Stoning in Islam

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Fatima S.Ar

Happiness = Islam
Well - said brother !

If my memory serves me right, stoning was prescribed in the legislation sent to the Jews and Christians as well. Allah Almighty in His infinite wisdom has sent down a law on us and on previous nations, so that this henious crime is eliminated from the face of the earth.


Yes , it's right ! I've mentioned some verses confirm that in my last post . The problem it's oki stoning in other religions but when it comes to Islam it's a crime against humanity !
 

BrotherInIslam7

La Illaha Illa Allah
Staff member
That way they can decide for themselves if they want to be a part of a religion where stoning someone is still argued as appropriate (and that's not limited to Islam, it includes the other two monotheistic religions). And other threads like women are going to be the majority in hell, or they shouldn't be allowed to have a job.

:salam2:

I am afraid that you have an inappropriate criteria in choosing a 'religion' or way of life based on weighing the pros and cons (or humanity) of punishment legislated of each religion.

The way would rather be to verify if a religion is actually revealed by God Almighty and is preserved without it being altered. If the religious scriptures are actually from God or someone else ? If the religion is sent to a nation or all of mankind ? Does this religion lead towards worship of the Creator or a part of the creation ? ( What benefit does it give us to worship a part of the creation, which is itself subservient to God Almighty ? )

Islam ticks all those boxes as it is 'the truth'. Allah Almighty has affirmed in his last testament that there would be no more prophets after our beloved Prophet Muhammad SallAllahu Alleihi Wa Sallam. Therefore, every human has to submit to Allah Almighty, the way He wants us to submit him, which is through Islam. We are not to choose or pick according to our wish or desires, based on our comfort, nationality, social custom etc etc..

If there were two more monotheistic religions, why would Allah Almighty sent down another Prophet to save us from polytheism and paganism ? Because those religions have been corrupted and hence are no more pure monotheistic religions and are not to be followed. Prophet Isa and Prophet Musa (Peace be upon them) were sent with a religion (which was also in essence, Islam) that is now nowhere represented by Judaism or Christianity (And you can read about this elsewhere in great detail).

Allow me to take the liberty to ask you a crude rhetorical question. I hope it doesn't make you offended.

Gambling as we all know is a corrupt & immoral practice, which is known to have many evil consequences on a person's family and also on society as a whole (The homeless dwellers in Las Vegas are a modern example of ruined lives). This same 'gambling' is permitted & protected by many countries and even promoted by them through lottery etc and other legislation. However, this doesn't make everyone turn in their passport and say " I am leaving because I don't want to live in this evil land, where in this modern civilized age, it's legislature still permits and legalizes gambling ". Does it ?

So open immorality doesn't bother us much, but when God Almighty legislates something to eliminate it from our lands, we object and say "It is inhumane". Well, God Almighty is our Creator and he legislates what is in our best interest. :)
 

Kakorot

Junior Member
I'm not emotional about this. Disappointed, but not emotional. I just feel like I saw the wrong picture of Islam before now. I was told it was a peaceful religion, but how can taking someone's life for something that should have been between them and Allah (I admit, that was the woman's real mistake, not keeping it between her and Allah) ever fit into a peaceful religion? Beating someone to death with rocks isn't peaceful. And her punishment would have been taken care of after she died anyways.

Islam is a peaceful religion. Peace is mentioned and practiced everywhere. There is no other religion or way of life out there that promotes peace as Islam does.

Islam comes from the root word 'salaam', which means peace. One of Allaah's name is 'As-Salaam', which means the Peaceful One.

Before we end our prayers, we say peace. When we meet each other we say peace.


Sometimes to apply peace it may not appear to be so simple. For example back at the time of Prophet Muhammad Sal Allaahu 'Alaihi Wa Sallaam, Jihaad had to be done for there to be peace. Yes, the way they fought the enemy in the battlefield was of course voilent but the end result was peace. So sometimes voilent means need to be used to attain peace.

When a person commits adultery, they have to repent to Allaah and have the punishment in this life, so that in the afterlife they will be forgiven of this sin but if they don't do the expiation, then the penalty in the hereafter will be great and on the day of judgement, the person will regret in not admitting to their sin and wish that they had done.


A beautiful thing about Islam is that Allaah or Muhammad Sal Allaahu 'Alaihi Wa Sallaam firstly WARN us of a sin and the consequences. If we don't listen to them, then it's our fault. We had the warning but didn't listen. Also because the warnings of the punishments are so strict, it will hold a person back to think if they really want to commit that sin. For example, if a Muslim doesn't want to have their hand chopped off, then they shouldn't steal. If they don't want to get stoned, then they shouldn't commit zina etc. It's not like Allaah or Muhammad Sal Allaahu 'Alaihi Wa Sallaam wait for us to do the sin and then they tell us the punishment. And so that is why Islam is just with this.

I don't think I'm wrong for questioning. I'm allowed to use my brain. I refuse to "just accept" everything I'm told. I have to think things through. I'm not accusing the Prophet or anyone else of anything. You know, though? This is good. Having this where people who want to learn about Islam can see it. That way they can decide for themselves if they want to be a part of a religion where stoning someone is still argued as appropriate (and that's not limited to Islam, it includes the other two monotheistic religions). And other threads like women are going to be the majority in hell, or they shouldn't be allowed to have a job.

Of course you can question because if you don't then how will you know? However, we can't rely on our interllect to understand Islam on how it suits us or our opinions. We have to accept the texts of Islam, i.e. the qur'aan and the sunnah. Also as Muslims we have to submit to this because remember Islam means submission/surrender to the will of Allaah. If we submit to our own will and not to that of Allaah's, then that implies that we're not truely submitting to Allaah. As Muslims, we should 'hear and obey' I know it may seem hard, but this life is a test and Islam is not about what suits us, and we can't pick and choose what to believe, what seems just to us and what doesn't. We as Muslims have to believe that Allaah Knows best, and inshaAllaah we place our trust in Him because He created us, so He knows what is best for us and how to deal with us. We're just His creatures and lack understanding of true justice. Only Allaah Knows what true justice is and His legislation is the best. I hope that makes sense.

The reason why women are going to be the majority in hell is because they were ungrateful to their husbands. So this shows that this hadeeth applies to married women. So it's like a warning for married women to be grateful to their husbands. The hadeeth doesn't mean that we're evil and the majority of us are going to hell because we're associated with evil, the devil etc. Also, the Prophet Sal Allaahu 'Alaihi Wa Sallaam said that one of the minor signs of the end times is that women will outnumber men, 50:1. So this clearly indicates that there will be more women then men in the world, and so inevitably the majority of those in hell will be women.

Regarding working, of course we're allowed to work. Sister don't listen to people who post things when they have no evidence from the qur'aan and sunnah. Allaah and Propeht Muhammad Sal Allaahu 'Alaihi Wa Sallaam explained to us our rights, and no-one has the right to take them away from us. Don't listen to some brothers who post confusing stuff on the net.

Khadijah (may Allaah be pleased with her) was a business women and she used her wealth for Islam, especially when the Muslims were facing hardships from the quriash, her wealth came to good use. The only thing is if a women is working unnecessarily for wordly gain, when her husband is earning enough, and if she is neglecting the care of her children, the household etc. then it's best for her not to work. The money that she earns is hers and her husband can't tell her how to spend it. Even if she is earning more than him, still he must spend on her, unless she states otherwise.

I respect all of you and wish you the best, but I'm going to have to do reading on my own. Wading through cut/paste land isn't teaching me anything.

Yes sister do more research. Can I direct you to two books.. 'Important Lessons for Muslim Women' and 'The Ideal Muslimah'.

......................................................................................................
 

Valerie

Junior Member
:salam2:

Wait, being a part of a peaceful religion doesn't mean that everything would be 'lovely dovey' and there wouldn't be any repercussions for heinous crimes. Islam is also a just religion. Social outlaws and mischief makers are dealt with accordingly.

God has sent down a law onto us and we are to follow it, without ifs and buts. At the same time, Allah Almighty wouldn't legislate something that in unjust on us humans. This is the same creator who shelters us and feed us without fail and gives us uncountable blessings of all sorts, despite our shortcomings in worshiping Him. How can such a merciful Creator and Sustainer sent down a law that causes harm to mankind ? It is impossible.

By your logic, a murderer should probably keep his atrocity a secret or between him and His Lord, rather than come out and tell the truth ? How do you justify that ?

If my memory serves me right, stoning was prescribed in the legislation sent to the Jews and Christians as well. Allah Almighty in His infinite wisdom has sent down a law on us and on previous nations, so that this henious crime is eliminated from the face of the earth.

Plus, I guess we haven't been clear here or our posts are not being properly understood. Once the woman was stoned, there is a high chance of Allah subhaanaho waa taala has forgiven her of that major sin. (Adultery is a major sin in Islam ).

It is better to be stoned then to have an eternal abode in hell fire. (Major sins if not forgiven by Allah Almighty, lead one to hell fire). The women had fear that Allah azz zawajal would take her in to account for her sin, which is why she used to come often to the Prophet SallAllahu Alleihi Wa Sallam to hasten her punishment and so that she could be buried with the muslims praying over her.

To call the action taken by our noble Prophet SallAllahu Alleihi Wa Sallam as 'murder' is a serious allegation. It is illogical & I don't think any fair minded can arrive at such a conclusion. In addition, I am not sure what you seek to achieve by using that sort of language. I just hope you would be willingly to be more 'fair' & 'open minded' (as you said you are not 'emotional') when you read material on Islam.

May Allah azz zawajal guide us Ameen

Wasalaamalaykum waa rahmatullahi

I understand things weren't all lovey dovey. But a punishment should fit a crime, and if a woman is killed is that fitting the crime? How many people are killing other humans and think they're going to heaven for it?

And I didn't say "the prophet killed a woman" so please don't put words in my mouth. If he did personally kill someone, that's something he's going to have to take up with God, isn't it? I think it's hilarious that I'm not "fair" and "open minded" when all I see lately is posts against women and posts advocating killing others because of their sins. I don't think killing someone because they were stupid and made a mistake and I'm the one not being fair? I'm not open minded because I think beating someone to death with big rocks is wrong?

And it's only a "high chance" that she's forgiven? That's comforting. Personally, if she went looking to be killed, she has issues. I guess its better to be murdered than to commit suicide, right? Although it was a fine line in this case if she wanted it.

I don't believe that Christians or Jews are right either in their punishments. I gave up on Christianity and never once thought to look into Judaism. While I understand that adultery is a major sin, how someone can say a committing murder is just as bad as adultery floors me. Punishment should fit crimes. If beating someone to death with rocks is the punishment for adultery, but those who throw the stones are just being good people... I won't pretend to understand. They're not even remotely the same level of crime.

My opinion really shouldn't matter to anyone here. If you want to go around throwing rocks at people because of their sins, be my guest, just please don't come to my house.
 

Valerie

Junior Member
Gambling as we all know is a corrupt & immoral practice, which is known to have many evil consequences on a person's family and also on society as a whole (The homeless dwellers in Las Vegas are a modern example of ruined lives). This same 'gambling' is permitted & protected by many countries and even promoted by them through lottery etc and other legislation. However, this doesn't make everyone turn in their passport and say " I am leaving because I don't want to live in this evil land, where in this modern civilized age, it's legislature still permits and legalizes gambling ". Does it ?

So open immorality doesn't bother us much, but when God Almighty legislates something to eliminate it from our lands, we object and say "It is inhumane". Well, God Almighty is our Creator and he legislates what is in our best interest. :)

Interesting that you should talk about gambling. I live in Nevada. Near reno, actually. And I walked past a line of slot machines as I left the grocery store today. I've lived here nearly 8 years. Do I gamble? No. Does it bother me that others do? Whatever choice they make is their decision, although I've told some close to me that it's not a good idea, they do it. It's not my right nor my place to punish someone for doing something stupid. How can people be tested if there are such tight restrictions that they don't have to think for themselves or have a chance to face those challenges?

A while back my mother-in-law gave me $20 at the casino. She used hers to gamble, I walked to the little store nearby and bought something to drink and a book. Outlaw gambling, but that's not going to give people a free pass to heaven. They have to choose to do the right thing. And when a person is so focused on forcing others to do the right thing, even punishing them, they forget to do the right thing themselves.

Would I leave a land where people can just take the law into their own hands and punish people for wrongdoing with violence? Yes, probably.

Probably not the answer you're looking for...
 

arzafar

Junior Member
I'm not emotional about this. Disappointed, but not emotional. I just feel like I saw the wrong picture of Islam before now. I was told it was a peaceful religion, but how can taking someone's life for something that should have been between them and Allah (I admit, that was the woman's real mistake, not keeping it between her and Allah) ever fit into a peaceful religion? Beating someone to death with rocks isn't peaceful. And her punishment would have been taken care of after she died anyways.

I don't think I'm wrong for questioning. I'm allowed to use my brain. I refuse to "just accept" everything I'm told. I have to think things through. I'm not accusing the Prophet or anyone else of anything. You know, though? This is good. Having this where people who want to learn about Islam can see it. That way they can decide for themselves if they want to be a part of a religion where stoning someone is still argued as appropriate (and that's not limited to Islam, it includes the other two monotheistic religions). And other threads like women are going to be the majority in hell, or they shouldn't be allowed to have a job.

I respect all of you and wish you the best, but I'm going to have to do reading on my own. Wading through cut/paste land isn't teaching me anything.

Since you are still new to islaam you should stick to studying the fundamentals. if you are not convinced about the fundamentals then you will always be in trouble with islamic rulings. you express your disapproval over an established ruling in islaamic law and you refusal to "just accept" tells me that you lack faith. yep at the end of the day islaam is based on faith (but unlike other religions this faith is based upon reason and natural inclination). you are still in the phase where you decide what's right and wrong instead of referring matters to Allah (and His messenger) to seek guidance about what is right and wrong.

The question is whether you accept islaam as the truth or not.

Are you convinced that Allah is the one and true God?
do you believe in all His attributes?
Do you know where Allah is? (odd question i know but it makes all the difference).
Do you believe that Muhammad ibn Abdullah was a man and a messenger of Allah?
Have you read the translation of quraan at least once?
Do you believe with certainty that whatever the quraan (actual one in arabic) says is from Allah and is absolutely true?
Have you read about the life of Muhammad (pbuh)?
Do you know your purpose of life?
Finally are you willing to submit your will to Allah (swt) and His commands completely - are you actually ready to become a Muslim?

If the answer to any of the above questions is a 'no' then you might want to review the aspects of Islam referred to in those questions. after reviewing, if your answer is still a no then you'd be better off enjoying the life in this world to the fullest because it aint gonna last very long. you can always do some yoga for spirituality if needed.

if after reviewing fundamentals of Islaam, you arrive at a point that all the answers turn out to be yes then i can guarantee you will be one of those arguing in favor of for stoning.

I pray that Allah (swt) guides you and all of us to the truth.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

Words and words and more words.

Adultery is not a good thing. Why because it breaks the backbone of society. It is a cancer that always gets detected and it is ugly. So why all the fuss in Islam. Islam is the family.
My word in Islam is worth more than gold. This is the heavy stuff. If you say you are a Muslim it is 100% or nothing. That is a beauty of Islam.
When we read of the sahaba they would not even take a stone from another person without permission. How can you take the wife of another man. How do you take the virginity of a woman and not marry her beforehand.
How do you come to prayer in congregation after you have sinned with another mans wife. Heavy duty stuff people. If a man wants variety, marry more than one.

Stoning was an example for us. Don't do it. We get equal punishment for sin. I don't know about you folks..but I would rather get my punishment here..because the angels of Allah will gladly dole out punishment in the hereafter.

Is stoning more of a cruel and unusual punishment than lethal injection. I do not know. I have not experienced either.

But that is not the issue.

I read Abu-Bakr walked away from a couple who had committed adultery. He did not have the required witnesses. We have to be absolutely sure the act occurred or else we can not bear false witness.

I do not look into the bedrooms of others.
 

revert2007

Love Fishing
Assalamualikum.
I do not know how I miss some posts here but I just have a humble request.PLease never ever be harsh with someone who is new in Islam.

Sister Valerie has some problems in accepting certain things and as a new Muslim she has the right to accept or not as she was only asked three things before she convert.As long as she accepts Allah as the only God,Muhammad pbuh as the final messenger,accept to pay zakah and she believes in 6 pillar of faith,then she is a Muslim.

PLease do not be harsh with someone that you do not know their difficulties.Islam suppose to be spread through kindness.

Some of your comments and posts can easily put off others.There is no need for harshness in your comments.

If you cannot advice with kindness,please remain silent as that silence will help a lot.

PLease treat sister Valerie with respect as she deserves it.

Allah knows the best.
Assalamualikum
 

Al-Kashmiri

Well-Known Member
Staff member
As-salaamu `alaykum

We often ask why such a punishment? Naturally, the deed must be that severe. However, we don't value such a sin, we are used to seeing and hearing it everywhere, it's been treated as normal, it being encouraged in the media... It's not problematic here in the West; and with us being a product of our respective societies and environments, we too take it somewhat lightly...

However, go elsewhere in the world where such a sin is given it's due attention and yeah, death is seen as the only atonement for the adulterer and the only form of justice. But the question raised is why the punishment is so severe? Does betrayal, indecency and selfishness of this level really deserve death?

According to our scriptures, yes. There is no legitimate dispute on this issue. The severity of the punishment can be understood depending on how you approach and look at the issue...

Other than the aforementioned ills recalled earlier (betrayal etc.), what does adultery and fornication commonly result in? Children born out of wedlock, broken families and the likes. Research has proven that the majority of young offenders, who steal, rape and kill, tend to come from such backgrounds. I grew up in areas where I witnessed this myself; those who committed the worst crimes came straight from unstable families. Such children's mothers had countless boyfriends and their fathers had children with many women...

Likewise, if you read in to the lives of many of these psychopathic murderers and rapists, they too (unsurprisingly) had troubled childhoods, where adultery and other sexual crimes being performed on them or other family members was the norm.

Now put the two scenarios on the scales. Which is better? That the adulterer is severely punished, with death, or that they are left to remain, and their subsequent troubled offspring who are often deprived of role-model fathers, run around committing murders in the worst case? I'm not saying that adultery directly results in this, but research and evidence has shown this to be a typical outcome, so in being realistic about the issue I've mentioned it.

With respect to Islam being a peaceful religion, then yes, truly it is, and just because the adulterer is stoned to death, that doesn't take away the peace from Islaam, because realistically speaking, only a few people have ever faced such a punishment (contrary to what the West wants you to believe). The problem is that many of us think that these punishments are frequent, because we know that the rate of adultery in our own societies are very high. We somehow conclude that adultery in countries like Saudi is as bad as it is in the West, and thus many people are being stoned/killed. However that's not the case, alhamdulillaah the Muslim nations are far superior in their decency in this regard.

With respect to the maintenaince of peace in society, does stoning an adulterer cause any harm? Simply put, no. A citizen is killed, but it is carried out by the ruler, so no turmoil there. In fact it encourages peace. Why? Because the practice of stoning scares away the thought adultery, the practice of lashing scares the thought of fornicating. The result is peace; a society free of the immoral cancers and social problems, and increased murder rates that adultery and fornication often brings.

From a social perspective, it is far more rational to punish the adulterer severely than to let thugs on the loose. Excuse adultery and your inviting a higher death rate, which opposes the concept of peace. Do something about it, even if it means killing the adulterer so that society takes heed, and you're establishing peace...

Was-salaam
 

BrotherInIslam7

La Illaha Illa Allah
Staff member
I understand things weren't all lovey dovey. But a punishment should fit a crime, and if a woman is killed is that fitting the crime? How many people are killing other humans and think they're going to heaven for it?

And I didn't say "the prophet killed a woman" so please don't put words in my mouth. If he did personally kill someone, that's something he's going to have to take up with God, isn't it? I think it's hilarious that I'm not "fair" and "open minded" when all I see lately is posts against women and posts advocating killing others because of their sins. I don't think killing someone because they were stupid and made a mistake and I'm the one not being fair? I'm not open minded because I think beating someone to death with big rocks is wrong?

And it's only a "high chance" that she's forgiven? That's comforting. Personally, if she went looking to be killed, she has issues. I guess its better to be murdered than to commit suicide, right? Although it was a fine line in this case if she wanted it.

I don't believe that Christians or Jews are right either in their punishments. I gave up on Christianity and never once thought to look into Judaism. While I understand that adultery is a major sin, how someone can say a committing murder is just as bad as adultery floors me. Punishment should fit crimes. If beating someone to death with rocks is the punishment for adultery, but those who throw the stones are just being good people... I won't pretend to understand. They're not even remotely the same level of crime.

My opinion really shouldn't matter to anyone here. If you want to go around throwing rocks at people because of their sins, be my guest, just please don't come to my house.

:salam2:

1) I read the latter half of your reply, where you mentioned that you didn't have anything against the Prophet (Peace be upon him), so I take my words back. My apologies if by asking you to analyze things in a 'fair minded' fashion made it to look like I was implying that you are being unfair on purpose. It wasn't my intention.

2) The post of 'majority of dwellers of hell will be women' was not presented in a clear fashion. That is the reason why you don't see it on the boards any more. In no way does it imply that women are evil beings, condemned to hell fire for no particular reason. The post should have rather highlighted the evil traits that leads most men and women to hell fire. Anyhow, we live to learn. Hopefully we write better articles in the future InshaAllah.

In any case, a righteous women won't be condemned to hell fire, for being a women. The dwellers of hell fire will be male and female from both human and Jinn. Either the male or female (2 possibilities) would have to be in majority. The Prophet SallAllahu Alleihi Wa Sallam informed us that it would be the women (or female).

3) I said there is a high chance because I am not the one who decides. Allah does. I am not in a position to make a statement that Allah Almighty has forgiven such and such. However, I am hopeful in Allah's infinite mercy so I used 'high chance'. The same way I am not to give anyone the glad tidings of heavens, when Allah knows about his affairs yet I don't.

4) Adultery might not be high on your list of heinous crimes. But it's social outcomes are as serious as ones for murder. Both are taking away rights of people and their families and destroying lives of innocent humans.

I would like to see you justify how it is any different.

(Edit :- Bro Al Kashmiri has got this part covered)

5) Sister Valerie, you say you are not being emotional and being fair. Yet you talk about stoning people for their sins. Where did anyone here imply that we stone people for *all* and *any* kind of sins ?
 

kayleigh

Junior Member
I have to agree with sister Valerie, brothers and sisters. It doesn't seem right to stone a woman who, by the way, was FORCED to confess to a sin she didn't commit subhanAllah... Why not go after the rapists, criminals, serial killers, child molesters, gang members, etc. But to go after one poor woman... I don't see how it would benefit Iran, Islam or the world by killing this poor woman subhanAllah. Especially if she's innocent! Think about it!!
I mean, if killing a woman for committing adultry (I'm not saying she did that) but really what message are you sending to the rest of the world?! :girl3: If stoning is permitted then I have a real problem with Islam... :(

I think everyone in this thread thinks that the case in Iran right now is wrong. Valerie was referring to some of the hadiths posted, not the woman in Iran.

Don't blame Valerie for not knowing this, or Sakeena.

There is a whole lot to learn about Islam - so much, in fact, that you couldn't possibly know everything before you die. With all the different opinions, the sugar coating, and even the pressure from other Muslims for people to convert is it really a shock that new converts don't know a lot of this stuff? I can't tell you how many Muslims I've seen online or in person telling people something like, "You know the basics - just convert now if you believe and worry about the rest, later." So they do... then they get a big shock later.

It can be difficult for someone to believe in a certain version of God, or a specific religion as being the truth when it teaches something that that person is totally morally opposed to.
 

Al-Kashmiri

Well-Known Member
Staff member
As-salaamu `alaykum

One of the reasons why we don't get anywhere, is because we waste time with issues that are of exaggerated importance. We are Muslims and have a lot of learning and implementing to do. Why do we always whine about issues that are for the scholars and jurists and not really our own ignorant selves. The media makes a big deal out of this issue, whether Iran are right or wrong Islamicly is one thing, but we all know that Western media has an evil agenda. They show how 'evil' Muslims are for stoning a criminal (of course, if that is true), but won't ever report the millions of 'stones' their very own criminals dropped on innocent children.

What a horrific people they are...

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