Interesting Demographics

Mohsin

abdu'Allah
:salam2:

When I was at college taking classes in Statistics, I remember my teacher quoting something interesting about statistics. He said that its said that there are three kinds of lies: lies, danmed lies and STATISTICS. :rolleyes:

But lies aside its true that we have fallen backwards but the reason is not the materialistic backwardness. On the contrary the reason is that we fell backward and fell apart when we became materialistic. When we left the basics, when we became hypocrits, when we became devided and left the thing which united us and which still can unite us but we first need to make taubah and have to become sincere in our intentions.
 

warda A

Sister
:salam2:

The only way we can attain that lost glory as some call it is by changing ourselves, get back to religion and aqeeda follow all rules by starting within ourselves first.
The rulers wont change because the people are complacent, but because people are so materialistic they think they are happy and do not need to change which is actually a big problem
Statistics have always been lies, they change daily.

But lies aside its true that we have fallen backwards but the reason is not the materialistic backwardness. On the contrary the reason is that we fell backward and fell apart when we became materialistic. When we left the basics, when we became hypocrits, when we became devided and left the thing which united us and which still can unite us but we first need to make taubah and have to become sincere in our intentions.

that was a good point
 

Nayla

New Member
Assalamu'alaikum,

...and for more or less 6 billions of world population there is One God, Alloh swt, who is All-Powerfull, All-Knowing, All-Wise.

No matter what and how the statistic says, the fact that I'm moeslem makes me feel much more luckier than those excellent people... :)

Wassalam,
Nayla
 

Khalil2u

Junior Member
Search a little harder brother!!!!!

Yo what is wrong with some of you people?????????:girl3:: Iraq is better off a democracy set up by USA. 4,151 American soldiers dead hundreds of thousands of Iraqis dead. Thats what the USA gave to Iraq so that they could be next door to Iran. Democracy ha how about SHARIA LAW I hope to see it in the USA before I die inshallah. :angryblue: We should try to be like the Jews.:SMILY23: Some of you guys are really talking like you are high on drugs. We are Muslims We are Muslims We are Muslims. We are supposed to live by the laws of the Sunnah of the prophet and the Holy Qu'ran. The only important thing about these statistics is that :hearts:we out number them.:hearts: Who cares about what they brought to this world. We have the most important thing. The light to put us on the right path to jannah. Which is the Qu'ran and Islam. Alhamdolilah we are growing. Man will constantly try to find things to bring him comfort and pleasure in this life. Some of these inventions and innovations I use. My brother why didn't you find all the beautiful things that Muslims contributed to this earth? You actually tried to rationalize this stupid *!*!*!*!. :girl3:
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Salaam,

Ramadan Mubarark Ayman 1.

Brothers and sisters what Muslims have is the month of Ramadan. The month whereby we are united. We wish nothing but the best for all the Creation of Allah subhana talla.
Life is measured by our good deeds. We are told not to let our left hand know the kindness that our right hand has given.
Muslims have a greater responsibility. We strive to rend the veils of ignorance that the desires of the duyna would wrap us in. We do this in whatever endevor Allah subhana talla has placed us in. Sometimes it is difficult for us. But we strive for excellence...it is in our nature.

May Allah subhana talla grant us responsibility in this life to excell.
 

dna1987

Muslim Guy
:wasalam:
I agree with brother Searching_soul he has clearly shown the difference at present. I also agree with brother irish_muslim and sister mirajmom.

:wasalam:

I too agree with bits of what these there members have said so far ..

I believe that we shouldn't take all our history from the oppressors, as there is a lot of great accomplishments in our past that we don't remember and recognise.

But there's also a lot that we lack - and we shouldn't keep talking about the past while ignoring the present and future. We should use the past to help us today.

It's interesting to note that the list only goes back and talks about the last 150 years. There were Muslim scientists that understood the concept of bacteria as far back as 900AD. Adhud-ud-Dowleh Deylamy had founded the Adhudi Hospital in Baghdad with 24 specialists.

History of Sciences in Islamic History

Salam alaikum.

PS: One more thing about something that was mentioned - the Quran has references to the embryology. But that doesn't explain everything. These truths are in the Quran for us to further appreciate it if and when we understand its meaning.
 

ShahnazZ

Striving2BeAStranger
Simply put: I think Searching_Soul is basically just trying to say that we should STEP UP OUR GAME in this current day and age, especially after recent events. Period.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Salaam,

Please let us be careful with our words. In Islam there is no game. I often wonder how we can be so harsh on fellow Muslims when we do so little. How many of us really strive to wish for our brothers and sisters that which we have and want for ourselves.
I think what has me most concerned is the use of language to describe ourselves. I keep harping on and on about language.
We describe ourselves from the mouths of those who have manipulated the world. We have taken on the persona of the manipulators.
What is that we really wish.

Yes, we must strive for knowledge. We must be educated. We have to know not only the history we are taught but we must always research and know what it is we are not taught. In each profession we must attain as much as we can.

We are the people who have to dispell false notions. We have to look for the Truth and never let it go. We have to regain a sense of independence. This construct must reach our verve and breath. We need cooks, plumbers, mechanics, and farmers, and biologists, and doctors: traditional and herbologists. We need architects....teachers..and we need them to be Muslims giving to all mankind/

Our independence can only come about with our acknowledgement that we are the willing and obident slaves of Allah subhana talla. That is where searching stops and Love begins.
 

MOSABJA

Junior Member
We do not lack in skilled and educated people.

Only thing that we lack in is DEVOTION.

As prophet Predicted that near the end of time "There will be large number of Muslims but the helpers of deen will be few"

Now let me give an example .there are at least 2 million Pakistani expatriates in UK.Some 1 million or so in USA.All of them migrated to the west to get Better Job(More money)

Then there are Egyptions .hundreds of thousands of them are living in the west .Most of them again for so called better life style.

most of Engineers,Doctors produced by Muslim countries Grow up and Study in their own countries and then MIGRATE to West .Not for the sake of doing Dawah(As scholars say only moving to kaafir lands for sake of dawah is Halal)but for Getting So called HANDSOME jobs and BETTER PACKAGE.

How much Muslims out of 1.5 billion are helping their brothers in Iraq,Afghanistan and other places.There are many educated engineers,doctors but their loyalty lie towards $$$$$$$.Top 10 intellectuals voted this year published in Foreign policy magazine are all Muslims


1) FETHULLAH GÜLEN

Religious leader • Turkey

2) MUHAMMAD YUNUS

Microfinancier, activist • Bangladesh


3)YUSUF AL-QARADAWI

Cleric • Egypt/Qatar


4)ORHAN PAMUK

Novelist • Turkey


5)AITZAZ AHSAN

Lawyer, politician • Pakistan

6)AMR KHALED

Muslim televangelist • Egypt

7) ABDOLKARIM SOROUSH

Religious theorist • Iran

8)TARIQ RAMADAN

Philosopher, scholar of Islam • Switzerland

9)MAHMOOD MAMDANI

Cultural anthropologist • Uganda


10)SHIRIN EBADI

Lawyer, human rights activist • Iran
 

Aboo00

New Member
As Muslims we do not praise anything of glory that the Jews and Christians have because in reality their deeds shall turn to dust on the last day.

Allaah says, "Labouring (hard in the worldly life by worshipping others besides Allâh), weary (in the Hereafter with humility and disgrace)" Al-Ghashiyah 3

On the other hand we should look to see why we as Muslims have fallen short of the mark. Abandonment of the religion is the main reason. As such, that has led to other things and a subsuquent chain reaction occurred.

If we can take a peek at the educational standards of the Muslim world then I can say as one working in the Mid East and dealing with people from all over the Muslim world that the situation is dismal at best. Under that British colonial rule the Muslims lost all capacity to think. I am speaking in general here.

I work in the Gulf and subhan Allaah. Simple common sense simply does not exist. From an educational approach we can easily say that cognative skills are just not there and they are not really taught. If we look at Bloom's Taxonomy of Educational Objectives we see that cognition is defined as knowledge, comprehension, application, analysis, synthesis, and evaluation. The average Muslim in the Muslim world has managed to gain knowledge and this is where he stops. There is no comprehension of the knowledge, no application nor a desire to apply the knowledge, no analysis, etc. Teaching in the Middle East has taught me a lot about why the Muslims are where they are today.

Our only salvation is a total and complete return to Islaam.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Salaam,

Once again I write...please do not belittle fellow Muslims it is Ramadan.
Once again I write..we are using the language that is non-Islamic in context to understand Islam. Blooms taxonomy is just a theory. And what gives us the right to determine what an average Muslim knows. Please refrain from making stereotypes.
 

Aboo00

New Member
Mirajmom

A forum is established to share opinions. No one has belittled anyone here. We are merely pointing out what WE feel is fact and it would not be fair for you to dispel that because you do not agree. Be fair.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Salaam,

As you are a new member I welcome you. Please be so kind as to explain to me who the we are. Feeling and fact are not the same. There have been little or no facts presented. Why are you making division on feeling?
I believe that you have not read all my responses..as I am fair. I am defending Muslims as we all should. I am not playing a game. As you ask me to be fair... I ask you to state facts. Why the Muslim bashing.

You are the one who used Bloom's taxonomy. It does not address the highest prinicples of thought. We would have to go beyond the European men..and once again turn to Islam...Imam Ghazalli.
 

Aboo00

New Member
Mirajmom,

My post does not involve bashing Muslims. I think the first two sentences of my post outline my position clearly. I see that you are only here to bait me into a debate which is not going to happen. A forum is established so that opinions and personal experiences can be expressed. My post reflects my personal experiences as an educator as well as the opinion of other colleagues I have worked with in the Persian Gulf. If you do not like it based on opinion then that is your right. If you do not like it because you have facts that disprove what I am saying then present them. As far as Blooms being just a theory again that is your opinion and you have a right to wallow in it. I hope you have the evidence to disprove the theory or even debate it with "fact". If you want facts about the educational statistics and obstacles that educators face here in the Gulf then I will be all to happy to provide those figures. In the mean time you can read the Arab News and see the pain in many articles they have written. For your information, this is a Muslim newspaper written by Saudis about THEIR country! Do a search on education and schools. I am sure now you will dispel that as nonfactual as well simply because it comes from a newspaper. This is typical of a baiter. If that does not float your boat, look into the Okaz or Medinah newspapers.

In closing, I know when I am being drawn into something petty so I will let you have the last word on this topic as certain debates are simply not worth it. Ramadan Mubarak!
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Salaam,

I, too, am an educator. And I stand firm in the belief that the taxonomy is simply a way to label students. I believe that is in an inhibitor, excuse, to teach all students. I love psycholingustics and Bloom falls short. His taxonomy does not address the deeper aspects of learning. In application all we are doing is learning how to ask questions.
I am not one keen on debate. I am simply asking that we be careful with our stereotypes.
The Muslim world is not perfect. However, the question now becomes what is the agenda for education. What are we really teaching. How can we really be educated if we only accept the Western concept of education. If a society is laden with fundamental errors, if the cornerstone is wrong, the entire structure is wrong. And we are wrong in wishing that upon ourselves.
I pray that I do not have the last word. You need to continue reading my posts and get a better sense of who I am. You will learn to love me...afterall I am the aapa here.
 

xSharingan01x

TraVeLer
Mirajmom

A forum is established to share opinions. No one has belittled anyone here. We are merely pointing out what WE feel is fact and it would not be fair for you to dispel that because you do not agree. Be fair.

:salam2:
I'm not sure what Sister Mirjamom wrote to offend you so much Akhi.
All she did was plead to use nice 'words' and not to use 'stereotypes'. The first request was a general statement, and then she quoted you. Why so much hostility? That is precisely why she asked to use good manners. No need for 'charged words against a fellow Muslim'. I believe you totally misunderstood her, she did not bait you for a debate, she is just a nice and caring person and tries her best to keep dialogues within peaceful perimeters.
I personally thank her for her effort.
Ramadan Mubarak to you too! :) :shake:



Back to the OP:

I think the problems facing the Muslim world is much more complex and includes many variables than what appears on the surface.
Education is not simply the main problem nor is the leadership.
IMO, it is rather combination of many different factors that are hindering us from achieving success and prosperity for hereafter and for our worldly life.

You know the age old question every human being ponders at least once in his life "What is the purpose of life". We Muslims are blessed, because the answer is given to us by Allah the Most Exalted.
Our purpose of life is to strive for Jannah by loving and pleasing Allah SWT.


"Rise to enter Paradise whose width is equal to the Heavens and the Earth." [Muslim]
Allah says: "I have readied for my righteous servants such provision which the eye has never seen, the ear has never heard of, the human mind has never imagined of" [Muslim]


Allah the Most Exalted says: "O Muslims! Save yourselves and your families from the Fire whose fuel is men and stones." [Qur'an 66: 6]

Of course, knowing a few hadeeths will not make a person start practicing and be righteous . However, how do we get ourselves and our fellow Musilms to understand that every thing we do in this life is for the sake of Allah SWT ?
This is where knowledge and education comes in. If we cannot affect each Muslim at the individual level, then how can we expect to achieve greater goals like establishing khalifa? We cannot build a house without having each individual components in place.
Even education and knowledge is such a great hurdle for us.
To have a educated society we need teachers and institutions (or the proper environment).

The Arabs of the desert didn't become the greatest scholars and scientist of their time, nor did their society become the wealthiest by an accident.
It is the fruit of The Message, Allah SWT bestowed upon them through our Rasul. The legacy of our Prophet Muhammad SAW continued through the Sahabas (RA's) who were directly taught by Muhammad SAW.
They had the best understanding and the highest Iman and thus they were able to effect the society at large and gather the masses around them. They were the bearers of ILM.
We don't have that Presently.

IMO, that's the root of all our problems. That is why, I believe all changes should begin at the individual level, whether its through a Islamic revival movement or just plain dawah inviting our brothers and sisters back to the faith. This is not an opinion I pulled out of my head, our Islamic history testifies this.

Case in Point: When Salah Ad Din, launched his campaign against the Crusaders, he needed men to engage in Jihad Fisabililah. The masses didn't just volunteer to fight Jihad. Salah Ad Din had to first organize and unite the masses through varieties of means. One of the most fundamental way in which he united the Muslims to fight against the crusaders was by using scholars, preachers, founding Masjids and schools to highlight the importance of Jihad and educate them in quran, figh, seerah, etc... Once the Muslims had that understanding and urge, it was not that difficult for Salah Ad Din to unite and rally the Muslims which eventually lead to the capture of Palestine (by the grace of Allah).

I think we can learn important lessons from the events of the crusades.

Furthermore ( we all know this verse) “Allah will not change the condition of a nation until they change what is within themselves.”

When we understand our deen, not only will we better ourselves and our brethren, but we will be able resist tyrants and corrupt leaders. Insha Allah, we will be able to implement the rule of Allah SAT. We will be able to resist foreign influence, etc etc.. (I'm not sure if you guys know this, but the United States has been pressuring countries like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc etc to change parts of religious curriculum that are being taught in religious schools).
The CIA proudly boast amongst themselves about how they have scholars on their payroll to issue "pro American Fatwas".
Case in point. Sheikh Ibn Baz of Saudi Arabia issuing fatwa saying "it is okay to have kuffar military in Muslim lands"

That is the first step toward unity in individual "nation" and amongst "nations"
Many of these things are interrelated.
Our intellectuals/scholars have to elaborate on this subject to get a comprehensive idea of our problems and their remedies.

Wealth, scientific progress, knowledge, and prosperity will not come out of the blue, if we do not have the proper environment for such things to flourish in.



Allah knows best!!

:wasalam:

-Shoaib


P.S. Isn't it ironic a lot of these "terrorist suspects" are flown into Muslim lands by American government in order to interrogate them.

May Allah grant us iman, knowledge, and unity so we can fight in his cause and remove all the Taghut governments in our lands and make the words of Allah SWT the most High.:salah:
May Allah's curse be upon them!
 

Amir_of_spain

Junior Member
A variety of views have been expressed on this topic, i doubt we have heard the last of it, something to review in the future. However for now, lets call it a day, ramadan greetings to you all.

Amir
 
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