~*~*~Islamic Word Meaning~*~*~

Discussion in 'Word Games' started by Seeking Allah's Mercy, Oct 19, 2010.

  1. Seeking Allah's Mercy
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    Seeking Allah's Mercy Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!

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    BaarakAllaahu feek.

    It's actually for me and us all to understand a number of concepts and words while having what is 'fun' for me? I don't know ukht, the game method sort of keeps the competition so. . .I don't really do useful stuff unless it's not the usual way. But if it's what everyone wants it that way than I suppose we can. You can shift this one to the Islamic Discussion for everyone else and I'll start a new one here for myself;p.

    Whatever the majority says I suppose.

    And ukht could you please help me with something else. I requested this before but I suppose it was missed. Can you please paste these rules in the first post. So that no one gets confused.

    Jazaakillahu khayraa.
  2. thariq2005
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    thariq2005 Praise be to Allah!

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    I don't know who al-Harass is. Sorry

    Can you tell me what exactly is hard to understand, so I can explain it.

    By the way al-Iraadah = Will. The point is that the Ashaa`irah affirm a few attributes to Allaah, despite the fact that even humans share the meanings of these attributes (like Rahmah- Mercy, Iraadah- Will). However, Ahl al-Sunnah affirm all the attributes of Allaah by not likening them to the Creation.

    The main reason why the Ash`aris negate the apparent meaning of Yad from Allaah is because affirming the definition of Yad leads to anthropomorphism. And we say that even affirming the definition of Iraadah (Will) will lead to the antrhopomorphism as well. That is why as they affirm only the meaning of the Iraadah (will), while we affirm the meanings of all the attributes of Allaah.

    Read this article: http://www.saheefah.org/2006/08/18/a-look-at-the-iraada-of-allah-and-his-yadd/
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  3. jahid89
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    jahid89 Junior Member

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    nice thread
  4. samiha
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    samiha --------- Staff Member

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    wa'alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaahi wa barakatuhu

    Oh boy, I try not to explain/say things on my own since I fear making an error in that, but insha'Allaah I will try to convey what I have understood from what I know:

    Dictionary-wise relegate takes the definition of: to assign or refer (a matter) to another or others

    What it means in this case, is that the scholars of kalam would relegate/refer the meanings of the Attributes of Allah to Allaah without explaining them or discussing them in any way. Like your article described, "entrusting the knowledge back to Allaah" and essentially saying, "only Allaah knows the actual meaning / understanding of these words" ... and they would do to even the apparent meanings, which is opposed to the position of Ahl us-Sunnah in this matter.

    Anthropomorphism means by dictionary definition: the attribution of human form or behaviour to a deity, animal etc.

    So what it means in this context is that the Asha'irah feared, that if they affirmed, say Allaah has a "Hand" then it would automatically lead to giving human qualities to Allaah.

    And as for their Aristotelian logic, what it refers to is the Greek philosophies that the people at that time were submerged in. The scholars of kalaam* were also involved in this and considered knowledge of it as part of the religion, and as the Saheefah website relates:
    (In fact below you'll see how much so!)

    Hmm... I don't know if it can be said that they directly negate the attributes of Allaah (can it?), but by negating all apparent meanings of Allaah's Attributes they do essentially strip Allaah of His attributes that He has affirmed.

    And yes they make tafweedh, this is a fact they acknowledge. But what is being said here isn't that they [the Asha'irah] didn't make tafweedh, but what they would claim was that doing tafweedh was something the Salaf did [i.e. it was the way of the Salaf], but they [the Salaf] would do so because they were "too pious and holy" or had a "blank mind" due to which they did not understand and did tafweedh. But - what they now did of Tafweedh was not because they [the Asha'irah] had a 'blank mind' but because they had 'rational proofs' which they could now hold up next to the 'apparent' meanings in the Qur'an and Sunnah to judge!

    A'uthubillah - even in the books of some of the Asha'irah they would mention that believing in the apparent meanings of such texts was kufr and that the Qur'an and Sunnah had to be compared to the rational proofs. Here's some information on that:

    Source: Ash'Ari Misconception

    It's like what akh Thariq also put in his post about them believing that the khalaf had more knowledge than the salaf, who they considered simple minded people, due to their knowledge of Greek philosophy.

    Here we are discussing a typo of the common word ... Tawheed. Sorry it wasn't any more exciting or new lol.

    It's fine insha'Allaah... =) Mine was just an idea, it's a very good and beneficial thread, don't worry. I was just thinking that people who were otherwise afraid of answering could ask questions without fear, but you're right, another thread can always be made for that.

    And I will add them in insha'Allaah.

    wasalaam
  5. thariq2005
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    thariq2005 Praise be to Allah!

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    Also sister seeking... based on what sister Samiha said:

    They contradict themselves. Because, the Ashaa`irah don't do tafweedh in all the attributes. For example, they affirm the apparent meanings of some of the attributes of Allaah such as Hearing, Seeing, Existence, Knowledge etc. (Although these are attributes that are shared by the Creation as well).

    Whereas Ahl al-Sunnah affirm the apparent meaning of all the attributes and not delve into the modality. As for the Ashaa`irah, they pick and choose according to what their minds describe as 'Anthropomorphism'. The worst thing is that the classical Ashaa`irah used to believe that Allaah has two Hands, He is above the Creation etc. and according to the standards of the modern ashaa`irah, the classical Ashaa`irah are leaning towards anthropomorphism. The modern day ash`aris incline towards the Jahmiyyah more than the classical Ashaa`irah.
  6. Seeking Allah's Mercy
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    Seeking Allah's Mercy Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!

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    Asalamo`Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Baarakaatuh,
    *Editted*

    Never mind, I've found the 'root' of the problem and it's solution too by the will of Allaah! I actually read *REMOVED LINK*. It says that we cannot ascribe anything physical to Allaah as it will be something similar to what He has created. So the word 'yad' if translated as 'hand' is wrong because no matter how we put it in translations like "hand unlike the creation' we end up doing tashbiih and so kufr. He said that it's better to say Yad unlike the creation.

    Later in the comments there is this person who says that 'yad' basically in `Arabic language denotes power and that translating it as 'hand' leads one to think of a limb and that's tashbiih.

    About Al-Harass I'm sorry I gave you inaccurate name and info. It's Sh. Muhmmad khalid Al-harras. If you read the very last comment there's some 'arabic in there that I don't get, but I think it's some hadith as the reply to it mentions. So that reply this guy is called "silly" and a wahabi.

    Your last post made me think it was an `Ashaa'irah site, reading *REMOVED LINK* prooved it. THey called Wahabis are Athro-whatever! Reading the saheefah link you provide answers to my questions. And finally I found this:

    Alee bin al-Madini (rahimahullah) said: "When someone says so and so is an anthropomorphist we come to know he is a
    Jahmi". [Sharh Usool ul-I'tiqaad (no.306)]

    Cute quote.
    I got it now. Alhumdulillah. I guess I just wanted a change of words.
    BaarakAllaahu feek.

    JazaakAllaahu Khayraa for all your input and explainations. I ask Allaah to bless you with more knowledge that will benefit you in Duniya and `Akhira, and grant you Jannah Al-firdous.
    Baarak Allaahu feek!
    yeah that was the source I understood the whole thing from.

    Jazaakillaahu khayraa for that input sister. I understood every word of it this time Alhumdulillah. I'll check that link and the lecture you shared later Inshaa'Allaah!

    That err a bit disappointing, looks like you knew what I was hoping for. I must admit I got a lil excited about it. But khair Inshaa'Allaah because tawheed is a word I'll never say I've understood to the best. There's always something extra explaination to it. I'll hear that lecture in the hopes that I understand something else about the concept of tawheed.
    That's makes it two. Sister Aisya said somthing similar about being afraid of answering something here, when I asked her to get the thread going so that I can learn about tafweedh. Makes me wonder if I'm doing something I shouldn't be doing?

    BaarakAllaahu feek for pasting the rules.
  7. thariq2005
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    thariq2005 Praise be to Allah!

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    Wa `alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh

    That is a problematic understanding to have. So, technically this person is cherry-picking. Why then would this person say that Allaah is "All-Hearing" and "All-Seeing"? Why translate these attributes?

    This statement is a proof against them. This shows that the minds of these people are full of Tashbeeh, that when they are told about the attributes of Allaah- they liken it to the Creation and then they are like "Astahgfirullaah, that is Tashbeeh!", then they end up negating the attributes of Allaah. The sickness is in their minds not in the text. If you think about it, they are in fact implying that the Dhaahir (Apparent meaning) of the Qur'aan entails kufr (because it entails Tashbeeh) and in actual fact even some of the classical Ashaa`irah openly declared that from the fundamentals of Kufr is adhering to the apparent meanings of the texts.

    Al-Sanusi states in Sharh al-Kubra, “As for those who claim that the path from the beginning to know the truth is the Book and the Sunnah and all else is prohibited, then the response is that their authority is only known by way of rational consideration. Also, they contain many apparent meanings (zawahir) which if one were to believe them, he would be guilty of disbelief – according to some – and innovation.

    And the absurdity in their Creed can be clearly seen. Allaah sends a book whose apparent meaning misguides mankind- this is what they are implying.

    This is why they come up with absurd things like Allaah speaks but Allaah does not speak with sound and letters... ask them: "Who said Alif Laam Meem"? Only to find them shut their mouths. They cannot even affirm that Allaah said 'Alif Laam Meem' but they claim that the Qur'aan is the words of Allaah.

    Similarly, you see them saying things like Allaah is not a body, Allaah is not subject to movement, Allaah cannot do time-specific things. This is why one of the teachers mentioned that, if you ask them their date of birth, they will tell you... but if you ask them who created you at that specific time- they won't answer you. They have made their religion into a complete joke.

    As for the salaf, their minds were clear from the Tasbeeh. This is why we have many narrations where they explicitly affirmed the apparent meanings of the text. Like the narration where Ibn Mas`ood laughed, the Prophet :saw2: laughed. The minds of the Sahaabah did not have a problem accepting it, and there are many other narrations similar to this.

    Denotes Power? That is precisely ta'weel. And that is to give an interpretation that is other than the apparent meaning- something the salaf did not do.

    Oh, Muhammad Khaleel al-Harraas. He did an explanation on al-`Aqeedah al-Waasatiyyah. Unfortunately, I don't know much about the shaykh.


    I removed all the links to the website if you don't mind.


    Wa iyyaakum. Aameen. Sister Samiha made some valuable contributions- may Allaah reward her.

    I am guessing everything is clear now?
  8. Seeking Allah's Mercy
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    Seeking Allah's Mercy Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!

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    Asalamo`Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Baarakaatuh,
    No wonder it kept giving me problems as I read through it. That's an interesting question to ask.
    Is it Khalid or Khaleel?
    BaarakAllaahu feek.
    True. Sister Samiha helped a lot. May Allaah reward her with 70000X in duniya and `Akhira, and bless her with Imaan, taqwa and more beneficial knowledge of deen and duniya. Ameen.

    Just one last thing Inshaa'Allaah. The hadith mentioned in that last post. The hadith of Abu Dawood where the prophet of Allaah put his finger on his eye and thumb in his ear. Was it's explaination correct that since the prophet:saw: didn't say anything. This action of the Prophet:saw: is not in relation to the attributes of Allaah mentioned in the ayah?
  9. Seeking Allah's Mercy
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    Seeking Allah's Mercy Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!

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    Wasalmo`Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakaatuh,
    Since no one pointed out a problem I think it's accepted. JazaakAllahu khayraa brother.
    As common as these words are, they proved not to be so simple. At least for me when I 'tried' to find an what we can call an 'answer'.

    Muslimoon or Muslimeen is the plural of muslim. Which generally means: One who complies with the outward rules of Islam.
    On the authority of 'Umar, radiyallahu 'anhu, who said:

    One day we were sitting in the company of Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) when there appeared before us a man dressed in pure white clothes, his hair extraordinarily black. There were no signs of travel on him. None amongst us recognized him. At last he sat with the Apostle (peace be upon him) He knelt before him placed his palms on his thighs and said: Muhammad, inform me about al-Islam. The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: Al-Islam implies that you testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and you establish prayer, pay Zakat, observe the fast of Ramadan, and perform pilgrimage to the (House) if you are solvent enough (to bear the expense of) the journey. He (the inquirer) said: You have told the truth. He (Umar ibn al-Khattab) said: It amazed us that he would put the question and then he would himself verify the truth. . .
    From what I've read, a person called Muslim may or may not end up getting Jannah. It can be:

    1) A Munafiq:
    A person with no belief inside and having an outward show of `Amal is a Munafiq (those who said the Shahaadah and did the deeds but who either committed major shirk, major kufr or major nifaaq) who in the Duniya can be called a Muslim but in `Akhira will end up with the Kuffar in the deepest of the hell.

    2) A Muslim:
    Another case of being "muslim" means a person who complies with outward actions and he must have basics of belief in his heart, but he sins and he has not fulfilled all obligations of iman. But he has basics of iman in order to enter Jannah.

    So A Muslim has Islam but he lacks Imaan, however he has Asl al-Iman; that's what is required for a person to become a muslim, because he has the root of iman.

    Allaah says in the Qu'ran (what is interpreted as):
    قَالَتِ الْأَعْرَابُ آمَنَّا قُل لَّمْ تُؤْمِنُوا وَلَكِن قُولُوا أَسْلَمْنَا وَلَمَّا يَدْخُلِ الْإِيمَانُ فِي قُلُوبِكُمْ وَإِن تُطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ لَا يَلِتْكُم مِّنْ أَعْمَالِكُمْ شَيْئًا إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ
    The bedouins say: "We believe." Say: "You believe not but you only say, 'We have surrendered (in Islâm),' for Faith has not yet entered your hearts. But if you obey Allâh and His Messenger (SAW), He will not decrease anything in reward for your deeds. Verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most
    Merciful."
    (Al-Hujurat 49)​

    Mu'mineen or mu'minoon is a plular form of mu'min. Mu'min generally means: One who complies with the inward (Imaan) and outward (deeds) rules of Islam.

    From the hadith. . .

    He (the inquirer) said: Inform me about Iman (faith). He (the Holy Prophet) replied: That you affirm your faith in Allah, in His angels, in His Books, in His Apostles, in the Day of Judgment, and you affirm your faith in the Divine Decree about good and evil. He (the inquirer) said: You have told the truth. (Sahih muslim Book #001, Hadith #0001)
    Mu'min is a person who is balanced. Those who besides asl al-iman has also combined "wajib al-iman". That means he performs all obligatory actions and abstain from all haram. That person is a real mu'min. He will enter Jannah without a punishment.

    Dr. Israr explains it beautifully. He said after the five pillar of Islam, two more things are required to make a Muslim a mu'min. 1) Imaan and 2) Jihaad in his actions (against munkar). The first Characteristic is mentioned in (Surah Anfaal: verse 2-4)

    إِنَّمَا الْمُؤْمِنُونَ الَّذِينَ إِذَا ذُكِرَ اللَّـهُ وَجِلَتْ قُلُوبُهُمْ وَإِذَا تُلِيَتْ عَلَيْهِمْ آيَاتُهُ زَادَتْهُمْ إِيمَانًا وَعَلَىٰ رَبِّهِمْ يَتَوَكَّلُونَ ﴿٢﴾ الَّذِينَ يُقِيمُونَ الصَّلَاةَ وَمِمَّا رَزَقْنَاهُمْ يُنفِقُونَ ﴿٣﴾ أُولَـٰئِكَ هُمُ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ حَقًّا ۚ لَّهُمْ دَرَجَاتٌ عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ وَمَغْفِرَةٌ وَرِزْقٌ كَرِيمٌ
    The believers are only those who, when Allah is mentioned, their hearts become fearful, and when His verses are recited to them, it increases them in faith; and upon their Lord they rely - (2) The ones who establish prayer, and from what We have provided them, they spend. (3)Those are the believers, truly. For them are degrees [of high position] with their Lord and forgiveness and noble provision.(4)

    While the second in verse 74:
    وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَهَاجَرُوا وَجَاهَدُوا فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّـهِ وَالَّذِينَ آوَوا وَّنَصَرُوا أُولَـٰئِكَ هُمُ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ حَقًّا ۚ لَّهُم مَّغْفِرَةٌ وَرِزْقٌ كَرِيمٌ
    But those who have believed and emigrated and fought in the cause of Allah and those who gave shelter and aided - it is they who are the believers, truly. For them is forgiveness and noble provision.

    Those who understand urdu: Here is the Video clip

    I will end with this quote:

    Imam Al-Nawawi (رحمه الله) transmitted in his Sharh of Saheeh Muslim what has been said about this matter of Islam and Imaan. the sum up of it as I recall it: "Islam is concrened with outwardly actions while belief is concerned with inwardly actions. Yet, both together considered Islam that qualifies you to enter Jannah . This is based on the Hadeeth of Jabriel when he asked about islam and Imaan. The fact that the Prophet (صلى الله عليه سلم) said in the end of that Hadeeth:" this is jabreil came to teach you your religion (deen)" and Allah in the Quran says, in its meaning: " Indeed, the only Deen that Allah accept is Islam
    I've just copied this from the posts of:this Source

    Next word: Naas Nass Sareeh and it's difference from Naas Muhtamal(from another of Br. thariq's posts).
  10. Ershad
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    Ershad Junior Member

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    ^
    Walaikkum asslama wa rahamatullahi wa barakatuhu,

    Jazaaki allahu khairan for the answer, sister.

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