The Beard

[Ershad]

As salam 'alaykum

I used to think that there is no ikhtilaf or dispute among sisters about Hijab and among brothers about beard,

at least to agree yes, this is what Islam says, but I don't follow, because i think this and that,
at least it makes a sense, but to refute the religious things on hawa or personal opinion

subhan Allah

when it comes to hawa, it just go nowhere....

I've not got so much to say

the appearance of Muslim man: Beard (at least a fist length) with trimmed mustaches and wearing at least from navel to the upper level of ankle.

Muslimah: from head to toe, except face, hand, feet; if there are many non mahrams, then also face. (actually which is the common things now, because the Islamic environment is not maintained everywhere and it is actually getting hard day by day.)


Brother TOMTOM has pointed a very good point:



so scholars say, hijab is okay, some say niqab, would you like to sisters take off their Hijab?

about your Question, Abdullah ibn Umar radhiAllahu anhu, he cut after one battle what was after fist length.

so it could be understood, that, yes he being one of the young sahaba, might have seen someone doing that.

however, not all people got the same kind of beard, some are curly, some are fixed after one length, so are just very long and straight. if it is problematic for one, he may trim it upto a fist length, from the lower part no the upper part of fist.......

wa-llahu a'lam
wassalam

:salam2:

May Allah reward you, akhi.

Brother tomtom,

Why are millions of Muslims (possibly more than 75% as a guess) throughout the world without a beard?

We don't look at the muslims around us as our role models. The role models are Prophet SAW and the salaf. They are the ones whom Prophet SAW labelled the righteous ones. They all had a beard without exceptions. It wasn't a cultural thing. It is part of Islam.. an essential one for us brothers. We should emulate the Prophet SAW and the salaf. The Prophet SAW didn't just show us how to pray, he showed us how to eat, how to keep oneself tidy, how to speak, almost everything. He is the way. Enter completely, my dear brother.

May Allah Guide us all.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Islam 101

There is no need for argument nor debate.

The goal is simple: we are striving to please Allah subhana wa taala.
End of subject...

Brother Tomtom...yes, there is the argument of nobody's perfect...but in Islam we have the dedication of authenticity that is not found anywhere else...and we have the awareness that each one of us will face Allah.
Start with the big boys of Islam..the four great scholars...it is amazing what you can learn...the way they were able to learn..how they retained and shared their knowledge...how humble they were...how they feared Allah.

 

[thariq2005]

Assalaamu `alaykum

Tomtom- You are not realizing that you are actually falling into the same 'mistake' you are accusing others off.

When I previously asked you as to how you know Saheeh al-Bukhaar is fully authentic you told me this:

Well it was easier for Bukhari to collect the sayings of the Prophet (pbuh) after about 194 years after the death of the Prophet (pbuh) than for me at 1633 years. I know they are authentic because other people at the time concurred it's authenticity, they were probably already written down and all Bukhari did was put them together into what it is today.

Tell me... do you, according to your above comment, agree that you 'blindly-follow' the authentication of al-Bukhaari and other scholars?

 

[inquizator]

Wa Alaikkum As'alaam

Without being arrogant I think I understand the Holy Qur'an and the Hadiths as it is. What I'm afraid of is that one of these scholars are wrong and I am deviated from the Straight Path. I admire the dedication of the scholars, spending most of their life seeking knowledge, and I'm sure that most were/are pious and God fearing people. The thing with human beings is that they can be corrupted any time. Isn't there also a danger that what the scholars are saying sounds good to us so that we follow it without knowing too much ourselves. A person following blindly another person has it's dangers. You know the old saying "nobody's perfect".

Off the beard Topic but Tomtom, I have wondered that myself so many times for so many years. I Trust Allah(swt) but when it comes to man, and I've known many different ones, he can be bias and opinionated and it can reflect elsewhere. Things touched by man, are just that, touched by man and I've learned to not trust man. Shame and wish I could.

Personally I do not know who these Scholars are and a link to them would be just Grand~!

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

ABC, simple as doe ray me , all fun aside here is a simple start: http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82210

 

[a_stranger]

:salam2:

I think that any muslem follow the prophet salla Allah alaihi wa sallam in his actions , appearance , faith, ....any thing.............will be rewarded ...but if we study Quran and Hadith we find out that what is in the heart of a muslem is the most important...... then ...things follow- but not all on the same level - we need to be united this the most important we should respect each other .........those who wear beard are better in appearance than those without since they are closer to the appearance of the prophet salla Allah alai wa sallam .......but it is pure hearts and good deeds that make us closer to Allah subhanahu wa taala. And Allahu aalam.

 

[Tomtom]

Can you show proof?

I don't think there was anyone in the first 3 generations who done it. The ones who did it were your less religiously committed modern wanna bees of that time and it was very disliked by the others.

Also, i would like to request the Mods to change the title of the thread. It seems the original poster disappeared on us.

As'alaamu Alaikkum

Can you show proof of what I have highlighted?

Also there is no need to get personal, I don't know you nor do you know me. This is what happens when Muslim brothers and sisters are asked difficult questions, they get defensive and then abusive. No wonder the kufr turns away in derision from us.

 

[Tomtom]

Assalaamu `alaykum

Tomtom- You are not realizing that you are actually falling into the same 'mistake' you are accusing others off.

When I previously asked you as to how you know Saheeh al-Bukhaar is fully authentic you told me this:



Tell me... do you, according to your above comment, agree that you 'blindly-follow' the authentication of al-Bukhaari and other scholars?

As'alaamu Alaikkum bro

I have answered your question. It was easier for Bukhari to collect the Hadiths and for somebody to authenticated it 200 years after the death of the Prophet (pbuh) than you or I. The Prophet (pbuh) said that the best generation is his generation then the one after, then the one after that and so on and so forth. After 1433 years AH how best are we?

 

[thariq2005]

As'alaamu Alaikkum bro

I have answered your question. It was easier for Bukhari to collect the Hadiths and for somebody to authenticated it 200 years after the death of the Prophet (pbuh) than you or I. The Prophet (pbuh) said that the best generation is his generation then the one after, then the one after that and so on and so forth. After 1433 years AH how best are we?

Wa `alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaah

Okay few questions/comments with regards to your post then:

The Prophet :saw2: said that regarding the first three generations- the Sahaabah, taabi`een and the generation after the taabi`een.

- Are you saying that it is fine to blind follow the scholars from these 3 generations? Because that is what I understand from your post.

- al-Bukhaari was not from these 3 generations just so you know.

- Do you agree that you are blind-following al-Bukhaari's authentication? Yes or No (You still haven't answered this question)
Whether or not it was easy for al-Bukhaari to collect the narrations is out of the question... unless you are saying that we accept the narrations of all the scholars who compiled narrations and wrote it down.


Finally one last question that links back to the topic:

You said that we should not follow any scholar and thus this means that we make our own judgement and derive our own rulings from the Qur'aan and Sunnah. Based on this, how do *YOU* go into sajdah- which of the two narrations are you going to act upon (and give me your reasons as to why you are going to act upon one of them and not the other):

Waa’il ibn Hujr said: “I saw the Messenger of Allaah :saw2:, when he did sujood, putting his knees down before his hands, and when he got up he raised his hands before his knees.” (Reported by Abu Dawood, al-Tirmidhi, al-Nisaa’i, Ibn Maajah and al-Daaraqutni (1/345).

Abu Hurayrah said: “The Messenger of Allaah :saw2: said, ‘When any one of you prostrates, let him not go down as the camel does; let him put his hands down before his knees.’” (Reported by Ahmad (2/381), Abu Dawood, al-Tirmidhi)

Wassalaamu `alaykum

 

[Tomtom]

FOR BROTHER THARIQ2005


- Are you saying that it is fine to blind follow the scholars from these 3 generations? Because that is what I understand from your post.

It is not in anybody’s interest to follow blindly any scholar. But what choice do we have? We were not there when these Hadiths were compiled and when they were authenticated. These Hadiths are accepted in Islam, so we all follow it, don't we?

- al-Bukhaari was not from these 3 generations just so you know.

Yes, what I meant was that the Hadiths were all written down, there were thousands and discarding the ones that do not correspond to the Qur’an and the way the Prophet (pbuh). For example, if there was a Hadith which said that the Prophet (pbuh) never performed wudu, then that would be wrong because there are hundreds of testimonies of the Prophet (pbuh) performing ablution before EVERY prayer.

- Do you agree that you are blind-following al-Bukhaari's authentication? Yes or No (You still haven't answered this question)

You know what? I think I am because these Hadiths were authenticated by people a long time ago and accepted in Islam, I have no way to verify if they were genuine or not. To be honest, I was a Quranist before I took the Shahada and people in another forum said that I must accept the Hadiths if I become a Muslim hence…But I will follow the Hadiths.

Finally one last question that links back to the topic:

You said that we should not follow any scholar and thus this means that we make our own judgement and derive our own rulings from the Qur'aan and Sunnah. Based on this, how do *YOU* go into sajdah- which of the two narrations are you going to act upon (and give me your reasons as to why you are going to act upon one of them and not the other):

Waa’il ibn Hujr said: “I saw the Messenger of Allaah , when he did sujood, putting his knees down before his hands, and when he got up he raised his hands before his knees.” (Reported by Abu Dawood, al-Tirmidhi, al-Nisaa’i, Ibn Maajah and al-Daaraqutni (1/345).

Abu Hurayrah said: “The Messenger of Allaah said, ‘When any one of you prostrates, let him not go down as the camel does; let him put his hands down before his knees.’” (Reported by Ahmad (2/381), Abu Dawood, al-Tirmidhi)

I would listen to what Abu Hurayrah said as he was a companion of the Prophet (pbuh) and I’ve never heard of the other bloke.

 

[thariq2005]

Waa'il ibn Hujr was a companion and this is known. Now that you know he is a companion too, please answer my last question before I can respond to you.

May Allaah increase you in beneficial knowledge.

 

[sachin4islam]

Assalamu Alaikum:

Now it seems that Muslims following,Alhamdulillah,same Aqeedah split on the matters of authentication of Hadiths.

As a new Muslim I have been injected (by Jamaat Ahlul Hadith) to not to question authenticity of Sahih Bukhari. Now here Muslims with identical Aqeedah smashing what I have been sticking to as guidance from learned.

?????????????????

I earnestly and with due regards,appeal to knowledgeable from TTI to unfold what Aqeedah actually this site sticks to.

Regards.

 

[thariq2005]

Wa 'alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaah

Bro sachin, no one is questioning the authenticity of saheeh al-Bukhaari. All that is being said is that a layman is a blind follower of scholars, whether he admits this or not. As an example, I mentioned that we are all blind-following al-Bukhaari in his authentication of narrations. We all need to know where we are standing in terms of Islaamic knowledge.

 

[sachin4islam]

Assalamu Alaikum:

A well grown beard is Sunnah of our Prophet(SAW) and simultaneously an identity of a Muslim.

Recently,I dared to flourish my beard. It was a cultivation of more than a month. The beard naturally grew in a fashion that distinctly identified me as a Muslim character. None of my family members appreciated this cultivation. But I kept ignoring. On fifth of December,my Mum caught with certain apprehensions,compelled me to shave off my beard. The very next day that is sixth of December is the day when 19 years before Babri Masjid was Shaheed by Hindu fanatics. And ever since 1992, sixth of December is a sensitive day in my communally volatile city.

It disappointed me. When I looked into the mirror for my shaven face at barber's shop,it apparently looked like a woman's face

The new crop is flourishing. And this time,InshaAllah it would sustain.

Regards.

 

[sachin4islam]

Wa 'alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaah

Bro sachin, no one is questioning the authenticity of saheeh al-Bukhaari. All that is being said is that a layman is a blind follower of scholars, whether he admits this or not. As an example, I mentioned that we are all blind-following al-Bukhaari in his authentication of narrations. We all need to know where we are standing in terms of Islaamic knowledge.

Assalamu Alaikum: Br Thariq.

Thanks for the reply.

I am never a blind follower of anything related to Deen. I have multitude of questions about various Hadiths from Sahih Bukhari. I have posted a thread about same matter before here on TTI. There was no satisfactory reply from anyone from TTI.

And certainly,there are many many Hadiths in Bukhari which contradict the attributes of our Prophet (SAW). How can I with close eyes engulf them?.

Lastly,I haven't been gifted Islam by birth. I struggled to be a Muslim and Allah (SWT) knows that this struggle is a routine for me.

And one thing more initially every layman has to be a blind follower but only to the time his intellect gains momentum for the concerned field of knowledge. He has to begin with someone blindly.

Regards.

 

[Tomtom]

Waa'il ibn Hujr was a companion and this is known. Now that you know he is a companion too, please answer my last question before I can respond to you.

May Allaah increase you in beneficial knowledge.

As'alaamu Alaikkum and Ameen to your du'a

Ok my son if both Hadiths are sahih the logical conclusion is that the Prophet (pbuh) did what Buhaira wrote because this is something that he said rather than somebody seeing him.

If this is not correct, then please enlighten us.

 

[thariq2005]

As'alaamu Alaikkum and Ameen to your du'a

Ok my son if both Hadiths are sahih the logical conclusion is that the Prophet (pbuh) did what Buhaira wrote because this is something that he said rather than somebody seeing him.

If this is not correct, then please enlighten us.

Wa `alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaah

Maybe one narration is authentic and the other is weak?

Maybe both are authentic and one is more authentic than the other?

Maybe one abrogates the other?

Maybe the Prophet :saw2: prayed both ways?

And there can be many other conclusions that can be derived. But any one of that can only be derived by a person of knowledge and not any layman. And that is the point I am trying to make.

As laymen there are only certain things we can research and this is very very limited and thus we end up blind-following a person of knowledge (whether we admit it or not) and this is due to the fact that we do not have enough knowledge to research because we do not know the Arabic Language, nor have deep knowledge of the evidences, nor know where there is a consensus, nor have knowledge of Usool al-Fiqh (when does something abrogate another hadeeth and other principles), nor do we have the knowledge of Mustalah al-Hadeeth (this is so one knows the authenticity of a narration) etc.

I say, again, that your principle is flawed that we as laymen are not in need of scholars and we just do our own research. This only leads to picking and choosing- which in essence is following one's desires (Br. Tomtom: Just saying this generally, nothing aimed at you- as I am sure you are sincerely seeking the truth).

An example of picking and choosing, you yourelf admitted that you are blind-following al-Bukhaari below:

You know what? I think I am because these Hadiths were authenticated by people a long time ago and accepted in Islam, I have no way to verify if they were genuine or not

Just like how you have no way to verify they are genuine or not- there is no way for you to even verify the translation of the Qur'aan. Think about it- you are blind-following the translation of the Qur'aan... right?

So as a layman you are blind-following scholars even if you say you are not :- )

 

[Tomtom]

Wa `alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaah

Maybe one narration is authentic and the other is weak?

Maybe both are authentic and one is more authentic than the other?

Maybe one abrogates the other?

Maybe the Prophet :saw2: prayed both ways?

And there can be many other conclusions that can be derived. But any one of that can only be derived by a person of knowledge and not any layman. And that is the point I am trying to make.

As laymen there are only certain things we can research and this is very very limited and thus we end up blind-following a person of knowledge (whether we admit it or not) and this is due to the fact that we do not have enough knowledge to research because we do not know the Arabic Language, nor have deep knowledge of the evidences, nor know where there is a consensus, nor have knowledge of Usool al-Fiqh (when does something abrogate another hadeeth and other principles), nor do we have the knowledge of Mustalah al-Hadeeth (this is so one knows the authenticity of a narration) etc.

I say, again, that your principle is flawed that we as laymen are not in need of scholars and we just do our own research. This only leads to picking and choosing- which in essence is following one's desires (Br. Tomtom: Just saying this generally, nothing aimed at you- as I am sure you are sincerely seeking the truth).

An example of picking and choosing, you yourelf admitted that you are blind-following al-Bukhaari below:



Just like how you have no way to verify they are genuine or not- there is no way for you to even verify the translation of the Qur'aan. Think about it- you are blind-following the translation of the Qur'aan... right?

So as a layman you are blind-following scholars even if you say you are not :- )

OK I submit my brother. I will listen to scholars from now on Insha'Allah.

Thanks for the dawah

 

[thariq2005]

OK I submit my brother. I will listen to scholars from now on Insha'Allah.

Thanks for the dawah

Maa shaa'Allaah may Allaah envelope you in His Mercy and may Allaah make us all seekers of knowledge for His sake.