Kids can't be taught Quran without a Stick!

[msmoorad]

salaams to all

despite whatever objections anyone may have, its quite clear to me that without the occaisonal beating when required, most children will hardly learn anything.

in the past, when it was not against the law to beat children, even at school, there was much more respect & discipline.
now, with the TV & computer games & pop/rap videos one one side and the govt making corporal punishment illegal, there is not much chance of children learning anything.

due to ur misplaced kindness, we think were doing the child a favour by protecting him/her from getting beaten for being lax in their school or madrassah studies.
i wonder what kind of parents we would have had if there was no beating at school or madrassah in their days?
It should also be remembered that Islam is also about respect and Azmat of Deen. i feel that todays parents DONT raise their children as they oiught to and then we the results of this in their attitude to deeni education- there seems to be a lack of tarbiyyah. the ustaadh, being only human as well, gets frustrated at having to deal with so much just to get them to be able to recite the quran properly or to learn some duaahs etc.
i think its the whole attitude/mindset towards deen that needs to change.

the points to remember are :
1. The punishment should be to reform the child and not to give vent to one’s anger. If the teacher has no control over himself, how will be able to control his student?

2. It is not permissible to hit more than three strokes at once. (Shaami vol.1 pg.352; HM Saeed)

3. It is Haraam to hit on the face, damage the skin, break the bones and leave marks on the body. In such a situation, the teacher is liable for punishment.


and Allah ta'ala knows best
jazakallah

 

[hayat84]

:salam2:
by myself a good discipline depends from good parents.if children don't have any respect is due to the too freedom that parents give to children.by the way I sometime beat my children o make them understand if they don't want to listen,it's better than allowing another person doing the same.if somebody touches my children I denounce him to the police,because it's1000 times better a smak from one mother before,than a big delusion from the society after.

 

[islamdonlyway]

walikumsalam,

beating kids in islamic schools specially in the west will ONLY bring PROBLEMS to the muslim community, there was a DOCCUMENTERY on the BBC regarding beating of children by a mullah in a islamic school in britain. They went in the mosque and filmed secretly, it felt soo wrong. non muslims will see this as child abuse. that muallah was arrested.

 

[Um Ibrahim]

:salam2:

I used to work in a public elementary school for close to a year, and let me tell you guys some of those kids were so bad! subhanalaah the things they used to say and do were just crazy. My point, some kids need a little beating on the hands to keep them disciplined. The 'time out', and 'you won't get go to recess', or 'we'll call your parents' don't work on some kids because some parents just don't discipline their kids resulting in the kid not being afraid of anyone. And when a kid is not afraid of anyone, there's going to be a big problem because he will not listen to any teacher or anyone else. I disagree with the folks who say beating even lightly is totally wrong because it's not. It's not abuse, it's something the teacher is doing for the kids' own sake. Teacher should just be very careful and not hurt the children.

 

[strive-may-i]

:salam2:
I have come to know, beating is common in sub continent schools in past. Guess its overdone there, and is part of the Imperialist legacy?. Appears like it was common in Europe too in past, old novels etc highlight that fact. Now am not using that to justify, Please read next para

Infact its agreed that school has same rights over child as parent. And, and there is a big argument "on to do or not to do", on corporal punishment.
Let me Link to wiki on it. Please take time and read .... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_corporal_punishment

And having seen in school / Madrasa, I can say some kids really are scared to death about physical force, Some kids simply do not give it a care, the stick does the trick!!. Some kids need to be literally bribed to make them listen to elders, and some are naturally obedient, and many fall in between these.

Now teachers/ instructors/ paretns, there are some who with a mere simple raise of eyebrow, or one big shout of few words, make the rowdy kids, toe the line. The best of them show the Emotional Quotient, in handling kids tactfully. Few, elders get physical, some do out of sheer pride, some stereotype the kids as good/bad and treat accordingly, some others feel authority with stick in hand, few just use it to scare, very few are the beating machines. They fail to control their rage, have seen it, the student who got the beating shiver and the elder who gave the beating shiver. These few elders need counselling.

Agreed , we have seen cases, where a teacher in sheer heat of moment, has caused havoc, some have repented, others have not. Accountability is really needed in our times, there is no denying. I know folks, who quote the teacher and punishment they gave, and how it turned their life for good. I also know folks, who confessed the beatings scared them too much. Guess a mixed strategy works best. Carrot and stick..The most loved teachers, are those who thought their pupil the best good lessons of life.

Am sure this forum has some good teachers, waiting for their posts eagerly.

 

[septithol]

My opinion is that is something is actually worth learning, students will be able and willing to learn it without being beaten.

If they have to be beaten to learn it, then one of the following is probably true:

1. There is something wrong with the subject. Ei, it is false, or irrelevent to their lives.
2. There is something wrong with the teacher, that they are unable to teach the subject.
3. There is something wrong with the student, either they have a bad attitude, which a stick will not correct, or they are simply not smart enough or old enough to understand the subject, which a stick will also not correct, but time may correct the latter.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

To be an effective teacher is simple. You have to love your subject. You have to convey to the student the joy that is ever fresh in your love for the subject.

You have to respect the student..without them you are not a teacher..and Septithol you are correct..you have to make it relevant in their lives..you have to make the material alive and meaningful..you have to let the students know why it is important.

 

[esperanza]

What do they do in KSA, do they beat the kids? I don't think so. Anyone knows how it is there?

no they do not beat the kids to learn quran in saudi,,,

yes in the past there was corporal punishment in schools

but in religious classes or koran classes at mosques never

im really surprised at this post and peoples answers
when ianswered about children and discipline in mosques,people said let children be ,they need to be im mosques

and now some are actuallly saying its ok to hit even lightly with a stick to learn quran

im sorry but how will that child love to learn and feel pleasure in learning koran if he is forced in this way..children should learn to love qurann

if it is something they are forced to do ,and may have bad meomories later,as some members have mentioned,you do not know what effect this can have later

children never forget what happens to them

 

[septithol]

Assalaam walaikum,

To be an effective teacher is simple. You have to love your subject. You have to convey to the student the joy that is ever fresh in your love for the subject.

You have to respect the student..without them you are not a teacher..and Septithol you are correct..you have to make it relevant in their lives..you have to make the material alive and meaningful..you have to let the students know why it is important.

Aapa: Thank you for your nice reply. Making things relevent is important. Not being a Muslim, I don't know enough about Koran to say whether it is relevent today, or if so, how, but I do know a lot about mathematics. Mathematics is actually very interesting, but teachers make it boring, by using math problems that are irrelevent to most children in the US today, such as asking questions about the measurements of farms, or the fences around farms. These questions were thought up over 100 years ago, when most people lived on farms, nowadays, most people live in cities. But there is math everywhere in the world, if you look. Flowers, pinecones, and shells can all have their shapes described with math. Even making chainmail, you have to learn a lot of math, things like pi, and the areas and diameters of circles, are used to calculate something called the 'aspect ratio' of the metal rings used in making chainmail. Which is important, because some chainmail weaves can only be made (or made looking well) with rings of a certain 'aspect ratio'.

If instead of spending years talking about circular farm feilds, or drawing boring circles on paper, the teachers spent about $50 to buy some tools and metal rings for their students to make chainmail, the students would learn more about the math of circles in a month (and remember it!) than they do now with thousands of dollars and many years being spent in things that are irrelevent. Plus, at the end, they'd all have a nice looking bracelet or necklace to take home and wear.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

You need to read the Quran. It will make sense to you. It will help you understand why Muslims are so passionate about their faith.

Find a translation that is appealing to you. That is important. And let me know what you think.

Now.. the methodology employed in public education to teach children is political. They teach to the test. Topic of another thread.

 

[Noor El-Huda]

Children should not feel that learning carries beatings and fear. The experience should not be a negative one, on the contrary. Especially those kids living in the west, their school lessons are full of creativity and joyful, if they are hit during their learning quran, they are likely to be repelled from learning. Or they might memorise because the situation requires them to do that but not make the effort to keep it.

Children in the west who go to a saturday/sunday school, feel that they are making more effort than other non-muslim school children, and those in muslim countries. Sometimes the child refuses to go, sometimes they complain but still go, so it is already hard enough for them to give up part of their weekend, because they are being convinced it is very important to learn quran. However, to be hit is counter productive. On the contrary.

I remember I once decided to go to a saturday quran lesson in the mosque, because a friend of mine told me to try it. I was 17 and didn't wear a hijab, and my father had been feeling very sad that I hadn't yet wanted to wear it, the fact that no one in school wore it, made it so difficult. The negative influence on those in the west is too mcuh. The Quran teacher explained surat al hujarat which entailed the conduct of a good muslim. He didn't mention a word about hijab,it made me feel that Islam is so beautiful, and I wanted to do everything that makes me a good muslim inshallah. I think it was the teacher's approach that brought me closer and gave me the confidence to face my whole English school with my hijab, and have the strength to deal with it when a teacher told me off for wearing it.

The quran teacher reprimanded younger misbehaving children by explaining to them the impact of their actions. Up to this day, I feel my quran teacher whom I went to for probably not more than 5 times, (because he left the country), was my inspiration, and taught me to love quran.

In contrast, a relative of mine was hit as a child during quran lessons. He says looking back the quran teacher was his most hated teacher, and he has forgotten all that he learnt of quran. Quite sad.

What's important is to help a child longterm, not short term.

 

[Noor El-Huda]

What I find of relevence is this aya and ahadiths, though I don't seem to be able to find their translation in English. Anyone able to tell me how I can do that, or post the translation in English? JZK

سورة آل عمران آية رقم 159
{فبما رحمة من الله لنت لهم ولو كنت فظا غليظ القلب لانفضوا من حولك فاعف عنهم واستغفر لهم وشاورهم في الأمر فإذا عزمت فتوكل على الله إن الله يحب المتوكلين}


ما كان الرفق في شئ إلا زانه وما نزع من شئ إلا شانه


ويقول أنس ابن مالك : " خدمت النبي عشر سنين ، فما قال لي يوما هلا فعلت كذا ؟ ولم يقل يوما لم لم تفعل كذا ؟ وما قال لشيء حدث : ليته ما حدث ! ولا قال لشيء ما حدث : ليته حدث " .
وقد كان بعض أهل النبي ، وزوجات النبي يلومونني على شيء أفعله ، فكان يقول لهم : دعوه .. فلو قضاه الله لما كان .

 

[IbnAdam77]

Assalam 'Alaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh

What I find of relevence is this aya and ahadiths, though I don't seem to be able to find their translation in English. Anyone able to tell me how I can do that, or post the translation in English? JZK

سورة آل عمران آية رقم 159
{فبما رحمة من الله لنت لهم ولو كنت فظا غليظ القلب لانفضوا من حولك فاعف عنهم واستغفر لهم وشاورهم في الأمر
فإذا عزمت فتوكل على الله إن الله يحب المتوكلين}​

Surah Aal-Imran, Verse 159, Allah says, "So by mercy from Allah, [O Muhammad], you were lenient with them. And if you had been rude [in speech] and harsh in heart, they would have disbanded from about you. So pardon them and ask forgiveness for them and consult them in the matter. And when you have decided, then rely upon Allah. Indeed, Allah loves those who rely [upon Him]."

ما كان الرفق في شئ إلا زانه وما نزع من شئ إلا شانه​

(InshaAllah I will put it up in a while, because I must find the reference too).

ويقول أنس ابن مالك : " خدمت النبي عشر سنين ، فما قال لي يوما هلا فعلت كذا ؟ ولم يقل يوما لم لم تفعل كذا ؟ وما قال لشيء حدث : ليته ما حدث ! ولا قال لشيء ما حدث : ليته حدث " .
وقد كان بعض أهل النبي ، وزوجات النبي يلومونني على شيء أفعله ، فكان يقول لهم : دعوه .. فلو قضاه الله لما كان​

.

Anas Ibn Malik (radiyallahu 'anh) said, "I served the Prophet of Allah, upon him be peace, for ten years. During that time, he never once said to me as much as 'Oof' if I did something wrong. He never asked me, if I had failed to do something, 'Why did you not do it?,' and he never said to me, if I had done something wrong, 'Why did you do it?' "

Wassalam 'Alaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh

 

[soeishere]

I am myself a 13 year old kid who still goes to Quran school. I would like to say that i absolutely dislike going there. They hit and embarrass me whenever I don’t get a surah. I have told my mom that i want to quit but she doesnt let me saying that you need to go. Not to mention, I go to english school at 7:45 and come back home at about 4:20 and when the timer reach 5:00 exact it is time for me to go to quran school and come back later then 7. Is not that i hate to learn about religion i’m just not interest in it. I am focus on becoming a doctor. Because they hit me and stuff, I started to hate them so so much. And sometime thy are sexist too, they be saying how boys are suppose to be that and girls are suppose to that. Basically they force Islam to the kid. My younger sister who is I think 5-6 years old, she often get abusive by the teacher. I get so mad when she hit my sister because it is NOT HER FAULT that she doesn’t read it properly. I’m just gonna end it here even though I have alof more to say. Also i am in english school rn so i don’t wanna say to much. byeee for now!!