Saudi government gone mad!

[fatma_said]

:salam2:
Bismilahi-rahmani-rahim
i was read my daily aljazeera blogs and i came across this article...

As we know the treatment of maids and lowly paid workers in this government is atrocious to say the least, however they have truly taken it too far with accusations of witchcraft, and sorcery against the innocent victims of abuse

I dont know much about the maid that had nails driven into her body by her masters but subhanallah they clearly have taken it too far

Article

Away from our Hajj coverage, for which we are currently filming some feature reports to be released in the next week, I thought I would share something I came across in a leading English language Saudi daily The Saudi Gazette entitled 'Magic Maids'.

This is how it opened:

"We must face up to the threats from some maids and servants and their satanic games of witchcraft and sorcery, their robbery, murder, entrapment of husbands, corruption of children and other countless stories of crime that have been highlighted by both experts and victims of these crimes."

As I checked to see whether this was a The Onion-type satirical column I recalled the recent appeal by Amnesty International for Saudi King Abdullah to commute the death sentences of Lebanese national Ali Hussain Sibat and Sudanese national Abdul Hamid bin Hussain bin Moustafa al-Fakki.

The men were convicted to death for sorcery. And this wasn’t Saudi’s version of The Onion.

Part of the evidence used against Sibat, who was arrested in Saudi while on pilgrimage, were the predictions he made on a Lebanese TV programme.

It made me wonder how some of the political analysts and financial forecasters I’ve interviewed would fare if the same standards applied to them.

But given the title, The Saudi Gazette article was only interested in maids - and not any other alleged broomriding spell-casting deviants.

It spoke of foreign maids living in a “...strange world of spells and amulets.”

Rhetorically the writer asks: "Who does not know about Siti, the Indonesian maid who carried out more than 35 devilish acts? Siti was arrested and convicted and the services of a scholar specializing in Al-Ruqa’a Al-Shariya (treatment through recitation of verses from the Holy Quran) were requested. The scholar said the eldest son was suffering from a powerful magic spell affecting him from inside his body.”

LP Ariyawathie, a 49-year-old Sri Lankan maid didn’t have spells, but nails inside her body. Sri Lankan doctors confirmed 24 nails were driven into her flesh.

She claims this was done by her Saudi employers as punishment. Attitudes to foreign maids as evidenced in The Saudi Gazette may help provide an indication as to why the Saudi government "questioned her account".

In October, Sri Lankan President Mahinda Rajapaksa made an appeal to King Abdullah to spare the life of a housemaid convicted of killing an infant.

Rizana Nafeek, who was 17 at the time, was convicted of killing a four-month-old child.

She originally confessed to killing the baby, but later retracted her statement saying it had been given under duress - and insisted the child’s death was an accident.

There are also unconfirmed reports that Saudi Arabia may soon impose a ban on Sri Lankan workers looking to find jobs there.

Over half a million Sri Lankans live and work in Saudi Arabia, many in low-income jobs as maids.

But back to The Saudi Gazette article: "Studies show that 60 per cent of these crimes relate to witchcraft and sorcery." No further details of, or reference to, the studies were provided.

It proceeded to include testimony of a maid who confessed to being a sorceress, who only undid a spell she had cast on her employer at the behest of his crying mother.

Anti-witchcraft activist Fatima Al-Hasan advises fellow Saudis to search maids “for amulets, talismans or similar items” in the article.

Social science scholar Dr Abla Hasnain called for media to “raise awareness about this menace”.

Naif Abdulaziz Al-Saeed, interpreter of dreams, cautioned against "giving used clothing or food, particularly dates or meat, to maids or their companions such as drivers, who may have links to witchcraft and sorcery".

I just couldn’t help but wonder why these maids didn’t have any spells up their sleeves back in their home countries?

It would save themselves the hassle of traveling to Saudi Arabia, performing heavy household work, receiving non-lucrative pay and facing authorities who seem quite well-prepared to prosecute them for their “satanic games of witchcraft and sorcery, their robbery, murder, entrapment of husbands, corruption of children and other countless stories of crime”.

Or maybe the spells only work in Saudi Arabia...

 

[Umme Ali]

Saudi Govt. gone Mad

Dear Sister Fatma,

I have been following this and similar stories with interest and shame. I say loud and clear that I am muslim, believe in all that quran and the hadith say. Alhamdolilla. sister this belief also enjoins on me to "say the truth and uphold justice even if it involves my relatives and dear ones."

Dear sister, I believe we have not yet (even after a litte more than 1400 years) let Islam penetrate into our hearts and consciousness. Following the rituals in one thing ---it gives a physical satisfaction of "having followed" but "doing good when no one is looking" is taqwa.

Muslim is one thing and momin another. I feel we as young ummah have not done justice to the sublime messege that was given to us to better us in all possible aspects of life and after life.

Dear sister, allow me to say when all this gross zulm and cruelty is done by those who claim to be the heirs of Jannah it shames me to death. Sister what about the cruelty and mis interpretation of ayats and hadith to suite ones own interest ? dont you think we ourself are responsible for our present humiliation globally? Indeed Allah does not better a nation unless they try it themselves first.

My salam to you and all sisters who bear injustice at the hands of so called heirs of islam.
May Allah preserve us and give us the strength to rectify this wrong. ameen
Umme Ali

 

[faaraa]

Sister I am living in Sri Lanka, from where the Saudi government gets its' most of the maids..

I PERSONALLY DON'T BELIEVE ON MAID ABUSE..

I am sorry to say that most of the people are accusing Saudi to malign ISLAM..

I have come across so many stories on maid abuse, but later on the local medis inform us that every thing was a lie..

ALLAH AZZAWAJAL KNOWS BEST

FEE AMANILLAH

 

[BrotherInIslam7]

:salam2:

I don't know about Sri Lanka. But in neighboring India, all forms of sorcery are prevalent among the poor and uneducated (some even among the lower middle class). So it is quite understandable that a house worker from this part of the world could be involved in such practice.

To outsiders (especially people residing in western world) who are not familiar with sorcery, this might sound something ridiculous or a mythical tale. But if one were to stay in an Indian village or among the poor and uneducated, he/she would understand how the grave the problem is in some regions of India.

May Allah azz zawajal protect us from the evil of these practices and keep us all in His protection always. Ameen

 

[Abu Talib]

:salam2:

Every now and then Saudi Arabia is attacked for these issues if some bad people of a population do such acts do you blame the whole country? Forget about maid abuse haven't you seen child abuse where nannies kick and stomp on babies? Why doesn't this get hyped because it happens outside Saudi Arabia.

 

[fatma_said]

:salam2:
sorry for the late reply I live down under BIG time difference

im sorry if i have offended anyone but the truth is maid abuse does occur. if not against sri lankans then i have heard secondhand accounts from refugees( i used to live in saudia arabia: i was born there in a city between makkah and madina)

and if it hasnt been physical abuse it refusal to give money to some of these servants who have a whole family depending on them for livelihood, just because they were displeased with an action by the maid

i know its un islamic but the saudi government has been doing great injustice to its people especially its refugees. I pray that allah guides us and them and forgives us all

my mother used to frequently curse that government but she realized that cursing wont help a country(my mother wasnt a maid, we had other issues) so she instead turned to asking forgiveness for them and their misguided ways

amin

 

[Abu Talib]

:salam2:
Some bad then some good too exist there.
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=454769&postcount=10

 

[fatma_said]

There is much good in saudia arabia i know thats for sure but you know what fustrates me. This land is meant for all muslims, you shouldnt need no visa or birthright to lay claim to this country

i just wish a day will come when the only identification needed is your iman
amin

 

[kayleigh]

Sister I am living in Sri Lanka, from where the Saudi government gets its' most of the maids..

I PERSONALLY DON'T BELIEVE ON MAID ABUSE..

I am sorry to say that most of the people are accusing Saudi to malign ISLAM..

I have come across so many stories on maid abuse, but later on the local medis inform us that every thing was a lie..

ALLAH AZZAWAJAL KNOWS BEST

FEE AMANILLAH

You're wrong, it DEFINITELY happens. Not just in Saudi arabia either, but in other arab countries as well. But Saudi laws are particularly racist and disgusting when it comes to how they treat non-Saudis or non-arabs. Speaking out against injustices that happen in and among the Saudi society or government is not even close to being the same thing as speaking against Islam. The Saudi government/society/culture is NOT the same thing as Islam, and people really need to get that through their head.

 

[BrotherInIslam7]

You're wrong, it DEFINITELY happens. Not just in Saudi arabia either, but in other arab countries as well. But Saudi laws are particularly racist and disgusting when it comes to how they treat non-Saudis or non-arabs. Speaking out against injustices that happen in and among the Saudi society or government is not even close to being the same thing as speaking against Islam. The Saudi government/society/culture is NOT the same thing as Islam, and people really need to get that through their head.

:salam2:

Wow. So now they have racist laws ?

It's okay if you don't think of a govt/people highly because of negative personal experiences or from friends/family. But to call their laws racist, I am sorry but that's just uncalled for and misrepresentation of a people and their govt.

And also at the same time, open vilification and unjust harsh criticism of the rulers/governors openly is not from Islam either. Rather it is prohibited according to the teachings of Islam.

 

[dna1987]

:salam2:

Every now and then Saudi Arabia is attacked for these issues if some bad people of a population do such acts do you blame the whole country? Forget about maid abuse haven't you seen child abuse where nannies kick and stomp on babies? Why doesn't this get hyped because it happens outside Saudi Arabia.

Assalam alaikum.

Most people have read about child abuses. The difference is that there is usually justice in other cases. The nannies get jailed. Where is the justice here? In this case, yet another Saudi citizen has gotten off free after committing such a disgusting crime.

To respond to your comment: " if some bad people of a population do such acts do you blame the whole country?".

If a police officer commits a crime, and the police say "he's innocent", then I'll blame the whole damn police force for supporting a criminal. When the government officially allows a crime like this to happen with absolutely no consequences, which will set the standard for future crimes like this to occur again, then yes, you blame the the government.

So, if some bad people of a population do such acts, and the whole country supports it, then you do blame the whole country.

The outrage against this pathetic verdict is completely justified. The outrage against the UAE prince that hit the Afghan farmer with a nail on a wooden board, and then run over him was also completely justified. All sane and good Muslims should want justice.

Stories that actually get hyped are things like the "Ground Zero" Mosque story, where the mosque is actually two blocks away, and in reality is an Islamic Centre.

Assalam alaikum.

 

[abu'muhammad]

Assalamu alaykum sister,

for the cases, I suppose that Saudi Arabia will not be penalizing simply on the basis of merely hearing or seeing.The actions are with proof. The employer Ali sibat and others who are convicted and so do we think that they are held in custody or to be executed because of some baseless convictions? If that is the case we ask Allaah to guide the judges and justify the cases rightly and not become questionable in akhirah.

Committing sorcery,witchcrafts are not allowed and are acts of polytheism. The Saudi authorities does not allow that.

For particular cases mentioned in the article we lack the proofs to tell or deduct out. I read on other site that Sibat wrote his action on paper as the mutaween ( religious police) asked him. he wrote what he did about his job and actions.

Allaah knows the best.

 

[kayleigh]

:salam2:

Wow. So now they have racist laws ?

It's okay if you don't think of a govt/people highly because of negative personal experiences or from friends/family. But to call their laws racist, I am sorry but that's just uncalled for and misrepresentation of a people and their govt.

And also at the same time, open vilification and unjust harsh criticism of the rulers/governors openly is not from Islam either. Rather it is prohibited according to the teachings of Islam.

If there are different laws for Saudis and non-Saudis, and different laws for non-arabs then... what else would you call it? I'll call it ignorant, unacceptable, and ethnocentric if that makes you feel better.

 

[MohammedMaksudul]

:salam2:

The Saudi is a kingdom not Darus-Salam (land of Islam). So, whatever they do do not at all represent Islam, even though they have adopted some sharia law. There are good and bad everywhere, so is in Saudi as well. I am from Bangladesh and I have heard how Arabs treat non-Arabs. Allah knows best.

 

[fatma_said]

walykum salam

Assalamu alaykum sister,

for the cases, I suppose that Saudi Arabia will not be penalizing simply on the basis of merely hearing or seeing.The actions are with proof. The employer Ali sibat and others who are convicted and so do we think that they are held in custody or to be executed because of some baseless convictions? If that is the case we ask Allaah to guide the judges and justify the cases rightly and not become questionable in akhirah.

Committing sorcery,witchcrafts are not allowed and are acts of polytheism. The Saudi authorities does not allow that.

For particular cases mentioned in the article we lack the proofs to tell or deduct out. I read on other site that Sibat wrote his action on paper as the mutaween ( religious police) asked him. he wrote what he did about his job and actions.

Allaah knows the best.

There are few just nations in the world these days and Saudia Arabia is definitely able to penalize without sufficient evidence and who can stand up them and other unjust nations in the world? Not much people...

sorcery and witchcraft is haram however using that as an excuse for abuse is indicating something of a cover up..

these people have returned to the actions of jahilliya

if a poor person or one without status commits a crime they are severely punished
however if a rich person does it they can literally bribe through the whole system
if there is a lack of proof there should not be such a harsh sentence
the lands of islam are being ruled by the most corrupt and unjust dictators

may allah free us from their grasp

 

[Abu Talib]

:salam2:

All governments do it so why single out Saudi Arabia. Look at the Govt. of USA their soldiers murder & rape etc but still they are let off.

Look at Australia few months back the whole Indian media was lashing out at them because of the injustice to Indians who were attacked brutally and the police didn't do anything neither did the Govt. of Australia.

And the list goes on...

 

[fatma_said]

salam brother

i have not singled them out, rather if you see my other posts i love to concern myself with the issues surrounding the Muslim ummah.
From the problems in Ingushetia to palestine i love to relate articles that seek to highlight issues prevalent in the muslim world

As for the non-muslim majority countries i do critize gov. especially america and its woeful ally isreal, however this is not the issue and in relation to human rights as a whole you must admit that some of the western countries have one of the best human rights records..

Brother forgive me but i don't understand why u feel particularly offended. As the guardian of the most sacred sites in islam don't you think they should be setting a high moral and just example for the rest of the muslim ummah to follow???

why is it that we cannot criticize each other in a productive manner...

the sahaba at the time of the prophet welcomed criticisms and used it to better themselves

umar (r.a.a) was so strict against the other muslim governors that he would single them out for criticism and punishment if they weren't acting justly

i use these examples to highlight that criticism is not alien to islam and although it is not good to revolt, how can any good come to the Muslim ummah when we fear our dictators that rule our muslim lands, so much that we are afraid to speak negatively of their governments

they owe a duty to us and they have failed us so the least we can do is to strive to bring them to justice

P.S it is true there are worse governments than the saudi government take for example the eqyptian, Indian , afghan, Israeli and somalian governments etc. however it would not deter anyone from being able to criticize other governments if they wanted to.

and personally i have no hatred towards any saudis or any other muslims around the world, they are my brothers and sisters and we share a common bond like no other...

 

[dna1987]

:salam2:

All governments do it so why single out Saudi Arabia. Look at the Govt. of USA their soldiers murder & rape etc but still they are let off.

Look at Australia few months back the whole Indian media was lashing out at them because of the injustice to Indians who were attacked brutally and the police didn't do anything neither did the Govt. of Australia.

And the list goes on...

Assalam alaikum.

There is already a really good response to your post by sister fatma_said. But I think your post was in reply to my one.

No one is "singling" out Saudi Arabia. Just because you may not have read the threads about other governments, doesn't mean that injustice occurring elsewhere is not highlighted. Are you suggesting that we just ignore this? How would you react if this happened with a French or British person shoving nails into a maid?

And what do all the other governments do? Excluding the US government (if you look at the posts I've made, you'll see that I even upset a few people when I said "I hope the US fails at everything in life, because of what their government is doing") and the Israeli government. So, you pretty much compared the Saudi government to that of America's and Israel's....actually, perhaps it's not that bad a comparison.

Though there are racists in Australia, the government here had strongly condemned the attacks. They spoke out against it all the time and sent many members of parliament to go to India and smooth out relations. The police tried to do what they could. Even if the results were not good enough, which is what I believe, nobody can say that any official in the government or the police force condoned, supported or in any way defended the actions against Indian international students.

I said above that this is "yet another case", here's a recent story: a Saudi prince killed a Muslim servant of his, so loyal to the prince, that he let the prince kill him and this only occurred on the 6th of October 2010:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1018/breaking25.html

I learned of it when a friend of mine from Kashmir posted it on his facebook page with "how can a Muslim do this to another Muslim?" I didn't post that article on TTI. Perhaps I should have. He also abused the Muslim servant sexually, which makes this prince's crimes of a homosexual nature too (sinful, right?). I dislike how if the poor or the weak commit any such crime, Islamic justice is dealt out immediately, but when the rich and powerful do it, we claim that it's time to turn a blind eye. Why single out the prince? I mean, there are plenty of poor Muslims committing crimes, we should be telling them all off first.

May Allah give the oppressed people, the poor people and the weak people justice everywhere, whether they are oppressed by non-Muslims, or "Muslims". Ameen. Ameen.

Assalam alaikum.

 

[BrotherInIslam7]

walykum salam

sorcery and witchcraft is haram however using that as an excuse for abuse is indicating something of a cover up..

:salam2:

And the proof of this being true is ? There is a sister from Sri Lanka who on this very thread, has mentioned and I quote her " I am sorry to say that most of the people are accusing Saudi to malign ISLAM. "

While you have not investigated or come across substantial (or any proof) for this, you have reached a conclusion. Isn't this same as spreading misinformation, being prejudiced and thinking negatively about an Islamic govt ?

these people have returned to the actions of jahilliya

Refrain from making such statements, when 'we' ourselves (or atleast me) have more traces of jahiliyiah than the ones we accuse others of. Our salaf used to always think of their shortcomings and mistakes first, before even thinking about others.

So if we aren't following the ways of salaf, we are following the ways of .... (I hope the point is understood).

salam brother

i have not singled them out, rather if you see my other posts i love to concern myself with the issues surrounding the Muslim ummah.
From the problems in Ingushetia to palestine i love to relate articles that seek to highlight issues prevalent in the muslim world

Concern for the Ummah is excellent. We need our fellow brothers and sisters to concern themselves with needs and problems of the Ummah. This is commendable and very positive to hear from you.

However, you need to make sure that what the scholars have mentioned regarding serving Islam as well. 'Concern' alone wouldn't make us worth contributors to this Ummah. Rather, 'concern' and *proper Islamic solutions* will help us.

There are many groups or individuals who have genuine concern for muslims. But from their actions and words, they have only contributed to cause more harm and destruction for (and to) the muslims.

So before we sit down and decide how we are to benefit this Ummah, we need to first turn to our religion for guidance and see to it that our solution is as per the teachings of Islam.

Please read these beneficial threads

Importance of Tawheed in Reviving the Ummah


Why Muslims are Weak Today

As for the non-muslim majority countries i do critize gov. especially america and its woeful ally isreal, however this is not the issue and in relation to human rights as a whole you must admit that some of the western countries have one of the best human rights records..

Highly Debatable. But since I don't want to divert from the main message of my post, I will let this one go.

why is it that we cannot criticize each other in a productive manner...

Does such kind of criticism reach the people it is intended for ? No.

Is it communicated in private and with choicest words and manners as recommended by teaching of Islam ? No.

Does this foster animosity, prejudice , some form of hate, spread of hearsay/rumors against Islamic govt and it's rulers ? Yes.

The Messenger of Allaah Muhammad (salallaahu'alayheewasallam) said, "Whoever desires to advise the one with authority then he should not do so openly, rather he should take him by the hand and take him into seclusion (and then advise him). And if he accepts (the advice) from him then (he has achieved his objective) and if not, then he has fulfilled that which was a duty upon him." (Reported by Ahmad (3/403) and Ibn Abee 'Aasim (2/521) with a Saheeh isnaad.)

the sahaba at the time of the prophet welcomed criticisms and used it to better themselves

umar (r.a.a) was so strict against the other muslim governors that he would single them out for criticism and punishment if they weren't acting justly

He RadiAllahu Anhu had authority over them. They would heed to his orders, advice and suggestions. Our words on TTI, do not even reach the people whom this is all intended for. We are in a way slandering them. May Allah azz zawajal protect us from such acts. Ameen

i use these examples to highlight that criticism is not alien to islam and although it is not good to revolt, how can any good come to the Muslim ummah when we fear our dictators that rule our muslim lands, so much that we are afraid to speak negatively of their governments

they owe a duty to us and they have failed us so the least we can do is to strive to bring them to justice

We are required Islamically to make dua for our rulers. Did you know what our pious predecessors and pious scholars (May Allah be pleased and mercy on all of them) have said about this ?

Imaam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal (d.241H) – rahimahullaah – said: “Verily I supplicate for the ruler, for his correctness, success and support – night and day – and I see this as being obligatory upon me.’’

Fudayl Ibn ’Iyaad (d.187H) – rahimahullaah – said: “If I had a supplication that would be answered, I would not make it, except for the ruler. Because when the ruler becomes righteous, the towns and the servants become safe and secure.” Refer to Hilyatul-Awliyaa‘ (8/91-92)

May Allah azz zawajal help us to increase our knowledge of Deen and implent it in our lives. Ameen

Wasalaamalaykum waa rahmatullahi

 

[dna1987]

:salam2:

And the proof of this being true is ? There is a sister from Sri Lanka who on this very thread, has mentioned and I quote her " I am sorry to say that most of the people are accusing Saudi to malign ISLAM. "

While you have not investigated or come across substantial (or any proof) for this, you have reached a conclusion. Isn't this same as spreading misinformation, being prejudiced and thinking negatively about an Islamic govt ?

Assalam alaikum BrotherInIslam7,

I'll reply to this quote for now as fatma-said is not online yet. So your entire reference is based on the post of one member from Sri Lanka? Just because someone is from a country, it does not make them an expert on every issue.

Sister faraa started off her post with, quote: "Sister I am living in Sri Lanka, from where the Saudi government gets its' most of the maids.." which unfortunately is inaccurate. Saudi Arabia has many more maids from Indonesia. And there are plenty from Nepal, Philippines and India, in numbers similar to that from Sri Lanka. Her next sentence started with, "I PERSONALLY DON'T BELIEVE...".

With all due respect, I took her post to stand for what she claimed it to be: her personal opinion. Interesting, but in this case, not completely accurate. And you have based an entire response referencing one post on this thread where the sister claims it to be her opinion. I have a Sri Lankan Muslim friend (currently living with me in Malaysia) who has told me that they he does believe in cases of maid abuse.

I'll have to ask you what proof you have. As the information currently shows: there is a maid who has had 24 nails inserted into her body which were visible on x-ray. She suffered a lot of pain and humiliation from it. That is a fact and the substantial proof that you asked for. If you want, I can post a picture obtained from the x-ray. So, where is the proof that she practiced sorcery? Merely claiming that she is a witch does not constitute proof. And if you can proof that she is a sorcerer, so what, does that give the right to a random Saudi citizen to shove nails into her body, or justify the act? Is that a prescribed Islamic punishment? And can any citizen carry out Islamic punishments or must it be done by the government?

We are required Islamically to make dua for our rulers. Did you know what our pious predecessors and pious scholars (May Allah be pleased and mercy on all of them) have said about this ?

Imaam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal (d.241H) – rahimahullaah – said: “Verily I supplicate for the ruler, for his correctness, success and support – night and day – and I see this as being obligatory upon me.’’

Fudayl Ibn ’Iyaad (d.187H) – rahimahullaah – said: “If I had a supplication that would be answered, I would not make it, except for the ruler. Because when the ruler becomes righteous, the towns and the servants become safe and secure.” Refer to Hilyatul-Awliyaa‘ (8/91-92)

I too hope that there are just and good Muslim rulers, inshAllah soon. At the moment, we really do lack them. Note, this is a general prayer. And I hope that there is justice for all the poor, the weak and the oppressed people all over the world, whose rights are trodden upon and their pleas ignored by the rich and the powerful. InshAllah, soon.

On a side note, if you have time to reply to this question:
As I am not a Saudi citizen, not will I ever be able to become a Saudi citizen (it's impossible for me as a non-Saudi), are their rulers the same as my rulers? I'm not quite sure that the Saudi royal family has any control over me. So, should my prayers be directed at my prime minister becoming a just ruler, and hopefully a Muslim too?

Assalam alaikum.