allah is with me
Rabana Wa laqal Hamd
well yes ofcourse a man before marrying a 2nd wife he needs the permission if the 1st wife and apart from being fair? hear fair means having equality with all the wives
Question about 4 wives in Islam
- Thread starter slaveofAllah88
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well yes ofcourse a man before marrying a 2nd wife he needs the permission if the 1st wife and apart from being fair? hear fair means having equality with all the wives
xSharingan01x
TraVeLer
:salam2:
A wonderful post as usual, kudos to you sister Lana.
I didn't want to post this, but I think this is relevant.
Recently I met a sister from Syria at school through a friend of mine (for academic reasons, so don't get any ideas. ). I was helping them both with English since they are taking introductory English classes (ESL) and in return they were helping me with Arabic.
This sister has been living in the United States for the past 6months. Her husband (soon to be ex), married her in Syria where they had 2 kids, afterwords they moved to the States. She has 2 year old son and 6 month old daughter, I believe.
About 3 months ago, her husband told her that he needed to go back to Syria, because "he is not feeling well, he needs to see his family, take a month break, etc..". He promised to provide for the family while he is away.
When he went to Syria he married another sister from Lebanon and did not even tell her. He returned to USA shared her bed and continued to live as usual and eventually the sister found out about the second marriage.
The sister went to the Masjid I attend to consult the Imam, the very next day the husband and his brother also went to the masjid and said many vile things about her to the imam.
They both eventually agreed to settle for a divorce. When the sister went to the court to file divorce paper she took the husband car (which was given to her), while she was at the court the husband called a towing company and towed the car away. The court ordered the husband to pay $900 a month child support, and the brother apparently lied to the court about his income (even though he owns an used car dealership). He hasn't paid the child support for the first month yet.
SubhanAllah! Marrying more than one wife does not mean the above!! I feel so bad for the sister. She is here by herself , doesn't know very good English, doesn't have a job, and last I saw her she was buying medicine for her kids and the husband is nowhere to be found! He completely abandoned his responsibility toward the kids. Surprisingly enough, the husband is a regular Masjid goer.
Sorry I'm not very good at telling stories as you can tell*
abu'muhammad
Junior Member
Now if I ask thee an Indian man, would you marry a widow with kids as your only wife?
As I am married, this is not possible.
Is this a question, your conclusion, your inference or qayaas from any matter. I read the thread still I haven’t got idea that why you placed such a thing. This is without any head or tail of subject. Whether you have raised the question /conclusion/ qayaas , I feel the equal insult for myself, or sharingan or else to whom you have directed such a thing. You hold no right to place such a thing or ask such a question to anyone whom you don’t know, or have any relation of passing light comments. This is jittery, itching, foul, very well a garbage – good for nothing.
From the people, I see you are among the unruled, unregulated and unorganized. unorganized in your thinking, evaluating the subject and understanding the context or matter. Sometimes you write what you think correct and back yourselves with so-called arguments. You pass your own verdicts as if people here are babies in cradles and you are a scholar.
If you cannot hold your thoughts than atleast don’t throw any writings like this that has no head or tail. The people like me have deen to do, a family and a ten hours duty. You are the one who lingers on every post but cannot draw any conclusion. Neither that benefits. You turbulate in the matter and eventually lost in and forget where you are and what is the core meaning of your writing. Still many times you write own rulings. Isn’t Allah sufficed us with knowledge of quran and sunnah.
Mistakes are steps to correct and learn further. But such a thing opens out your cheap mind-set.That you don’t have proper attitude of dissipating or propogating call of islam. You don’t care for members here, rather you try to wrong and attack them unnecessarily. rather you misuse the leniancy of members.
There are people in ummah who do things on which disbelivers get the chance to bash and lash muslims on roads. They take a chance to say muslims illiterate,uncultivated and uneducated . rather they should have taken the heed from the book of Allah and sunnah of prophet sallAllahu alayhi wasallam.. These are the people by whom the whole ummah have to suffer because of their acts alien from the teachings of Islam.
Salaam,
The responses here have addressed feelings and equity between the wives. There are also factors to be considered besides the physical pleasures of marriage. These would be the greater good.
As for the sisters who can not accept polygamy: is it not true that in Islam we need to want for our sisters that we have for ourselves.
The case of the Lebanese couple. The court systems really can not enforce child support. Eventually, the men will get caught and put into jail. They still do not pay.
Furthermore. It is impossible to lie about income. The IRS is a hound dog.
The responses here have addressed feelings and equity between the wives. There are also factors to be considered besides the physical pleasures of marriage. These would be the greater good.
As for the sisters who can not accept polygamy: is it not true that in Islam we need to want for our sisters that we have for ourselves.
The case of the Lebanese couple. The court systems really can not enforce child support. Eventually, the men will get caught and put into jail. They still do not pay.
Furthermore. It is impossible to lie about income. The IRS is a hound dog.
slaveofAllah88
Slave of Allah (swt)
:salam2:
in all honesty I think by being fair between two wives may not mean asking the 1st wife permission but letting her know is important but i feel like alot of men out there might use this for their sexual pleasures to have another wife I dont think that was the purpose ... so i still think its not being fair to the 1st wife if the person marries again without letting the 1st wife know
and i want to add something about ur statement sister
if you own ur own bussiness it is quite possible to turn some income just as cash and not let anyone know about it (including the govt)
:salam2:
in all honesty I think by being fair between two wives may not mean asking the 1st wife permission but letting her know is important but i feel like alot of men out there might use this for their sexual pleasures to have another wife I dont think that was the purpose ... so i still think its not being fair to the 1st wife if the person marries again without letting the 1st wife know
and i want to add something about ur statement sister
if you own ur own bussiness it is quite possible to turn some income just as cash and not let anyone know about it (including the govt)
:salam2:
xSharingan01x
TraVeLer
:salam2:
I think you drew a wrong conclusion from my post. I'm not sure if the husband's actions can be considered 'Zina', but they certainly did not get divorce because of the sister's refusal to accept another wife. It is the way he went on about it. I understand that you do not need the wife's permission but it is a matter of good adaab especially concerning such a sensitive issue.
The man was not to be trusted, he didn't even break the news to her for couple of months all the while sharing her bed and pretending like everything is normal. Very deceitful.
The point is such men shouldn't dwell upon the thought of having more than one wife when they cannot even treat one properly. Even now the man is neglecting his duties toward his kids. Do you think a man like him who cannot take care of his wife and children properly be allowed to have more than one wife? I don't think so! The ayah of the Quran concerning 4 wives is very clear on the guidelines.
Actually, I'm not Indian.
lol, And no way did I consider marrying her! She is 4 years older than me, and I'm not suitable for marriage as of now. I can't believe you were assuming that.
q8penpals
Junior Member
Assalam aliekum
I know this post will be a bit off-topic, but to the comment about whether an Indian man would marry a widow with children as his only wife...due to the female infanticide, young brides, and sex-selection in the womb that is rampant in India, I have read that in many areas of India, for every 100 marriageable men, there are only around 60 marriageable women. This is a major problem in China as well. If an Indian man will totally refuse to marry widows with children (who, if the children are young, must be pretty young themselves), there are even fewer marriageable women available! Where do they think they will get brides from?
According to the World Factbook, in the "marriageable" age group, there are nearly 22 MILLION more men than women in India - in the 65 and older group, there are about 3 million more women than men. So, even if we add the elderly women to the numbers, that still comes out with a net of 19 million more adult men than adult women (adult = age 15 and up). Now I realize that all of these men may not be Muslims, but about 13% of Indians are Muslim - so 13% of the 19 million still leaves a rough estimate of 2.4 Million more men than women that could be Muslim. Where are they going to get their 1 wife, without even considering more than one?
Just something to think about....
Lana
I know this post will be a bit off-topic, but to the comment about whether an Indian man would marry a widow with children as his only wife...due to the female infanticide, young brides, and sex-selection in the womb that is rampant in India, I have read that in many areas of India, for every 100 marriageable men, there are only around 60 marriageable women. This is a major problem in China as well. If an Indian man will totally refuse to marry widows with children (who, if the children are young, must be pretty young themselves), there are even fewer marriageable women available! Where do they think they will get brides from?
According to the World Factbook, in the "marriageable" age group, there are nearly 22 MILLION more men than women in India - in the 65 and older group, there are about 3 million more women than men. So, even if we add the elderly women to the numbers, that still comes out with a net of 19 million more adult men than adult women (adult = age 15 and up). Now I realize that all of these men may not be Muslims, but about 13% of Indians are Muslim - so 13% of the 19 million still leaves a rough estimate of 2.4 Million more men than women that could be Muslim. Where are they going to get their 1 wife, without even considering more than one?
Just something to think about....
Lana
abu'muhammad
Junior Member
waalaykum assalaam,
To whom you have written is not a matter, whether you wrote to sharingan or to me or anyone. The basic problem is still there. Whether he is anyone.
Why don’t you marry yourself instead of advising others. You have mixed up position for divorcee and widow. And you convey ‘future divorcee’ as widow as I think reading this post. Divorcee has still option of re-marriage. Widow and divorcee has different meanings. As there is no widow in discussion how she came in your question.
one can marry upto four woman if he fulfils shari conditions for that. Then why you ask others for only one woman because she has bad past. This does not mean that other man cannot have another wife again, including her. Islam reserves the right for man on the base that shari conditions need be fulfilled.
If I will write a post of paralysed woman with two kids, you would ask me to marry her. Similarly else will have other story of woman you would ask him to marry her. Why don’t you read such four stories and marry yourself, if you have sympathy and feelings for them. Why you urge others for what you can do yourself.
The wise reply to sharingan would be what I think you would have said
“ can I help you anyway” or “ could you find religious brother for her”.
If I ask you to marry deaf or dumb or a widow as in this case and tell you to have this as only wife. Would you hug or embrace me. What would you do. You ask the same question to yourself.
As I ask you , better check and interpret again what you write.
I feel you are holding the collars of people and compell them. And I feel the remark is insulting for bachelors or to anyone.
This is the last reply .
abu'muhammad
Junior Member
:salam2:
This is the Islamic ruling regarding killing babies in womb.
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/40269/killing baby
This is the ruling that prohibits killing of foetus in womb. Most of the muslims who follow and implement deen are aware of this ruling. Those who don’t know ask scholars and know rulings. Muslims don’t do such killings here or elsewhere.
From the hindu view, The national law prohibits knowing gender of baby in womb. If someone does such sonography test it is considered serious crime and further penalized . This is the measure taken by Indian government so that unwanted killing of female baby be stopped. So that they can live as boys live.
Many times statistics are derived on the basis of ratio- proportion. They count population in 1 square kilometer or 10 square kilometer, then they roughly estimate, how many people would be residing in the total area under their survey . they have rough estimates that are not genuine figures. They don’t go home to home for survey. They also count population from voter ID, but only upto 55% votes here.
What counts is practical. The scenario of muslim people here from my life experiences is that there isn’t any problem for anyone in India to find a suit . They find match easily. There are no hassles. People marry and live life conveniently and comfortably. less Indians marry to people of other country, this is also because they get suits in their homelands. People here make no difference in girl and boy. Most of them give equal attention to both. (Ignoring the fact that there are also pople in any society that do distinction. Otherwise the world be much better place to live.) many many muslim girls schools here, mashaAllah, well disciplined and reliable institutes.
I see the people around me who marry from 20 to 40 years range. All of them get proper match. Many of my friends, relatives married to hindu girls and mashaAllah now pious muslimas.
Islamic committees and boards, orphan committees organize group marriages here of orphan children. They help man to earn livelihood. they also manage muslim welfare trusts.
If any brother wants to marry he gets a proper suit of his age. Still if anyone wants to marry widow than also he could do. Because there is nothing wrong from religion point of view here or elsewhere.
Because India and China are bigger,denser in population their problems look bigger.One has to look individual situation of Indian or Chinese muslims.
As for example,statistics too say that USA has maximum number of crimes per 1000 people,it has maximum number of drunkard politicians and senates,it has maximum [FONT="] [/FONT]number of rapists, it has presidents who believe in administrative terrorism and I make a comment regarding such stuffs.
But I am making mistake by associating American muslims with such statistics. so will it justify the status of muslims of USA. Although we know we have pious,Allah fearing and dedicated members here from USA, and many others living in USA.
so It would not be wiser to look statistics of people of any country, wiser would be to look their individual situation. We cannot measure all the people of country on the same scale.So better we make individual study of muslims instead of going into statistical data of whole country.
xSharingan01x
TraVeLer
:salam2:
Thanks for giving as in insight into the society you live in, I've often wondered how Muslims fare along there considering they are a minority people and you always here about riots and discrimination.
It is very good to know that they have established proper institutions and organizations for their needs. Their minority status requires them to be very efficient in those matters.
May Allah improve the lives of the Indian Muslims
Ameen.
abu'muhammad
Junior Member
:salam2:
Thanks for giving as in insight into the society you live in, I've often wondered how Muslims fare along there considering they are a minority people and you always here about riots and discrimination.
It is very good to know that they have established proper institutions and organizations for their needs. Their minority status requires them to be very efficient in those matters.
May Allah improve the lives of the Indian Muslims
Ameen.
:salam2:
jazakAllahu khairan. Allah help American muslims, muslims through-out, and prosper them. Aameen.
The riots and discriminations here is mostly propogated by the wicked politicians and media. These are real culprits. During riot situation the political party leaders and workers take leadership place. The media constantly show certain violent event.such events are banner of publicity, cash earning for them. This continuous event show provokes rage and anger among the people and disturbs their pcychological stability. The violence instead of subsiding down increases more due to media effect.
Here there are regular divisions at some places between hindu – muslim locality. during normal situation, the people can move anywhere in hindu locality. There is no physical danger. But during tense times one has to be cautionary.
During 1992 riots, the situation was worse. There was less muslim prominence in our area. I may say in whole state. during 2002 riots, when my parents were in hajj, I went to other city at relative’s house for personal work.and riots begun. The riots begun too there. In this situation, some hindus refuged us, treated us. Not all common hindus or mid - class hindus have corrupted minds. (Some hardly make two ends meet.) Rather their minds are corrupted much by politicians, party leaders-workers and media.
Discrimination is on the base of jobs and businesses. Its hard to find jobs here.but if once good hold in job, then isn’t much problem. There isn’t extreme harassment on job areas. Many muslims hold higher designations in jobs.there are no work problems during prayer time, one can manage deen - dunya easily.
Someone may find as previliges to muslims as they find in muslim countries. And there is a space and scope for daee to spread call of Islam here because of large community.also hindus less communist than zionist, christians.
It can be find here at places, when a muslim woman travels with hijab /niqab in buses or rails, some give their seats. This is not on the base of being woman,but respect to muslim women, who is in veil with proper manners. Some like lifestyle of muslims, some admire islam.
This are my views, general views differ from person to person. I cannot make all people think like myself in this regard.
There are also weaknesses among muslims here. They are sometimes not upto mark. not firm in religion.
If muslims cope this, then InshaAllah could be in far better position. Allah help muslims wherever they are living. guide them to right way of quran and sunnah, aameen.
An-Nisaa (4:3)
If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess. That will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.
If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess. That will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.
queenofhearts
New Member
polygamy is allowed only under certain situations such as wartime, if the wife is barren or chronically ill
according to many scholars it isnt allowed under normal conditions
it isnt advisable to marry second time if it breaks up the first marriage or if the first wife is not ready to accept it as this goes against the spirit of marriage in islam
there is a hadeet in which hazrat ali wanted to marry again but the prophet dint give him permission as this would hurt fatima
i feel dat it is definitely advisable to get the consent of first wife as many women would not accept dis situation
btw in malaysia which is a muslim country it is required to get the permission of the first wife to marry again as this can prevent any conflicts later
btw prophet and his companions took more than one wife as it was wartime and many women had been widowed and orphaned
according to many scholars it isnt allowed under normal conditions
it isnt advisable to marry second time if it breaks up the first marriage or if the first wife is not ready to accept it as this goes against the spirit of marriage in islam
there is a hadeet in which hazrat ali wanted to marry again but the prophet dint give him permission as this would hurt fatima
i feel dat it is definitely advisable to get the consent of first wife as many women would not accept dis situation
btw in malaysia which is a muslim country it is required to get the permission of the first wife to marry again as this can prevent any conflicts later
btw prophet and his companions took more than one wife as it was wartime and many women had been widowed and orphaned
Hard Rock Moslem
I'm your brother
Not really sister, man do not required to get wife's permission in Malaysia. But wife will know about the propose 2nd marriage because man must go to religious dept to apply for approval. The key is, if a man think he can be just and fair to all his wives, then he may marry more than 1 coz the Quran did not mentioned such thing only during wartime etc. But I believe 99% of man today will not be able to be just and fair to all his wives including me. Sorry brothers, you may have different views. I don't know.
queenofhearts
New Member
hi i am new here
i am fatima n i am studying medicine second yr
dis is quite an interesting site
in islam monogamy is the general rule and polygamy is da exception
in fact in many of the muslim countries if u want to marry second time u hav to take permission from a government official and permission is given only if u hav sum valid reason such as wife being barren or chronically ill
neways polygamy is waning nowadays and only 2 to 3 percent of muslims practise it nowadays
i m not married it yet but i wud never be able to live in a polygamous marriage
moreover if a man gets married again the first wife can get a divorce on these grounds if shez not willing 2 be in a polygamous marriage
i am fatima n i am studying medicine second yr
dis is quite an interesting site
in islam monogamy is the general rule and polygamy is da exception
in fact in many of the muslim countries if u want to marry second time u hav to take permission from a government official and permission is given only if u hav sum valid reason such as wife being barren or chronically ill
neways polygamy is waning nowadays and only 2 to 3 percent of muslims practise it nowadays
i m not married it yet but i wud never be able to live in a polygamous marriage
moreover if a man gets married again the first wife can get a divorce on these grounds if shez not willing 2 be in a polygamous marriage
queenofhearts
New Member
polygamy widout ne restricton can bcom quite dangerous as many unscrupulous men wud take advantage of dis for their selfish desires
the phrase of marrying more than once in surah nisaa is in context of battle of uhud which had left many women widowed and orphaned
the phrase of marrying more than once in surah nisaa is in context of battle of uhud which had left many women widowed and orphaned
queenofhearts
New Member
quote:
But I believe 99% of man today will not be able to be just and fair to all his wives including me. Sorry brothers, you may have different views. I don't know.
i definitely agree wid u on dat
But I believe 99% of man today will not be able to be just and fair to all his wives including me. Sorry brothers, you may have different views. I don't know.
i definitely agree wid u on dat
Salaam,
Sister, polygamy is in the spirit of Islam. As I keep reiterating many posters are limiting their views to lust and feelings. In essence, our selfish desires. Islam incorporates that which is best for the ummath. And the phrase that I keep reminding others is you must wish for your sister that which you have for yourself.
Many people use the fallacy that times have changed. No, the human condition has not changed. Islam is. Therefore, Islam has the correct answers for the ills of this life. Polygamy is answer to many of the ills of this life. Please do not contextualize polygamy within a sexual setting.
Marriage is so much more.
I think I will have to start a thread on the purposes of marriage and the responsibilities of marriage.
Sister, polygamy is in the spirit of Islam. As I keep reiterating many posters are limiting their views to lust and feelings. In essence, our selfish desires. Islam incorporates that which is best for the ummath. And the phrase that I keep reminding others is you must wish for your sister that which you have for yourself.
Many people use the fallacy that times have changed. No, the human condition has not changed. Islam is. Therefore, Islam has the correct answers for the ills of this life. Polygamy is answer to many of the ills of this life. Please do not contextualize polygamy within a sexual setting.
Marriage is so much more.
I think I will have to start a thread on the purposes of marriage and the responsibilities of marriage.
queenofhearts
New Member
many ppl hav misconception dat polygamy is encouragged in islam
dats wrong and it is allowed only under exceptional conditions
in fact monogamy is gr8tly recommended as being fair to all wives is a v difficult condition to fulfill
dats wrong and it is allowed only under exceptional conditions
in fact monogamy is gr8tly recommended as being fair to all wives is a v difficult condition to fulfill
queenofhearts
New Member
wat u said abt wanting for other sisters wat u hav for urself is not true
do u know that when hazrat ali wanted to marry again fatima (mpbuh) was filled wid jealousy and anguish, dus dis make her a lesser muslim, on the conteary she was 1 0f da
best ladies in islam
ali decided not to marry again in respect of fatimas feelings
da point is not all women can live in a polygamous marriage and they shudnt be blamed for this as it is mentionedin da quran dat allah decrees no unhappy wedlock
do u know that when hazrat ali wanted to marry again fatima (mpbuh) was filled wid jealousy and anguish, dus dis make her a lesser muslim, on the conteary she was 1 0f da
best ladies in islam
ali decided not to marry again in respect of fatimas feelings
da point is not all women can live in a polygamous marriage and they shudnt be blamed for this as it is mentionedin da quran dat allah decrees no unhappy wedlock
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