Saudi government gone mad!

[fatma_said]

Salam brother

first of all i would like to thank dna for his excellent posts it really dosent leave much for me to say
While you have not investigated or come across substantial (or any proof) for this, you have reached a conclusion. Isn't this same as spreading misinformation, being prejudiced and thinking negatively about an Islamic govt ?

Brother as dna higlighted their is sufficient evidence to higlight the injustice if this case. Im not being predujiced nor am i thinking negatively, rather this incident has in itself showed the injustice committed by ths government.
couldnt we ask that same qeustion about the woman who had nails driven into her body was there sufficient evidence to warrant her treatment??



"Refrain from making such statements, when 'we' ourselves (or atleast me) have more traces of jahiliyiah than the ones we accuse others of. Our salaf used to always think of their shortcomings and mistakes first, before even thinking about others.

So if we aren't following the ways of salaf, we are following the ways of .... (I hope the point is understood)."


They are certainly returning to acts of jahiliya when the poor are forgotten and the rich highly valued, isnt treating other people as inferiors an act of jahiliya (cite the example of abu dhar and bilal (r.a.a) and what the prophet said to him?

If the leader is corrupt certainly he will influence the people, so leaders MUST be upright. when we commit a sin it is against ourselves however when the leaders commit sins their actions affect the whole of society..

"However, you need to make sure that what the scholars have mentioned regarding serving Islam as well. 'Concern' alone wouldn't make us worth contributors to this Ummah. Rather, 'concern' and *proper Islamic solutions* will help us.


There are many groups or individuals who have genuine concern for muslims. But from their actions and words, they have only contributed to cause more harm and destruction for (and to) the muslims.

So before we sit down and decide how we are to benefit this Ummah, we need to first turn to our religion for guidance and see to it that our solution is as per the teachings of Islam.


Does such kind of criticism reach the people it is intended for ? No.

Is it communicated in private and with choicest words and manners as recommended by teaching of Islam ? No.

Does this foster animosity, prejudice , some form of hate, spread of hearsay/rumors against Islamic govt and it's rulers ? Yes."



So on this forum we are not allowed to post articles condemming muslim leaders? can we only direct our rage against America, isreal etc..

These governments need to be exposed, how many sheiks and scholars have tried to do what you suggested, but where has that gotten them??? PRISION

 

[Abu Talib]

:salam2:

How sure are you those X Ray scans are from that abused maid were you the doctor who certified it? If they managed to obtain the X ray scan they would definitely also would have the attackers pictures too so where is it?? There are many questions to be raised.

*How could you travel with metal in your body bypassing the scanners?
*If the rich really oppress the poor they would also cover up by treating her with no signs of abuse and sending her off.


What proof is that it was done by the Saudi Citizen. Before blaming the Saudi Ruler or Govt. Why don't you blame the Sri Lankan Govt. for sending aged woman to work ??
I know Saudis who treat them like family members with all luxury but you never knew because it never comes in the news.

I agree maid abuse happens but not physically which happened this campaign was strictly designed to malign the saudi society as cruel. If it was not justice then Allaah Azza Wa Jal will provide it for sure.

Don't fall for spin effect

 

[fatma_said]

Asalamu alykum

I didnt hope this thread would end this way

i really dont like debating with my brothers and sisters and i feel bad about this thread, i wont post things like this again if it will cause arguments amongst muslims

and since i said something negative about the government i should say something positive

the people in saudia arabia are one of the most devout muslims in the world and the way they have handled the hajj pilgrimage is extremely commendable :ma: this is the blessed cities and the prophet prayed for these places and its people

may allah forgive us all and have mercy on us

 

[dna1987]

:salam2:

How sure are you those X Ray scans are from that abused maid were you the doctor who certified it?

You don't have to be the very doctor, or this case, a whole group of doctors and other health specialists that actually certified it, to be completely sure. You are making a claim that nobody else in the world has made, that the nails were not embedded in this maid. They clearly were, what kind of conspiracy theory is this??

If they managed to obtain the X ray scan they would definitely also would have the attackers pictures too so where is it?? There are many questions to be raised.

Ah, I can't do it, how do I respond to a sentence that makes no sense. How would you "definitely" obtain a picture of an attacker from an x-ray?!

*How could you travel with metal in your body bypassing the scanners?
*If the rich really oppress the poor they would also cover up by treating her with no signs of abuse and sending her off.

Really? Did you not read the original story? (Here: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE67P17420100826). When she was leaving the country, the airport scanners were set off many times. It was another source of humiliation for the woman. They let her go after interrogating her.

Your second point does not make sense. The rich oppresses the poor. If they believe that there will be no consequence for it, why would they bother covering it up?

What proof is that it was done by the Saudi Citizen. Before blaming the Saudi Ruler or Govt. Why don't you blame the Sri Lankan Govt. for sending aged woman to work ??

There is no sin, and nothing wrong, with sending a maid to work in a country. Are you suggesting that it's ok to drive nails to her body because she was an aged woman? Or that she was a sorcerer? I asked questions above: even if somehow it was proven that she was a witch, of which there is absolutely zero evidence, does that give the right to the male and female couple to drive 24 nails into her body? Is that prescribed Islamic punishment? And can Islamic punishments be handed out by the individual, or should they not be done by the government?

That being said, perhaps I'll blame the Sri Lankan government if the keep sending new maids over to Saudi now, after this case, when they know their workers may have nails shoved into their eye sockets, and then be accused of sorcery afterwards.

I know Saudis who treat them like family members with all luxury but you never knew because it never comes in the news.

Nobody is claiming that there are maids or workers that aren't treated well, there are plenty. But do you know why they don't always come into the news? Because that's how things are meant to be. You don't publish a big news piece about someone who is doing their job normally. "Teachers go to school every weekday to teach the children", and "a police officer hands out a speeding ticket to a car going over the limit" are not newsworthy stories as they are how things normally work. Only when there are exceptional stories of courage, and good manners, or injustice and cruelty would a story make it to the news.

I agree maid abuse happens but not physically which happened this campaign was strictly designed to malign the saudi society as cruel. If it was not justice then Allaah Azza Wa Jal will provide it for sure.

Don't fall for spin effect

I'm sorry brother, but the only spin I've seen is in your post. And the spin done by a government to not pay compensation to an abused maid, whether she was a sorceress (proof?) or not. And that the couple that committed these acts have gone unpunished.

Assalam alaikum.

EDIT: Sister fatma_said, I don't see why you have to say something positive, because you posted a news-article. However, just because I'm against injustice and government-supported injustice (no matter what country does it) doesn't mean that I dislike the people. I have many Saudi friends, all international students at my university, and my parents and older brother are doing hajj in Saudi at this very moment, and they are enjoying themselves. I didn't want to add any personal stories to my post, but I feel with the general level of intellect on this thread, that many reading may assume that I have some grudge against all the people of Saudi Arabia, which is not true.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Good morning...where are we going with this?

In every nation there are fools. We can not blame everyone for the actions of the few.

Now, we all know the government and its laws are not the same as the Shira of Islam. Human beings get in the way.

We are all well aware of racism. We are well aware of nationalism. We are aware their exist the poor who are and always will be exploited.

We are all well aware there are people who are evil. We know the nature of man to abuse others.

So..lets end this.

We are on the eve of asking forgiveness. As we repent to Allah subhana talla let us ask for His Mercy to open our hearts such-that we do not fall into sin.

We are discussing sin. Let us not fall into the trap of speculation about sin.

 

[salapuddin35]

as far as my country the Philippines it happens domestic helpers that goes to saudi comes home abused by their saudi employers worst ends up in a body bag. recently their was a filipina who applied as a nursing assistant and ends up working as a maid and today the perpetrator has yet to surrender and our embassy in saudi is still trying to get an update.

 

[abu'muhammad]

There are few just nations in the world these days and Saudia Arabia is definitely able to penalize without sufficient evidence and who can stand up them and other unjust nations in the world? Not much people...

sorcery and witchcraft is haram however using that as an excuse for abuse is indicating something of a cover up..

these people have returned to the actions of jahilliya

if a poor person or one without status commits a crime they are severely punished
however if a rich person does it they can literally bribe through the whole system
if there is a lack of proof there should not be such a harsh sentence
the lands of islam are being ruled by the most corrupt and unjust dictators

may allah free us from their grasp

Assalamu alaykum,

Well to be honest we haven’t studied the shareeah laws and as laymen to say that this is right or this is wrong is stretching bit far. Something is considered by us legimate or just do not necessarily mean that it is or how the scholars take it. I am talking for the cases of sorcery and witch-drafts discussed in this thread.

I read on other sites that Saudi has no official penal codes for such acts and some people said that they should be there so that the people who are doing such acts know that in advance about that. this was their feedback over the case. for this reason the HRD has came into the picture and the same way The labanese PM has said to sibat's family to bring him back to the country. The point here is people take those convicted in the frame of 'benefit of doubt' or whatever that is. I wish that Saudi do the legimate arrangements in the light of qur'aan and sunnah with the advices of people of knowledge, so that InshaAllaah later in future that serves clarity for others.

I agree that what you are saying about the corruption . In country like India, one of the type is under-table business (bribery). In US its done by politicians more than commoners. Sometimes such things do not come up before as they have even owned media and it speak what they want. I am talking of highly corrupted nations in this regard. The point is that corruption is everywhere. The top corrupted countries are democratic ones. Having said that, I agree you have a point there that the system becomes hollow, sick because of such things. The greed of people to be wealthier over a night makes them do that and this goes back to diseases in their hearts and can’t see the sweat of poor, the agony of sick or the distress of widows.

for your comment on saudi ,Even the scholars of high cadre so have not said that Saudi is a land without any problems. I remember the same sort of wordings said by shaykh Ibn baaz when OBL issued takfeer on Saudi that it is not runned according to the book of Allaah than he rahimahullah said in response that ‘The kingdom has some discrepancies but its ruled upon tawheed’. Hopefully I get the right words if they aren’t, please pardon. Same way the local newspaper headline today which highlights ‘official declaration by Mrs Clinton - the foreign minister that OBL was supported and even strengthened by US’. I know this news has no correlation with our subject, but my point is sometimes, ahem sometimes the truth lies elsewhere.

Finally.. jazaakiAllahu khayr for making a thread and we all support the truth and justice. To be truthful and just is act of ibaadah. May Allaah direct the ummah on that way, ameen.

 

[alf2]

:salam2:

Every now and then Saudi Arabia is attacked for these issues if some bad people of a population do such acts do you blame the whole country? Forget about maid abuse haven't you seen child abuse where nannies kick and stomp on babies? Why doesn't this get hyped because it happens outside Saudi Arabia.

I would say BOTH are just as important. And in Saudi Arabia, the punishment is death to the maid. Even if she did not purposely kill the baby, she will be put to death.

But yes, infants dying from injuries inflicted by nannies is also terrible. And trust me, the latter also makes the news...

We cannot believe Saudi Arabian law & authorities are above scrutiny, this is when we become sheep rather than rationally thinking individuals. They are not perfect, and corruption amongst officials happens no matter their race, nationality, or country.

 

[Abu Talib]

I would say BOTH are just as important. And in Saudi Arabia, the punishment is death to the maid. Even if she did not purposely kill the baby, she will be put to death.

But yes, infants dying from injuries inflicted by nannies is also terrible. And trust me, the latter also makes the news...

We cannot believe Saudi Arabian law & authorities are above scrutiny, this is when we become sheep rather than rationally thinking individuals. They are not perfect, and corruption amongst officials happens no matter their race, nationality, or country.

:salam2:

In order to criticize on the judgment of the system first study it then counter it. The judiciary system of Saudi Arabia is governed by Islamic Shari'ah and its a independent authority governed under Supreme Judiciary council. The judgments are passed using Qu'ran and Sunnah. If you doubt the justice then you doubt the Islamic Shar'ah at least its not based on man made laws which can be easily manipulated. Please have faith in Islamic Shari'ah

There is always a door of clemency under Shar'iah if you would know, please wait for the final judgment. As it can be appealed in the Higher court and a Royal pardon could be decreed or the victim's family could even pardon /ask for blood money so the life may be spared. There have been many who have been saved at the last sec under the blade by pardon. I am sure you won't find this in man made laws.

I sincerely request you to study the Judiciary system (i.e Shari'ah) in Saudi Arabia and also how judges of Islamic courts pass judgments then talk about their scrutiny.
I don't know how you can bribe a person who will give a verdict based on Qur'an and Sunnah. You and I don't know the true situations surrounding the case and we should refrain from commenting on Shari'ah unless we know about Shar'iah
Once again I request have faith in the justice that Islam provides i.e Shari'ah