To Sepithol

[IslamIsLight]

Hi Ann

I'm making this thread for you ...
You have been asking for the proofs,here they are ...
You spent so much time on arguments on this site and reading others arguments ,may be its time for you to read ,if you are sincere ..

Without reading the Quran the useless arguments will continue ...
the Miracle of The Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him ,was Quran ,yet many did not believe ....

Here is the Miracle and it is Quran .....
We all can can talk to you for hours and hours, but it will be useless ,because the all the answers are in the Quran ,and its your choice to find it or not..

The best speech is the speech of Allah ....

Here you can find whole Quran

http://www.digimode10.com/holyquran.htm
and here you can order a free copy

http://www.islamtomorrow.com/freequran.asp

Read this

Quran on The Origin of The Universe


The science of modern cosmology, observational and theoretical, clearly indicates that, at one point in time, the whole universe was nothing but a cloud of 'smoke' (i.e. an opaque highly dense and hot gaseous composition). This is one of the undisputed principles of standard modern cosmology. Scientists now can observe new stars forming out of the remnants of that 'smoke'. The illuminating stars we see at night were, just as was the whole universe, in that 'smoke' material. God said in the Quran:

Then He turned to the heavens when it was smoke...

[Noble Quran 41:11]




Because the earth and the heavens above (the sun, moon, stars, planets, galaxies, etc.) have been formed from this same 'smoke' we conclude that the earth and the heavens were one connected entity. Then out of this homogeneous 'smoke', they formed and separated from each other. God said in the Quran:

Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?..
[Noble Quran 21:30]


Professor Alfred Kroner is one of the world's well-known geologists. He is a Professor of the Department of Geosciences, University of Mainz, Mainz, Germany. He said, "Thinking where Muhammad came from .. I think it is almost impossible that he could have known about things like the common origin of the universe, because scientists have only found out within the last few years with very complicated and advance technological methods that this is the case." (From 'This is the Truth' [video]). Also he said, "Somebody who did not know something about nuclear physics fourteen hundred years ago could not, I think, be in a position to find out from his own mind, for instance, that the earth and the heavens had the same origin."





Quran on the mountains

A book entitled "Earth" is considered a basic reference text in many universities around the world. One of the authors of this book is Frank Press. He is currently the President of the Academy of Sciences in the USA. Previously, he was the science advisor to former USA President Jimmy Carter. His book says that mountains have underlying roots
[p. 435]

. These roots are deeply embedded in the ground. So mountains have a shape like a peg as is seen in an example on page 220 in the same book. Another illustration shows how the mountains are peg-like in shape, due to their deep roots
[p. 158]
.

This is how the Quran described mountains. God said in the Quran:

Have We not made the earth as a bed, and the mountains as pegs?
[Noble Quran 78:6-7]


Modern earth sciences have proven that mountains have deep roots under the surface of the ground and that these roots can reach several times their elevations above the surface of the ground. So the suitable word to describe mountains on the basis of this information is the word 'peg', since most of a properly set peg is hidden under the surface of the ground. The history of science tells us that the theory of mountains having deep roots was introduced only in the latter half of the nineteenth century.
[Geological Concept of Mountains p.5]


Mountains also play an important role in stabilizing the crust of the earth.
[Geological Concept of Mountains pp. 44-45]
. They hinder the shaking of the earth. God said in the Quran:

And He has set firm mountains in the earth so that it would not shake with you...
[Noble Quran 16:15]


Quran on Seas and Rivers



Likewise the modern theory of plate tectonics holds that mountains work as stabilizers for the earth. This knowledge about the role of mountains as stabilizers for the earth has just begun to be understood in the framework of plate tectonics since the late 1960's
[Geological Concept of Mountains p. 5]
.

Could anyone during the time of the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) have known of the true shape of mountains? Could any one imagine that the solid massive mountain which he sees before him, actually extends deep into the earth and has a root, as scientists assert? A large number of books of geology when discussing mountains, only describe that part which is above the surface of the earth. This is because these books were not written by specialists in geology. However, modern geology has confirmed the truth of the Quran's verses.

Modern Science has discovered that in the places where two different seas meet, there is a barrier between them. This barrier divides the two seas so that each sea has its own temperature, salinity, and density.
[Principles of Oceanography - Davis, pp. 92-93]


For example, Mediterranean Sea water is warm, saline and less dense, compared to Atlantic Ocean water. When Mediterranean Sea water enters the Atlantic over the Gibraltar sill, it moves several hundred kilometers into the Atlantic at a depth of about 1,000 meters with its own warm, saline and less dense characteristics.
The Mediterranean water stabilizes at this depth.
[Principles of Oceanography p. 93]


The Mediterranean Sea water as it enters the Atlantic over the Gibraltar sill with its own warm, saline and less dense characteristics, because of the barrier that distinguishes between them. Temperatures are in degrees Celsius (C).

Even in depths (indicated here by darker colors) up to 1,400 meters and at distances ranging from a minus -100 to +2,500 meters, we find that both bodies of water maintain their individual temperatures and salinity.

Although there are large waves, strong currents, and tides in these seas, they do not mix or transgress this barrier.

The Holy Quran mentioned that there is a barrier between two seas that meet and that they do not transgress. God said:

He has let free the two seas meeting to gather. There is a barrier between them. They do not transgress.

[Noble Quran 55:19-20]


But when the Quran speaks about the divider between fresh and salt water, it mentions the existence of "a forbidding partition" with the barrier.

God said in the Quran:

He is the one who has let free the two bodies of flowing water, one sweet and palatable, and the other salty and bitter. And He has made between them a barrier and a forbidding partition.
[Noble Quran 25:53]


On may ask, why did the Quran mention the partition when speaking about the divider between fresh and salt water, but did not mention it when speaking about the divider between the two seas?
Modern science has discovered that in estuaries, where fresh (sweet) and salt water meet, the situation is somewhat different from what is found in places where two seas meet. It has been discovered that what distinguishes fresh water from salt water in estuaries is a "pycnocline zone with a marked density discontinuity separating the two layers."
[Oceanography p. 242]


This partition (zone of separation) has a different salinity from the fresh water and from the salt water
[Oceanography p. 244 and Introductory Oceanography pp. 300-301]


This information has been discovered only recently using advanced equipment to measure temperature, salinity, density, oxygen dissolubility, etc. The human eye cannot see the difference between the two seas that meet, rather the two seas appear to us as one homogeneous sea. Likewise the human eye cannot see the division of water in estuaries into the three kinds: the fresh water, the salt water, the partition (zone of separation).


Quran on Human Embryonic Development


In the Holy Quran, God speaks about the stages of man's embryonic development, 1,400 years before modern day scientists 'discovered' important information on creation of man and his development:

We created man from an extract of clay. Then We made him as a drop in a place of settlement, firmly fixed. Then We made the drop into an alaqah (leech, suspended thing, and blood clot), then We made the alaqah into a mudghah (chewed-like substance)...
[Noble Quran 23:12-14]


Literally the Arabic word alaqah has 3 meanings:
leech
suspended thing
blood clot

1. "In comparing a leech to the embryo at the alaqah stage, we find similarity between the two."
[The Developing Human p.8]
.
"Also, the embryo as this stage obtains nourishment from the blood of the mother, similar to the leech which feeds on the blood of others."
[Human Development as Described in Quran and Sunnah p.36]
.

2. The second meaning of the word alaqah is 'suspended thing'. The suspension of the embryo, during the alaqah stage, in the womb of the mother very appropriately fits this description.

3. The third meaning of the word alaqah is 'blood clot'. We find that the external appearance of the embryo and its sacs during the alaqah stage is similar to that of a blood clot. This is due to the presence of relatively large amounts of blood present in the embryo during this stage. Also during this stage the blood in the embryo does not circulate until the end of the third week. So the embryo at this stage is like a clot of blood.

By examining a diagram of the primitive cardiovascular system in an embryo during the alaqah stage we would notice the external appearance of the embryo and its sacs is similar to that of a blood clot due to the presence of relatively large amounts of blood present in the embryo
[The Developing Human, p. 65]


So the three meanings of the word alaqah correspond accurately to the descriptions of the embryo at the alaqah stage.

The next stage mentioned in the verse is the mudghah stage. The Arabic word mudghah means "chewed-like substance." If one were to take a piece of gum and chew it in his mouth, and then compare it with the embryo at the mudghah stage, we would conclude that they would be almost identical because of the somites at the back of the embryo that 'somewhat resemble teeth marks in a chewed substance.'

How could Muhammad (peace be upon him) have possibly known all this 1,400 years ago when scientists have only recently discovered this using advanced equipment and powerful microscopes which did not exist at that time? Hamm and Leeuwenhoek were the first scientists to observe human sperm cells using an improved microscope in 1677 A.D. (more than 1,000 years after Muhammad, peace be upon him]. They mistakenly thought that the sperm cell contained a miniature preformed human being that grew when it was deposited in the female genital tract
[The Developing Human, p.9]


Professor Keith Moore is one of the world's prominent scientists in the fields of anatomy and embryology and is the author of the book entitled the "Developing Human", which has been translated into eight languages. This book is considered a scientific reference work and was chosen by a special committee in the United States as the best book authored by on person. Dr. Keith Moore is a Professor of Anatomy and Cell Biology at the University of Toronto, Toronto, Canada. In 1984, he received the most distinguished award presented in the field of anatomy in Canada, the J.C.B. Grant Award from the Canadian Association of Anatomists. He has directed many international associations, such as the Canadian and American Association of Anatomists and the Council of the Union of Biological Sciences.

In 1981, during the Seventh Medical Conference in Dammam, Saudi Arabia, Professor Moore said; "It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Quran about human development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from God, or Allah, because almost all of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later. This proves to me that Muhammad must have been the messenger of God, or Allah [The reference for this statement is on 'This is the Truth' (video tape). For a copy of this video tape please contact us].

Consequently, Professor Moore was asked the following question, "Does this mean that you believe that the Quran is the Word of God?" He replied; "I find no difficulty in accepting this."

During one conference, Professor Moore stated, "... because the stagein of human embryos is complex, owing to the continuous process of change during development, it is proposed that a new system of classification could be developed using the terms mentioned in the Quran and the Sunnah (sayings of Muhammad, peace be upon him). The proposed system is simple, comprehensive, and conforms with present embryological knowledge. The intensive studies of the Quran and Hadith (reliably transmitted sayings and reports of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him) in the last four years have revealed a system of classifying human embryos that is amazing since it was recorded in the 7th century A.D. Although Eric Statle, the founder of the science of embryology, realized that chick embryos developed in stages from his studies of hen's eggs in the fourth century B.C., he did not give any details about these stages. As far as it is known from the history of embryology, little was known about the stagein and classification of human embryos until the twentieth century. For this reason, the descriptions of the human embryo in the Quran cannot be based on scientific knowledge in the 7th century A.D. The only reasonable conclusion is that these descriptions were revealed to Muhammad from God. He could not have known such details because he was an illiterate man with absolutely no scientific training." [This is the Truth -video tape]



Think about the humans. How did we all get here? What is the nature of mankind? What causes us to act as we do? Are we ungrateful to the One who created us and sustains us? What is this clue? Think about yourself. Did you create yourself?




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[/CENTER]

 

[BigAk]

If Ann could only realize how lucky she is that she's stumbled on us....

Jazaki Allah khair sister AishaAnastasia for your patience and persistence. I admire you and those who have the perseverance despite all the illogic and prejudice. I hope to learn from you sisters and brothers.

.

 

[mhamzah]

Many religions say they are the only one and true religion and that other religions are an attempt to get to the truth. This is not exactly an Islamic idea. What Islam says is that religion began with truth and it was after words that people differed amongst themselves.

Mankind was [of] one religion [before their deviation]; then Allah sent the prophets as bringers of good tidings and warners and sent down with them the Scripture in truth to judge between the people concerning that in which they differed. And none differed over the Scripture except those who were given it - after the clear proofs came to them - out of jealous animosity among themselves. And Allah guided those who believed to the truth concerning that over which they had differed, by His permission. And Allah guides whom He wills to a straight path. (2:213)

That is why the first thing a Muslim is supposed to tell Jews and Christians is not to committ excess in their religion and not to attribute things to God that they cannot prove. Yes conversion to Islam is vital, but that the second and third step, first step is to stop committing excesses their religion.

O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. (Quran 4:171)

"Say: 'O People of the Book! You have no ground to stand upon unless you stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." (Qur'an 5:71).

People of the Book! Why do you mix truth with falsehood and knowingly conceal the truth? (Quran 3:71)

To make it easy for you, let me compare some of the fundamental of various religion.


Concept of God in Major Religions:

Islam

Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
And there is none like unto Him. (112:1-4)

Hinduism

Svetasvatara - Upanishad (4:19):

Na tasya pratima asti " "There is no likeness of Him.
http://www.hinduwebsite.com/sacredscripts/hinduism/upanishads/sveta.asp

Khandogya - Upanishad (6:2:1):

"Na casya kascij janita na cadhipah." "Of Him there are neither parents nor lord."
http://www.hinduwebsite.com/sacredscripts/hinduism/upanishads/chandogya.asp

Svetasvatara - Upanishad (4:20):

"na tasya pratima asti "There is no image of Him."
"Those under the influence of their respective natures, with their wisdom consumed by various desires, worship other gods, observing specific rituals and religious rites. (Gita 7:20)

http://www.hinduwebsite.com/gita7.asp


Comparison with Islam:

'Ekam evadvitiyam'
He is one only without a second. (Chandoga Upanishad 6:2;1)
Say: He is Allah, the one an only, Quran (12:1)

"Na casya kascji janita na cadhipah"
Of Him there are neither parents nor lord (Svetasvatara Upanishad 6:9)
He begetteh not, nor is he begotten (has no parents and children) (Quran 112:3)

"Na tasya pratima asti "
There us no likeness of Him (Svetasvatara Upanishad 4:19)
And there is none like unto him (Quran 112:4)

Zoroastrianism:

Attributes of God according to book of Dasatir;
1. He is one.
2. Nothing resembles Him.
3. He is wihout an origion or end.
4. He has no father, mother, wife or son.
5. Without a body or form
6. There is nothing like him.
7. He is above all you can imagine.


Judaism and Christanity: (Old and New Testament)

(Deut 6:4) Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

(Isaiah 43:11) I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

(Isaiah 45: 5) I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me.

(Isaiah 46:9) Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; (Exodus 20:3-5)

7. Thou shalt have none other gods before me. 8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth: 9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me, (Deut 7-9)

(Mark 12: 29) And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

 

[mhamzah]

5 Pillars of Islam:

1. Shahadah: I bear witness there is no God but Allah and I bear Witness that Muhammad (pbuh) is the messenger of Allah.

2. Prayers.
3. Fasting.
4. Zakat.
5. Hajj.

These Pillars in other religions:

Hinduism:

1. Shahadah: There is only one God explained above. Second part of Shahdah.

Prophet Muhammed in Hindu Scriptures
by By: Prof. Pundit Vaid Parkash (Non- Muslims)

***** The Last Kalki Autar (Messenger) that the Veda has foretold and who is waited on by Hindus is the Prophet Muhammed ibn Abdullah (saw) *****

A recently published book in Hindi has raised a lot of hue and cry all over India. In the event of the author being Muslim, he would have been jailed AND a strict ban would have certainly been imposed on the printing and the publishing of the book.

The author of this important research work "Kalki Autar" i.e. "Guide and Prophet of whole universe" comes of a Bengali race and holds an important portfolio at Ilahabad University. Pundit Vaid Parkash is a Brahman Hindu and a well known Sanskrit scholar and research workder.

Pundit Vaid Parkash, after a great deal of toil and hard-work, presented the work to as many as eight great Pundits who are themselves very well known in the field of research in India, and are amongst the learned religious leaders. Their Pundits, after thorough study of the book, have acknowledged this to be true and authentic research work.

Important religious books of India mention the guide and prophet by the specific name of "Kalki Autar" it denotes the great man Muhammed (saw) who was born in Makkah. Hence, all Hindus where-ever they may be, should wait no longer for any other 'kalik autar' but to embrace Islam and follow in the footsteps of the last Messenger of Allah (swt) who was sent in the world about fourteen hundred years ago with a mission from Him and after accomplishing it has long ago departed this world. As an argument to prove the authenticity of his research, Pundit Vaid Parkash quotes from the Veda, a sacred book among Hindus:

1. Veda mentions that 'kalki autar' will be the last Messenger/Prophet of Bhagwan (Allah) to guide the whole world. Afer quoting this reference the Pundit Parkash says that this comes true only in the case of Muhammed (saw).

2. According to a prophecy of Hinduism, 'kalki autar' will be born in an island and that is the Arab territory which is known as 'jazeeratul Arab'.

3. In the 'sacred' book of Hindus the father's name of 'kalki autar' is mentioned as 'Vishnu Bhagat' and his mother's name as 'somanib'. In sanskrit, 'vishnu' stands for Allah (swt) and the literal meaning of 'bhagat' is slave.

'Vishnu Bhagat' therefore, in the Arabic language will mean Allah's slave (Abdullah). 'Somanib' in Sanskrit means peace and tranquilty which in arabic is denoted by the word 'Amina'. Whereas the last Messenger Muhammed's (saw) father and mother's names were Abdullah and Amina respectively.

4. In the big books of Hindus, it is mentioned that 'kalki autar' will live on olive and dates and he will be true to his words and honest. In this regard Pundit Parkash writes, "This is true and established only in the case of Muhammed (saw)".

5. Veda mentions that 'kalki autar' will be born in the respected and noble dynasty of his land. And this is also true as regards Muhammed (saw) as he was born in the respected tribe of Quraish who enjoyed great respect and high place in Makkah.

6. 'Kalki Autar' will be taught in the cave by Bhagwan through his own messenger. And it is very true in this matter. Muhammed (saw) was the only one person in Makkah who has taught by Allah's Messenger Gabriel in the cave of Hira.

7. It is written in the books which Hindus believe that Bhagwan will provide 'Kalki autar' with the fastest of a horse and with the help of which he will ride around the world and the seven skies/heavens. The riding on 'Buraq' and 'Meraj' by the Prophet Muhammed (saw) proves what?

8. It is also written in the Hindus' books that 'kalki autar' will be strengthened and heavily helped by Bhagwan. And we know this fact that Muhammed (saw) was aided and reinforced by Allah (swt) through His angels in the battle of Badr.

9. Hindus' books also mention that 'kalki autar' will be an expert in horse riding, arrow shooting, and swordsmanship. What Pundit Vaid Parkash comments in this regard is very important and worth attention and consideration. He writes that the age of horses, swords, and spears is long ago gone and now is the age of modern weapons like tanks, missiles, and guns, and therefore it will be unwise to wait for 'kalki autar' bearing sword and arrows or spears. In reality, the mention in our books of 'kalki autar' is clearly indicative of Muhammed (saw) who was given the heavenly book known as Al-Qur'an

2. Prayer:

One of the forms of prayer In Hinduism is Sashtang, which means to prostate. Prostration is the vital position in Muslim Prayer.

Prostration is same as SASHTANG PRANAM or SAJDA

Prostration is a unique position or stance in the regular prayers. Hindus call it SASHTANG PRANAM and we , the muslims it as SAJDA. which a Muslim is supposed to offer at least five times a day. Although the basic purpose of obligatory prayers is not to provide an exercise for people yet it is being increasingly recognized that it has plenty of medical advantages for the human body.

The position of Sajda in which the forehead touches the ground is exclusively associated with the Muslim form of prayer. It is the climax of a Muslim's prayer and as mentioned in a Hadith a Muslim is nearest to Allah or God in this position.

Psychological Advantage: (though this is irrelevant to our disussion)
This is a great psychological advantage and it gives relief to the person concerned as life is full of worries and in this position he gets at least a transient refuge from the agonizing problems.

When a person goes to the position of Sajda (Prostration), his whole body is in active motion. This position can be considered as a mini dive as the musalli (one who offers prayer) goes to rest his forehead on the ground while his hands are placed at the sides. This brings most of the body muscles if not all in active motion and serves to give them some exercise. The hands are then specifically stretched out and thence the forearm as well as arm muscles are supposed to bear the weight in the Sajda (Prostration) position. It gives good exercise to the muscles of the upper limb. The Prophet (peace be upon him) in a hadith advised not to put the forearms flatly on the ground but to keep them elevated above ground and this is better for the forearm and arm muscles.

Sajda (Prostration) is a unique position as this is the only position in which brain (or head) becomes lower than the heart and hence for the first time the blood gushes towards the brain with full force whereas in all other positions (even when lying) brain is above the heart when it has to work against gravity to send blood to the brain. In the position of Sajda(Prostration) due to the increased blood supply the brain receive more nourishment and it has good effect upon memory, vision, hearing, concentration, psyche and all other cognitive abilities.

People who offer their prayers regularly have more will power and can cope with the difficulties of life in a much better manner. They have less incidence of headaches, psychological problems and other defects of cognitive function. In the unique position of Sajda (Prostration) the neck muscles get best exercise. They have to bear the load when the forehead lies at the ground hence the neck muscles become stronger. One can note the tense pressure at the neck muscles in the position of Sajda (Prostration) specially the active motion of the neck and the facial muscles when the head is being lifted. (e.g. one inch above the ground) and it will be noticed that they are in a very active motion.

More strong cervical muscles mean the cervical vertebra will be better protected. Strength of cervical muscles is important as the head rests upon cervical vertebra supported by cervical musculature. In fact head performs rotator movements over the cervical vertebra. In any accident cervical neck examination is especially important to the physicians because of its extraordinary importance. It is uncommon that a person who offers his prayers regularly will get the usual neck myalgias or cervical spondylosis as the neck muscles particularly become very strong due to the 34 sajdas (Prostrations) offered daily in five prayers. type="text/javascript">

The unique position of Sajda (Prostration) also has positive effects upon the back muscles as while going into Sajda and getting up from it the back muscle contract actively and they become stronger. Probably it is because of this reason that a person who is regular in prayers will (rarely) get backache.

Finally it must be reminded that (even though) prayer is not meant to be an exercise, there are a lot of medical advantages associated with it. Still the best blessing is the peace of mind, which a person derives by the accomplishment of his duty to Allah by fulfilling an obligation.

Zakat in Hinduism:

Let the rich satisfy the poor implorer, and bend his eye upon a longer pathway.

Riches come now to one, now to another, and like the wheels of cars are ever rolling. (Rig Ved Book 10: Hymn 117 Verse 5)

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv10117.htm

Fasting in Hinduism:

Fasting is the penance for omitting the daily rites prescribed by the Veda and for neglecting the special duties of a Snataka. He who has said ’Hum’to a Brahmana, or has addressed one of his betters with ’Thou,’shall bathe, fast during the remaining part of the day, and appease (the person offended) by a reverential salutation. (Manu 11: 203-204)

Pilgrimage in Hinduism:

In Iḷā's place we set thee down, upon the central point of earth. (Rig ved book 3 hymn 29 verse 4)

By Manu's law was born this Agni, Priest most skilled, born for the holy work of those who yearn therefore, yea, born for his own holy work. All ear to him who seeks his love and wealth to him who strives for fame,Priest ne’er deceived, he sits in Iḷā's holy place, girt round in Iḷā's holy place. (Rig veda Book 1 Hymn 128 verse 1)

Judaism and Christanity:

Shahdah: There is only one God explained earlier, second part;

Deuteronomy (18:18):

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."

It is mentioned in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12:

"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned saying, ‘Read this, I pray thee’; and he saith, ‘I am not learned’.

"When Archangel Gabriel commanded Muhammad (pbuh) by saying ‘Iqra’, he replied "I am not learned".

A Prophet like Moses

In the Bible, in Deuteronomy chapter eighteen, we have the words of Moses who reports that God told him that He would raise up a prophet, from among the brothers of the Israelites, like Moses.

Christians wish to apply this to Jesus, to say he was the prophet like Moses. It is uncomfortable for them to recognise, however, that Jesus was not very much like Moses and Jesus had no father, no wife, no children; he did not die of old age, and he did not lead a nation; all these things Moses had or did. But they say, well, Jesus will return; he will return as a victorious person, and so he will be more like Moses. Do they really expect he will return to also acquire a father and a wife and children and then die of old age? Not usually. Moreover, Jesus was an Israelite. The passage of scripture says that this prophet that was foretold would be raised up among the brothers of the Israelites, not from the Israelites.

In the third chapter of Acts, the disciple Peter speaks to a crowd of people and explains that Jesus has been taken up and he is in heaven. He will remain in Heaven and he cannot return until all the things that were promised by God come to pass. So what are we still waiting for, does he tell the crowd? He quotes this very saying of Moses, saying.

"For God will raise up a prophet from among the brothers of the Israelites like Moses..."

The point is very clear. Christians like to see this prophet as being Jesus. But read carefully Acts chapter three, what it says is that Jesus awaits a return. He cannot return until the fulfilment of this prophecy that another prophet has to come. Jesus spoke of it himself and the words survived, just barely, but they survived in the Bible. Jesus spoke of God sending another "Paraclete".

Paraclete

There is a lot of argument over the meaning of this word "Paraclete". For now we can leave that aside. What is a "Paraclete"? It does not matter. The first letter of John shows that Jesus was a "Paraclete". He is called a "Paraclete" and we have Jesus promising another "Paraclete" is going to be sent.
We lose a lot by this word "another" in English because it is ambiguous. If someone’s car breaks down, and it is a Toyota, and I say, "I'II go and get you another car," maybe I mean, "I'II go and get you another Toyota because this one you have is broken," or maybe I mean, "Forget Toyota, they're no good; I'II go and get you a Datsun." It is an ambiguous word.
But the Greeks had a word for it. When they meant "another" of the same kind, they said aloes. When they meant another of a different kind, they said heteroes. The important thing here is that, when Jesus, who was himself a Paraclete, said "God will send you another Paraclete" he used the word aloes, not heteroes.

Christians want to say that this other "Paraclete" that has been sent was different from Jesus. It was not a man, it was a spirit. What Jesus said was: "God will send you another one like me, another man." Muslims believe that Muhammad is the fulfilment of this prophecy by Jesus. The Qur'an says that this man is mentioned in the scriptures of the Jews and the Christians (see 7:157).

Christians came to expect the return of Jesus because of a Jewish misunderstanding. "Messiah" and "Son of Man" have been given special significance by the Jews, even though many people were called by this same name as in the Bible. The Jews came to expect a victorious leader. When Jesus did not turn out to be quite what many expected, they hatched the idea that he would return some day and fulfill all these prophecies.
Hajj:

Pilgrmage to Becca.

4 Blessed are they that dwell in thy house: they will be still praising thee. Selah. 5 Blessed is the man whose strength is in thee; in whose heart are the ways of them. 6 Who passing through the valley of Baca make it a well; the rain also filleth the pools. (Psalms Chapter 84: 4-6)
The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka (Makkah): Full of blessing and of guidance for all kinds of beings. (Quran 3:96)

Prayer and Fasting:

Both prayer and fasting are mentioned both in Old and New Testament a number of times.

Zoroastrians:

Shahadah: First part explained above, second part.

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in Dasatir:

The sum and substance of the prophecy mentioned in Dasatir is, that when the Zoroastrian people will forsake their religion and will become dissolute, a man will rise in Arabia, whose followers will conquer Persian and subjugate the arrogant Persians. Instead of worshipping fire in their own temples, they will turn their faces in prayer towards Kaaba of Abraham (pbuh) which will be cleared of all idols. They (the followers of the Arabian Prophet), will be a mercy unto the world. They will become masters of Persia, Madain, Tus, Balkh, the sacred places of the Zoroastrians and the neighbouring territories. Their Prophet will be an eloquent man telling miraculous things.
This Prophecy relates to no other person but to Muhammad (pbuh).

Criteria to be successul:

By (the Token of) Time (through the ages), Verily Man is in loss, Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy. (Quran 103: 1-3)

Both Faith and works are important.

Judaism and Christanity:

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. (Book of James 2:26)[/B]

 

[mhamzah]

Basis for Muslim Belief

BASIS OF MUSLIM BELIEF​

Dr Gary Miller​

Dilemma of Applying Reason

Almost all of us have been faced with the questioning of a child by repeating one word over and over. He can be very frustrating to us as he asks "Why?" If you put a knife beyond his reach, he wants to know, "Why?" When you explain it is sharp, he asks "Why?" And so you explain, "in order to cut fruit," and he asks, "Why?" And so it goes. It illustrates the dilemma of applying reason. What we have to do when we apply reason is first to set standards of proof. We decide for ourselves, "What will be satisfied with if I find such and such and so and so that constitutes for me a final proof?". We have to decide on that first. What happens though is that on the really important issues, the philosophical matters, thinkers set standards of proof and they take a look at their subjects and eventually they may arrive at their standards. They may arrive at the point which they say would constitute a proof. But then they ask for a proof of the proof.

Setting Standards

The key to avoiding an endless dissatisfaction is to satisfy ourselves about standards first; to satisfy ourselves that such and such are a list of criteria that constitute proof, satisfying proof, and then we test the subjects that we examine. In particular I will apply this to the Qur'an. Ask a thoughtful Christian why he is a Christian, and he will usually reply, "The miracle of the Resurrection." The basis for his belief being that about two thousand years ago a man died and he was raised from the dead. That is his miracle, his "touchstone", because all else depends on that. Ask a Muslim, "Well, what is your miracle? Why are you a Muslim? Where is your miracle?" and the Muslim can go over and take his miracle off the shelf and hand it over to you because his miracle is still with us today. It is the Qur'an; it is his "touchstone".

Sign of God

While all the prophets have their signs, Moses had the competition with the magicians and the Pharaoh, Jesus healed the sick and raised the dead and so on, one Sign was given to the last of the prophets. According to the Muslims, this is the Qur'an. And this one Sign is still with us. Does not that after all seem fair, that if Prophethood is to end that the last prophet should bring something that stays with us so that, in fact, a Muslim who takes his religion seriously suffers no disadvantage to Muslims who lived fourteen centuries ago? Those people who kept company with the Prophet had access to no more of the necessary information than we have today. They had the Qur'an. That was the sign for them. It is still a sign to us today, the same miracle. Well, let us test the Qur'an. Suppose that if I say to a man, "I know your father." Probably he is going to examine the situation and see if it seems likely that I have met his father. If he is not convinced, he will start asking me questions like: "You know my father, you say, is he a tall man? Does he have curly hair? Does he wear glasses?," and so on. If 1 keep giving him the right answers to all these questions, pretty soon he is going to be convinced. "Well, I guess this man did meet my father like he said." You see the method.

The Big Bang Theory

Here in the Qur'an we have a book which claims that its author is one who was present at the beginning of the universe, at the beginning of life. So, we have a right to address that author and say, "Well, tell me something prove to me that you were there when the world began, when life began." The Qur'an gives us an interesting statement. It reads:

Have not the disbelievers seen that the Heavens and the Earth were one piece and we parted them? And We made every living thing from water. Will they not then believe? (21:30).

There are three key points here. First of all, it is the disbelievers who are mentioned as being those who would see that the heavens and the earth were one piece and then parted and would see that all life came to be made from water. As it happens, the universally accepted theory of the origin of the universe is now the Big Bang theory. It maintains that at one time all of the heavens and the earth were one piece, the monoblock as it is called. At a particular point in time, this "monoblock" burst and it continues to expand. This gives us the universe we have today. This was a recent discovery, a recent confirmation.

The Nobel Prize in Physics was awarded only a few years ago to those who confirmed the Big Bang origin of the universe. It was only about two hundred years ago that Leeuwenhoek and others perfected the microscope and discovered for the first time that living cells are composed of about eighty percent water. Those Nobel prize winners and the Dutchman who invented the microscope were not Muslims. And yet they confirmed the vital statement that at one time the universe was one piece, that life was made from water, just as this verse says:

"Have not the disbelievers seen that the heavens and the earth were one piece and We parted them? And We made every living thing from water. Will They not then believe?" (21:30).

Well, this sounds like an answer to the question we started with when we ask the author. "Tell me something that shows me you were present when the universe began, when life began?"

Taking a Stand

Everyone must be committed to something. You have to put your foot down some place. It is impossible to be neutral at all times. There has to be a point of reference in the life of any thinking individual. You have to take a stand somewhere. The question, of course, is to put your foot down in the right place. Since there is no such thing as a proof of a proof of a proof and so on, in order to find the right place to put one’s foot down, to take a stand, we have to search and find that place and it is by a method that I hope to illustrate here.

It is a question of finding a point of convergence. You see, we search for truth in many places and we begin to know that we are succeeding in finding the truth if all our different paths start to converge; they start to come together at the same point.

If we are examining a book, looking for evidence of divine origin, and we are led to Islam, this is one path. If at the same time, we are examining the words of all those who were called prophets and we find ourselves led to Islam, we have a firmly grounded basis for belief We started looking for truth in two different places and found ourselves going down the path headed for the same destination.

No one ever proves all things. We have to stop at some point being satisfied with our standards as I have mentioned earlier. The point is, in order to take a stand and to be sure it is in the right place, we want to examine all the evidence around us and see where does it lead us and anticipate this point of convergence; to say it looks like all things are pointing to this place. We go to that place and then look at the data around us to see if it fits into place. Does it now make sense? Are we standing is on right place?

The Expanding Heavens

Let me first show more of our examination of the Qur'an, and then an examination of some words of prophets to find this point of convergence. In chapter fifty one, verse forty seven, it is mentioned that the heavens are expanding. As I mentioned earlier, this is in connection with the "Big Bang" origin of the universe, as it is usually called, and it was in 1973 that the Nobel Prize was awarded to three men who were confirming that, after all, the universe is expanding.

The comments of Muslims over the centuries on this verse which speaks of the heavens doing exactly that is very interesting. The wisest among them had stated that the words are very dear, that the heavens are expanding, but they could not imagine how that could be so. But they were content to leave the words as they were, to say: "Allah knows best."

The City of Iram

The Qur'an mentions a city by the name of Iram (89:7). The city of Iram has been unknown to history, so unknown that even some Muslim commentators, out of embarrassment or feeling apologetic for their religion, have commented on this mention of the city in the Qur'an as being perhaps figurative, that Iram was possibly a man and not a city.

In 1973 the excavation in Syria at the site of the ancient city of Eblus uncovered the largest collection of cuneiform writings on clay tablets ever assembled. In fact, the library discovered in Eblus contains more day tablets that are more than four thousand years old than all the other tablets combined from all the other sites.

Interestingly enough, you will find the details in the National Geographic of December 1978 (pp.730- , esp. p.736) which confirms that in those tablets the city of Iram is mentioned. The people of Eblus used to do business with the people of Iram. So here in 1973, comes confirmation of the fact that, after all, there really was an ancient city by that name, wherever it was. How did it find its way into the Qur'an, we might ask?

Those Muslims, who may have offered their comments, trying to explain away this reference that they were uncomfortable with, were outsmarted by the author of the Qur'an. They are those who would outsmart the author of the Qur'an They would attempt it. Primarily, their activity would involve trying to produce the evidence that the author of this book had a primitive understanding of the world around us.

The Smallest Matter

For example, there is a word which is translated today usually in Arabic as zarrah. This is usually translated as "atom" and it is usually thought of in Arabic as being the smallest item available at one time. Perhaps the Arabs thought it was an ant or a grain of dust. Today the word is usually translated as "atom".

Those who would outsmart the author of the Qur'an have insisted that, well, the atom is not after all the smallest piece of matter because in this century it has been discovered that even the atom is made of still smaller pieces of matter. Is it then possible to outsmart the author who chose to use this word? Well, there is an interesting verse, in chapter ten, verse sixty one, which speaks of items the size of a zarrah, (atom) or smaller. There is no possibility that on this subject someone is going to say a new discovery has outdated the words of the Qur'an on the issue of the size of matter or the ultimate particles. The verse talks about items the size of a zarrah (atom) or smaller.

Forgiveness

Speaking of outsmarting the author of the Qur'an, the Islamic point of view is that when a man embraces Islam, his past is forgiven from the very beginning. This has been the invitation to Islam: come to Islam and all is forgiven from the past.

But consider this. There is only one enemy of Muhammad, peace be upon him, who is mentioned by name in the Qur'an: one Abu Lahab. In a short chapter of this book, he is condemned to punishment for his sins.

As it happens, the man himself was alive for many years after this revelation. He could therefore have finished Islam very easily. He needed only to go to the Muslims to announce his conversion. They had in their hands the revelation which said that this man is doomed to punishment. He could have gone to the Muslims and say- "I accept Islam, am I forgiven or not?"

He could have confused them so much as to finish this small movement because he would have been pointing out to them that they were now in confusion. The policy was instant forgiveness of the past but their own revealed scripture announced that he was not forgiven. As it was, Abu Lahab died without accepting Islam.

Predictions

In fact, the Qur'an confidently predicted a number of things only a few years before they came to pass. The fall of the Persian empire, for example, was predicted in spite of the fact that it had just suffered a serious military reverse. The evidence was all to the contrary. But in the chapter entitled Rom, the fall of the Persian Empire who were recently victors over the Romans was predicted.

When all the Muslims in the world could meet in one room, the revelations were already discussing their future successes. In confidence, they were planning for the day when they would be in charge of the city where they were forced at that time to hide for their very lives.

Evidence of Divine Origin

Some people may like to find any number of things in the Qur'an. But an honest method in examining this book, looking for evidence of the Divine origin, is to take things at their value, to look for things that are dear and to look in those places where we are invited to look. Remember the passage that I quoted earlier "Have not the disbelievers seen..." This a common phrase of the Qur’an: "0 Man, Have you not seen." The invitation is to examine the evidence in these places. We are doing the sensible thing if we examine the words used to look for the doubted meaning and to find evidence of the Divine origin. Each one of us is an expert on something. One does not have to have a degree in a particular subject to decide that now, "I can take my expertise to the Qur'an and see what I can find." We all know something for sure from our own experience and life. I heard a story, several years ago in Toronto, of a man who was given the Qur'an to read. The man was a member of the merchant marines who spent his life on the sea. When he read a verse in the Qur'an describing the waves on the ocean, "waves within waves and the darkness between," he was surprised because the description was just what he knew the situation to be. When he returned the Qur'an to the man who gave it to him to read, he asked him (because he was completely ignorant of the origins of Islam): "This Muhammad was he a sailor?" Well, of course, he was quite surprised to know that the man spent his life in the desert. So he had to ask himself. "From where did he get this knowledge of what looks like on a stormy sea?"

We all know something that we can be confident of, and if we can turn to the Qur'an to read what it says about this subject, we are asking for confirmation of our belief in the Divine origin of the book.

The Two Phenomena

A friend of mine from the University of Toronto had the experience of dealing with a man who was doing his doctorate in psychology. He chose as his subject: "The Efficiency of Group Discussion".

He suggested a number of criteria as to what constitutes an efficient discussion. He graphed the process; that is, he achieved a measure of the efficiency of all groups in their discussions according to an index by his system. On his graph he indicated the progress made by the discussion groups of various sizes.

The interesting thing that happened which he did not expect to find when he began his project was that, while there were some differences between the size of any given group and how well they did in discussions, he was surprised to find that groups of two were completely off his scale. In other words, when two people sit down to discuss something; they were so much more efficient than any other size of group that it went completely off his scale of measurement.

When my friend heard about this, something went on at the back of his mind. My friend, being a Muslim, thought there was something familiar here about this idea. The psychology researcher was not a Muslim. He was debating with himself on changing the topic of his thesis. Should he call it "Ihe Phenomenon of Two" or "The Two Phenomena"? He was so surprised at his discovery.

Meanwhile, my friend found that there is a verse in the Qur'an, and he found it for himself on the same night, which speaks on discussions and the size of groups and how efficient they are. And maybe we should not be surprised to find that it is the groups that are two in numbers that do the best in achieving results. The verse in the Qur'an reads, concerning discussion groups, that when discussing the Qur'an one should sit alone and reflect on its meaning or discuss it in groups of two.

 

[mhamzah]

continued

Use and Mention of Words

For myself, as I said everyone knows something for sure or has an interest and experience in life; my interest is in mathematics and logic. There is a verse in the Qur'an which says:

"This is a scripture whose verses are perfected and then expounded." (11:1)

Which tells me that there are no wasted words in the Qur'an; that each verse is perfected and then it is explained. It could not be in a better form. One could not use fewer words to say the same thing or if one uses more words one would only be adding superfluous information.

This directed my attention to a particular mathematical subject, a logical subject, and I examined the Quran to see if I could find something of what I knew to be the case.

A revolution in logic has occurred in the last one hundred years, primarily over the difference between use and mention of words. A structure of logic seemed to be in danger of collapsing about a hundred years ago because it came to the attention of the people who studied these matters that the structure was not quite sound. The issue involved "self-reference" and the use and the mention of words which I will explain briefly.

Aristotle’s law of the "excluded middle" was the statement that every statement is either true or false. About a hundred years ago, somebody pointed out that the law of the excluded middle is a statement and is therefore not a law after all. It could just as well be false as well as true.

This was a tangled knot for the logicians to untie until they came to understand the difference between the use and the mention of a word.

When we use a word, we consider its meaning. When we mention a word we are discussing the word itself. If I say Toronto is a large city, I mean Toronto, that place, is a large city. If I say Toronto has seven letters, I am talking about the word "Toronto". In the first case I used the word and in the second I mentioned the word. You see the distinction.

Jesus and Adam

Connecting these ideas and the idea that the Qur'an is composed of verses that are perfected and then expounded for us, consider the verse which says:

"The likeness of Jesus before Allah is as the likeness of Adam." (3:59)

It is very clear that what we have in this statement is an equation. This verse goes on to explain how that is true because they both came under unusual circumstances rather than having a mother and a father in the usual human reproductive way. But more than that, 1 got to consider the use of the mention of words.

The words are used clearly enough. Jesus is like Adam and by Jesus and Adam, we mean those two men. But what about the mention of the words? Was the author aware of the fact that if we were considering the words as words in themselves, this sentence also reads that "Jesus" is somehow like "Adam". Well, they are not spelt with the same letters; how can they be alike in this revelation? The only answer came to me fairly quickly and I took a look at the index of the Qur'an.

The index of the Qur'an has been made available only since 1945. This book was the result of years of work by a man and his students who assembled a book which lists every word in the Qur'an and where it can be found.

So, when we look up the word Isa (Jesus), we find it in the Qur'an twenty-five times. When we look up Adam, we find it in the Qur'an twenty-five times. The point is that they are very much alike in this book. They are equated. So, following up on this idea, I continued to examine the index looking for every case where something was set up as an equation, where the likeness of something was said to be the likeness of some other thing. And in every case, it works. You have for example a verse which reads:

"The likeness of those who reject our signs is as the likeness of the dog." (7:176)

Well, the phrase in Arabic for "the people who reject our signs" could be found in the Qur'an exactly five times. And so is the Arabic word for "the dog" (al-kalb). And there are several instances of exactly the same occurrence.

It was some months after I found this for myself that a friend of mine, who is continuing this investigation with me, made a suggestion that there are also some places in the Qur'an where one thing is said to be not like another thing.

As soon as he mentioned this up to me, we both went for the index and had a quick look at several places where one thing is said to be not like another thing and counted their occurrence in the Quran. We were surprised and maybe should not have been to find that, after all, they do not match up. But an interesting thing does happen. For example, the Qur'an makes it very clear in the verse that trade is not like interest. The two words will be found six times for one and seven for the other. And so it is in every other case.

When one thing is said to be not like another, they occur for a difference of one time. It would be five of one and four of the other, or seven of one and eight of another.

Good and Evil

There is one interesting verse which, I felt, spoke directly to me from right off the page. It mentions two words in Arabic, al-khabeeth (the evil), and al-taib (the good). The verse reads:
"Say, the evil and the good are not comparable, even though the abundance of evil will surprise you. So be mindful of your duty to Allah, 0 Man of understanding, that you may succeed." (5:100)

Well, I had a look at those two words in Arabic, the evil and the good, and found it in the Qur'an that they both occur seven times. Yet the verse here is saying that they are not comparable. I should not expect to find that they occur the same number of times. But what does the rest of this verse say?

"The evil and the good are not comparable. The abundance of the evil will surprise you" and it did for there were too many of them. But it continues:

"So be mindful of your duty to Allah, 0 Man of understanding that you may succeed."

So press on. Use your understanding and you will succeed. That is what the verse said to me. Well, I found the answer in one verse further on where it reads:

"Allah separates the evil from the good. The evil He piles one on top of the other, heaping them all together." (8:37)

Here is the solution to the difficulty. While we have seven occurrences of al-khabeeth (the evil) which matches up with the occurrences of al-taib (the good), according to the principle of this verse, evil is separated from good and is piled one on top of the other and heaped all together. We do not count them as seven separate instances.

Occurrence of Words

A favourite difficulty, or supposed difficulty, which critics like to cite or have cited in the past years concerning the Qur’an, is that, apparently to their thinking, the author of this book was ignorant because he advised the Muslims to follow the lunar year instead of the solar year. The critics say the author was unaware of the difference in the length of years that if one follows twelve lunar months one loses eleven days every year.
The author of the Qur'an was well aware of the distinction between the length of the solar year and the lunar year. In chapter eighteen, verse nine it mentions three-hundred years and gives their equivalent as three-hundred and nine years. As it happens, three-hundred solar years is equal to three-hundred and nine lunar years.

Let us go back to my original scheme of the occurrence of words in the Qur'an. The Arabic word for "month", shahar, will be found twelve times in the Qur'an. There are twelve months in a year. If we find twelve months, how many days should we expect to find? The word in Arabic is yaum, and as it happens you will find that the word occurs three-hundred and sixty-five times in the Qur'an.

As a matter of fact, the original issue which had me interested in looking up the occurrence of months and days was this distinction between the solar year and the lunar year. Well, for twenty-five centuries it has been known that the relative positions of the sun, moon and earth coincide every nineteen years. This was discovered by a Greek by the name of Meton, and it is called the Metonic cycle. Knowing this, I looked again to the index for the word "year", sanah, and found, sure enough, that it occurs, in the Qur'an nineteen times.

Perfect Balance of Words

Now, what is the point of this perfect balance of words? For myself, it shows the author was well aware of the distinction between using words and mentioning words, a fine logical point. But more than that, it indicates the preservation of this book.

After giving a lecture on the subject of the Qur'an, I touched on some of these subjects and a questionnaire from the audience afterwards said: "How do we know we still have the original Qur'an. Maybe pieces of it have been lost or extra parts been added?" I pointed out to him that we had pretty well covered that point because since these items, the perfect balance of words in the Qur'an, have come to light only in this generation, anybody who would have lost the portion of the book, hidden some of it or added some of their own would have been unaware of this carefully hidden code in the book. They would have destroyed this perfect balance.

It is interesting to note too that, well, such a thing might be possible to organise today by the use of a computer to coordinate all words so that whatever thought you might have as to a meaning of a sentence or however you might construe an equation out of a sentence, you could check for yourself and the book will always have the balance of words.

If that were possible today, if it were possible fourteen centuries ago, why would it be done and then left hidden and never drawn to the attention of those who first saw this book? Why it would be left with the hope of the author who contrive this, that maybe in many centuries someone will discover it and have a nice surprise? It is a scheme that does not make sense.

Best Explanation

We are told in the Quran that no questionnaire will come to the Muslims with the question for which a good answer has not been provided, and the best explanation for whatever his question. This verse says:
"For everything they say we are given something to go back to them and reply." (25:33)

We looked again to the index of the Qur'an and we found that the word, qalu (they say), is found three-hundred and thirty-two times. Now, what would be the natural counterpart? The Arabic word, qul, which is the command "say" and you will find at the index it also occurs three-hundred and thirty-two times.

Origin of the Qur'an

An interesting feature of the Qur'an is that it replies to its critics as to its origin. That is, no one has yet come up with a suggestion as to where this book came from which is not commented on within the book itself.

In fact, the new Catholic Encyclopaedia, under the heading Quran mentions that over the centuries there had been many theories as to where this book came from. Their conclusion: today, no sensible person believes any of these theories. This leaves the Christians in some difficulty. You see, all the theories suggested so far, according to this encyclopaedia, are not really acceptable to anyone sensible today. They are too fantastic.

Where did the book come from? Those who have not really examined the Qur'an usually dismissed it as being, as they say, a collection of proverbs or aphorisms, sayings that one man used to announce from time to time. They imagined that there was a man who, from time to time during the day, will think of some witty little sayings and spit it out and those around him will quickly write it down and eventually these were all collected and became the Qur'an.

Those who read the Qur'an will find that it is not anything like that at all. The collection of things said by the Prophet is the subject and the content of the Hadith. But the subjects and contents of the Qur'an are all in a form of a composition and explanation. I cite as an example the chapter, Yusuf, which is an entire story in great detail about one particular episode or one portion of the life of one man. It is a composition.

It is for this reason that virtually all those who have actually examined the Qur'an usually refer to it as being the product of the authorship as attributed to Muhammad and his "co-adjudicators". These were supposed to be people who would sit, with him and composed the Qur'an. You see, they imagined that the Qur'an was composed by a committee.

They acknowledged that there was too much information and it was too well composed for one man to have assembled. So, they imagined that a committee of men used to meet regularly, brought their various sources of information, composed something and then handed to this man and told him, "Go to the people tomorrow, this is your revelation." In other words, it was a fraud concocted by a group of people. But what do we know about fraud? The Qur'an reminds us as it says:

"Say, now the truth has come, and falsehood neither invents anything nor restores anything." (34:49).

It is hard to translate it into English precisely, but what this verse is telling us is that falsehood is not the source of a new thing. A new and truthful thing cannot come from falsehood and falsehood does not restore, to our minds, the facts. Truth is in agreement with facts. Falsehood is something else. So, falsehood is empty. If something is born in fraud, it will never bring us new information. It will never endure; it will only collapse over a period of time.

 

[mhamzah]

Challenge

Another interesting verse is a challenge which is addressed to those non-believers. It reads:

"Have they not considered the Qur'an, if it came, other than Allah, surely they will find in it many inconsistencies?" (4:82)

Here is a challenge to the reader. If you think you have an explanation where this book came from, have another look at the book. Surely you will be able to uncover some inconsistencies to support your case.

Imagine a student submitting a term paper or a final exam and then writing at the bottom of the page a note to his teacher "You will find no mistakes in this paper. There are no mistakes on this exam." Can you imagine the teacher letting that rest? The teacher would probably not sleep until uncovering some inconsistency after a challenge like that. It is not the way human beings speak. They do not offer challenges like that. But here we have it in the Qur'an, a direct challenge saying. "If you have a better idea as to where this book came from, here’s all you need to do. Find some inconsistencies."

There are critics who make the attempt, critics who try to say the Qur'an contains inconsistencies. A publication that came to my attention recently suggested that the Quran was contradictory on the subject of marriage, because in one place, it says: "Don’t marry more than one wife unless you can provide for them all," and in another place it says: "Don’t marry more than four." They see this as a contradiction. What they have is a counter-distinction. In one case, the qualification for marrying more than one has been given. In the other case, a limitation on how many may be married is given. There is no contradiction.

Critics are too quick to grab hold of something, give it an interpretation, and then offer it as an excuse to escape the reality of this document.

For critics who would attack the Qur'an and insist it contains mistakes, we can use the same method as in our reply to Christians who claim that Jesus is on record as claiming to be equal to God. Remember the three categories of evidence offered. The evidence offered was insufficient, ambiguous or impossible.

You see, if someone cites a verse from the Qur'an, trying to show that it is a mistake, we only need to show that the verse cited is insufficient to establish that there is a mistake or we need to show that the verse cited has other meanings than the one given by the critic or we can demonstrate that the verse cited cannot possibly have the interpretation which the critic is giving it. It will always fall into one of these three categories.

Attributing to the Devil

I had the experience, on one occasion, describing some of the contents in the Qur'an to a man who did not know the book I was talking about. He sat next to me, with the cover turned over. I just told him about the book, what it contained and told him it was not the Bible. His conclusion was, the book was miraculous. This man was a minister in a Christian Church. He said, "Yes, that book could not possibly have originated with the man and therefore it must come from the devil, because it's not the Bible."

The Qur'an comments on this suggestion in chapter twenty-six, verse two-hundred and eleven as to those who would suggest that the book came from the devil. It points out that it does not quite suit him, does it? Is this how the devil misleads people? He tells them, worship none but God; he insists that they fast, that they practice charity. Is this how the devil misleads people?

Compare the attitude of someone like this, to the attitude of the Jews who knew Jesus and opposed him until the very end. There is an episode reported in the Bible where Jesus raised a man from the dead, one Lazarus, who had been dead for four days. When Lazarus came out of the tomb, alive again, those Jews who were watching what did they do? Did they suddenly say that this man is a true prophet and become believers? No, the Bible says they immediately discussed among themselves that "since this man is working on his signs soon everyone will believe in him. We’ve got to find a way to kill him," and they attributed his miraculous powers to the devil. He raised that man by the power of the devil.

Now, the Christians who read that episode will feel very sorry for those Jews who had clear evidence right before their very eyes and attributed the miracles to the devil. Does it not appear that they may be doing the same thing when we illustrate what we have in the Qur'an and their final excuse is only. "It originated with the devil."

A Different Story

There are those who insist that the Qur'an was copied, that it originated in Christian and Jewish sources. As a matter of fact, a book published in recent years called Worshipping the Wrong God has stated, as though it were a fact, that after the first revelation of the Qur'an came to Muhammad, peace be upon him, that his wife died and so he quickly married a Jew and a Christian, and this is where he drew the rest of his sources for his book.

Well, they have the facts partly right. It was ten years after the first revelation of the Qur'an that his wife died, and it was another ten years after that when the Qur'an was virtually completed that he married a Jew and a Christian.

Did he copy from Jewish and Christian sources? In the Qur'an, the ruler of Egypt who opposed Moses is known as Fir'aun, not Pharaoh. The Jews and Christians have always said "Pharaoh". It is easy for an Arab to say "Pharaoh". But in the Qur'an, it is Fir'aun, with an "n". Why? Surely the Jews and the Christians who surrounded the Muslim community must have teased them about that and said: "You’ve got the word wrong. It’s "Pharaoh" and not Fir'aun." But they insisted on it and it continues that way in the Qur'an, Fir'aun.

As it happens, the historical writings of Herodotus, the Greek historian, oldest to this day, and Herodotus comments on the ruler of Egypt, being in his day and in the centuries before him, one man who went by the title of Fir'aun.

Did the book copy from the Christian sources? The Qur'an insists that Jesus was not crucified, that this was only an illusion, but that the Jews who thought they crucified Jesus were mistaken because it was not really so. Christians would have no part of that. As it happens, the idea that Jesus was not really crucified is really very ancient and can be traced back to the first century. But Christians who believed that were eliminated as heretics within the first two-hundred years after the time of Jesus and they were not teaching this doctrine anywhere around the Arabian Peninsula fourteen centuries ago.

Could the author of the Qur'an have been copying from Christian sources when he says that Jesus spoke to man as a babe (3:46) and in later life? The Arabic word used indicates that he was still speaking to man and teaching to them in his forties. The Christians have always maintained that Jesus was gone by the time he was thirty-three. It indicates that there could have been no copying. In fad, a man would have to be stubborn and insists on the points as explained in the Qur'an in the face of Christian opposition who would have said: "No! No! It wasn’t like that. We tell the story differently."

House Cleaning

Now we go to the words of the prophets themselves, which represent another path that leads to Islam. In the Persian scriptures, which have been around for thousands of years, we read:

"When the Persians should sir& so low in morality, a man will be born in Arabia whose followers will upset their throne, religion and everything. The mighty stiff-necked ones will be overpowered. The house which was built and in which many idols have been placed will be purged of idols and people will say their prayers facing towards it. His followers will capture the towns of the Farsi, Entaus and Balkh, and other big places round about. People will embroil with one another. The wise men of Persia and others will join his followers." (Desature no.14)

The Muslims recognise this very quickly because the Ka"abah, the building which all Muslims face in prayers everyday, was at one time filled with idols and it was part of the mission of Muhammad, peace be upon him, to purge the house of idols. They were destroyed and the house sits there cleansed of idols till today. It was in the next generation, after the time of the Prophet that the wise men of Persia and others did join his followers.

A Prophet like Moses

In the Bible, in Deuteronomy chapter eighteen, we have the words of Moses who reports that God told him that He would raise up a prophet, from among the brothers of the Israelites, like Moses.

Christians wish to apply this to Jesus, to say he was the prophet like Moses. It is uncomfortable for them to recognise, however, that Jesus was not very much like Moses and Jesus had no father, no wife, no children; he did not die of old age, and he did not lead a nation; all these things Moses had or did. But they say, well, Jesus will return; he will return as a victorious person, and so he will be more like Moses. Do they really expect he will return to also acquire a father and a wife and children and then die of old age? Not usually. Moreover, Jesus was an Israelite. The passage of scripture says that this prophet that was foretold would be raised up among the brothers of the Israelites, not from the Israelites.

In the third chapter of Acts, the disciple Peter speaks to a crowd of people and explains that Jesus has been taken up and he is in heaven. He will remain in Heaven and he cannot return until all the things that were promised by God come to pass. So what are we still waiting for, does he tell the crowd? He quotes this very saying of Moses, saying.

"For God will raise up a prophet from among the brothers of the Israelites like Moses..."

The point is very clear. Christians like to see this prophet as being Jesus. But read carefully Acts chapter three, what it says is that Jesus awaits a return. He cannot return until the fulfilment of this prophecy that another prophet has to come. Jesus spoke of it himself and the words survived, just barely, but they survived in the Bible. Jesus spoke of God sending another "Paraclete".

Paraclete

There is a lot of argument over the meaning of this word "Paraclete". For now we can leave that aside. What is a "Paraclete"? It does not matter. The first letter of John shows that Jesus was a "Paraclete". He is called a "Paraclete" and we have Jesus promising another "Paraclete" is going to be sent.

We lose a lot by this word "another" in English because it is ambiguous. If someone’s car breaks down, and it is a Toyota, and I say, "I'II go and get you another car," maybe I mean, "I'II go and get you another Toyota because this one you have is broken," or maybe I mean, "Forget Toyota, they're no good; I'II go and get you a Datsun." It is an ambiguous word.

But the Greeks had a word for it. When they meant "another" of the same kind, they said aloes. When they meant another of a different kind, they said heteroes. The important thing here is that, when Jesus, who was himself a Paraclete, said "God will send you another Paraclete" he used the word aloes, not heteroes.

Christians want to say that this other "Paraclete" that has been sent was different from Jesus. It was not a man, it was a spirit. What Jesus said was: "God will send you another one like me, another man." Muslims believe that Muhammad is the fulfilment of this prophecy by Jesus. The Qur'an says that this man is mentioned in the scriptures of the Jews and the Christians (see 7:157).

Christians came to expect the return of Jesus because of a Jewish misunderstanding. "Messiah" and "Son of Man" have been given special significance by the Jews, even though many people were called by this same name as in the Bible. The Jews came to expect a victorious leader. When Jesus did not turn out to be quite what many expected, they hatched the idea that he would return some day and fulfill all these prophecies.

Followers of Jesus

Suppose that someone observed Jesus two-thousand years ago, and he left this planet, or he went to sleep for two-thousand years and returned today to look for the followers of Jesus, who would he find? Who would he recognise? Christians? I conclude with just this food for thought: the Bible says very clearly that Jesus used to fast. Do Christians fast? Muslims fast; it is obligatory one month every year. The Bible says that Jesus prayed by touching his forehead to the ground. Do Christians pray in this manner? Muslims do. It is characteristic of their prayer and no one on earth is probably ignorant of that fact.

According to Jesus, he told his disciples to greet one another with the expression, "Peace be with you." Do the Christians do that? Muslims do, universally, whether they speak Arabic or not. The greeting for one to another is Assalamu'alaikum (peace be with you).

The brother of Jesus in the Book of James, stated that no man should suggest what he is about to do or highlight his plans for the next few days in anyway without adding the phrase "if God wills." Do not say "I will go here and there, do this and that" without adding the phrase "if God wills." Do Christians do that? Muslims do, whether they speak Arabic or not. If they so much as suggest they are going downtown to pick up some groceries, they will add, Insha-Allah, which in Arabic means, "If God wills."

These conclude my thoughts on this subject. May Allah guide us always closer to the truth!

 

[IslamIsLight]

Hi Ann
I think the articles that brother Mhamzah posted are very informative ,please take your time to read ..Its good research .

All the Messengers came with one single message to worship God alone ,but their scriptures has been changed with time ..The difference between earlier Prophets and Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him,is that the previous Prophets and books of revelation were send to different people ,in different time ,but the Prophet Muhammad ,peace be upon him ,was sent as a final Messenger FOR ALL HUMANITY and Quran as a final book ,a criterion ...

The earlier prophets and their books were sent to a particular people in particular periods of history. Once the period ended, a new prophet was sent with a new book to replace the previous book. So, it was not necessary that these books be preserved by Allah. The preservation of the earlier books was left up to the people as a test for them. Thus, when the people went astray, they changed what was written in the books which their prophets brought in order to make allowable the things which were forbidden to them. In that way, all of the earlier books of revelation became either changed or lost.

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was the last prophet whom Allah sent, and he was not sent to a particular people or a particular time. He was sent to all of mankind until the end of the world. Allah said in the Quran,

"I have only sent you (Muhammad) as a giver of glad tidings and a warner to all mankind, but most men do not understand."
[Noble Quran 34:28]


Please leave your prejudice about Islam and Muslims and think and research sincerely ,dont take it as a challenge ,just to prove the Quran is wrong and etc...

take care!!

 

[mhamzah]

All your points are discussed in great details;

1. Point one;

5 Pillars of Islam in Hinduism. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) mentioned in Hindu scriptures, including vedas. In addition vedas has some unscientific info as well for e.g. it says earth is flat and immovable. There are places where it says one can eat pork, other places forbid it. Rig ved, yujar ved and athaea ved all state that God is one, He is formless, other scriptures said that too, yet there are other places in hindu scriptures that all idol and cow worshiping etc, which goes against other passages.

"The sky is immovable, the Earth is immovable and these mountains are also immovable" [Rig Ved Book 10 Hymn 173 verse 4]



2. Point 2:

There is something which Quran offers that other religious text dont offer i.e. the falsification test. Discussed under headings 'challenge' etc. Infact there has never been a claim as to the origin of the Quran, which is not commented upon in the Quran itself.

3. Point 3:

Discussed under the heading challenge, and use and mention of word.


Secondly science relying on histroical data. Apart from scientific knowledge in the Quran, we have Prophecies by Prophet Muahammad (pbuh). Now don't tell me these devils and spirits of yours knew 14 centuries back what would happen in 21st century, as many of these prophecies have just recently been fulfilled.


Examples of the Prophet’s predictions which exist in books of hadeeths

1 ‘Umar reports in a narration recorded in Sahih al-Muslim:

‘Before the Battle of Badr started, God’s Messenger, upon him be peace and blessings, walked around the battlefield and pointed to some locations, saying, Abu Jahl will be killed here, ‘Utba here, Shayba here, Walid here, and so on. By God, we found, after the battle, the dead bodies of all those men in the exact places that God’s Messenger had pointed out.’

While in Makka under great tortures, the Prophet predicted the future victories of Islam

2. Bukhari and Abu Dawud quote Habbab ibn Arat, who said:

Once, during the days of trouble and torture in Makka, I went to God’s Messenger, who was sitting in the shade of the Ka‘ba. I was still a slave in the hands of the Makkans then. They inflicted on me severe tortures. Unable to endure those tortures any more, I requested God’s Messenger to pray to God for help and salvation. But he turned towards me and said:

By God, previous communities had to endure more pitiless tortures. Some of them were made to lie in ditches and cut in two with saws but this did not make them forsake their faith. They were skinned alive but they never became weak against the enemy. Surely God will perfect this religion, but you display undue haste. A day will come when a woman will travel alone by herself from San’a to Hadramawt fearing nothing but wild beasts. However, you show impatience.

Habbab concluded:

By God, what God’s Messenger predicted that day, have all come true. I have personally witnessed it all.

The Messenger predicted ‘Ammar’s martyrdom in a civil war

3. Bukhari, Muslim and Ahmad ibn Hanbal record:

During the construction of the Prophet’s Mosque in Madina, God’s Messenger, upon him be peace and blessings, told ‘Ammar:

What a pity O ‘Ammar, a rebellious group will kill you.

‘Ammar was killed in the Battle of Siffin by the supporters of Mu‘awiya, who rebelled against Caliph ‘Ali.

The Prophet foretold that Fatima would join him first of all after his death

4. Before his death, the Messenger called his daughter Fatima to his bedside and informed her that she would be the first among his family to join him after his death. Fatima joined her father, the pride of mankind, six months later.

The Prophet predicted the Mongol invasion

5. The Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, predicted the Mongol invasion, saying:

The Hour will not come before you fight against a people with red faces, small, slant eyes and flat noses. They wear hairy leather boots.

The Messenger predicted the caliphate of Abu Bakr and ‘Umar

6. As related by Hakim, Tirmidhi, Ibn Hanbal and Ibn Maja, by repeatedly declaring, You should, after my death, follow the way of Abu Bakr and ‘Umar, the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, meant that Abu Bakr and ‘Umar would succeed him as caliphs. He also predicted that Abu Bakr’s reign would be short, whereas ‘Umar would remain longer to be able to make many conquests.

The Prophet predicted the conquest of many important cities

7. According to authentic narrations, the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, gave his community the glad tidings that they would conquer Damascus, Jerusalem, Iraq, Persia, Istanbul (Constantinople) and Cyprus, and that the religion of Islam would reach as far as the remotest corners of the world in the east and west.

The Prophet predicted the forms of government after him

8. The Prophet declared:

This affair began with Prophethood and as a mercy; then it will be mercy and Caliphate; afterwards it will change into a cruel monarchy, and finally into an iniquity and tyranny. He also prophesied: Surely, the Caliphate after me will last thirty years; afterwards it will a cruel monarchy.

Whatever the noble Prophet predicted came true.

The Prophet predicted the caliphate and martyrdom of ‘Uthman

9. According to an authentic narration, the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, declared:

‘Uthman will be killed while reading the Qur’an. God will dress him in a shirt but they will desire to remove it from him.

By this saying, he meant that ‘Uthman would become Caliph but his deposition would be sought, and finally he would be martyred while reading the Qur’an. This happened exactly as he predicted.

The Prophet foretold the future victories of Sa‘d

10. As narrated in a authentic Tradition, the noble Prophet of God, upon him be peace and blessings, said to Sa‘d ibn Abi Waqqas when the latter was gravely ill:

It is hoped that you will be spared so that some people may benefit through you and some others be harmed through you.

By this, he suggested that Sa‘d would be a great commander and make many conquests, and while many peoples would benefit from him by converting to Islam, many others would be harmed through him as a result of the collapse of their states.

Sa‘d, just as predicted by the holy Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, took the command of the Muslim armies and destroyed the Persian Sassanid Empire, bringing many peoples within the guidance of Islam.

The Prophet predicted the conquest of Cyprus

11. Once, when the Prophet woke up in the house of Umm Haram, the aunt of Anas ibn Malik, who served the Messenger for ten years in Madina, he smilingly said:

I dreamt that my community would be waging war in the sea sitting on thrones like kings.

Umm Haram asked: ‘Pray that I too may be with them’. He said firmly: You shall be.

All this came true forty years later when Umm Haram accompanied her husband ‘Ubada ibn Samit, on the conquest of Cyprus. She died there, and her tomb has since been a visited place.

The Prophet predicted the appearance of Mukhtar and Hajjaj

12. According to an authentic narration, the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, declared:

From the tribe of Thaqif will appear a liar who claims Prophethood and a blood-thirsty tyrant.

By this, he gave tidings of the notorious Mukhtar, who claimed Prophethood, and the criminal Hajjaj, who killed tens of thousands of people.

The Prophet predicted the conquest of Istanbul

13. Again, according to an authentic narration, the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, declared:

Surely, Constantinople (Istanbul) will be conquered (by my community); how blessed the commander who will conquer it, and how blessed his army.

He thus foretold the conquest of Istanbul by Muslims, and indicated the high spiritual rank of Sultan Mehmed, the Conqueror, and the virtuousness of his army. What he foretold took place centuries later.

The Prophet mentioned that there would be signs forewarning the approach of the last day.

a. The barefooted bedouins competing in building tall buildings. Today we find in the Arabian Peninsula, the Arabs who used to be impoverished herders of camels and sheep, are competing in building the tallest tower blocks. Two of the latest examples are Kingdom Center in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia and Al Faisaliah Center in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia (see http://skyscraperpage.com/new/kingdomcenter.htm, http://skyscraperpage.com/new/alfaisaliahcenter.htm)

b. The Mosques would be like palaces. This is clearly the case, even though the Prophet ordered simplicity in the houses of Allah, the mosques have become more and more fantastic, with golden domes, marbled floors, lavish carpets and chandeliers. (see http://home.mweb.co.za/ka/kayef/images/masjinabi.jpg)

c. Disappearance of trustworthiness, so much so that one would only be able to say: "I know a trustworthy person in such-and-such town."

d. The increase in killing, so that the one who kills does not know why he killed, and the one killed does not know why he was killed. I was recently sent an article from the Washington Post about the rise of gang warfare. Part of the initiation ceremony was for a new gang member(some times as young as eleven) to shoot someone. The second highest cause of death from fifteen to thirty five in the US are gun related. The massacre of civilians in the Vietnam War by American troops who had little idea why they were there, and the increase of such conflicts, is further illustration of the fulfillment of this prophecy. As are the rise of insane mass murders, of children killing children, such as Jamie Bulger.

e. The increase of the use of riba (usury/interest) so that no one will able to escape being tainted by it. This clearly the state of the world economy today.

f. The enemies of the Muslims dividing the Muslim's wealth and lands between them, the Muslims abandoning jihad, and concerning themselves only with the worldly matters. We have already mentioned this.

g. The increase of literacy.

h. The decrease of religious knowledge due to the disappearance of scholars.

i. The increase of musical instruments, and the Muslims making it lawful even though the Prophet has forbidden them.

j. The increase of sexual promiscuity, and new diseases that people had not herd of before spreading amongst them as a consequence of that. This is clear, with the arrival of AIDS, and other previously unheard of viruses.

k. Appearance of Dajjals (liars), each claiming to be a Messenger of Allah, while Muhammad is the last messenger. There are numerous examples of this, starting with Musailima, who arose in the time of the Prophet, just before his death, to more modern liars such as Elija Muhammad, founder of the Black American racist movement "The Nation of Islam", and India's pretender Gulam Ahmed of Qadian.

l. Nakedness of women while still being dressed and people copulating like donkeys in public. Obviously a direct reference to soft and hard-core *!*!*!*!ography, which has become a dark stain on our society in recent times.

m. The drinking of wine becoming common, and the Muslims making it lawful by calling it another name.

n. Shouting in the mosques and lack of unity.

o. The worst and most ignorant will become leaders and they will be oppressors. Bill Clinton, saddam Hussain and majority of worlds Leaders are prime examples.

p. A man will obey his wife and disobey his mother, and treat his friends kindly and shun his father.

q. Men will wear silk and gold, and the making of it lawful by the Muslims even though the Prophet had forbidden it for the men of his 'Ummah (nation).

r. People will abandon the religion for a small worldly gain, and keeping to the religion will be like holding two hot coals.

 

[mhamzah]

Well, since this is my thread, I will put some thoughts of mine into it. This is my opinion on why Muslims are so desperate to believe that their religion is the one and only true religion, and all non-Muslims are going to Hell.

Lol. you have got it all wrong again. Islam is one and only true religion is explained above. Quran tells us that there are amongst Jews and Christians who believe and that they too will be successful. This point has already been discussed in detail any ways.


The practice of Islam (as distinct from what is actually written in the Koran) seems to put various demands on the practioner, some of which make them miserable and ashamed, and others of which cause them to go out and make others miserable by various means (interfering with their sex lives, putting them into Dhimmitude, etc.)

Hahaha. Don't know where you got this from. 25 years and counting, met Muslims day in and day out, yet to meet one such Muslim.

A Muslim HAS to believe that doing these things is the only possible way to get into heaven. If they do not believe that, then the next conclusion is that they have made themselves miserable pointlessly, and made others miserable out of cruelty. Or as CS Lewis would put it, they have spent their lives doing NEITHER what they ought, NOR what they liked.

Now this is getting interesting. How do you know what Muslims HAS TO (and what they) believe, since you are not a Muslim, or you have arrogated to yourself the right to tell us what we believe. Since the original assumption is false, there is no point in dealing with the rest of the argument.

 

[ShyHijabi]

This is my opinion on why Muslims are so desperate to believe that their religion is the one and only true religion, and all non-Muslims are going to Hell.

Your opinion is based off an untrue "fact." Muslims do not believe all non-Muslims will go to hell and we do not believe Muslims will be saved from the hellfire. It is in Allah's hands who goes where and based off His mercy, which is infinite.

If you believe what CS Lewis wrote about how the devil gets to you, then that must be your scripture. Othersie how do you know what the devil thinks and feels? What basis or text are you basing this on? Furthermore, why do you believe in a devil unless you subscribe to the religions that teach of such a creature?

There is a marked elitism when you speak of what you think Islam says and teaches, as if you grasp of something better. Please enlighten us as to what scripture you've found that you feel is superior to the Quran. Of course this would require you to read the Quran and study it in depth to make a fair comparison. Until then you have compiled an argument lacking in research and knowledge...a straw man argument.

We've presented the information and you've simply mounted flawed arguments against it. You asked for proof and we've provided it. Now the onus of finding the "falsities" or "inaccuracies" in the Quran is your obligation, not ours. Until you can do so you are simply argueing for the perversity of debate, and not even a useful debate.

 

[Asja]

Hello Septihol
There is a loot of time for which we all are trying to explain our beautiful and blessed religion Islaam.SubhanAllah Islam is really perfect,only if you would think more with mind and heart you will understand.Islam is based on Low which is consisting in Holy Quran and Sunnah of our beloved and Last Messanger s.a.w.s.,without it Islam is not right Alhamdulillah.We need to submit to God,His Orders and His will to get reword Inshallah with Allahs great Mercy.And it is not only because of reword.It is because we love Our Lord,Allah Almighty and only that we want is that He be pleased with us,and to save our selves from Hellfire.

Islam Low is not something that Muslims made it by themselfe,it is Holy Allah Low and Words,and we are here onyl to obeay Him SubhanAllah He is.

The most diffuct is to exaplin religion to the persone who does not know how to make diffrence between evil and good,like it is with you Septihol.Maybe if you would try Inshallah to understand what is evil and waht is good than you will maybe understand Islam with Allahs help.

If you are so truth in your own religion than why did you came on Islamic site.I hope it is to learn about Islam Inshallah.I truly hope that Allah will guide you Septihol,and that you will see and meet the light of Islam.Ameen YaAllah.

May Allah subhan we teal guide you and all of.

May Allah reword you my dear sister Aisha for trying to advice lady Sepithol Mashallah,and for for patiente.May Allah reword you sister for so beautiful and noble deed.Ameen.

 

[Musulmanin]

Greetings Septithol,

Reading your post I realize again and again how little you really know about Islam and Muslims.

You're trying hard to come across as intelligent but you constantly show your lack of knowledge of what Islam stands for. You base your opinions and conclusions on media portrayl and sometime misbehaviour of certain members of our huge family. You're trying to portray youself as an open-minded and yet your narrow-pre-formed-based-on-media-babyfeeding view of Islam is so far from reality.

I will probably be a hundredth person to advise you to go and learn about Islam from muslim sources (start from Quran).

Also, don't get me wrong, but why are you here? on this site? to learn about Islam? to 'prove' us wrong? a lack of someone willing to listen to you?

No offense, but I just don't get it. Why would you spend so much time to teach us something you don't even have a knowledge of. (Yes, you don't have knowledge about Islam, whatever you may think you know, believe me from you posts I see that you just don't know).

I don't mean to be disrespectful, just curious.

Also, I think you said you're fourty, in other words you're a fully grown woman. Until I knew that I thought you were a teen. One of the reasons is your silly view on allowing public nudity. But now I see that it was not silly, it was more of a hippy view.

you need to show some maturity and learn about Islam before claiming profound understanding of it. You might not have explicitly claimed so, but from your posts you try to seem as one knowing it all.

I'm glad that there is a thread for you, so maybe now you will not hijack other threads, but I'm sure that was not the reason original poster started this thread. We want you to learn since you keep commenting on something you don't know. Take care.

 

[slaveofAllah88]

Hello sister Anna,
Something i would like to point out to you, the scientific miracles in Quran are found in no other religious scriptures, if you are disapproving them please post the reference to what prove your providing.

Other books have some correct scientific information but alot of wrong information too, its like the person who wrote it didn't know to pick right from wrong whereas Quran is unique cuz as modern technology advances it verifies Quran.

like you said the information could be there by chance then please read this below post of mine where i prove scientifically using the law of probability that its not possible that all this information could be correct


http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=302582&postcount=7

We are here to help. if you need more help
take care

 

[Hard Rock Moslem]

1. There is also scientific information in the Vedic texts of the Hindu religion, which are far older than the Koran
.

The same hindu religion say cow's urine and cow's *!*!*!*! are "holy and divine". My hindu relative use to sprinkle cow's urine given be hindu priest all over the house.

Older not necessarily the best or perfect religion...there is no authentic proof to claim hinduism as the oldest religion in fact the word "hindu" was not given by the hindu. Not only about Islam, you also need more study on hinduism.

Is one who is obedient to Allah, prostrating himself or standing (in prayer) during the hours of the night, fearing the Hereafter and hoping for the Mercy of his Lord (like one who disbelieves)? Say: "Are those who know equal to those who know not?" It is only men of understanding who will remember (i.e. get a lesson from Allah's Signs and Verses) - Qur'an, 39:9.

I've no intention to insult hinduism but the above is a fact, I was a former hindu for 29 years. I tender my apology if anyone was faulted.

 

[BigAk]

Aisha: I agree that the scientific information in the Koran is very interesting, however, it does not constitute proof that Islam is the one and only true religion. I will tell you a few reasons why:

1. There is also scientific information in the Vedic texts of the Hindu religion, which are far older than the Koran.

Saving my ink per my own advice.....

.

 

[BigAk]

2. The fact that scientific information exists in an ancient book does not necessarily mean the information came from a God. There are other possibilities, such as the fact that ancient civilizations may have known more about science than we beleive. Or the information could have come from aliens. Or spirits other than God..

Saving my ink per my own advice.....


Darn it ... that was an excllent post too.... Oh well.... I'll start a new thread.

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[BigAk]

3. The fact that some parts of a book are accurate (in the sense that they contain accurate scientific information) does not constitute proof that ALL of the book is accurate. It is possible for a book to contain mixed truths and lies..

Saving my ink per my own advice.....

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[BigAk]

Now, speaking of CS Lewis, there is a passage in one of his books which relates directly to Big Ak. Big Ak has said that he does not respect women unless they are wearing Hijab..

You are a lier. I demand that you go back to my posts and quote me writing your claim in red above. I have never said such a thing.

As a matter of fact I am married to my wife who DOES NOT wear hijab at all. Now please tell me next that I don't love and respect my dear wife!!! So much for your "accurate" theories and assumptions. LOL

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[Rashadi]

Well, since this is my thread, I will put some thoughts of mine into it. This is my opinion on why Muslims are so desperate to believe that their religion is the one and only true religion, and all non-Muslims are going to Hell. The practice of Islam (as distinct from what is actually written in the Koran) seems to put various demands on the practioner, some of which make them miserable and ashamed, and others of which cause them to go out and make others miserable by various means (interfering with their sex lives, putting them into Dhimmitude, etc.) A Muslim HAS to believe that doing these things is the only possible way to get into heaven. If they do not believe that, then the next conclusion is that they have made themselves miserable pointlessly, and made others miserable out of cruelty. Or as CS Lewis would put it, they have spent their lives doing NEITHER what they ought, NOR what they liked.

Now, speaking of CS Lewis, there is a passage in one of his books which relates directly to Big Ak. Big Ak has said that he does not respect women unless they are wearing Hijab. This is one of the tricks which CS Lewis says the devil likes to play, he likes to make a person's virtue *conditional* on some particular situation. For example, making a person's patience *conditional* on their getting their morning cup of coffee, or having enough cigarettes during the day. Then, whenever it suits the devil to take away that person's virtue, the devil simply sees to it that they do not get their coffee or cigarettes. Or in the case of Muslims, whose respect for women is conditional on their wearing hijab, the devil sees to it that they meet women who are not wearing hijab. As CS Lewis rightly wrote, a conditional virtue is as good for the devil's purposes as no virtue at all, and the devil finds it far more amusing, because someone with a *conditional* virtue, is very often able to convince themselves that they have no problem at all, and their problem is actually the fault of others (such as the vendor who was out of coffee, or the boss who wouldn't give them a smoking break, or the women who do not wear hijab).

The Koran has very good advice as to what one should do if you have a lack of respect for someone based on how they are dressed, which is to lower your gaze. This is very true, and is the responsible thing to do, as you are acknowledging the problem is yours, and are dealing with it. Trying to get everyone else to dress or otherwise behave in a certain way, in order to get around your own problems, is very inappropriate.

Greetings, I know this is only your opinion but it is totally false, absurd and you make no sense at all. You have no understanding of Islam and you argue with your misconceptions and you come off very prejudice. First of all, Muslims are not desperate for nothing as you falsely claim. secondly, we do not say or believe that we are going to heaven and everyone else to hell. This is not Islam and not Muslims. We do not determine who is good to go and who is not. It is Allah(God) who decides who is correct. Not everyone who claims to be a Muslim is really but it is God who will decide who was really Muslim and who was not. Furthermore, we do not believe we are "saved" while others will go to hell. God is just and He will never wrong a person but it is we who wrong ourselves. If the truth is brought to a person and the person rejects it knowingly for whatever reason, that person is at fault and has none to blame. As for being ashamed, we are neither ashamed nor miserable but we do have an obligation to present Islam to others or else we will have failed to convey the message.

We have a purpose here and we are expected todo our part. If I am a Muslim, I have no business fornicating or doing shameful things which goes against Islam. As for what others do, we do have a right to forbid what is wrong and uphold what is correct. In an Islamic society, fornication, shameful tings in the open, drugs, gambling, intrest, etc wouldn't be allowed but we also do not interfere with people's own privacy. What people do in the privacy of their home is their businss and God will bring them to account. Islam only forbids what is harmful and ordains what is good. As for your sill attack against Dhimmi status, if you had any idea of what you're talking about, you would know that it is actually a good thing and non-Muslims were loving it. It be nice if there was such a thing in christianity, Judaism and other religions. If the Christians had a dhimmi system in their religion, there would have been no need to slaughter each other the way they did for centuries. The Catholics, protestants, etc were slaughtering one another while they were both Christians. Under Islam, Jews, Christians of all sects, Hindus, Zorastarians, etc were living in peace, safety, and in prosperity.

There are records and testimonies by Christian historians, not my aunty or cousin but historians who are not even Muslim yet testify of the good treatment of none Muslims as Dhimmis. The Protestants would have loved to have been dhimmis rather than being killed by their own religion. If you knew of dhimmi system, you would know that is was for the saftery protection and good of the non-Muslim. As a Dhimmi, one is entitled to public service, freedom to worship, have one's own leaders, courts, exemption from military service and much more. While Muslim men have to defend the land during time of war, the non-Muslim can sit back and relax. It was because of this that many Dhimmis chose to waive the Jizya and actually serve in the military because they loved the Muslims.

It would have been nice if other religions had such a thing. Islam is the most tolerant faith and it is not like the rest of the religions but it a full and complete way of life. It is the truth revealed to all of the prophets and all mankind began with the same true way but later went astray. Every anciebt community received a prophet or messenger. If there is anything similar in Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism, etc, it is because the truth must be same because there is only one God and He was the true source of all. Islam is not a new religion but it is the original way that mankind started with and Muhammad(saaws) is simply the last prophet. I can see that you have hardly looked into Islam and all your info comes from the wrong sources.

I will make a challenge to you. You claim that other religions claim to be true and others are false; here is my challenge. Bring me a verse from the Bible where it states "Christianity is the true religion". Bring me a verse where it says "Judaism is the truth". Bring me a verse where it states "Hindusm is the truth" and I will be waiting for your evidence. None of the other religions make such claims and you won't even the names of the other religions in their own scriptures. I can already tell you are speaking out of lack of knowledge and I also like to see your examples from the Hindu scriptures about scientific facts.

The problem with some people, as I see you are one also is bigotry and prejudices. You have a certain dislike and you are going based on that. It's funny that you are aware of everything the media tells of Muslims and Islam yet know hardly anything about Islam. Stop watching CNN, with all due respect and start searching truth for yourself.

Forgive me if I said anything offensive and may God guide you, Ameen.