Soup Kitchen Dilemma

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al-fajr

...ism..schism
Staff member
Assalaam walaikum,

I wish I lived in a fantasy world where I did not have to face the prospect of hunger and poverty. Have you ever been to a food bank, where people wait an hour to get a bag of groceries? Have you ever volunteered where the stench of people makes you want to vomit, they have no home. And all you are concerned about is some man may leer at you?

What method: to not feed the poor and hungry?

These are cultural issues.

Besides there is many a sister out there who fends for herself...has it not occurred to many that if a sister is on welfare she has to do community service, she is assigned to work.

I am waiting an answer to this.

What I see is many people who are unaware of the realities of life.

I want some serious responses that are sound.

This oh let the sisters work with sisters and brothers work with brothers is not feasible given the economic realities.

Has it occured to anyone that our sisters who are in prison are searched by male guards..

Anyhow. ce la vie. So much for liberated women.

Please Aapa, don't insult our intelligence. Ofcourse we know that females are searched by male guards and all the rubbish that goes on etc ..but the crux of the matter here is our mindsets. Should we be sitting back and saying 'It happens therefore its ok, lets adjust to the modern day realities and adjust our sensitivity levels' or do we maintain what we can of our Islaamic principles whilst still partaking in day to day life in the 21st century, as and when we can?

Any sister who has no choice but to work in an unsuitable environment and provide for herself then she should attempt to change that job if/when possible and also minimise the evil she's exposed to whilst there. Its not ideal but what can a person do? Make du'aa Allaah improves the situation and He will.

Why shouldn't a sister be concerned about men leering? Ofcourse its an issue for Muslim women, thats one of the differences between a Muslimah and kaafirah. The emotional difficulty of any situation does not decrease the importance of enforcing the limitations Allaah sent for us.

This isn't cultural!

Brings me on to the topic of the thread: Is it compulsory for you (sister ShahnazZ) to put youself in the soup kitchen, is this a matter of survival? If not then theres no reason for you to go out there and allow men to look on you (niqaab or no niqaab, just because your face is covered, doesn't give anyone the licence to look freely).

There are many ways of helping out without compromising your personal comfort zone as a Muslimah, its for you to seek them out.

Wa-salaam
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

I am not questioning anyone's intelligence, whatsoever. However, these simplistic answers are not sufficient. Nothing has been cited from the Quran.

I simply do not get this leering thing. People are interested in Muslims. A polite smile is all that is needed.

So many responses have been subjective, yet none has tackled the real issues.

It is so easy to say get a job that is in a halaal environment. Show me..please..show me.

Has it occurred to anyone that there are Muslims who are homeless and hungry? Muslims with AIDS who are homeless and hungry. Yes, they exist. I have met them.

As Muslims we are not approaching as you say 21st century problems, Islamically.

We have not even reached a point where we can even discuss relevant issues. Yes, we have homeless and hungry Muslim women in the US as well as men; and they go to food pantries.
 

ShahnazZ

Striving2BeAStranger
Bismillah, here I go:

First of all, jazakAllah khair for everyone who responded to this thread. You all made some valid and interesting points, some of which I'll mention:

Sis, can give a simple answer.. istekhara?

Best answer I've heard all day. You actually read my mind. I was thinking this and then *boom* you posted it.

I can completely understand your feelings.. if you feel uncomfortable then it's an awkward situation to put yourself in. However, this feelings could be influenced by shaytaan, to put you off doing a good deed.

Another good point. Use the sister's hayah against her. A plausible concept and one I will ponder. JazakAllah khair.

I am concerned that you have difficulty with these people. They are human beings. The men are not going to grab you.

Well Aapa, here's how it is.

I don't like being ogled at. Some might but I do not. Being in a position where someone can freely ogle me is like a sense of violation to me and I could care less if someone think it makes me wrong.

Frankly, I'm surprised that concern is being displayed at a perfectly normal reaction that any self-respecting woman might have. This isn't a counseling session and I'm not going to go into why I'm so averse to men's leers, but please realize that not everyone likes being reduced to being the object of someone's visual stimulation, irrespective of the deed that is being performed.

What are you fearing? Why do you reduce these men to groveling fools. They are hungry and embarrassed.

It isn't my job to "reduce" someone to something. The impressions that others have of you are dependent upon the way you present yourself. But if reductions are being made then if a something is going to quack like a duck and walk like a duck, I will most likely reduce it to a duck.

I'm not denying the fact that they are hungry and embarassed. They very well may be. But just like them, I'm a human being with my own feelings and thoughts. Yes, it is better to be the bigger person and not let my feelings affect the task I have set out to do but it isn't wrong to be conflicted over doing so.

And the men are grateful..they see a flower of Islam. They will not approach you.

I think this would be applied to the fantasy world that you mentioned in one of your later posts. I've been approached by many men various times for the lewdest of reasons and I'm a walking advertisement for Islam in my area.

I do not have issues with nonsense. If the job needs to be done, I do it.

I am positive this is so cultural. And thus it comes as a shock to me.

These men are not leering. They will not group. Most food pantries are run by religious and well meaning people. These men are homeless and humbled. They have been in the elements and have lost families. They are not looking for easy sex. They are looking for food and shelter, first. They will not bite the hand that feeds them.

After all my time on this forum, I do believe I have grasped a significant understanding of the way you express yourself, Aapa. While some may view it as brash or offensive, it is evident that you basically state things as they are.

And yet, I view this as brash and I am most definitely offended by this.

This is NOT cultural and please do not reduce my sense of hayah to being an aspect of culture. Being born and raised in the west, the disgusting aspects of culture stand out to me like red against black. I do not "do" culture; I fight against it. Anyone who knows me knows that I do not believe in culture as I believe it pollutes moral values and ideals. I am anything BUT cultural and the fact that I have hayah is not an aspect of culture, it is an aspect of trying to please my Lord and that is anything BUT cultural.

I beg your pardon but how do you know the men are not leering and that they will not group? Are you inside their minds? Are you even watching them like I was? Are you in the same vicinity as them? I have read many generalizations made by you just like this regarding KNOWING what people are thinking and perceiving and I find it to be an extreme disadvantage. I recall you mentioning that you have a social worker background and since I'm working with social workers, this is something I constantly see them doing. Reading people like they're books and assuming they know their stories. Every person is different and not everyone will fit the mold that you have created for them. When they react oppositely, you are shocked. The world is not black and white. Shades of gray DO exist.

I wish I lived in a fantasy world where I did not have to face the prospect of hunger and poverty. Have you ever been to a food bank, where people wait an hour to get a bag of groceries? Have you ever volunteered where the stench of people makes you want to vomit, they have no home. And all you are concerned about is some man may leer at you?

For some it is not so easy to stonewall the reactions that offend them. I'm not as "resilient"; there are some for whom it will take a lifetime to get comfortable with this type of behavior.

Bottom line: I'm not dead. I have feelings and reactions and they may not be in accordance with yours but they still exist. Belittling them in the face of what's important isn't really going to help an individual get over their discomfort.

What method: to not feed the poor and hungry?

These are cultural issues.

Not everything that goes against the concept of 21st century feminism is automatically culture.

Besides there is many a sister out there who fends for herself...has it not occurred to many that if a sister is on welfare she has to do community service, she is assigned to work.

I am waiting an answer to this.

What I see is many people who are unaware of the realities of life.

I want some serious responses that are sound.

This oh let the sisters work with sisters and brothers work with brothers is not feasible given the economic realities.

Has it occured to anyone that our sisters who are in prison are searched by male guards..

The realities of life that you mentioned indeed exist and are unquestionably true. Many women are forced to fend for themselves and they cannot be judged. At times, it is definitely unrealistic to expect gender segregation to occur, especially in a society where it is unheard of. I agree that people do need to realize this and not believe that it will still magically happen somehow. What I disagree with you on, is the suggestion of casually tossing one's discomfort aside as if it were insignificant. I respect the philosophy of putting others before yourself and your discomfort. However, I will not sacrifice the Commands of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala to serve His Creation. I lacked in my understanding of His precise Commands and thus, my reason for reaching out to the TTI members. Allah's Commands are sound and logical; it was MY understanding of it that was lacking.

And that's all.

Help out in the organizing and the cooking and planning, but only do the behind-the-scenes work. Please sister, get brothers to serve the men. Where are the brothers? The sisters should be serving the females and the brothers the males. You don't have to continue as how you are now, nor do you have to quit doing a noble deed. Just please find a middle path and get help to assist you in this. There are bound to be guys helping out as well, right? Or maybe set the food up on tables if its possible, and the needy can get what they need.

I was thinking along these lines as well. Prior to serving the food, we have to work in the kitchens to prepare the food. It wouldn't be impossible to avoid the serving shift.

Sisters serving sisters and brothers serving brothers would work if gender segregation were in effect. However, it is not and everyone sits together.

I'll find out if it's possible to preset the tables with the food and let the individuals go for what they want.

The best way would be for Sister Shahnazz to volunteer and help out in planning, cooking, cleaning, whatever it takes. She can ladle the food into bowls and plates, but, in my humble opinion, when she needs to take this food over to the hungry men, she should give the tray to one of the brothers and they take it out to the men. She can do her full share with the women. If the hungry men and women are sitting together, which would be the case, then why cannot Sister Shahnazz have a brother accompany her while she's giving out the food?

I LOVE this idea. Along with us there are others who volunteer as well from different faiths and backgrounds. I came across some really nice Christian individuals and they were very interested in learning about Islam. I'll explain the situation to them and I'll get them to accompany me over to the tables.

Jazakallah khair!
 

Tabassum07

Smile for Allah
I LOVE this idea. Along with us there are others who volunteer as well from different faiths and backgrounds. I came across some really nice Christian individuals and they were very interested in learning about Islam. I'll explain the situation to them and I'll get them to accompany me over to the tables.

Jazakallah khair!

Alhamdulillah, now we're getting somewhere! I'm glad we see a shadow of this ordeal comfortably working out for you now, sister Shahnazz. Tell us how it goes.

And let's please not argue amongst ourselves anymore in this thread.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

I am not trying to offend anyone. I say it like it is.

To this point no-one has cited a ayat from the Quran that states you cannot feed a hungry person.

Its about human dignity.

If the comfort level is not there; do something that is comfortable for you. A heart only reaches what it has asked Allah to reach. But, please do not think the hungry want you. They want food.
 

Tabassum07

Smile for Allah
To this point no-one has cited a ayat from the Quran that states you cannot feed a hungry person.

Oh Aapa, no one has said that because it doesn't exist - of course, why would the Quran say you can't feed hungry people.

However, there are hadiths about the concerns of freemixing. And they are legit concerns.

In Abu Daoud V.4, p.370, Hadith No .5273, it is narrated upon the authority of Nafih that the Messenger Muhammad (saw) said, "Do not walk between two men or between two women in the street."

In Abu Daoud, V.4, Hadith No. 5274, it is narrated upon the authority of Abu Usay Ansari that he heard the Messenger Muhammad (saw) say when he saw people mixing together in the street, "O men and women separate yourselves, it is not allowed for you to be in the same place." Note: It is said that after this women used to walk so close to the side that their Khimar would stick to the walls. In Sahih Muslim, it is narrated that Omar Bin Al Khittab was concerned in relation to the prophet (saw)'s house and an ayah was revealed that segregation from the prophets wives is obligatory [ 33v53].


If the comfort level is not there; do something that is comfortable for you. A heart only reaches what it has asked Allah to reach. But, please do not think the hungry want you. They want food.

I am sorry, but a muslim woman has hayaa. We can not and will not ask Allah that our hearts reach a level where our hayaa vanishes, and we can be like the kafiroon, who don't have a problem with being near men and smiling at them. The above hadiths exist for a reason. And let me please give a practical real-life example. After Hurricane Katrina struck in New Orleans, there were thousands of hungry people - for food, to fill their stomachs they started looting. But at the same time they also committed crimes against women. What is stopping a non-muslim man from doing anything, in fact? There is no rule that says that if a person is hungry, he will automatically turn humble. If that were so, the third world countries where we have the largest number of poor would have zero crime rate. Sadly, the crime rate against women in countries which have a large amount of poor, uneducated people is very very high. And this is fact.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

Who is they? The crimes committed during Katrina were against the poor. Hello? Please explain who they are? Please think about who you are going to identify as the poor who committed crimes?

We are Muslims and can not make the error of identifying with the kuffir's system of identification. ( Brother Jameel, I believe I understand MB)
 

Tabassum07

Smile for Allah
Assalaam walaikum,

Who is they? The crimes committed during Katrina were against the poor. Hello? Please explain who they are? Please think about who you are going to identify as the poor who committed crimes?

We are Muslims and can not make the error of identifying with the kuffir's system of identification. ( Brother Jameel, I believe I understand MB)

"They" are hungry people. I am saying when people are hungry and poor, it does not automatically equate good behavior. In Sister Shahnazz's case (to the point), it does not automatically mean that they will not leer.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,


I know I am ancient. But faith gives us a confidence. I understand many sisters wish to help but feel helpless to help. They wish to remain in totally halaal and safe environments.

But, there are some of us that feel confident and safe everywhere. It is simply a matter of maturity and confidence.

If a sister feels that her presence is going to cause a hungry and homeless man to leer at her..she should not be in that situation.

It is that simple. There is no dilema.

If a homeless and hungry man leered at me I would simply say:

Sir, you must really be hungry because you are hulcinating. Now how about some hot coffee!
 

Tomtom

Banned
:salam2:, I hope you're all in the best state of health and iman.

For those who don't know, I work with young Muslim girls from the ages of 13-20 at a nonprofit agency that works with domestic violence victims in the NYC Muslim community. Since I'm in charge of the youth program, one of our goals is to encourage and promote Muslim youth to work for social justice and perform community service. One of the ways we used to do this was by partnering with Muslims Against Hunger, a North American network of volunteer communities who aim to help the hungry and homeless in our collective backyards by providing hot lunches and dinners to hungry, homeless and poor families and individuals (in my case, New York City). We partner with a local church, where we meet them on Saturdays, help them prepare meals and serve them to the hungry and/or homeless individuals that come.

As Muslims, we've worked side by side with people of other faiths to help feed the hungry. I've come across so many amazing individuals of different faiths and backgrounds who are willing to help contribute to the greater good and it's an amazing feeling to unite and come together in this cause. I also feel that this is a great way to do dawah as the current atmosphere in NYC is suspicious towards Muslims. To see Muslims taking part in such an amazing community effort, in my eyes, not only shows people that we are also productive members of society but that our morals and values uphold the aspect of community service as well as taking care of our neighbors.

However, I'm facing an issue regarding this now.

In the past, while volunteering with them, when it came time to serve the food to the hungry individuals there were times where I felt uncomfortable with the level of proximity I encountered with those that I was serving. Many of the men were leering at me and although they were all polite and respectful, some of them made comments that indicated that they found me attractive. Additionally, the seating is arranged in such a way that the seats are pretty low and crowded together. I felt some discomfort moving between the tables as it would bring me pretty close to the individuals. The women were one thing, but being that close to a strange man to the point where he can easily reach out and...uh.... grab me is pretty unnerving.

Yet I am confused then when I read such statements by Muslims Against Hunger to promote volunteering at the soup kitchens:

"It is an Islamic tradition to feed the poor and needy. Serving at the Soup kitchen gives the Muslim community an opportunity to participate in the "Act of Righteousness" and show the community-at-large the true and compassionate face of the Muslims and Islam."
http://www.muslimsagainsthunger.com/

I'm not sure what to do now. Alhamdulillah, Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala has given me respect in this world, to the point where many of the young Muslim girls that I come across or work with, start to view me as their role model and look up to me to provide the right example of a Muslim woman for them. Although I am grateful to be considered such, this can be an enormous burden on me. I have to constantly check myself to make sure I'm not doing anything that contradicts Allah's Commands because I know these girls are always watching me. I don't ever want to misguide them in any way or teach them to do something that goes against Islamic values.

When my mother found out that we were planning on visiting the soup kitchen again, although she appreciated the gesture, she questioned whether I was doing the right thing by taking young girls into an area where they would be "studied" and scrutinized by non-Muslim men. Although there are women present, there are some men are not discreet about their appreciation of women. I don't want the girls with me to be uncomfortable nor do I want them to be subjected to this type of scrutiny where they're the objects of someone else's eye.

I have still felt an immense sense of reward at having contributed to serving the less fortunate and when helping to serve these individuals, I have been pleased to see that many of them responded so positively and appreciatively to having a Muslim group serve them. We definitely swayed hearts and minds and the Muslim teenagers that have participated enjoyed the experience. They also learned how to contribute to their communities as well as the enormous sense of satisfaction one experiences when giving back to those less fortunate.

Bottom line: Do I sacrifice all for the greater good? Or do I have to limit contributing to the greater good because of my discomfort and the possibility that I may be instilling the wrong behavior in the youth that look up to me, thus taking the responsibility of their behavior on my shoulders?

May be it's wishful thinking on your part. May be the hungry individuals are so grateful for the food that they are receiving that they are looking at you with grateful eyes, and I can't see a starving person having sexual thoughts when food is his number one priority. A little humility and the love for your fellow human being whatever his beliefs may well go a long way too. A sincere and honest person would not have the thoughts you are having, humility, humility humility.
 

ShahnazZ

Striving2BeAStranger
:salam2:,

Brothers and sisters, you do realize that this thread is over a year old right? I've noticed alot of old threads being resurrected lately and I feel the responses to them are irrelevant due to the fact that so much could have happened between the time the posts were written to the point where you resurrected it.

Therefore, please look at the date of threads before responding to them.

As a result, judgmental and arrogant responses like the sick and twisted one below are pretty much irrelevant.

May be it's wishful thinking on your part. May be the hungry individuals are so grateful for the food that they are receiving that they are looking at you with grateful eyes, and I can't see a starving person having sexual thoughts when food is his number one priority. A little humility and the love for your fellow human being whatever his beliefs may well go a long way too. A sincere and honest person would not have the thoughts you are having, humility, humility humility.
 

Asja

Pearl of Islaam
May be it's wishful thinking on your part. May be the hungry individuals are so grateful for the food that they are receiving that they are looking at you with grateful eyes, and I can't see a starving person having sexual thoughts when food is his number one priority. A little humility and the love for your fellow human being whatever his beliefs may well go a long way too. A sincere and honest person would not have the thoughts you are having, humility, humility humility.

Assalamu allaicum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu

I am sorry but I need to say this. The only words and thoughts that are shameless here are yours brother. I do not understand how can you even say and think like that about your Muslim sister or any other Muslim sister in Islam.

Sister said the truth Alhamdulillah, because things like this are happening and both Muslim and non Muslim man should learn to lower their gaze. Also it is very sad and insolting that one Muslim brother can accuse his own Muslim sister Astagfirurullah without knowing what really happend.

Please brother be very carefull in future InshAllah on the way you talk about your sister in Islam.

May Allah guide us all. Ameen ya Rabb.

:wasalam:
 

Tomtom

Banned
:salam2:,

Brothers and sisters, you do realize that this thread is over a year old right? I've noticed alot of old threads being resurrected lately and I feel the responses to them are irrelevant due to the fact that so much could have happened between the time the posts were written to the point where you resurrected it.

Therefore, please look at the date of threads before responding to them.

As a result, judgmental and arrogant responses like the sick and twisted one below are pretty much irrelevant.

It was just an honest appraisal of the evidence from the case presented. If one does not need criticism in a public forum then may be they should refrain from posting such information. I'd like to talk straight from the gun holster, I'm sorry if I came across as a sob as I sometimes do.

With regard to my aqeedah only Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala can judge me on that and sure enough I will know about it on the Day of Judgement.
 

ShahnazZ

Striving2BeAStranger
Assalamu allaicum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu

I am sorry but I need to say this. The only words and thoughts that are shameless here are yours brother. I do not understand how can you even say and think like that about your Muslim sister or any other Muslim sister in Islam.

Sister said the truth Alhamdulillah, because things like this are happening and both Muslim and non Muslim man should learn to lower their gaze. Also it is very sad and insolting that one Muslim brother can accuse his own Muslim sister Astagfirurullah without knowing what really happend.

Please brother be very carefull in future InshAllah on the way you talk about your sister in Islam.

May Allah guide us all. Ameen ya Rabb.

:wasalam:

JazakAllah khair for your post, Ukhti. I appreciate every single word you said and it truly saddens me to see what has become of Muslim men these days. More and more, I see brothers on this forum slandering their sisters in Islam in such a despicable manner and I wonder where the Taqwa in such individuals has gone.
 

lovefordeen

Junior Member
assalaam alaikum

tom tom,considering that you are a recent revert,i felt that we needed to be patient in dealing with certain arguments you have regarding religion,but that gives you no right to judge sister shahnaz...

you say Allah is your judge,so the same way He is sister shahnaz's judge...hope you understand that in sha Allah...


'A sincere and honest person would not have the thoughts you are having, humility, humility humility'.


how could you ever say something like this???how dare you judge her this way...

and i don't want to discuss regarding this with you anymore in sha Allah....case closed....
 
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