saudi women at Olympics

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a_stranger

Junior Member
وعليكم السلام

Dear sister if you study verses of higab in Quran you find the world gilbab which means a long wide loose dress which covers the the body of women .........yes judo uniform is modest if compared to the uniforms of other sports but not Islamic higab. May Allah guide us all to what is best.
The problem is that some Saudi women are giving up many Islamic values just to be modern ......they are giving up their perfect higab ......sorry to say so.
 

Hard Rock Moslem

I'm your brother
Just a bit paranoid? 7 out of the last 10 summer games would have fallen in this years dates of Ramadan - doesn't seem like a conspiracy to me.
I thought this years Olympics were great and of course women should have an equal right to compete if they want to.

Correction pls, no where I mentioned it is a conspiracy. I was saying it is de-respect to Muslims who are observing fasting month. Why can't have it in the month of Sept or 4th week of Aug? Will it be winter by then? I don't know, let me clarify from you. I don't have 4 seasons here. I believe if they delay it will clashed with EPL new seasons, right? It is just my theory, not conspiracy theory. South East Asian nations do have their own version of Olympic known as "SEA Games", so far the organisers including Buddist majority Thailand, Laos, Burma, Vietnam and catholic majority Philipines, Singapore had avoided holding the Games on fasting month to let Muslims athletes to compete on fair ground. Is IOC or UK so stupid?
 

Hard Rock Moslem

I'm your brother
There is no conspiracy from the IOC or the UK, the games are held in the summer and Ramadan has fallen in the summer the fast 3 years and will again next year. Is it bad timing, yes a conspiracy, no. They are also not going to change the games due to one religion and its holy month. WHile I agree it would have been difficult to compete as a Muslim due to Ramadan, there was no conspiracy Brother.

Regarding "conspiracy", see my reply to Townie. I choose to reply to him because he was "paranoid" and jumped the gun on me. My first question was not answered, what is the benefit i.e for our women to take part and in the process to abandon their hijab? Is winning the gold, silver or bronze medal is more important than obeying Allah?

Are we not interested with trophies and gold medals promised by Allah once we are in paradise?

Enter Paradise, you and your kinds (wives), delighted. Circulated among them will be plates and vessels of gold. And therein is whatever the souls desire and [what] delights the eyes, and you will abide therein eternally. [Az-Zukhruf, 43:70-71. Sahih International Version]

They will exchange with one another a cup [of wine] wherein [results] no ill speech or commission of sin. [At-Tur, 52:23. Sahih International Version]

And there will be circulated among them vessels of silver and cups having been [created] clear [as glass], [Al-Insan, 76:15. Sahih International Version]
 

Townie

Junior Member
Correction pls, no where I mentioned it is a conspiracy. I was saying it is de-respect to Muslims who are observing fasting month. Why can't have it in the month of Sept or 4th week of Aug? Will it be winter by then? I don't know, let me clarify from you. I don't have 4 seasons here. I believe if they delay it will clashed with EPL new seasons, right? It is just my theory, not conspiracy theory. South East Asian nations do have their own version of Olympic known as "SEA Games", so far the organisers including Buddist majority Thailand, Laos, Burma, Vietnam and catholic majority Philipines, Singapore had avoided holding the Games on fasting month to let Muslims athletes to compete on fair ground. Is IOC or UK so stupid?
You did say "IOC and UK govt mock Muslims by having the games during fasting month", which sounds like a very good description of a conspiracy to me.
The Games have no connection with religion and I doubt that the date of Ramadan was ever taken into account. What is more important are all the other sporting events that Olympians will take part in. Taking the UK Football team as an example, they played in the European Championship which finished at the start of July, and they had to be back with their teams for the English Premier League which starts in two days. In other words there is no flexibility to move the Olympics.
 

Hard Rock Moslem

I'm your brother
You did say "IOC and UK govt mock Muslims by having the games during fasting month", which sounds like a very good description of a conspiracy to me.
The Games have no connection with religion and I doubt that the date of Ramadan was ever taken into account. What is more important are all the other sporting events that Olympians will take part in. Taking the UK Football team as an example, they played in the European Championship which finished at the start of July, and they had to be back with their teams for the English Premier League which starts in two days. In other words there is no flexibility to move the Olympics.

If my English is correct, "mock" means "to insult". Perhaps wrong choice of word. So, it is still summer end of Aug or Sept, right? EPL and other matters are seem to be priority than Muslims feelings. Well, I can't critisize UK or IOC either because no Islamic states show concern about it in fact they came out with fatwa allowing Muslims to break fast during the Games. Well, I don't dispute the fatwa because it beyond my authority but the purpose of the fatwa is questionable.
 

Townie

Junior Member
If my English is correct, "mock" means "to insult". Perhaps wrong choice of word. So, it is still summer end of Aug or Sept, right? EPL and other matters are seem to be priority than Muslims feelings. Well, I can't critisize UK or IOC either because no Islamic states show concern about it in fact they came out with fatwa allowing Muslims to break fast during the Games. Well, I don't dispute the fatwa because it beyond my authority but the purpose of the fatwa is questionable.
I applaud the fatwa because it allowed Muslim athletes, who have trained and prepared for these games sometimes for years, to compete equally with non-Muslims.
I think that competitive sport is a wonderful thing; not just because it gives people a chance to win, but also because it shows that it is better to compete and lose than not to compete.
I applaud the contribution of all Muslim athletes at the Olympics, both the winners and the losers.
 

Hard Rock Moslem

I'm your brother
This is not surprising from you, anything Muslims do against their Islamic teachings immediately non Muslims will pour on praises. Some even receive awards such as the satanic Rushide.
In my country, there was a fatwa saying being “tomboy” is haram for Muslim women. All of sudden the non Muslims communities were barking at our scholars. What the fatwa got to do with them? Only Muslims women are required to comply so why non Muslims getting involved? Then very recently there was fatwa allowing muslims athletes to abandon fasting for London Olympic, needless to say many praises came from non Muslims communities while Muslims was in total silent. Sometime our scholars are heroes and sometime they are bad to the non Muslims. If the fatwa pleases your desire, it is good. Otherwise it is bad.
So I remember this verse from the Qur’an:

There is no compulsion in religion (to revert into Islam). Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghut (evil) and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower. [Al-Baqarah, 2:256, Mohsin Khan’s version]
 

Townie

Junior Member
This is not surprising from you, anything Muslims do against their Islamic teachings immediately non Muslims will pour on praises. Some even receive awards such as the satanic Rushide.
In my country, there was a fatwa saying being “tomboy” is haram for Muslim women. All of sudden the non Muslims communities were barking at our scholars. What the fatwa got to do with them? Only Muslims women are required to comply so why non Muslims getting involved? Then very recently there was fatwa allowing muslims athletes to abandon fasting for London Olympic, needless to say many praises came from non Muslims communities while Muslims was in total silent. Sometime our scholars are heroes and sometime they are bad to the non Muslims. If the fatwa pleases your desire, it is good. Otherwise it is bad.
So I remember this verse from the Qur’an:

There is no compulsion in religion (to revert into Islam). Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghut (evil) and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower. [Al-Baqarah, 2:256, Mohsin Khan’s version]
You are quick to anger aren't you? I in no way suggested that Muslim women should be encouraged to compete. It was not my desire for the Muslim athletes to be allowed to break their fast - it was theirs. I was just glad that your religious leaders were enlightened enough to allow it. To be honest, if that had hadn't happened the UK would have won more medals.
I am only in favour of people being free to do what they want to do, without others either telling them not to, or pressurising them not to.
 

Shak78

Junior Member
I am in the minority then and have no issue with that. I think that girl was brave to do what she did, the objections of the Saudi Scholars were a bit over the top imo and the reason they don't want women in sports saying they could lose thier virginity via sports is ridiculous. The people who were calling her a prostitute were cowards doing it hiding behind social media. If I had a daughter I would encourage her to go into sports.
 

a_stranger

Junior Member
I am in the minority then and have no issue with that. I think that girl was brave to do what she did, the objections of the Saudi Scholars were a bit over the top imo and the reason they don't want women in sports saying they could lose thier virginity via sports is ridiculous. The people who were calling her a prostitute were cowards doing it hiding behind social media. If I had a daughter I would encourage her to go into sports.


Dear sister, I agree with you : it is totally impolite and unislamic to say such words , those who say such words are making a big sin . Still muslem woman should fear Allah subhanahu wa taala and should obey his commands first. I prefer that my daughter be a teacher or doctor .......scientist , and for sure she can enjoy sports in a non mixing area with proper dress.
With regards
 

Seeking Allah's Mercy

Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!
I am in the minority then and have no issue with that. I think that girl was brave to do what she did, the objections of the Saudi Scholars were a bit over the top imo and the reason they don't want women in sports saying they could lose thier virginity via sports is ridiculous. The people who were calling her a prostitute were cowards doing it hiding behind social media. If I had a daughter I would encourage her to go into sports.

No one here is advocating the bold bit. No one here is taking people with views like that as heroes and someone to look up to. I already said, a scholar's opinion is of no value when it is his "personal" opinion and not based on Qur'an and Hadeeth. As for the others, line them up and lash them 80 times each.

The underline bit, yeah she's brave to the extent that she's stupid to rebel against Allaah. May Allaah forgive her and us, if we've said anything wrong, and guide us all along the straight path.

Lastly, what she did was Islamically correct. We don't agree with you on this.
 

rupok98

New Member
As muslems we should return to Quran and Sunna in every matter, it is unacceptable to wear semi higab and expose female's body in front of nonmahrem. Islam put modesty as a priority in life. We should never be forced by others to do what is against our values , we have Islamic values if they don' t respect us we should respect our values.

Super opinion ........ I am agree with your views and values .... thanks .
 

sister herb

Official TTI Chef
Salam alaykum;

I wonder why just Saudi females in olympic seems to be so big issue. They aren´t first muslim sisters take part of kind of games. Have you forgot these sisters for example:

HASSIBA BOULMERKA, ALGERIA Boulmerka, 42, won her country its first Olympic gold medal, in the 1,500 metres at Barcelona in 1992. She was the second Muslim woman ever to win an Olympic gold.

RANIA EL WANI, EGYPT The swimmer el Wani, 33, has participated in three Olympics. She won medals at the 1990 African Championships, the 1991, 1995 and 1999 African Games; the 1997 Mediterranean Games and Pan-Arab Games; and the 1999 Arab Games.

ROQAYA AL GASSRA, BAHRAIN Al Gassra, 28, won a gold medal in the 200m sprint and a bronze in the 100m at the 2006 Asian Games in Doha. She has also won medals at the Asian Indoor and Arabian championships. She was the first female athlete to run in a hijab, at the 2004 Olympics, and was the flag bearer for Bahrain at the 2008 Olympics.

KIRAN KHAN, PAKISTAN Khan, 21, a record-holding swimmer, has represented her country at the 2008 Beijing Olympics and at Asian and Commonwealth Games, among other events.

SHEIKHA LATIFA BINT AHMED AL MAKTOUM, UAE Having won numerous medals at regional equestrian championships, Al Maktoum, 25, competed in the 2008 Olympics and before that won a team bronze medal at the 2006 Doha Asian Games. More recently she won an individual silver medal at the 2010 Asian Games.

SHEIKHA MAITHA BINT MOHAMMED BIN RASHID AL MAKTOUM, UAE Al Maktoum, 31, a martial arts champion, won the +60kg karate silver medal at the 2006 Doha Asian Games. She was a taekwondo competitor at the 2008 Olympics, and was the first Gulf woman to carry her nation's flag at the Olympics.

NAWAL EL MOUTAKAWEL, MOROCCO Moutakawel, 49, won the 400m hurdles race in 1984 in Los Angeles, becoming the first Muslim woman to earn a gold medal at the Olympic Games. She was also the first Muslim woman to be elected to the International Olympic Committee, in 1997. She won the Laureus Lifetime Achievement Award in 2010.

RUBAB RAZA, PAKISTAN Raza, 20, was her country's first female Olympic swimmer, competing at the age of 13 in the 50m freestyle at the 2004 Athens Games. She won two silver medals and one bronze at the 2004 Islamabad South Asian Games. She is Pakistan's youngest Olympian.

GHADA SHOUAA, SYRIA Shouaa, 38, won a gold medal at the 1996 Olympics at Atlanta in the heptathlon. The former basketball player also won medals at several Asian and World Games over the years.
 

a_stranger

Junior Member
السلام عليكم


Praise be to Allaah.
Shaykh al-Albaani (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
The conditions of hijaab:
Firstly:
(It should cover all the body apart from whatever has been exempted).
Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allaah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”
This aayah clearly states that it is obligatory to cover all of a woman’s beauty and adornments and not to display any part of that before non-mahram men (“strangers”) except for whatever appears unintentionally, in which case there will be no sin on them if they hasten to cover it up.
Al-Haafiz ibn Katheer said in his Tafseer:
This means that they should not display any part of their adornment to non-mahrams, apart from that which it is impossible to conceal. Ibn Mas’ood said: such as the cloak and robe, i.e., what the women of the Arabs used to wear, an outer garment which covered whatever the woman was wearing, except for whatever appeared from beneath the outer garment. There is no sin on a woman with regard to this because it is impossible to conceal it.
Secondly
(it should not be an adornment in and of itself).
Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“… and not to show off their adornment…” [al-Noor 24:31]. The general meaning of this phrase includes the outer garment, because if it is decorated it will attract men’s attention to her. This is supported by the aayah in Soorat al-Ahzaab (interpretation of the meaning):
“And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance” [al-Ahzaab 33:33]. It is also supported by the hadeeth in which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There are three, do not ask me about them: a man who leaves the jamaa’ah, disobeys his leader and dies disobedient; a female or male slave who runs away then dies; and a woman whose husband is absent and left her with everything she needs, and after he left she made a wanton display of herself. Do not ask about them.”
(Narrated by al-Haakim, 1/119; Ahmad, 6/19; from the hadeeth of Faddaalah bint ‘Ubayd. Its isnaad is saheeh and it is in al-Adab al-Mufrad).
Thirdly:
(It should be thick and not transparent or “see-thru”)
- because it cannot cover properly otherwise. Transparent or see-thru clothing makes a woman more tempting and beautiful. Concerning this the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “During the last days of my ummah there will be women who are clothed but naked, with something on their heads like the humps of camels. Curse them, for they are cursed.” Another hadeeth adds: “They will not enter Paradise or even smell its fragrance, although its fragrance can be detected from such and such a distance.”
(Narrated by Muslim from the report of Abu Hurayrah).
Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr said: what the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) meant was women who wear clothes made of light fabric which describes and does not cover. They are clothed in name but naked in reality.
Transmitted by al-Suyooti in Tanweer al-Hawaalik, 3/103.
Fourthly:
(It should be loose, not tight so that it describes any part of the body).
The purpose of clothing is to prevent fitnah (temptation), and this can only be achieved if clothes are wide and loose. Tight clothes, even if they conceal the colour of the skin, still describe the size and shape of the body or part of it, and create a vivid image in the minds of men. The corruption or invitation to corruption that is inherent in that is quite obvious. So the clothes must be wide. Usaamah ibn Zayd said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) gave me a thick Egyptian garment that was one of the gifts given to him by Duhyat al-Kalbi, and I gave it to my wife to wear. He said, ‘Why do I not see you wearing that Egyptian garment?’ I said, ‘I gave it to my wife to wear.’ He said, ‘Tell her to wear a gown underneath it, for I am afraid that it may describe the size of her bones.’” (Narrated by al-Diyaa’ al-Maqdisi in al-Ahaadeeth al-Mukhtaarah, 1/442, and by Ahmad and al-Bayhaqi, with a hasan isnaad).
Fifthly:
(It should not be perfumed with bakhoor or fragrance)
There are many ahaadeeth which forbid women to wear perfume when they go out of their houses. We will quote here some of those which have saheeh isnaads:
Abu Moosa al-Ash’ari said: the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Any woman who puts on perfume then passes by people so that they can smell her fragrance, is an adulteress.”
Zaynab al-Thaqafiyyah reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “If any one of you (women) goes out to the mosque, let her not touch any perfume.”
Abu Hurayrah said: the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Any woman who has scented herself with bakhoor (incense), let her not attend ‘Ishaa’ prayers with us.”
Moosa ibn Yassaar said that a woman passed by Abu Hurayrah and her scent was overpowering. He said, “O female slave of al-Jabbaar, are you going to the mosque?” She said, “Yes,” He said, “And have you put on perfume because of that?” She said, “Yes.” He said, “Go back and wash yourself, for I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: ‘If a woman comes out to the mosque and her fragrance is overpowering, Allaah will not accept any prayer from her until she goes home and washes herself.’”
These ahaadeeth are general in implication. Just as the prohibition covers perfume applied to the body, it also covers perfume applied to the clothes, especially in the third hadeeth, where bakhoor (incense) is mentioned, because incense is used specifically to perfume the clothes.
The reason for this prohibition is quite clear, which is that women’s fragrance may cause undue provocation of desires. The scholars also included other things under this heading of things to be avoided by women who want to go to the mosque, such as beautiful clothes, jewellery that can be seen, excessive adornments and mingling with men. See Fath al-Baari, 2/279.
Ibn Daqeeq al-‘Eed said:
This indicates that it is forbidden for a woman who wants to go to the mosque to wear perfume, because this causes provocation of men’s desires. This was reported by al-Manaawi in Fayd al-Qadeer, in the commentary on the first hadeeth of Abu Hurayrah quoted above.
Sixthly:
(It should not resemble the clothing of men)
It was reported in the saheeh ahaadeeth that a woman who imitates men in dress or in other ways is cursed. There follow some of the ahaadeeth that we know:
Abu Hurayrah said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) cursed the man who wears women’s clothes, and the woman who wears men’s clothes.”
‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr said: I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: ‘They are not part of us, the women who imitate men and the men who imitate women.’”
Ibn ‘Abbaas said: “The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) cursed effeminate men and masculine women. He said, ‘Throw them out of your houses.’” He said: “The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) expelled So and so, and ‘Umar expelled So and so.” According to another version: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) cursed men who imitate women and women who imitate men.”
‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘There are three who will not enter Paradise and Allaah will not even look at them on the Day of Resurrection: one who disobeys his parents, a woman who imitates men, and the duyooth (cuckold, weak man who feels no jealousy over his womenfolk).”
Ibn Abi Maleekah – whose name was ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Ubayd-Allaah – said: “It was said to ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her), ‘What if a woman wears (men’s) sandals?’ She said: ‘The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) cursed women who act like men.’”
These ahaadeeth clearly indicate that it is forbidden for women to imitate men and vice versa, This usually includes dress and other matters, apart from the first hadeeth quoted above, which refers to dress only.
Abu Dawood said, in Masaa’il al-Imaam Ahmad (p. 261): “I heard Ahmad being asked about a man who dresses his slave woman in a tunic. He said, ‘Do not clothe her in men’s garments, do not make her look like a man.” Abu Dawood said: “I said to Ahmad, Can he give her bachelor sandals to wear? He said, No, unless she wears them to do wudoo’. I said, What about for beauty? He said, No. I said, Can he cut her hair short? He said, No.”
Seventhly:
(It should not resemble the dress of kaafir women).
It is stated in sharee’ah that Muslims, men and women alike, should not resemble or imitate the kuffaar with regard to worship, festivals or clothing that is specific to them. This is an important Islamic principle which nowadays, unfortunately, is neglected by many Muslims, even those who care about religion and calling others to Islam. This is due either to ignorance of their religion, or because they are following their own whims and desires, or because of deviation, combined with modern customs and imitation of kaafir Europe. This was one of the causes of the Muslims’ decline and weakness, which enabled the foreigners to overwhelm and colonize them. “…Verily, Allaah will not change the condition of a people as long as they do not change their state themselves …” [al-Ra’d 13:11 – interpretation of the meaning]. If only they knew.
It should be known that there is a great deal of saheeh evidence for these important rules in the Qur’aan and Sunnah, and that the evidence in the Qur’aan is elaborated upon in the Sunnah, as is always the case.
Eighthly:
(It should not be a garment of fame and vanity).
Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Whoever wears a garment of fame and vanity in this world, Allaah will clothe him in a garment of humiliation on the Day of Resurrection, then He will cause Fire to flame up around him.’”
(Hijaab al-Mar’ah al-Muslimah, p. 54-67).
And Allaah knows best.
Hijaab al-Mar’ah al-Muslimah, p. 54-67
Correct Hijaab
Islam Q&A, Fatwa No. 6991
 

Hard Rock Moslem

I'm your brother
You are quick to anger aren't you? I in no way suggested that Muslim women should be encouraged to compete. It was not my desire for the Muslim athletes to be allowed to break their fast - it was theirs. I was just glad that your religious leaders were enlightened enough to allow it. To be honest, if that had hadn't happened the UK would have won more medals.
I am only in favour of people being free to do what they want to do, without others either telling them not to, or pressurising them not to.

I'm not angry, did I appeared to be? Those have to abandon their fasting in the name of sports, of course they can fast after Ramadan. But what is the surety angel of death will not visit them before end of Ramadan? To me, Islam first and the rest follow after. No one have absolute free will to do anything they wish, as Muslims they are to obey Allah and the Prophet's commands. Worst part is our women have to expose part of their body which suppose to be seen by their husband, now become public and millions are watching them for free. Same on them. As long as their photos are available anywhere with semi expose, they will doing sin.
 

Hard Rock Moslem

I'm your brother
I am in the minority then and have no issue with that. I think that girl was brave to do what she did, the objections of the Saudi Scholars were a bit over the top imo and the reason they don't want women in sports saying they could lose thier virginity via sports is ridiculous. The people who were calling her a prostitute were cowards doing it hiding behind social media. If I had a daughter I would encourage her to go into sports.

KSA is our last frontier, if you go to Dubai you will see women semi naked. The same can be seen in Kuala Lumpur, Singapore, Jakarta and everywhere. I believe every muslim will have special love to KSA (not the govt, sorry). Our two holy cities are located here too. At least, let our women from KSA lead the rest. What stopping them from practicing 100% Islam? KSA can be said 100% Islamic state, so what is the problem to practice Islam? We've to do all we can to protect our sisters dignity and chaste, even if they don't like it. They will appreciate us not today but hereafter.
 

Townie

Junior Member
I'm not angry, did I appeared to be? Those have to abandon their fasting in the name of sports, of course they can fast after Ramadan. But what is the surety angel of death will not visit them before end of Ramadan? To me, Islam first and the rest follow after. No one have absolute free will to do anything they wish, as Muslims they are to obey Allah and the Prophet's commands. Worst part is our women have to expose part of their body which suppose to be seen by their husband, now become public and millions are watching them for free. Same on them. As long as their photos are available anywhere with semi expose, they will doing sin.

That's your point of view and I respect it, but why do women have to be more modest than men? All the women who took part in the Olympics chose to wear equipment which helped them perform as well as they could in their sport. For them, and for me, that's all that matters.
You say that now "...millions are watching them for free." Would it be different if people had to pay to watch them? That's pretty weird.
I guess the difference in our viewpoints is that you think that it is the duty of women not to tempt men, whereas I think it is the duty of men to treat women with respect however they want to dress.
 
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