Make me a muslim!

[Rosheen]

:salam2: to my brothers and sisters,

First of all, I've not seen this show, but I do not appreciate the ideas behind it.

However, on tti we've all got to make sure we keep to the limits when interacting with each other. Both us as muslims and non-muslims. Please dont get angry and call names, or write something in anger you may regret, our Ummah is to be a role model, we've got to do our duty thus to the slightest right? And for non-Muslims, I ask you out of respect to our terms to not singlehandly degrade our members nor put them down in any form. This is not fair to them nor anyone else. It is one thing to discuss or ask about points you are not sure about, and quite another to come in judging and putting people down. I am sure you understand. We do not want our atmosphere to be one of argumentation and dispute.

Salaams sister you are right. I did lose my temper. I do regret being so heavy handed with my opinion on the show's participants. I also regret that I had to lash out at Sue...sadly I can be a bit misguided in believing attack is the best from of defence. I do realise my actions were not of a model muslimah and all i can do is pray to Allah that i learn to think before i speak.

However because i am sorry does not mean i now agree with Sue....i just reacted incorrectly! Sue is entitled to her opinions, as we are.

 

[blackivy393]

the only problem the way the show could be angled should of been, participants should try to change some of their lifestyles for 3 weeks in order 2 see how the other half lives. actually trying to "make someone muslim" is offensive. i personally find the show entertaining, going through the house 2 clean out all of the bad stuff, its a shame some people hav all that, but thats just the reality. the show is more shaped toward non-believers than believers and is effective in explaining the concepts of islam. some of the participants are confrontational but its because they feel like they're being attacked.

 

[Optimist]

the first episode is already in youtube

having watched it, I have to say it is not that bad actually ... I'm sure it will bring some people to Islam ... as they say, there is not such thing as bad publicity

in addition, we dont really know how it will end

 

[Peace2u]

the first episode is already in youtube

having watched it, I have to say it is not that bad actually ... I'm sure it will bring some people to Islam ... as they say, there is not such thing as bad publicity

in addition, we dont really know how it will end

Salam

Regardless of all the negative things people have wrote at least people got to hear of Islam and who knows but some of the members who participated may end up embracing Islam. The programme might have even encouraged someone out there to look into what Islam has to offer them.

So yes I have to say I agree with what Optimist has had to say.

Allah knows best!

Peace2u

 

[sueannes2000]

Samiha,
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I still take issue with the notion that the "Moslems" who seek to impose their religion on others aren't practicing "Islam". That may be true as far as it goes, but that's why I said "Moslems" and not "Islam". "Islam" is an idea I have no opinion of; it can be as rabid or pacific an ideology as anyone wants it to be. The problem is when individuals, of whatever affiliation, seek to dominate others. There seem to be an awful lot of your co-religionists who are willing to behead someone who converts out of your religion, and I'd be more comfortable if Moslem organizations would devote half their funds to "correcting this misunderstanding" of Islam, if such it really is, rather than trying to convince the rest of us that there's nothing going on. And please don't pull out the canard "Other religions don't clean up their trash either". "But mommy, you let Johnny stay up past 10" is a childish argument; we mustn't wait for others to do the right thing before we do ourselves.
Also, the fact that Islam is "All-encompassing" bothers me, because it makes every aspect of life religious, and leave no room for unguided reason.
And as for "No compulsion in religion", I won't be happy until there's a Baptist church down the street from the Kabaa. This religious apartheid has to stop.
Finally, I probably don't understand the last couple of paragraphs, but if you're saying that my philosophy leads to this absolute relativism where being a serial killer is a lifestyle choice, that's not true. I'm an Aristotelian, and as such believe there IS a moral law, quite apart from any religious system. This moral law inheres in nature (read the Nicomachean ethics), and as such serves as something we can all agree on, regardless of religion or lack thereof.
Peace

 

[Rosheen]

Hi Sue,

in my husband's country Albania mosques and churches sit side by side in harmony....it does exist!

 

[al-fajr]

Samiha,
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I still take issue with the notion that the "Moslems" who seek to impose their religion on others aren't practicing "Islam". That may be true as far as it goes, but that's why I said "Moslems" and not "Islam". "Islam" is an idea I have no opinion of; it can be as rabid or pacific an ideology as anyone wants it to be. The problem is when individuals, of whatever affiliation, seek to dominate others. There seem to be an awful lot of your co-religionists who are willing to behead someone who converts out of your religion, and I'd be more comfortable if Moslem organizations would devote half their funds to "correcting this misunderstanding" of Islam, if such it really is, rather than trying to convince the rest of us that there's nothing going on.

Islam isnt/wasnt spread by the sword. I dont impose my beliefs on my non-muslim associates, I just dont compromise the Islamic principles for their sake. If they feel threatened and under attack because of it - not my intention.

And please don't pull out the canard "Other religions don't clean up their trash either". "But mommy, you let Johnny stay up past 10" is a childish argument; we mustn't wait for others to do the right thing before we do ourselves.

We dont need to do that no, there is no trash in Islam -ofcourse you werent to know that. (but you do now )

Also, the fact that Islam is "All-encompassing" bothers me, because it makes every aspect of life religious, and leave no room for unguided reason.

I dont think you have read the Qur'an. If you had done, one of the first things that stands out to the reader is that it 'challenges' you, it challenges and questions the intellect 'these are clear signs for those who understand' '..then will you not believe?' and 'then which of the favours of your Lord will you deny?' it adresses humans directly and forces them to reason with themselves, provides evidence and compells you to be analytical. Read it.

And as for "No compulsion in religion", I won't be happy until there's a Baptist church down the street from the Kabaa. This religious apartheid has to stop.

I seriously doubt the likelihood of a Mosque popping up in the Vatican city any time soon

 

[Bawar]

Dear Sue, practice what you preach. I can see clearly from your arguments taht you can't stand muslims.

Look who is killing who, who has built secret prisons and Guantanamobay...?

Who are occupying other free nations and stealing their wealth and energy?

They are the ones whose intellect you have borrowed.

Peace

 

[Optimist]

First, I'll try to address some basic issue although you seem to keep ingoring them. Just few basic questions:

1. You do not believe in God, what is your evidence ?
2. You do not believe in God, what is your evidence ?
3. You do not believe in God, what is your evidence ?
4. You do not believe in God, what is your evidence ?
5. You do not believe in God, what is your evidence ?

.... you've got the idea ..

I still take issue with the notion that the "Moslems" who seek to impose their religion on others aren't practicing "Islam". That may be true as far as it goes, but that's why I said "Moslems" and not "Islam". "Islam" is an idea I have no opinion of; it can be as rabid or pacific an ideology as anyone wants it to be. The problem is when individuals, of whatever affiliation, seek to dominate others.

Have to agree on this one & actually thank you for this distinction.

There seem to be an awful lot of your co-religionists who are willing to behead someone who converts out of your religion, and I'd be more comfortable if Moslem organizations would devote half their funds to "correcting this misunderstanding" of Islam, if such it really is, rather than trying to convince the rest of us that there's nothing going on.

have you got figures on how many actually were "beheaded" ? "an awful lot" can simply mean that one story get recycled in the media all the time hence it looks like nothing else is happening. Do you understand the reason & the spirit of such a rule ?

Name one individual who was beheaded in modern times due to change of religion. I'm all ears.

Also, the fact that Islam is "All-encompassing" bothers me, because it makes every aspect of life religious, and leave no room for unguided reason.

Dont you think it is a bit rich of you talking about reason when you have not provided any evidence -what so ever- for what you believe in (atheism) ?

What exactly is wrong in Islam encompassing all life aspects ? Since when being "unguided" is good?

My experience with atheists is that they hate having a figure of authourity in their lives and they reject religion -mostly- because it does not fit with their life style not due to reasoning. It is a psychological attitude that then search for some sort of "scientific" justification. This is something atheists often accuse believers of.

And as for "No compulsion in religion", I won't be happy until there's a Baptist church down the street from the Kabaa.

Well ... in every home their are places/things were only close famiyl members will be entitled to have access to. Why deny muslims this right? Someone has already mentioned the Vatican as a counter argument.

This religious apartheid has to stop.

There is no religious apartheid imposed by muslims. Muslims are instructed to actively engage with other people to convey the message of Islam. This is a duty for us. We work to make people equal to ourselves because we believe this is the best thing we can give to them. Is this an apartheid mentality ?

Why dont you try and prove us wrong on the BASICS of our faith rather than getting stuck on some secondary issue.

And why is it that atheists -while claiming an all humanity perspective- are completely silent on the issue of nationality based apartheid ? Have nationalism not led to war and suffering ? Is it not very similar to racism as it judges people by their origin (i.e. something they cannot change) ? Would you not agree that nationalism is modern day tribalism ? Would you call for abolishing the borders between countries with the same fervour that you seem to do for religions ?

Finally, I probably don't understand the last couple of paragraphs, but if you're saying that my philosophy leads to this absolute relativism where being a serial killer is a lifestyle choice, that's not true. I'm an Aristotelian, and as such believe there IS a moral law, quite apart from any religious system. This moral law inheres in nature (read the Nicomachean ethics), and as such serves as something we can all agree on, regardless of religion or lack thereof.

Great, so you do actually believe in something.

Now prove it for us.

I think if you want this discussion to be meaningful then please address the basic 1st question.

 

[Amir_of_spain]

Asalam wailkium. Wouldnt it be better for all those who did not like the program to leave their comments on the channel4 website, make your compliants through the website. Overall i think it was a good program because it shows us what are the uk-non-muslims perception on islam, and how well informed they are about our religion. It also highlights good and bad techniques of dawah. At the end of the day its up to us the general muslim public to set a good prophetic example and to promote the deen through dawah and so that there wont be any need for such programs in the future. elahEqah.

 

[al-muslimah]

i think the program did acheive part of their target (3rd episode) but they didnt get to the place where they wanted the participants to get a very good idea about islam..
they started really badly,and all they did was letting them hate islam and all rules "no you cant do that" "no" "no you cant say that" No! No! No! ..i think they should have started very slowly step by step and its ok they could make the period of time more than threee weeks..by showing them how islam is really is.. Step by Step!
and yeah did you see the imam mohamad??!! god wallah he scares ppl in how he says athan and how he recites quran and even in singing!!!!!!!!

The three Episodes are allready on youtube..

 

[Optimist]

I've watched all three episodes. Imam Muhammad seems like a down to earth individual although I could not understand where did he get his chants from !! Sometimes I wondered if he actually understands Arabic properly.

He really impressed me when he went to the streets of Harrogate to try to find a wife for Luke !! Definitly brave (although many would think stupid).

There was some good responses in the end. Phil was a total failure. The change he needed in his life style was fairly minimal compared to others (the homosexual & the skin therapist - the two who seem to have taken most out of the experiment). He could not even stop eating pork for 3 weeks. He was behaving like a big child really.

Come to think of it, the idea is not completely novel. Many people would come to Islam after experiencing the life style first (e.g. people living in muslim countries or being married to muslims). I have mixed feelings over the whole thing.

 

[shmed]

:salam2:

bismillah

saw it over the three days... overall it wasnt that bad, somthings were explained quite well and others well...

overall i thought the imams looked quite reasonable and calm (well sheikh Muhammad was a bit baffling.. touching the lady and shaking hands with women... tut.. tut... not to mention the chanting...) but the non- muslims i thought came off looking quite unreasonable(chucking their toys out of the pram at every oportunity.. esp that lady who's marrying the 'muslim' guy, how he's gonna survive marriage to her only Allah knows).

overall i thot,

the 'Muslim' Guy: quite shortsighted and driven by his own desires..

his fiancee: 'how dare they come to our country and not kow tow to me?!! they should be gratefull i'm with their son' (resents that islam should be an issue at all.)

phill: gross


the rest: just blah


wat did u think of them?