Sunni marrying Shia (mature responses only, plz)

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tic_tac_toe

Junior Member
Assalaam alaikum,

Brother,

For the sake of knowledge pin point for us without knowledge the exact differences in creed. I understand the historical issues. I understand the fabrication of some of the hadiths. I realize there is some confusion regarding the 12 imams. Where did it all go wrong?

Ali is the Companion of the Prophet, The cousin of the Prophet, the son in law of the Prophet, and one of the Four Defenders of the Faith. Yet, I see that Sunni Muslims neglect his worth. I wonder why?

Forgive me if this should be the subject of another thread.

:salam2:

Please provide quotations from reliable and authentic Sunni books where the worth of Sayyidina Ali (RA) is neglected? Since you have chosen to make a claim you must have done your research and not taken it on face value and simply accepted someone's writing.

:wasalam:
 

unbreak

Junior Member
ONE MORE THING. SISTER, your MALE COUSIN make him READ THIS TOPIC, mail it to him and girl his going to marry. then only they understand.

Asalam alaykom. My male cousin is pursuing marriage with a girl who is Shia. she seems to be a modest hijabi girl who prays and has done hajj before. Is it permissible for him to marry her?

please don't allow yourself to post anything hateful. Keep this thread sophisticated and mature. Thank you.
 

slaveofAllah88

Slave of Allah (swt)
Assalaam alaikum,

Brother,

For the sake of knowledge pin point for us without knowledge the exact differences in creed. I understand the historical issues. I understand the fabrication of some of the hadiths. I realize there is some confusion regarding the 12 imams. Where did it all go wrong?

Ali is the Companion of the Prophet, The cousin of the Prophet, the son in law of the Prophet, and one of the Four Defenders of the Faith. Yet, I see that Sunni Muslims neglect his worth. I wonder why?

Forgive me if this should be the subject of another thread.

aslam o aliakum wa rahmatuALlahi wa barakatuhu,

Aapa i apologize but the sect of shia is very dangerous and its hidden from the eyes of the people merely cause people don't know about it, and don't bother thinking about it, but all the 4 schools of thought and also the answer posted by sister Shahnazz, it should be clear what our stand on the matter is.

let me just give a quick 1st of all the most important thing their aqeedah is completely different, It is part of their deen to curse the best of the people (aka companions) and the wives of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), they curse and lie on their behalf, and infront of other muslims they follow a part of their faith called taqiyya which is basically deception and they make it one of the major part of their deen.

al-Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq (AS) [The Sixth Imam of Ahlul-Bayt] said:

"al-Taqiyya is my religion, and the religion of my ancestors." He (AS)
also said: "He who doesn't practice al-Taqiyya, doesn't practice his
religion."
(taken from a shia website)

SO you can see how most of the muslims dont even know what their real believes cause they are always using taqiyya to hide their real intentions and what they really believe about other muslims and how much hatred they have for them.

They have changed everything about islam, and they can't be part of ahlul kitab cause ahlul kitab are following kitab sent by ALlah (swt) and the reason for allowing marriage to ahlul kitab is to bring them closer to islam, these people are lying and changing things in islam, themselves, they have changed the kalama, their salah practices are different, they change the time they open and close their fast, they don't even agree with the quran they believe that the sahaba changed the quran and the real quran is with their 12th imam, in their books it says horrible things like Jibrael (as) Nauzobillah made a mistake and real prophet hood should have been given to ALi (ra).

Their whole deen its based on hatred of sahaba, and the wives of Prophet (PBUH) and thats how they deceive, cause quran doesn't agree with them so they say the real quran is with the 12th imam, they pick and select the hadith according to what agrees with them, they deceive people on the outside as loving ahlul bayt.

The people who have dealth with them know them better hence the imam had such strong statements, and it doesn't suit other people to come up with statements don't even know them well.

"Do not speak to them or narrate from them, for surely they are liars."

Imam Malik (RA)

"Whoever doubts whether they are disbelievers has himself committed disbelief."

Imam Abu Haneefah (RA)

"Narrate knowledge from everyone you meet except for the Raafidi* Shia, because they invent ahaadeeth and adopt them as part of their religion."*!

Imaam Ash Shafa'ee (RA)
 

tic_tac_toe

Junior Member
Request to everyone: Please quote reliable and authentic Sunni books which disparage Sayyidina Ali (RA) or where his worth is neglected and ensure that your references are valid and can be double checked.

Please don't post randomly googl'ed articles in your defense which you have neither researched nor verified or books or Scholars which you have no idea about.

Thanks
 

Idris16

Junior Member
Asalam alaykom. My male cousin is pursuing marriage with a girl who is Shia. she seems to be a modest hijabi girl who prays and has done hajj before. Is it permissible for him to marry her?

please don't allow yourself to post anything hateful. Keep this thread sophisticated and mature. Thank you.
Wa alaykum salam, ask the shia girl what she believes in. Does she believe in Ithna ash'ariyyah (twelvers shiism aka rafidism)? Ask her about the name "Aisha" and what the difference is between shiism and sunni. This should be the first step inshaAllah.
 

slaveofAllah88

Slave of Allah (swt)
Assalaam alaikum,

Brother,

It is good, and I mean good, to see you posting again.

If you could be so kind as to suggest books it would be greatly appreciated.

walaikum salam there is alot of post just on TTI, you can easily search, but i would say you should start with this blog by a sister, who has dedicated a section to this sect knowing how dangerous it is.

http://ummuabdulazeez.com/shiasm-xposed/what-is-shiism/

some books i found

http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Fundamental_Shiite_Beliefs.pdf

book by ibn al Jawzi

http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Devils Deception by Ibn al-Jawzi.pdf

Unfortunately most of the work is in arabic and urdu, and most of the western muslims are unaware of this sect huge corruption in our society, and its sad to see how much killing they are doing in SYRIA, and people don't even understand how much shia hate us and as soon as they become the majority they show their hatred, muslims cant even go to masajid in iran, people are openly hanged for following the quran and sunnah, wherever they become the majority they start killing muslims

[video=youtube;rD8MoSFO44k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD8MoSFO44k[/video]

from the shia book themselves

The Shi'ites say this regarding Sunni Muslims "Although Allah, the Exalted, has not created a creature worse than a dog, yet a Nasbi (ie. A Sunni) is worse than even a dog." (Haqqul Yakeen (Persian) Vol 2, P. 516)
 

slaveofAllah88

Slave of Allah (swt)
Wa alaykum salam, ask the shia girl what she believes in. Does she believe in Ithna ash'ariyyah (twelvers shiism aka rafidism)? Ask her about the name "Aisha" and what the difference is between shiism and sunni. This should be the first step inshaAllah.

aslam o aliakum brother but u know they will never say taqiyya is hardcore, i grew up always believing shias are just a small branch its nothing they just believe in ALi (ra) but they lie so much they even will say we believe in sahih bukhari and we have nothing against the sahaba and SubhanAllah they disbelieve in the quran, ALlah (swt) talks about Abu bakr (ra) and AIsha (ra) in the quran and those are the people that they say the most vulgar things against ....
 

Ayyub

Junior Member
Assalaam alaikum,

Brother,

For the sake of knowledge pin point for us without knowledge the exact differences in creed. I understand the historical issues. I understand the fabrication of some of the hadiths. I realize there is some confusion regarding the 12 imams. Where did it all go wrong?

Ali is the Companion of the Prophet, The cousin of the Prophet, the son in law of the Prophet, and one of the Four Defenders of the Faith. Yet, I see that Sunni Muslims neglect his worth. I wonder why?

Forgive me if this should be the subject of another thread.

Are you serious? Who in his right mind doesn't give Ali radhiallahu anhu the respect and honor he radhiallahu anhu deserves?

Brother salaf_us_salah once posted a youtube channel that deals with the creed of the shia. So why not look there what the shia's believe in according to their scholars.

Besides that how can someone follow a group whose founder is a jew not even a muslim? The founder of the shia is Abdullah Sa'aba a jew at the time of the Sahabah.
 

slaveofAllah88

Slave of Allah (swt)
aslam o aliakum wr wb

actually this is a really good lecture i forgot to post it, a good starting point as well, as Bro. Abu Mussab Wajdi Akkari, starts with their different sects and explains very well

[video=youtube;w4GzCQt6pRg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4GzCQt6pRg[/video]
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam alaikum,

If I were not serious would I have taken the time to post this?

I am dead serious.

How many threads on TTI are filled with the wisdom of Ali's (ru) words? What hadidths are attributed to him. We have next to nothing on the words of the daughter of the Prophet, swas. Furthermore, my interest is not attacking the scholars of the Shia but looking at the great scholars of Islam at at time when scholarship was not cheap. Keep in mind anyone can have a YouTube channel for a little while. ( Please don't get me started on YouTube, please ).

We take the little knowledge we have with us to the hereafter, that is how serious I am. I can not take knowledge from sources filled with hate. That would be a disservice to my soul.
 

Ayyub

Junior Member
Assalaam alaikum,

If I were not serious would I have taken the time to post this?

I am dead serious.

How many threads on TTI are filled with the wisdom of Ali's (ru) words? What hadidths are attributed to him. We have next to nothing on the words of the daughter of the Prophet, swas. Furthermore, my interest is not attacking the scholars of the Shia but looking at the great scholars of Islam at at time when scholarship was not cheap. Keep in mind anyone can have a YouTube channel for a little while. ( Please don't get me started on YouTube, please ).

We take the little knowledge we have with us to the hereafter, that is how serious I am. I can not take knowledge from sources filled with hate. That would be a disservice to my soul.

Name one sunni scholar who doesn't give Ali radhiallahu anhu the credit he deserves? I mean what is the founding of your claim that sunnis are negelting Ali radhiallahu anhu.

Is it cause Sunnis rank Ali as the 4th best of the Sahabah. Being that 1: Abu Bakr then 2: Omar ibn Khattab then 3:Uthman Ibn Affan and 4: Ali ibn Abi Talib?
 

Idris16

Junior Member
Is it cause Sunnis rank Ali as the 4th best of the Sahabah. Being that 1: Abu Bakr then 2: Omar ibn Khattab then 3:Uthman Ibn Affan and 4: Ali ibn Abi Talib?
If it helps, then it is not deviation according to Ahl as-Sunnah to say that Ali is more virtuous than Uthman. But we agree that Abu Bakr is first and then Umar.
 

tic_tac_toe

Junior Member
aslam o aliakum brother but u know they will never say taqiyya is hardcore, i grew up always believing shias are just a small branch its nothing they just believe in ALi (ra) but they lie so much they even will say we believe in sahih bukhari and we have nothing against the sahaba and SubhanAllah they disbelieve in the quran, ALlah (swt) talks about Abu bakr (ra) and AIsha (ra) in the quran and those are the people that they say the most vulgar things against ....

Shias don't believe in Saheeh Bukhari and don't have any equivalent Authentic Hadeeth works, the closest is Kitabal-Kafi and there is near Ijmah (consensus) of the Shia Scholars that its not 100% Authentic except for the Modern day Shia Scholar Abu al-Qasim al-Khoei who considers Kitabal-Kafi to be 100% authentic and equal to Sunni version of Saheeh Bukhari.

The Shia gradation of Hadeeth depends on its textual contradiction or agreement with the Qur'aan and the issue of chains (Jarh' wat-Tadeel as per Sunnees) is pretty much non-existent amongst the Shias. The contradiction or agreement with the Qur'aan is largely based on the Shia book Nahj al-Balagha which is "supposedly" a collection of the sermons of Sayyidina Ali (RA)

Thus the Shia differ with Sunnees in both Qur'aan (completely different interpretation of the verses which both Shias and Sunnees agree to exist in the Qur'aan + added verses by Shias which Sunnees dispute) and Hadeeth (different books, different chains, different text )

Aqeedah (creed) is based on Qur'aan & Hadeeth as the sources and since the sources differ so does the Aqeedah (creed) and this is the primary difference and then secondarily there are Fiqh differences which manifest itself as Nikah mut‘ah and things like chest beating/self-flagellation but we say that even if a Shia doesn't involve himself/herself in secondary issues the primary issue is Aqeedah (creed) and if they claim to have no differences in Aqeedah (creed) then why do they call themselves a Shia? Whats the point?
 

slaveofAllah88

Slave of Allah (swt)
Assalaam alaikum,

If I were not serious would I have taken the time to post this?

I am dead serious.

How many threads on TTI are filled with the wisdom of Ali's (ru) words? What hadidths are attributed to him. We have next to nothing on the words of the daughter of the Prophet, swas. Furthermore, my interest is not attacking the scholars of the Shia but looking at the great scholars of Islam at at time when scholarship was not cheap. Keep in mind anyone can have a YouTube channel for a little while. ( Please don't get me started on YouTube, please ).

We take the little knowledge we have with us to the hereafter, that is how serious I am. I can not take knowledge from sources filled with hate. That would be a disservice to my soul.

walaikum salam

aapa thats not the case like SubhanALlah it shocks me how ajeeb (weird) some of the statement people post, ALi (ra) is loved by people adhering to the sunnah.
 

Gupta

Member
First of all, I would like to thank all of my brothers and sisters for being polite and serious about this matter.

Can we at least agree that all of the anti-Shia slandering we see on YouTube, other forums, etc. are mostly done by racist Wahhabis? Most of it is mainly propaganda. anyone who grew up in the United States will agree that 50 years ago a similar campaign was be done against blacks. discrimination can lead to a large spectrum of different false beliefs about a group of people we haven't interacted with. It's wrong.

someone here accused them of "hiding their true selves". Seriously? Enemies who took shahada during battles with Muslims were granted mercy because Muslims were taught that if they do not know what the hearts of their enemies conceals
, then they take them at face value and give them the benefit of doubt.
 

Gupta

Member
Regarding the 12 imams, it is written in saheeh bukhari that there will be 12 imams from quraish. Why do we abandon that hadeeth?
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam alaikum,

Brother Slave of Allah,

You have made my point. In Truth we can not fear what others have written. Truth stands alone. In fear of poor research methods ( laziness ) on our parts we rely on the quick answer. The poet Rumi told us to when we are thirsty to seek the source of thirst and not be satiated with a glass of water..( sorry for the paraphrasing).

We need to delve into the issues. We need solid answers. That is what I am seeking.

Brother Tic Tac Toe..InshaAllah each link you have highlighted I will seek out. Once again the process of removing the chaff from the worthy.

Please bear in mind this is not to cause any fitna. This is to remove the veils of confusion.

The beauty of the Prophet, swas, was the gift that Allah subhana wa taala gave to his messengers. They could break things down to the understanding of a five year old.

As for the issue of racism. In the UK a teacher told her six year students brown children will grow up to be slaves...It will never die.

I thank the brothers for being serious and helping me gain clarity. That is another thing about the Quran. How often the word clear is used.
 

tic_tac_toe

Junior Member
First set of Objections:
First of all, I would like to thank all of my brothers and sisters for being polite and serious about this matter.

Can we at least agree that all of the anti-Shia slandering we see on YouTube, other forums, etc. are mostly done by racist Wahhabis? Most of it is mainly propaganda. anyone who grew up in the United States will agree that 50 years ago a similar campaign was be done against blacks. discrimination can lead to a large spectrum of different false beliefs about a group of people we haven't interacted with. It's wrong.

someone here accused them of "hiding their true selves". Seriously? Enemies who took shahada during battles with Muslims were granted mercy because Muslims were taught that if they do not know what the hearts of their enemies conceals
, then they take them at face value and give them the benefit of doubt.

Responses to First set of Objections:


:salam2:



Wahabees & Racist Shia Propaganda?

Habib Ali Zain al-`Abideen al-Jifri is one of the leading Sufees of the world today and here is his refutation of the Shia on public TV:

[video=youtube;J4RrWxVuies]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4RrWxVuies[/video]

50 years ago there was no Shia refutation?

Here are the opinions of all Madhabs of Ahlus-Sunnah from over 1200 years ago!

Imam Abu Hanifa [RA]:According to Imam Abu Hanifa [r.h] and Imam Muhammed [r.h], Rawafid [Isna Ashris] are kafir for rejecting the Khilafat of the Shaikhain [r.a], which is qate'e [like an ayat of the Quran]. Its written in Muheet that Imam Muhammed [r.a] said, "its not allowed to pray behind the Rawafid because they deny the Khilafat of Hazrat Abu Bakar [r.a]". [Rad-e-Rawafid, page 39. Mujaddid Alf-e-Sani] [Haytami's Sawa'iq al-Muhriqa and al-Maqrizi's Imta` al-Asma`.]


Imaam Maalik Ibn Anas [RA]: It is related by al-Khallaal [d.3 1 1H], from Abe Bakr al-Marrodhe who said: I heard Aba 'Abdullaah saying: Malik said, "The one who reviles the Companions of the Prophet [sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam] does not have any share in Islaam.” [Refer to as-Sunnah (2/557) of Abo Bakr al-Khallaal]

And when Ibn Katheer [d.774H] mentioned the statement of Allaah the Glorified and Exalted,

"Muhammad is the Messenger of Allaah and those with him are forceful against the disbelievers, merciful amongst themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating, seeking bounty from Allaah and His pleasure. Their mark is upon their faces from the trace of prostration. That is their description in the Torah. And their description in the Bible is as a plant which produces its offshoots and strengthens them so they grow firm and stand upon their stalks, delighting the sowers - so that they may enrage by them the disbelievers." [Suratul-Fath 48:29]

He stated, "So due to this aayah, Imaam Maalik – rahimullaah- inclined, in one narration from him, towards takfir of the Rawaafid who hate the Companions [radiyallaahu ‘anhum]. He said: Because they enraged them and whosoever enrages the Companions (radiyallaahu ‘anhum), then he is a disbeliever due to this ayah. And a group from amongst the Scholars [radiyallaahu ‘anhum]agreed with him upon that."
[Refer to the Tafsir (4/219) of Ibn Katheer.]

And al-Qurtube (d.671H) commented, "Indeed, Maalik did well in his statement and he reached the correct explanation. So whoever belittles a single one of them or reviles him in his narration, then he has rejected Allaah, the Lord of the worlds and he has nullified the Sharee'ah of the Muslims.”
[Refer to the Tafsir (16/297) of al-Qurtubee.]

And Abo Nu'aym relates from a man, from Waleed az-Zubayr who said, `We were with Maalik, so they mentioned a man who used to find fault with the Companions of the Messenger of Allaah [Sallahhaahu- ‘alaihi-Wa-salam], so Maalik recited this aayah,

"Muhammad is the Messenger of Allaah, and those who are with him are very harsh," until he recited,
"So they may enrage through them [the Companions] the disbelievers."
[Soratul-Fath 48:29]

So Maalik said, `Whoever possesses anger in his heart towards the Companions of the Messenger of Allaah [Sallahhaahu- ‘alaihi-Wa-salam], then indeed this ayah applies to him. Al-Hilyah [6/327]. [That is, anyone who is enraged by the mention of the Sahaabah is a dsibeliever, because the verse says, "…the disbelievers may become enraged with them [Sahaabah]."]
Imam Shafi [RA]: Al-Harawe relates from Yoosuf Ibn Yahya al-Buwayte who said, 'I asked al-Shaafi'e, 'Can I pray behind a Raafide?' He said, 'Do not pray behind the Raafide, nor the Qadari, nor the Murjiyee'. I said, Describe them to me.' He said, `The one who says that emaan is statement (only), then he is Murjiyee`. And whosoever says that Aboo Bakr and 'Umar are not the two Imaams, then he is a Raafide. And whosoever places the Will for himself, then he is Qadaree." Dhammul-Kalaam [qaaf/215] and it was mentioned by al-Dhahabee in as-Siyar [10/31].


Imam Ahmed [RA]: Many narrations have been related from him concerning takfer of the Raafidah. It is related by al-Khallaal [d.311H], from Abu Bakr al-Marrodhe who said: I asked Aba 'Abdullaah about the one who reviles Abaa Bakr, 'Umar and 'Aa'ishah. He said, "I do not consider him a Muslim."

And al-Khallaal said: 'Abdul-Malik Ibn 'Abdul-Hameed informed me saying: I heard Aba 'Abdullaah say: "Whosoever reviles the [Companions radiyallaahu ‘anhum], then I fear disbelief for him like the Rawaafid." Then he said, "Whosoever reviles the (Companions of the Prophet [sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallarn], then we do not believe he is safe from having rejected the Religion.” [Refer to as-Sunnah (2/557-558) of al-Khalial]

And he said: 'Abdullah Ibn Ahmad Ibn Hanbal informed me saying: I asked my father about a man who reviled a man from amongst the Companions of the Prophet [salallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam]. So he said, "I do not hold him to be upon Islaam.” [Refer to as-Sunnah [2/558] of al-Khallaal.]

And Imam Ahmad also said, "They are those who free themselves from the [Companions of Muhammad [sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam] and they curse them and belittle them. They declare the Imaams disbelievers, except four: 'Ali, 'Ammaar, al-Miqdaad and Salmaan. And the Raafidah do not have anything to do with Islaam.” [Refer to Usoolus-Sunnah [p. 82] of Ahmad Ibn Hanbal.]
:jazaak:
:wasalam:

Second set of Objections:
Regarding the 12 imams, it is written in saheeh bukhari that there will be 12 imams from quraish. Why do we abandon that hadeeth?

Responses to second set of Objections:

Please produce one Hadeeth with the word 12 Imams?

There is no such Hadeeth at all which talks about 12 Imams rather, the Hadeeth talks about 12 Rulers from Quraysh, I can write about this all day but Sister Um Abdullah has mentioned every possible wording of this Hadeeth and analysed it for you, please click here to read

Then the issue is fully dissected and discussed here

I am running late but if can't produce just ask and I will post the Hadeeth in Arabic & English (translation) from Shaheeh Bukhari to show you that there is no word of Imam in there at all!

Third set of Objections:
Assalaam alaikum,

If I were not serious would I have taken the time to post this?

I am dead serious.

How many threads on TTI are filled with the wisdom of Ali's (ru) words? What hadidths are attributed to him. We have next to nothing on the words of the daughter of the Prophet, swas. Furthermore, my interest is not attacking the scholars of the Shia but looking at the great scholars of Islam at at time when scholarship was not cheap. Keep in mind anyone can have a YouTube channel for a little while. ( Please don't get me started on YouTube, please ).

We take the little knowledge we have with us to the hereafter, that is how serious I am. I can not take knowledge from sources filled with hate. That would be a disservice to my soul.

Responses to third set of Objections:

This is what you were asked:

:salam2:

Please provide quotations from reliable and authentic Sunni books where the worth of Sayyidina Ali (RA) is neglected? Since you have chosen to make a claim you must have done your research and not taken it on face value and simply accepted someone's writing.

:wasalam:

You made an accusation and still have to provide a single quotation from any Sunni book!

Here is a Fatwa by a famous Sufi Scholar rejecting the ascriptions of Shia towards Sayyidina Ali (RA) and he is well known for his Wahabi hatred
 

slaveofAllah88

Slave of Allah (swt)
Regarding the 12 imams, it is written in saheeh bukhari that there will be 12 imams from quraish. Why do we abandon that hadeeth?

aslam o alaikum wr wb

Sister gupta, this is wat i mean, by lying and deceiving, and this is such a good example, do you really want your sister in law to be someone who keeps on putting doubts in your family, destroying it at its core, the decision is yours we can only inform you , your Question basically answers it if you think about it, the mere evidence its found in sahih muslim means its not abandon by ahle sunnah wa jammah but preserved; the words of our beloved Prophet (PBUH), I speak for myself and other ahle sunnah as well, u cant be a proper muslim till you love ALi (ra) and Ahlul bayt, but true love is shown by following their ways, the way of quran and sunnah, and you wont really realize the severity of the issue of shiism till you study about it ...

InshAllah regarding your original question you should have gone to the scholar, but i feel like you already know the scholars would have said no, cause such huge issues should not be brought on to be answered by layman like most of the members here.

Unfortunately, the rawafidah (shia) trap the layman of muslims by using hadith and verses and other islamic text out of context mis-using it, misquoting it to confuse the layman, the hadith is never abandon, you just didn't take the study to study the hadith, ill post links inshAllah study, if you speak arabic or urdu there is alot more material on shism in those languages, english is just not there yet.

http://www.aqidah.com/creed/article...s-that-will-rule-all-of-them-from-quraish.cfm

http://www.schiiten.com/backup/AhlelBayt.com/www.ahlelbayt.com/articles/rebuttals/12-caliphs.html
 
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