~*~*~Islamic Word Meaning~*~*~

Discussion in 'Word Games' started by Seeking Allah's Mercy, Oct 19, 2010.

  1. Seeking Allah's Mercy
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    Seeking Allah's Mercy Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!

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    Wa alaykumasalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuhu. . .

    Jazakallah khair, this explanation is beautiful.

    What about Al-hakim's definition?

    One last question:

    Read this

    Source
    So which is the hadith from waa'il ibn hujr, and which is shaadh?

    We are girls (the three who are playing) akhi.

    Oh and Jen's right, answer the next word too please.


    Jazakallah khair.
  2. Seeking Allah's Mercy
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    Seeking Allah's Mercy Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!

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    I heard that!
  3. JenGiove
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    JenGiove Junior Member

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    Sister,

    If I'm understanding it correctly, the part that says "I saw him moving it" is shaadh while the rest is accurate (since other scholars have recorded it as well).

    pick pick pick pick...:p


    hehehehe...
  4. Seeking Allah's Mercy
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    Seeking Allah's Mercy Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!

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    And if you read the the Second paragraph of what I quoted it says:

    Further it says:

    Sh. Albaani is quoted waail hadeeth as:
    He says this is authentic and not shaadh, and that the hadeeth that narrates that the prophet did "not" move his finger is shaadh.

    The scholars in Akhi thariq's post have judged the narration from waail about "moving the finger" to be shaadh, while Sh. Albaani Judged the narration from Az-Aubair aout "not moving the finger" as shaadh.

    I hope you are getting my question here.
  5. JenGiove
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    *moving finger around while pointing it at Seeking*..."don't confuse me with logic!"...lol!I'll have to reread it over and over to try and allow the Arabic to sink in before I can get unconfused...or, a certain Brother who has been participating who shall remain nameless, could straighten this whole mess out for us...;)
  6. thariq2005
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    thariq2005 Praise be to Allah!

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    What about it? It seems straight forward to me.

    Both the hadeeth are not the same. One hadeeth is from Waa'il ibn Hujr (the Sahaabi) and the other hadeeth is from the Sahaabi- `Abdullaah ibn al-Zubayr [and both comes from more than one Isnaad (chains of narration) and both the hadeeth talk about the Prophet :saw2: sitting in Tashahhud. However, shaykh al-Albaanee considered that "not moving it" is shaadhdh and he accepted the addition of "I saw him moving it" due to the ways he reconciled the 'contradicting' ahaadeeth. There is a difference of opinion on this matter amongst contemporary scholars and Shaykh al-Albaanee, Ibn `Uthaymeen were from the scholars who did not consider "I saw him moving it" as Shaadhdh. However, one should look into the classical scholars and their verdicts on such issues too.

    Apologies- I was referring to everyone who reads the thread/ post.

    BaarakAllaahu feek. May Allaah increase you in beneficial knowledge.

    `Illah or `Ilal (plural) generally refers to a hidden defect in the isnaad (chain) or the Matn (text) of a narration.

    This is the most difficult science to master and few from the scholars have mastered this. This takes years and years of experience and extremely high knowledge of `Ilm al-Rijaal (Science about the men- who narrate hadeeth) and very very high precision.

    An example for this might be very confusing- if you haven't studied Mustalah al- Hadeeth (Sciences of hadeeth). I struggle to understand many things scholars mention on this topic of `Ilal- and I just stick to blind following the 'better' scholars most of the times... an example of me blind following (which comes to my mind at the moment).

    The hadeeth narrated by Abu Daawood and others on the authority of Abu Hurairah that the Messenger of Allaah :saw2: (and I paraphrase); the praying person should not not prostrate like the camel but rather place his hands before his knees. (Refers to the person going to sajdah from the standing position)

    The hadeeth was authenticated by Al-Albaanee, al-Suyuti, Ahmad Shaakir and others.

    The hadeeth was weakened by some of the giants of hadeeth, from them is al-Bukhaari, al-Tirmidhi, al-Daaraqutni and others

    There are two defects with this hadeeth, one with the narrator commonly known as "Al-Nafs al-Zakiyyah" (nice title to be given) and the other narrator is Al-Darawardi.

    Al-Darawardi is an accepted narrator generally- but al Bukhaari, Imaam Ahmad and others weaken him when he narrates from his shaykh (in this case is "Al-Nafs al-Zakiyyah") and they mentioned that he makes mistakes when he narrates singularly from his shaykh.

    I don't personally know why he makes mistakes as that takes extreme reading into people's biographies- but in this case I blindly follow the verdicts of al-Bukhaari, al-Tirmidhi and others. Solely because of the fact that I do not possess any knowledge in this matter and thus I feel I should blind follow the verdict of those who are more knowledgeable than other scholars. Although, Shaykh al- Albaanee (rahimahullaah) authenticates this hadeeth, I personally feel more comfortable with the verdict of al-Bukhaari and the likes of him because they excelled far more in the knowledge of hadeeth and Allaah knows best. And I dare not say that Shaykh al- Albaanee was wrong in his verdict either, as I am blind following myself- and that gives me no right to criticize a Mujtahid!

    I don't have any reference at the moment and that is what I briefly remember about that hadeeth... although Shaykh `Abdullaah al Fawzaan mentioned far more things related to that hadeeth and the fiqh of the hadeeth.

    wa `alaykum salaam

    I don't think you are using the above terminologies in the correct context... as Zinaa means 'fornication'


    ------

    P.S Both you sisters should try and study Mustalah al-Hadeeth... you will really enjoy it.

    BaarakAllaahu feekumaa
    Wassalaamu `alaykum
  7. Seeking Allah's Mercy
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    Seeking Allah's Mercy Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!

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    Did to me too, but no more after I read the explanation Here. I think I'll see to it some other time.


    Yeah in my post to Jen I corrected that bit. Just wanted to know which was shaadh.

    I read that Imaam Malik held this view and Imaam hanbal when asked, said it has to be moved "vigorously".Also hadeeth in which the prophet :saw: said "it is more powerful against the devil than iron". And that the companions used to remind each other of it. Plus, ibn Umer's narration: no one will forget when he does this i.e moves his finger.

    So I don't know what to take as "most correct opinion" anymore.

    Right, In that case I'm sorry.
    That was interesting. What I find interesting is how at one time one Scholar is a complete master of something, and at others he's in contradiction Super Masters!

    I guess I don't really have to rely on Sheikh Albaani's book only. It's a good book, but I like variety of opinions. Though the variety usually confuses me to be honest.

    [Sister Suhaanah will surely love it. I think she's going to be away for a while.]


    I want to, but I'm not sure where to begin.

    You forgot to provide a new word akh!

    Wasalamoalaikom wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuhu. . .
  8. JenGiove
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    JenGiove Junior Member

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    :salam2: Brother, I probably don't. I'm still learning some of the Arabic words and their context...the English translation <would that be Tafsir?> would be:

    Jen: "since guessing leads to shaadh...which leads to bi'dah..which leads to zina...and we all know where zina leads..:frown:"

    Translation: "Since assuming (about definitions) leads to mistakes...which leads to innovations (false practices)...which leads to sinning....which leads to (eternal damnation in Hell)"

    Do I have the definitions/context/relationships (Taweel?) correct?



    ------

    P.S Both you sisters should try and study Mustalah al-Hadeeth... you will really enjoy it.

    BaarakAllaahu feekumaa
    Wassalaamu `alaykum[/quote]
  9. JenGiove
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    JenGiove Junior Member

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    Brother, PLEEEEEEEASE do not delete this post! I need it to refer back to...and I think it has a place here.
  10. thariq2005
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    thariq2005 Praise be to Allah!

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    Can you provide reference for what Imaam Maalik said?

    As for Imaam Ahmad- then the question that was asked to him was about Ishaarah (pointing) of the finger and not Tahreek (moving) of the finger [As far as I remember]. And he replied that Ishaarah should be done vigorously- and thus scholars mention that this means one should have his finger pointed throughout the entire Tashahhud.

    Another reason why that would not be the opinion of Imaam Ahmad was because the hanaabilah did not establish this opinion in their books.

    Even the narration about it being powerful against the devil is referring to Ishaarah.

    I do not know about Ibn `Umar's narration- will appreciate if you can give reference and the narration.

    To be honest... since we all are general people and not at the level of Ijtihaad- at one point we will have to do taqleed. There is nothing wrong if you find Sh. al- Albaanee's opinion as stronger and do taqleed of it... as you are blind following a reliable scholar.

    Just like how you have ikhtilaaf in Fiqh, you have lot of that in Hadeeth too.

    It is not really advised for the begineers to go into variety of opinions- especially if you are aiming to seek knowledge in an academic manner.

    If you can find a qualified teacher and start studying with him/her- this would be excellent. If not, try study arabic by yourself and start listening to the scholars... once your arabic is at a good level.

    The latter has been done by many in the west- all it requires is: sincerity and you should be hard-working.

    If you cannot study it with a teacher- then you can try read up on some books in english. I think Bilaal Philips has a very good one. Do remember that these kind of books require you to read them quite a few times- in addition to listening to lectures on this particular topic.

    Sorry- not very familiar with the rules.

    My question: What is a Mutawaatir hadeeth. Define it, and give examples.
  11. JenGiove
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    :salam2:

    Sister Seeking, I think Brother Thariq is going easy on us. This one is easy to understand...

    I cheated a bit and went to Islamqa so I'll cut and paste sections and then explain in my own words how I understand it..I find that the fatwah's posted there are not just "laws" but a wonderful source of basic education and a valuable resource to gain access to relevant hadiths and ayats..and it's broken up into small chucks so I don't feel overwhelmed.

    http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/34651


    A modern example of this would be the falling of the twin towers on 9/11. Everyone saw the towers fall. There is no way for people to lie about which building fell first because too many people witnessed it or saw the events happen on the news. (I'm not debating the why's of the planes hitting the towers, just that tab "A" went into slot 'A" and tab "B" went into slot "B").


    An example of a Hadith would be:


    There ARE conditions set into place for a hadith to be ruled Mutawaatir and they are as follows:


    Now, there are two types of Mutawaatir and they are the wording and the meaning. The Hadith posted above is an example of the wording. Everyone agrees that the specific words were said in that order. So many people heard/witnessed it that it can not be disputed.



    A Mutawaatir in the meaning is when there is the same meaning but the wording is a bit different. Just as we have synonyms in English (words that are different but mean the same thing) so too with ahadeeth.



    Hmmmmmmmm......a word...a word....

    My word is "Saheeh".
  12. al-fajr
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  13. thariq2005
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    thariq2005 Praise be to Allah!

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    Wa `alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaah

    Maa shaa'Allaah excellent compilation by Sh. Haitham Hamdan. Learnt a lot- Jazaahullaahu khairaa.

    That has been my favourite forum for time now, although I have never posted there.
  14. JenGiove
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    :salam2:

    I've run into that forum before but since I wasn't sure if it was correct knowledge or not, I've not looked at it too deeply. Now that I know that its accurate...:)
  15. Seeking Allah's Mercy
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    Seeking Allah's Mercy Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!

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    Wa alaykum~

    Jen you so have me in trouble now! You absolutely super fast Posting abilities had me thinking there was no new post in this thread.

    I took a look at the last post of this thread from the "forums" page yesterday it said : JenGiOV, Today in the morning, JenGiOV, Later at 2:00 JenGiOV. Just about 5 mins ago and again! JenGiOV. It's good I noticed the "time" of the last post has changed and BHAM! I've got to read it quite a lot now to catch up with you People! *Smile* pretty fast Mashaa'Allaah.
  16. JenGiove
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    ROTDFL! JengiovE...you forgot the "E"...lol! As for my fast posting...is it MY fault I have no life and so spend too much time online? :)...Ironicly, that same amount of time spent online have given me medical problems in my lower back...hips turn backwards, tailbone twisted to the right, compression of the disks...oh well...such is life.
  17. Seeking Allah's Mercy
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    Asalamoalaikom wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuhu. . .

    It says on page 65 under the heading of moving the finger in tashahud.

    "when he raised his finger, he would move it, supplicating with it [9]", and he used to say," It is surely more powerful against the devil than iron meaning the forefinger." (you've explained that Alhumdulillah).

    Now in the foot notes it says:
    [9] ibid. About "supplicating with it", Imaam Tahaawi said, "This the evidence that it was at the end of the prayers." Hence there is evidence in this that the Sunnah is to continue pointing and moving the finger until the tasleem, for the supplication is until then. This is the view of Maalik and other.

    I'll quote the book again. Same reference as above. Infact the above paragraph continues as:
    Imaam Ahmad was asked,"Should a man point with his finger during prayers?" He said ,"Yes vigorously." (Mentioned by Ibn haani in his Masaa'il of Imaam Ahmad,1/80). From this is it clear the moving the finger in tashahhud is a proven sunnah of the prophet:saw:, and it was practiced by Ahmad and other imaams if the sunnah.

    I can see what you are saying akh, but the last two sentences he added after quoting Imaam Ahmad made me type what I typed. I was in a hurry so I didn't quiet typed everything.

    He actually adds a bit of defensive words after that:

    Therefore, those who think it is pointless and irrelevant and has nothing to do with the prayer, should fear Allaah, since because of this, they do not move their fingers although they know it to be established sunnah; and they take great pains to interpret it in a way which is inconsistent with 'Arabic way of expression and contrary to the understanding of the imaams with regards to it

    . . .(a bit of bashing of scolding for those who defend the imaam when they want and leave them as they desire, then). . .

    Further the hadeeth thay he would not move his finger does not have an authentic isnaad, as I have explained in Da'eef Abi Daawood (175). Even if it were authentic it is negatory, while the above hadeeth is affirmatory: the affirmatory takes precedence over the negatory , as is well known amongst the scholars.

    yes, I think I misunderstood that one before.

    It's about Pointing too I think, even though it's under the "moving the finger in tashahhud" heading.

    Page 65 foot note for the 6th hadith ( which is:. . .point with finger adjacent to the thumb towards the qiblah, and fix his sight on it (i.e the finger)[6])

    Foot note for [6]:

    Muslim, Abu 'Awaanah and Ibn khuzaimah. Humaidi(13/1) and Abu Ya'laa(275/2) added with the saheeh sanad on the authority of Ibn 'Umer:"and this is the shooting of the devil; no-one will forget when he does this", and Humaidi raised his finger. Humaidi also said that Muslim bin Abi Maryam said," A man related to me that in a church in syria, he saw images of the Prophets depicted like this," and Humaidi raise his finger. This is an extremely strange remark, but it's sanad up to "the man" is saheeh.

    ^That one is interesting and Strange as the Sheikh said.


    Inshaa'Allaah. I'm actullay bit more than just concious of bid'aahs now that I came to know that my ancestral practices and ideology has many of them. So I just want to do my best to make sure I'm not moving on a path 180 degree opposite of that of the Sunnah.



    Fiqhi stuff is usually confusing, I like this better. It "is" confusing at times but interesting all the same.

    Jazaakallah khair for your advice, I'll try working on bottling my curiosity for a while.

    Finding a teacher is a bit impossible at the moment. I'm trying to get some things myself and try to understand by asking questions online. Not really appreciated by many, but its hard to resist when I've got a question bugging me.

    I can be sincere and hardworker but without a teacher I'm not consistent (one big problem!), and most definitely not organized (Another BIG problem). I started this thread to learn "something" and Alhumdulillah it's working a bit. As for Arabic, I'm just going through understanding Quraan a little first (Nouman Ali Khan's tafseer). I hope I can continue. . . Because I'm distracted pretty easily.

    I love Sheikh Bilaal Philips for the sake of Allaah. He's excellent Mashaa'Allaah. if you can direct me to some Good books (names) and lectures (links) It'll be great.


    I made a list in post 49, add them to the first post after you read them yourself Inshaa'Allaah.

    Jazaakallah khair.

    P.S. I typed the whole thing from the book, forgive me for the "typos", if there are any.
  18. Seeking Allah's Mercy
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    Seeking Allah's Mercy Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!

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    Asalamoalaikom wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuhu. . .

    JazakaakAllaaha Khair Ukht! I sure am going to read that one. They've got some real interesing discussion down there. But are we allowed to paste other forums' links? I thought BII once said it's not allowed.

    If someone is to remove that link, make sure you paste the info here first!

    A big Ooops! on my part, sorry!

    May Allaah cure you sister, Backaches can be sucha problem.

    *Smile* you are right about that.
    No, It's okay, you can cut past or type from any avaible source off and online Inshaa'Allaah.

    btw Great job on mataawatir*Smile*
  19. Seeking Allah's Mercy
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    Seeking Allah's Mercy Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!

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    Sahih

    Source:wiki

    Al-Shafi`i states the following requirement in order for a hadith which is not Mutawatir to be acceptable:


    Ibn al-Salah, however, defines a Sahih hadith more precisely by saying:

    Source

    Next word: Moa'lal. Give detailed info if you can, I need to understand this one Inshaa'Allaah.
  20. thariq2005
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    thariq2005 Praise be to Allah!

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    Wa `alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh

    I only understand (from the above) that it was the opinion of Imaam Maalik that one should supplicate while pointing his finger in Tashahhud. Again, if Imaam Maalik held the opinion that it is sunnah to move the finger- it would have been explicitly narrated from him, rahimahullaah.

    No problem. But as I mentioned earlier- the question that was asked to Imaam Ahmad was regarding "Ishaarah" (Pointing) and not "Tahreek" (Moving)

    May Allaah increase you in good and beneficial knowledge. BaarakAllaahu feek for typing all that up- I think there are many pdfs of his book available... you could have asked me to look it up in one of them. Would make my lazy self do something useful.

    Shaykh al Albaanee rahimahullaah is a scholar and mujtahid- and he will most definately defend his position and has all the right to do so. He, indeed, was from those who was very very passionate about following the sunnah- Rahimahullaah.

    As mentioned before- even if the hadeeth was proven to be authentic... then the salaf would have acted upon such a narration. As mentioned before none of the books of Fiqh from the Salaf had a even a chapter on 'moving the finger in tashahhud'

    Again, Sh. Albaanee is a mujtahid and a scholar and this is a matter of ijtihaad anyway- so inshaa'Allaah one can follow his ruling if he feels it is correct.

    The fixing of the sight on the finger was weakened by scholars too- yup another issue. Don't worry about it... just mentioning as a point of benefit- as you like to know the variety of opinions.

    Yes- but make sure that you don't fall into the traps of many people... that what they do is only correct- I mean in small fiqhi matters (not `Aqeedah): For ex... moving the finger, placing hands on the chest, going hands down or knees down etc... Many of these issues were greatly disputed by the Fuqahaa']

    It might be a good idea to study Usool al-Fiqh too... so that one has a foundation to stand on- in terms of fiqhi rulings. And when one studies Usool al-Fiqh, then one begins to appreciate the scholarly differences of opinion (where Ijtihaad is permissible).

    I would really really advise and encourage you and every other aspiring student of knowledge to study arabic. For this is the key to knowledge and without it- one cannot even study fiqh properly or any thing else from the knowledge of the Qur'aan and the Sunnah and its sciences. If one was to seriously put their head down- they can go to a decent level of arabic in no time. Trust me- I really cannot stress the importance of this mighty language.

    To be honest- I have actually never read any of his books. I just briefly skim read through the chapters of his Usool al-Hadeeth book months back (and it looked pretty easy to understand) and another tafseer book- in my local masjid. Many people have told me that his books are excellent- maa shaa'Allaah. Although the little bits I have read from his works... are excellent- as he has a very nice way of writing maa shaa'Allaah

    BaarakAllaahu feek for the link. May Allaah raise your ranks in the hereafter and make you from those who seek beneficial knowledge and act upon it. May Allaah reward you for typing all that up for me.

    Wassalaamu `alaykum

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