Odd question, perhaps...

yellowFlower

TRUST in Allah [SWT]
Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

Ramadan mubarak! I have a question that I'm uncertain of to its answer, although the answer is probably obvious already. It's been a bothersome ever since, so the further clarification is needed.

If you wake up for Tahajjud, then have Suhoor... then go back to sleep, and wake up for Fajr some minutes after it arrives. Is your fast valid?

Someone told me that it is not valid.... when you stop eating/drinking and go back to sleep even if Fajr hasn't arrived yet -- your fast is not valid until the adhan of Fajr. So, does this mean I have to wake up at the time of Fajr adhan in order for my fast to be valid?

I apologize for any weirdness caused!

Jazakallah khair.
 

IHearIslam

make dua 4 ma finals
Assalamu alaikum,

I dont know the answer....but I have missed you SO much and I am SO happy to see a thread from you!! I am actually jumping up and down.......filled with so much happiness! subhana'Allah......*hug*

I hope somebody answers your question with proof from the Sunnah insha'Allah.


I hope you stick around this time...insha'Allah :)
 

Ershad

Junior Member
Dear Sister,

Walaikkum Assalam.

I think you have been misinformed. Fasting starts as soon as you recite the dua. And you can sleep after that and wake up for Fajr few minutes later. This won't invalidate your fasting. I have done that lot of times. My mother and grandmother who are always very particular about their prayer timing have also done this. Sometimes, my mother after Suhur, reads the Quran till Fajr time and then does prayer. And goes back to sleep.

Sleeping after suhur before Fajr wouldn't invalidate your fast. You have been misinformed.

Ramadan Kareem!

Jazakallahu Khair!

Regards,

Ershad
 

JenGiove

Junior Member
:salam2:

First off, let me inform you that I am not a Muslim but I think there are several things going on here. I didn't understand all the terms fully yet but I looked up some information on Islamqa for you. I hope it is relevant and helpful.

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/37943/suhoor

She did not eat suhoor and did not wake up for Fajr. Should she carry on fasting or break her fast?
ar - en - es - fr - ur
I'm new to Islam; I reverted only 3 weeks ago. I'm very excited about Ramadan, but today I accidentally woke up late. Someone told me that I can't fast if I haven't eaten or prayed fajr at the right time. Should I fast or not?

Praise be to Allaah.

First of all we are happy to hear that Allaah has guided you to Islam, and we ask Allaah to help you to do that which He loves and which pleases Him.


Secondly, if a Muslim sleeps and misses a prayer, and does not wake up until after the time for that prayer is over, then he should not ignore it, rather he should offer the prayer whenever he wakes up. And there is no sin on him for that, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever forgets a prayer or sleeps and misses it, let him offer it as soon as he remembers, for there is no expiation apart from that.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 597; Muslim, 684.


In response to your question:
What was said to you is not correct; you have to complete your fast on that day.


If a Muslim does not eat suhoor or does not wake up for Fajr, this is not counted as a reason for him not to fast.


So you have to continue your fast. If you broke your fast, thinking that you did not have to fast, when Ramadaan is over you have to fast another day to make up for it.​


Islam Q&A
 

Tabassum07

Smile for Allah
:salam2:


Dear Sister,

Walaikkum Assalam.

I think you have been misinformed. Fasting starts as soon as you recite the dua. And you can sleep after that and wake up for Fajr few minutes later.

Brother, it's not correct to make any dua for the intention of a fast...

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/37643/intention fast

In India we make the niyah of Saum as "ALLAH HUMMA ASOOMO JADAN LAKA FAGFIRLEE MA KADDAMTU WA MA AKHARTU", I am not sure of the meaning, but is it the right niyah?if yes please explain the meaning or please give me the right niyah proved by Qu`ran and Hadith.


Praise be to Allaah.

The Ramadaan fast and other acts of worship are not valid unless accompanied by the proper intention, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Actions are but by intentions, and everyone shall have but that which he intended…” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1; Muslim, 1907)

The intention is subject to the condition that it be made at night, before the dawn comes, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever does not intend to fast before dawn, there is no fast for him.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 730. According to a version narrated by al-Nasaa’i (2334): “Whoever does not intend to fast from the night before, there is no fast for him.” Classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi, 573. What is meant is that whoever does not intend to fast and resolve to do so from the night before, his fast is not valid.

The intention (niyyah) is an action of the heart. The Muslim should resolve in his heart that he is going to fast tomorrow. It is not prescribed for him to utter it out loud and say, “I intend to fast” or “I will fast tomorrow” or other phrases that have been innovated by some people. The correct intention is when a person resolves in his heart that he is going to fast tomorrow.

Hence Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said in al-Ikhtiyaaraat (p. 191):

If it crosses a person’s mind that he is going to fast tomorrow, then he has made the intention.

The Standing Committee was asked:

How should a person intend to fast Ramadaan?

They replied:

The intention is done by resolving to fast. It is essential that the intention to fast Ramadaan be made every night.

Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 10/246

And Allaah knows best.
 

Ershad

Junior Member
Dear Sister Tabassum07,

Assalamu Alaikkum.

Brother, it's not correct to make any dua for the intention of a fast...

Of course there is a dua for expressing your intention. Please take a look at this link - http://www.hamdonaat.com/ramadan-duas.php. Yes, people say that it is enough to have the intent in heart. But as an orthodox muslim, I have always said these duas since I started fasting. That is how I have been taught.
But I guess it is not Fard. I am not sure about whether it is Fard or Wajjib. But I have always done it.

Allah Knows the best!

Regards,

Ershad
 

thariq2005

Praise be to Allah!
Dear Sister Tabassum07,

Assalamu Alaikkum.



Of course there is a dua for expressing your intention. Please take a look at this link - http://www.hamdonaat.com/ramadan-duas.php. Yes, people say that it is enough to have the intent in heart. But as an orthodox muslim, I have always said these duas since I started fasting. That is how I have been taught.
But I guess it is not Fard. I am not sure about whether it is Fard or Wajjib. But I have always done it.

Allah Knows the best!

Regards,

Ershad

Wa `alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaah

May Allaah make this ramadaan a blessing for you and a means of going closer to the Owner of the Heavens and the Earth.

Firstly, every act of worship in Islaam is based on 'sound' evidence and not what a website quotes.

Secondly, having said that- it is important that we as 'orthodox' muslims must follow what is confirmed to be authentic on the Messenger of Allaah :saw2:.

BaarakAllaahu feek
Wassalaamu `alaykum
 

Janaan

ربنا اغفر لنا ذنوبنا
Staff member
Dear Sister Tabassum07,

Assalamu Alaikkum.



Of course there is a dua for expressing your intention. Please take a look at this link - http://www.hamdonaat.com/ramadan-duas.php. Yes, people say that it is enough to have the intent in heart. But as an orthodox muslim, I have always said these duas since I started fasting. That is how I have been taught.
But I guess it is not Fard. I am not sure about whether it is Fard or Wajjib. But I have always done it.

Allah Knows the best!

Regards,

Ershad

As-salaamu `alaik, brother!

Forgive me, I may be wrong...but you posted a vid for brother 'truthseeker' in his thread concerning Caliphate, earlier right? I'm fairly sure I saw it but when I went to double check again, it was not there.. perhaps a mod removed it? Anyways, brother I just wanted to inform you to be *very* careful who you take knowledge from, Insha'Allaah! There is so much division happening within our ummah nowadays wallah. Each one is coming up with their own Islamic-laws claiming it to be the 'correct' one. That guy(or "shaykh" as they called him) in the vid you posted for the brother is highly misguiding, Subhanallaah! There's another vid of his that I saw on YouTube and he talks about how if one Loves Allaah, He grants them "Godly attributes" and crazy unheard of stuff...na`uudhu Billaah. And now, you're telling the sister that one makes a "du`a" in order for their fast to be valid.. Subhanallaah! So do you also make that "du`aa" before you begin praying ? Forgive me, don't really mean to be rude but please please try and get your facts straighten out before you advice someone... May Allaah SWT's guidance be with us all in times of fitnah.

*Ukhty, (thread-starter) perhaps you can ask the person who told you that to provide their daleel ? I have not heard of such thing, so I can't really say they're wrong or right. However, I have not heard of `Ulemaa's objecting to sleeping after eating suhuur and waking up after Fajr passes, either. Though prayer should be prayed at it's appointed time(As-salaatu `alaa waqtihaa), one is allowed to pray right after they awake if they'd been asleep through it. Somewhere in the posts above me, it's stated that it's all about the Intentions. The first hadeeth(if I remember correctly) in Arba`iin an-nawawi is narrated by ameer-ul-mu'mineen, `Umar(r.a). It starts with "Innama-al-a`maalu binniyaat.." So what counts is the intentions you make before doing an action...
 

Ershad

Junior Member
:wasalam:
And now, you're telling the sister that one makes a "du`a" in order for their fast to be valid.. Subhanallaah! So do you also make that "du`aa" before you begin praying ? Forgive me, don't really mean to be rude but please please try and get your facts straighten out before you advice someone... May Allaah SWT's guidance be with us all in times of fitnah.

Dear sister,

As far as I know I am try to give the right knowledge and speak the fact and truth. Yes, that previous video was not right and I did that because I didn't know him. It was because of my ignorance. But, as far as this question in the thread is concerned, you are misquoting me. I am not trying to offend you but if you read my previous post, I said that I don't know if it is Fard or Wajjib but I do it. Yes, I say these du'as before I start and finish my fast. If you read the meanings of those dua's, it stands for expressing my intention to fast in Allah's name. The intention is important. I do it through dua. I never ever said that not saying the dua would invalidate her fast. Islam is a religion which sees the intention. Allah only sees the intention.

Thank you for correcting me sister. Please correct if I am wrong.

Jazakallahu Khair!

Regards,

Ershad
 

Ershad

Junior Member
Wa `alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaah

May Allaah make this ramadaan a blessing for you and a means of going closer to the Owner of the Heavens and the Earth.

Firstly, every act of worship in Islaam is based on 'sound' evidence and not what a website quotes.

Secondly, having said that- it is important that we as 'orthodox' muslims must follow what is confirmed to be authentic on the Messenger of Allaah :saw2:.

BaarakAllaahu feek
Wassalaamu `alaykum

Dear Brother,

:wasalam:

I agree with you that we cannot go with what some website say. I am not promoting the website too. But it is the opinion of most people. Every article I go through asks me to say dua' or remember Allah before I start my fast (http://www.productiveramadan.com/the-ultimate-dining-etiquettes-for-ramadan-part-1/). And it makes sense to me because we are fasting for Allah. I started saying these dua even before I had access to internet. So my knowledge is not restricted to internet but I have got all this from my mother and grandfather and I believe they followed Qura'n. And I never said these dua's are Fard. Please don't get me wrong.

Please forgive me if I am wrong. I am learning too. I am not an expert. But whatever I know I try to correct it and spread the knowledge.

Jazakallahu Khair!
 

Tabassum07

Smile for Allah
Dear Brother,

And it makes sense to me because we are fasting for Allah. I started saying these dua even before I had access to internet. So my knowledge is not restricted to internet but I have got all this from my mother and grandfather and I believe they followed Qura'n. And I never said these dua's are Fard. Please don't get me wrong.

Please forgive me if I am wrong. I am learning too. I am not an expert. But whatever I know I try to correct it and spread the knowledge.

Jazakallahu Khair!

Brother, please go through the following information carefully. It clearly states that uttering intentions aloud is something not in the Quran or Sunnah... which makes it a bidah (innovation).

Should a Muslim utter the intention (niyyah) when he starts to do an act of worship, such as saying, “I intend to do wudoo’”, “I intend to pray”, “I intend to fast” and so on?


Praise be to Allaah.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah was asked about the intention when starting to do an act of worship such as praying etc., do we need to utter it verbally, such as saying, “I intend to pray, I intend to fast”?

He replied:

Praise be to Allaah.

The intention of purifying oneself by doing wudoo’ ghusl or tayammum, of praying, fasting, paying zakaah, offering kafaarah (expiation) and other acts of worship does not need to be uttered verbally, according to the consensus of the imaams of Islam. Rather the place of intention is the heart, according to the consensus among them. If a person utters something by mistake that goes against what is in his heart, then what counts is what he intended, not what he said.

No one has mentioned any difference of opinion concerning this matter, except that some of the later followers of al-Shaafa’i expressed approval of that, but some of the leaders of this madhhab said that this was wrong. But in the dispute among the scholars as to whether it is mustahabb to utter one’s intention, there are two points of view. Some of the companions of Abu Haneefah, al-Shaafa’i and Ahmad said that it is mustahabb to utter the intention so as to make it stronger.

Some of the companions of Maalik, Ahmad and others said that it is not mustahabb to utter it, because that is a bid’ah (innovation). It was not narrated that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or his Sahaabah did it or that he commanded anyone among his ummah to utter the intention. That is not known from any of the Muslims. If that had been prescribed then the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his companions would not have neglected it, as it has to do with worship which the ummah does every day and night.

This is the more correct view. Indeed, uttering the intention is a of irrational thinking and falling short in religious commitment. In terms of falling short in religious commitment, that is because it is bid’ah (an innovation). In terms of irrational thinking, that is because it is like a person who wants to eat some food saying, “I intend to put my hand in this vessel, take out a morsel of food, put it in my mouth and chew it, then swallow it, and eat until I have had my fill.” This is sheer foolishness and ignorance.

Intention is connected to knowledge. If a person knows what he is doing then he has obviously made an intention. It cannot be imagined, if he knows what he wants to do, that he has not formed an intention. The imaams are agreed that speaking the intention out loud and repeating it is not prescribed in Islam, rather the person who has made this a habit should be disciplined and told not to worship Allaah by following bid’ah and not to disturb others by raising his voice. And Allaah knows best.

And I sincerely apologize to the original thread poster for derailing the thread in a completely different direction.
 

Ershad

Junior Member
The imaams are agreed that speaking the intention out loud and repeating it is not prescribed in Islam, rather the person who has made this a habit should be disciplined and told not to worship Allaah by following bid’ah and not to disturb others by raising his voice. And Allaah knows best.

Dear Sister,

I read your article. I am happy that we are doing this discussion because it is important to clear small doubts like this, though the thread starter had a different question. Quoting your article, bid'ah (innovation) is only "raise the voice or read it loud and repeating". Correct me if I am wrong. How I do it is, just few minutes before I finish the fast, I pray silently like whispers. No one else hears it. Then I say the dua, again, whispering. No one else hears it. Do you think it is a bid'ah? Because if you say so I will be surprised. I have been saying this since I was a child and my parents, family, and also my great grandfather, who was a imaam used to say this. Please clarify. Again I am not saying it is Fard, but I believe it is not bid'ah atleast not according to your article. And I checked with Sunnah. Some people recommend saying it - http://sunnah.org/ibadaat/fasting/ramadan_breakfast.htm. Some say The Prophet (SAW) used to say it. http://d1.islamhouse.com/data/en/ih_books/single/en_The_Fasting_of_Ramadan_Zeenoo.pdf. Please Clarify

Jazakallahu Khair!
 

Janaan

ربنا اغفر لنا ذنوبنا
Staff member
^Brother you stated that 'fasting starts as soon as one makes du‘aa', did you not? So if one fails to make that 'du`aa', then their fast "does not start"... Thus making it invalid to fast without it.. That's sorta how I understood what you said.
Yes it's not obligatory(fard) nor is it necessary(waajib) to do this "du`aa(reciting intentions outloud)" It becomes bid`ah since there's no proof of the prophet doing it..

As for the du`aa you read before opening your fast.. I'm lost. What exactly do you mean by du`aa? Earlier you called the act of 'reciting ones niyyah outloud' du`aa.. But now do you mean to say that you 'whisper' the suplication for opening the fast(Allahumma inni laka sumtu.../dhahaba adh-dham'u wabtalatil `uruuq...)? Or you whisper your 'niyyah' for opening your fast?


^Brother, perhaps you could start your own thread with questions you have ? Because we're really going off topic here... Apolagies, sister.(thread-starter):)
 

Ershad

Junior Member
^Brother you stated that 'fasting starts as soon as one makes du‘aa', did you not? So if one fails to make that 'du`aa', then their fast "does not start"... Thus making it invalid to fast without it.. That's sorta how I understood what you said.
Yes it's not obligatory(fard) nor is it necessary(waajib) to do this "du`aa(reciting intentions outloud)" It becomes bid`ah since there's no proof of the prophet doing it..

As for the du`aa you read before opening your fast.. I'm lost. What exactly do you mean by du`aa? Earlier you called the act of 'reciting ones niyyah outloud' du`aa.. But now do you mean to say that you 'whisper' the suplication for opening the fast(Allahumma inni laka sumtu.../dhahaba adh-dham'u wabtalatil `uruuq...)? Or you whisper your 'niyyah' for opening your fast?


^Brother, perhaps you could start your own thread with questions you have ? Because we're really going off topic here... Apolagies, sister.(thread-starter):)

Dear Sister,

I think you misunderstood me before. The fasting starts as soon as you make a intention that you want to do it. Either you say in your language or use the du'a, doesn't matter. I never meant to say that I read the du'a outloud and if you check the meaning of du'a, it exactly means expressing your intend to fast. As you pointed out, this is what I say when I finish the fast "Allahumma inni laka sumtu wa bika aamantu wa 'ala rizq-ika aftarthu". And I whisper it. And I never asked a question or have doubt in what I am doing, though I am sorry that the thread is going off topic. And some articles say that Prophet used to say that du'a (like the one I posted before). So, I don't think it is a bida'h. If you want I can start my own thread for this. But, I think it is due to misunderstanding and I made my point clear here.

Allah knows the best.

Jazakallahu Khair!
 
Top