bless you. Apologies but I couldn't help myself but to quote you.

Btw Saudi king is a. Ahem! Khair. May Allaah bless him with strong Imaan for maintaining the elimination of Shirk in the holy lands.
 

Itqan Ullah

Time is Running!!
I don't favour any Mughal emperor, be it Shah Jahan or Aurangzeb. Both were enamored with lust of power.
Brother I did NOT favour anybody!! I was giving an example of how things can be observed from different perspectives. I already stated in 14th line:

"No I am not glorifying Aurangzeb I don't know much about him and far as I know he was a nakshbandi sufi so it is quite likely that he may have committed many errors but anyways allahu alam I don't know I was just giving an example."


And regarding your point that why didn't Mughal emperor do forced conversions, I have to say that forced conversions were part of initial tactics to get maximum support in the country. After becoming the ruler, they apply tax over non muslims which lead to discrimination and subsequently many conversions in order to attain a higher status in society.

OK thanks atleast you now agree their errors had nothing to do with Islam.. ;)

One small advise I can give you is read about the the duties of caliph, how all this stuff works, right of of non-muslims in an Islamic state and then you would be able to sort things out better.
 

K-A-K

Junior Member
Salam

Patriotism is one thing and Having Beliefs another.
I mean, Sindh only exists in our minds. What about Balochistan?
You get all the gas from there... and all the rich minerals. You don't seem to be saying anything for them. Balochis are suffering more than Sindhis for one.
If people of Sindh do not have things today, it's because of them and the government. Like nation, like government.
We as a people are bad today. and from us rises the govt. So how about we put the blame on ourselves. people messed up in history and we are messing up now...

Being Sindhi, Balochi, Punjabi, Sarhadi, doesn;t solve any problem at all. Had we all been good "muslims" in literal sense, things would've been far better! Trust me...

That's the first i've ever had. I'm Sindhi first and Muslim second. I mean honestly... Its a sincere advice that you do some honest soul searching and question your ownself! I do not intend to laugh at you or anything (I'm quite stupid too, maybe even more than you) but well give yourself time... Read stuff but get to an impartial judgement. I like to read a lot too and in that i come across many writings that challenge my beliefs and sometimes may own existence (!) but we all have our speedbreakers. And we have to make judgments. But make judgments that are of benefit. :)

When we will be questioned, we won't be gathered as sindhis, punjabis, afghanis, etc. Though we may be asked later on what we did for our land... But that comes later on... I mean honestly. If a very partial history were to determine who we should be, then noone in this world should be anything at all. I mean c'mon.

We take religion to be a thing as How people do it. I wish it were that easy. It's not that way. We're all humans in making and we err many a times. I can't judge any belief system by seeing a deviant follower. I am imperfect too and wouldn't want people to follow whatever wrong i do. I mean its wrong! What's wrong is wrong!

Just take a breath again and think to yourself. Best wishes!

Salam
 

Azmul

Junior Member
Nay, don't know the guy. I'll have to search for this guy's authenticity and goodness before I take his words in. Islam taught me to trust people and their text if they possess a certain amount of characters. Khair Inshaa'Allaah. . .

As of now, what a total waste of my time and yours too, akh. But I'm to be blamed 'cos I requested it so yeah.

Yes, I'll also request you to search for this guy. May be then you feel the command this person possesses over history.
 

Azmul

Junior Member
I don't believe I need to search much, I can see how venomous this guy is calling the Muslims, the "Arabs". You want me to trust someone who is a Nationalist? At least one should think twice: Arabs were not the only Muslims in Omer's(May Allaah be pleased with him) time. Though the author is right about the bit in bold, Muslims back then fought only for Islam, there never was a political reason.

Now how can you be so sure about it when you have only read the text book material!?
Try to calm down and think over it. He has used the word Arab because he wants to make you understand that I was not the war of Muslims and Kuffar. It was solely the war of Arabs against Sindhis.
This argument will lead nowhere if you are not ready to read history. How can i prove myself even after you are not ready to accept my quoted authentic sources? And I am not asking you to accept it blindly, Search for it.
The notion that If an area was captured by Muslims implies that it was done for religious purposes, then I think we should end the discussion here because it is a major flaw in our thinking. The word Muslim does not connote Piousness.
 

Azmul

Junior Member
Contradicting himself now, is he? First he said it may not have happend now he's saying different. Now, helping the captives or attacking to ensure the routes are safe are both justified reasons. You have no right over others Maal or Awlaadh. That is sacred. Instead of seeing this evil on the pirates end to have robbed them off, you are going ahead and saying those who made the zone robber-free for themselves are a problem?? Sobhan'Allaah! Akhi what utter rubbish have you been filling your mind with? May Allaah straighten our affairs! is this the state of the Ummah?
Contradiction!? Can you please explain what has he contradicted? The point he made earlier was that the purpose of invasion was not the captivated family.
Now he is saying that the reason might have been because of sea pirates disturbing their safe passage.... NOT BECAUSE OF A FAMILY CAPTIVATED.
There is a difference i think. If you fight against pirates for safety of your merchants, it is not a religious task. It is a political one.
Moreover, destroying whole country just to ensure that merchants are safe make absolutely no sense at all! I think you are in favour of an american attack over Iran if iran captures some of the american ships. Are you?
The reason why this debate won't conclude is that I'll feel that you don't understand politics properly and you'll feel that I lack proper understanding of Islam.
 

Azmul

Junior Member
You seem to have a problem with th Jaziyyah tax. Why so? It's just the same as Muslims pay Zakaah. Don't you pay taxes in Non Muslims countries if you live there. If the Muslim army is protecting them, Muslims rulers ruling them, they have full right to do so. Most of all and above all us, why are you questioning that which your Lord choose for you with so much hate and no understanding. It's no discrimination. We pay Zakaah annually they pay Jaziyyah. Stop acting so Non Muslimish if you are not one of them by the grace of Allaah. Spend some of your precious time with the Qur'an, will you?
Yes i do have a problem with it. Because its not same as Muslims paying Zakkat. Muslims pay Zakaat as a religious tradition. And non muslims are FORCED to pay it. Zakkat is paid happily, while Jaziyyah with regrets.
If you are ruled by a Hindu, and he imposes something on you just because its his religious practice, how will you feel about it? Please don't compare Zakkat with Jaziyyah.
You say that since Muslim army is safeguarding them, its their duty to pay Jazziyah. Now what sort of claim is that? Firstly Muslims attacked their homeland and captured it and now saying that they'll safeguard you so pay tax! Weren't they being safeguarded before Muslims came?
 

Azmul

Junior Member
Oh my brother, I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the silliness of your words. How about this, You are a Muslim first and Sindhi later by rule of Allaah! Like it? You'll be raised with your identity as a Muslim, not as a Sindhi. Does that make you think who you really are?

Raised where? On the Judgement day? Well if you are talking about that then let me say that this world is different from the hereafter. Here you are linked to your father's name while in hereafter with your mother.
Here you feel emotions, you love your family and friends, there you wont bother for anyone.
Similarly here we have our different identities and there we'll have same.
If you accept that since we'll be raised as a Muslim then also remember that there we wont have any love for our family in hereafter so why not to practice living without loving and caring for them?
 

Azmul

Junior Member
Tbh, all these stinking politicians are now using this great weakness in you people. They just say a couple of sweet words about sindh and you fall for it. May Allah straighten our affairs. Rich sources? Boy! you know how rich in mineral resources Waziristan and Balochistan are? The coal and copper in there? And they are having drones fly over their heads and soldeirs in their face! Brother. It's like that almost everywhere. It's because we don't co operate that we are such a sad state right now. I know what's happening in there. Sobhan'Allaah sometimes I wish someone would tear apart the president and the hairless Gorilla residing in UK. Forgive me, it would hurt your nationalistic feelings since both of these beasts are Sindhi. But I don't give a damn who is from where, if someone is an idtiot, an idiot I'll call him irrespective of where he comes from.
Hairless Gorilla? Who? Are you talking about Altaf Hussain?
Well, let me tell you he is not a Sindhi.
And just when did I say that no other province is rich in resources? I am well aware of the injustice prevailing in Balochistan. I didn't say that Sindh is the only one land which suffers.
 

Azmul

Junior Member
Now, helping the captives or attacking to ensure the routes are safe are both justified reasons. You have no right over others Maal or Awlaadh. That is sacred. Instead of seeing this evil on the pirates end to have robbed them off, you are going ahead and saying those who made the zone robber-free for themselves are a problem?? Sobhan'Allaah! Akhi what utter rubbish have you been filling your mind with? May Allaah straighten our affairs! is this the state of the Ummah?

And I missed one point, During the Muslim rule over Sindh, do you know who used to rule the sea?
Portuguese!
They used to be the worst pirates of their time and the Arabian Sea was under their control. But do you know of any account in history which tells about a war which Muslim rulers fought against those pirates? Of course no.
The reason was that Portuguese used to bring fine quality of wine from Europe and gift them to Muslim rulers and therefore there was no concern over the activities of Portuguese.
 

strive-may-i

Junior Member
The thread is deviating from the thread topic.
And the thread topic is grammatically incorrect from a person expecting logic. Logic can be twisted, ask any ace lawyer who plays with facts and proves his point, no matter what the truth. you can increase and descrease the scope the arugment out of sheer malice, and with sheer evil intellect, mask the truth, celebrate an instant of victory, and thus be doomed for eternity. The choice is there, Almighty has bestowed it, And oh let me remind, what am asked to remind, Almighty promises it will not go unaccounted for. [try applying this to every human character real or fictional... since you like history (his story) much ]

And oh, Nationalism well its myopic. If you cannot look at a fellow human as a human first, then that is the first problem. If you are sindhi first, then it means you are not a sub continent dweller first... You are almost celebrating it like Nazi did

And sole purpose of a human existence, as per islamic belief is submission to will of God. Islam expects a human to be human and Jinn to be a Jinn, both submitting to will of God. Start now from this end of the truth, you might go far, with this approach, make peace with past events and contribute your i cent in laying foundation for a better future,

And well let me tell you your knowledge of history... BLAH
You knowledge of Islam .... BLAH
Agreed mine is zero.

Just being blunt.
 

Ershad

Junior Member
Raised where? On the Judgement day? Well if you are talking about that then let me say that this world is different from the hereafter. Here you are linked to your father's name while in hereafter with your mother.
Here you feel emotions, you love your family and friends, there you wont bother for anyone.
Similarly here we have our different identities and there we'll have same.
If you accept that since we'll be raised as a Muslim then also remember that there we wont have any love for our family in hereafter so why not to practice living without loving and caring for them?

:salam2:

The hereafter and this world is different, in the sense that this world is a prison for the believers. But, it is a test that we have to undergo to make ourselves worthy for the hereafter.

Here you feel emotions, you love your family and friends etc, alright - who puts love in the hearts of people for their family and friends? Allah. And Allah has told you through the Prophet SAW how to live this life if you want to be worthy of the paradise in the hereafter. So, it is the love for Allah that make us love his creations. We love what Allah loves and hate what he hates. We love what the Prophet SAW loves and we hate what he hates.

Let me tell you what Prophet SAW said about this world to show you the worthiness of this world -
Narrated Mujahid:
`Abdullah bin `Umar said, "Allah's Apostle took hold of my shoulder and said, 'Be in this world as if you were a stranger or a traveler." The sub-narrator added: Ibn `Umar used to say, "If you survive till the evening, do not expect to be alive in the morning, and if you survive till the morning, do not expect to be alive in the evening, and take from your health for your sickness, and (take) from your life for your death."

Narrated `Abdullah:
The Prophet drew a square and then drew a line in the middle of it and let it extend outside the square and then drew several small lines attached to that central line, and said, "This is the human being, and this, (the square) in his lease of life, encircles him from all sides (or has encircled him), and this (line), which is outside (the square), is his hope, and these small lines are the calamities and troubles (which may befall him), and if one misses him, an-other will snap (i.e. overtake) him, and if the other misses him, a third will snap (i.e. overtake) him."

Our families, friends are nothing but trials and tribulations for us, we love them for the sake of Allah.

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "Allah says, 'I have nothing to give but Paradise as a reward to my believer slave, who, if I cause his dear friend (or relative) to die, remains patient (and hopes for Allah's Reward).

Narrated Qais:

I heard Khabbab, who had branded his `Abdomen with seven brands, saying, "Had Allah's Apostle not forbidden us to invoke Allah for death, I would have invoked Allah for death. The companions of Muhammad have left this world without taking anything of their reward in it (i.e., they will have perfect reward in the Hereafter), but we have collected of the worldly wealth what we cannot spend but on earth (i.e. on building houses).

Narrated Anas:

The Prophet did not eat at a table till he died, and he did not eat a thin nicely baked wheat bread till he died.

Narrated `Aisha:

When the Prophet died, nothing which can be eaten by a living creature was left on my shelf except some barley grain. I ate of it for a period and when I measured it, it finished.

Narrated Al-Mughira bin Shu`ba:

The Prophet used to pray so much that his feet used to become edematous or swollen, and when he was asked as to why he prays so much, he would say, "Shall I not be a thankful slave (to Allah)?"

May these Hadith soften your heart brother. There are angels who prostrate all their life... some spend their lives in rukuh and some in sujood. They don't sleep at all, because they are afraid to miss any command from Allah.

Don't get attached or carried away by this life brother. We are in this world for only one objective - To worship and serve Allah. And everything you do as the Prophet SAW said is a form of service to Allah. Charity, loving your family, children, spending and providing for them. These are all good deeds for which you will be rewarded. We do it for the sake of Allah.

Allah is the source of life, love, strength, emotions and everything. He gives the sustenance. We should spend what he gives in his way - money, life and relatives.

Think about it brother.
 

Ershad

Junior Member
Assalamu Alaikkum again,

And akhi, why are you living in the past and digging things and making your present horrible?

You have a future ahead of you. And these things you are saying are accounts of historians and no one knows the mistakes, and lies they have made in that. Allah only knows about them and their deeds will speak for them in the hereafter.

For you, it's your deeds. Why worry about their deeds? What has that got to do with today?
 
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