Soup Kitchen Dilemma

Discussion in 'Islamic Discussion' started by ShahnazZ, Mar 24, 2011.

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  1. al-fajr
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    al-fajr ...ism..schism Staff Member

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    Please Aapa, don't insult our intelligence. Ofcourse we know that females are searched by male guards and all the rubbish that goes on etc ..but the crux of the matter here is our mindsets. Should we be sitting back and saying 'It happens therefore its ok, lets adjust to the modern day realities and adjust our sensitivity levels' or do we maintain what we can of our Islaamic principles whilst still partaking in day to day life in the 21st century, as and when we can?

    Any sister who has no choice but to work in an unsuitable environment and provide for herself then she should attempt to change that job if/when possible and also minimise the evil she's exposed to whilst there. Its not ideal but what can a person do? Make du'aa Allaah improves the situation and He will.

    Why shouldn't a sister be concerned about men leering? Ofcourse its an issue for Muslim women, thats one of the differences between a Muslimah and kaafirah. The emotional difficulty of any situation does not decrease the importance of enforcing the limitations Allaah sent for us.

    This isn't cultural!

    Brings me on to the topic of the thread: Is it compulsory for you (sister ShahnazZ) to put youself in the soup kitchen, is this a matter of survival? If not then theres no reason for you to go out there and allow men to look on you (niqaab or no niqaab, just because your face is covered, doesn't give anyone the licence to look freely).

    There are many ways of helping out without compromising your personal comfort zone as a Muslimah, its for you to seek them out.

    Wa-salaam
  2. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam walaikum,

    I am not questioning anyone's intelligence, whatsoever. However, these simplistic answers are not sufficient. Nothing has been cited from the Quran.

    I simply do not get this leering thing. People are interested in Muslims. A polite smile is all that is needed.

    So many responses have been subjective, yet none has tackled the real issues.

    It is so easy to say get a job that is in a halaal environment. Show me..please..show me.

    Has it occurred to anyone that there are Muslims who are homeless and hungry? Muslims with AIDS who are homeless and hungry. Yes, they exist. I have met them.

    As Muslims we are not approaching as you say 21st century problems, Islamically.

    We have not even reached a point where we can even discuss relevant issues. Yes, we have homeless and hungry Muslim women in the US as well as men; and they go to food pantries.
  3. ShahnazZ
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    ShahnazZ Striving2BeAStranger

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    Bismillah, here I go:

    First of all, jazakAllah khair for everyone who responded to this thread. You all made some valid and interesting points, some of which I'll mention:

    Best answer I've heard all day. You actually read my mind. I was thinking this and then *boom* you posted it.

    Another good point. Use the sister's hayah against her. A plausible concept and one I will ponder. JazakAllah khair.

    Well Aapa, here's how it is.

    I don't like being ogled at. Some might but I do not. Being in a position where someone can freely ogle me is like a sense of violation to me and I could care less if someone think it makes me wrong.

    Frankly, I'm surprised that concern is being displayed at a perfectly normal reaction that any self-respecting woman might have. This isn't a counseling session and I'm not going to go into why I'm so averse to men's leers, but please realize that not everyone likes being reduced to being the object of someone's visual stimulation, irrespective of the deed that is being performed.

    It isn't my job to "reduce" someone to something. The impressions that others have of you are dependent upon the way you present yourself. But if reductions are being made then if a something is going to quack like a duck and walk like a duck, I will most likely reduce it to a duck.

    I'm not denying the fact that they are hungry and embarassed. They very well may be. But just like them, I'm a human being with my own feelings and thoughts. Yes, it is better to be the bigger person and not let my feelings affect the task I have set out to do but it isn't wrong to be conflicted over doing so.

    I think this would be applied to the fantasy world that you mentioned in one of your later posts. I've been approached by many men various times for the lewdest of reasons and I'm a walking advertisement for Islam in my area.

    After all my time on this forum, I do believe I have grasped a significant understanding of the way you express yourself, Aapa. While some may view it as brash or offensive, it is evident that you basically state things as they are.

    And yet, I view this as brash and I am most definitely offended by this.

    This is NOT cultural and please do not reduce my sense of hayah to being an aspect of culture. Being born and raised in the west, the disgusting aspects of culture stand out to me like red against black. I do not "do" culture; I fight against it. Anyone who knows me knows that I do not believe in culture as I believe it pollutes moral values and ideals. I am anything BUT cultural and the fact that I have hayah is not an aspect of culture, it is an aspect of trying to please my Lord and that is anything BUT cultural.

    I beg your pardon but how do you know the men are not leering and that they will not group? Are you inside their minds? Are you even watching them like I was? Are you in the same vicinity as them? I have read many generalizations made by you just like this regarding KNOWING what people are thinking and perceiving and I find it to be an extreme disadvantage. I recall you mentioning that you have a social worker background and since I'm working with social workers, this is something I constantly see them doing. Reading people like they're books and assuming they know their stories. Every person is different and not everyone will fit the mold that you have created for them. When they react oppositely, you are shocked. The world is not black and white. Shades of gray DO exist.

    For some it is not so easy to stonewall the reactions that offend them. I'm not as "resilient"; there are some for whom it will take a lifetime to get comfortable with this type of behavior.

    Bottom line: I'm not dead. I have feelings and reactions and they may not be in accordance with yours but they still exist. Belittling them in the face of what's important isn't really going to help an individual get over their discomfort.

    Not everything that goes against the concept of 21st century feminism is automatically culture.

    The realities of life that you mentioned indeed exist and are unquestionably true. Many women are forced to fend for themselves and they cannot be judged. At times, it is definitely unrealistic to expect gender segregation to occur, especially in a society where it is unheard of. I agree that people do need to realize this and not believe that it will still magically happen somehow. What I disagree with you on, is the suggestion of casually tossing one's discomfort aside as if it were insignificant. I respect the philosophy of putting others before yourself and your discomfort. However, I will not sacrifice the Commands of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala to serve His Creation. I lacked in my understanding of His precise Commands and thus, my reason for reaching out to the TTI members. Allah's Commands are sound and logical; it was MY understanding of it that was lacking.

    And that's all.

    I was thinking along these lines as well. Prior to serving the food, we have to work in the kitchens to prepare the food. It wouldn't be impossible to avoid the serving shift.

    Sisters serving sisters and brothers serving brothers would work if gender segregation were in effect. However, it is not and everyone sits together.

    I'll find out if it's possible to preset the tables with the food and let the individuals go for what they want.

    I LOVE this idea. Along with us there are others who volunteer as well from different faiths and backgrounds. I came across some really nice Christian individuals and they were very interested in learning about Islam. I'll explain the situation to them and I'll get them to accompany me over to the tables.

    Jazakallah khair!
  4. Tabassum07
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    Tabassum07 Smile for Allah

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    Alhamdulillah, now we're getting somewhere! I'm glad we see a shadow of this ordeal comfortably working out for you now, sister Shahnazz. Tell us how it goes.

    And let's please not argue amongst ourselves anymore in this thread.
  5. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam walaikum,

    I am not trying to offend anyone. I say it like it is.

    To this point no-one has cited a ayat from the Quran that states you cannot feed a hungry person.

    Its about human dignity.

    If the comfort level is not there; do something that is comfortable for you. A heart only reaches what it has asked Allah to reach. But, please do not think the hungry want you. They want food.
  6. Tabassum07
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    Tabassum07 Smile for Allah

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    Oh Aapa, no one has said that because it doesn't exist - of course, why would the Quran say you can't feed hungry people.

    However, there are hadiths about the concerns of freemixing. And they are legit concerns.


    I am sorry, but a muslim woman has hayaa. We can not and will not ask Allah that our hearts reach a level where our hayaa vanishes, and we can be like the kafiroon, who don't have a problem with being near men and smiling at them. The above hadiths exist for a reason. And let me please give a practical real-life example. After Hurricane Katrina struck in New Orleans, there were thousands of hungry people - for food, to fill their stomachs they started looting. But at the same time they also committed crimes against women. What is stopping a non-muslim man from doing anything, in fact? There is no rule that says that if a person is hungry, he will automatically turn humble. If that were so, the third world countries where we have the largest number of poor would have zero crime rate. Sadly, the crime rate against women in countries which have a large amount of poor, uneducated people is very very high. And this is fact.
  7. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam walaikum,

    Who is they? The crimes committed during Katrina were against the poor. Hello? Please explain who they are? Please think about who you are going to identify as the poor who committed crimes?

    We are Muslims and can not make the error of identifying with the kuffir's system of identification. ( Brother Jameel, I believe I understand MB)
  8. Tabassum07
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    Tabassum07 Smile for Allah

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    "They" are hungry people. I am saying when people are hungry and poor, it does not automatically equate good behavior. In Sister Shahnazz's case (to the point), it does not automatically mean that they will not leer.
  9. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam walaikum,


    I know I am ancient. But faith gives us a confidence. I understand many sisters wish to help but feel helpless to help. They wish to remain in totally halaal and safe environments.

    But, there are some of us that feel confident and safe everywhere. It is simply a matter of maturity and confidence.

    If a sister feels that her presence is going to cause a hungry and homeless man to leer at her..she should not be in that situation.

    It is that simple. There is no dilema.

    If a homeless and hungry man leered at me I would simply say:

    Sir, you must really be hungry because you are hulcinating. Now how about some hot coffee!
  10. Tomtom
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    Tomtom Banned

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    May be it's wishful thinking on your part. May be the hungry individuals are so grateful for the food that they are receiving that they are looking at you with grateful eyes, and I can't see a starving person having sexual thoughts when food is his number one priority. A little humility and the love for your fellow human being whatever his beliefs may well go a long way too. A sincere and honest person would not have the thoughts you are having, humility, humility humility.
  11. ShahnazZ
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    ShahnazZ Striving2BeAStranger

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    :salam2:,

    Brothers and sisters, you do realize that this thread is over a year old right? I've noticed alot of old threads being resurrected lately and I feel the responses to them are irrelevant due to the fact that so much could have happened between the time the posts were written to the point where you resurrected it.

    Therefore, please look at the date of threads before responding to them.

    As a result, judgmental and arrogant responses like the sick and twisted one below are pretty much irrelevant.

  12. Asja
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    Asja Pearl of Islaam

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    Assalamu allaicum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu

    I am sorry but I need to say this. The only words and thoughts that are shameless here are yours brother. I do not understand how can you even say and think like that about your Muslim sister or any other Muslim sister in Islam.

    Sister said the truth Alhamdulillah, because things like this are happening and both Muslim and non Muslim man should learn to lower their gaze. Also it is very sad and insolting that one Muslim brother can accuse his own Muslim sister Astagfirurullah without knowing what really happend.

    Please brother be very carefull in future InshAllah on the way you talk about your sister in Islam.

    May Allah guide us all. Ameen ya Rabb.

    :wasalam:
  13. Tomtom
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    Tomtom Banned

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    It was just an honest appraisal of the evidence from the case presented. If one does not need criticism in a public forum then may be they should refrain from posting such information. I'd like to talk straight from the gun holster, I'm sorry if I came across as a sob as I sometimes do.

    With regard to my aqeedah only Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala can judge me on that and sure enough I will know about it on the Day of Judgement.
  14. ShahnazZ
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    ShahnazZ Striving2BeAStranger

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    JazakAllah khair for your post, Ukhti. I appreciate every single word you said and it truly saddens me to see what has become of Muslim men these days. More and more, I see brothers on this forum slandering their sisters in Islam in such a despicable manner and I wonder where the Taqwa in such individuals has gone.
  15. Tomtom
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    Tomtom Banned

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    humilty, humility and more humilty sister.
  16. Kakorot
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    Kakorot Junior Member

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    Have some yourself.
  17. Tomtom
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    Tomtom Banned

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    I get the feeling you don't like me. lollollol
  18. Idris16
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    Idris16 Junior Member

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    Hehe. All of you calm down. Tomtom was giving his opinion. People tell me that I always smile. Why cant we be happy?

    @Tomtom, be wise akhi!! I just saw your comments in my thread.

    I hope I am not among those Muslim men. See this post:

    http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=512610&postcount=6
  19. lovefordeen
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    lovefordeen Junior Member

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    assalaam alaikum

    tom tom,considering that you are a recent revert,i felt that we needed to be patient in dealing with certain arguments you have regarding religion,but that gives you no right to judge sister shahnaz...

    you say Allah is your judge,so the same way He is sister shahnaz's judge...hope you understand that in sha Allah...


    'A sincere and honest person would not have the thoughts you are having, humility, humility humility'.


    how could you ever say something like this???how dare you judge her this way...

    and i don't want to discuss regarding this with you anymore in sha Allah....case closed....
  20. Tomtom
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    Ok why don't everybody else jump on the bandwagon?
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