Attributing earthquakes, rain, lightening, thunder, Tsunami to "nature" is Kufr!

[a_stranger]

Bismillaah Al-Hamdulillaah wa salatu wa salaamu 'ala rasulullaah

Shaikh Muqbil: Attributing earthquakes, rain, lightening, thunder, Tsunami to "nature" is Kufr!

Five years ago, student of knowledge Abul Hasan Malik Aadam Al-Akhdar (hafidhahullaah) gave a class at Masjid Rahmah, reading to the attendees from a highly beneficial book Asbaabu Zilzaal (The Reasons for Earthquakes) written by Shaikh Muqbil Ibn Haadee Al-Waadi'ee (rahimahullaah).

In light of the recent earthquake that Allaah sent to the island of Haiti, inshaAllaah there is benefit in reading the following scholarly advice:

quote:
So as for the one who tries to ascribe these matters to the nature, and he calls them 'natural disasters'...if he intends by this that the nature itself is that which is causing these matters, then he is a Kaafir, a disbeliever.
In a hadeeth Qudsi, the Prophet (sallaahu 'alayhi wa salaam) said: He (Allaah) said: "This morning one of my slaves became a believer in Me and one a disbeliever. As for him who said: 'We have been given rain by virtue of Allaah and His mercy,' that one is a believer in Me, a disbeliever in the stars; and as for him who said: 'We have been given rain by such-and-such a star,' that one is a disbeliever in Me, a believer in the stars.'"

So Allaah has clarified here that the one who ascribes these matters - whether it be rain, lightening, thunder, the Tsunami, whatever it may be - if he attributes that to the creation, then he has disbelieved in Allaah.

If a person says, for example, in describing an earthquake that the earth begins to do this and they begin to explain the actual way that the thing takes place, then this is a scientific explanation, but we understand that it is Allaah Who caused all of that to take place. That it is all from the Might of Allaah. So he does no ascribe that matter to the nature itself.



Here is another daleel from Abul Hasan Malik's lecture, in which he read from the book of Shaikh Muqbil (rahimahullaah) Asbaabu Zilzaal (The Reasons for Earthquakes).

quote:
Because your Lord has inspired it. (Az-Zalzalah 99:5) Ibn Kathir (rahimahullaah) mentions with regards to this meaning, that the inspiration here is that Allaah commanded the earth to shake; that it is Allaah Who commanded the earth to move.
And this is a refutation - as Shaykh Muqbil will get into - against those who attribute these calamities to the nature. They call them "natural disasters." And as we will see from the speech of Shaykh Muqbil: If one actually says this believing that it is the earth or the nature itself that causes this matter, then he is a kaafir, disbeliever. He disbelieved that it is Allaah Who has caused this matter and caused this affair to take place with His infinite Wisdom.



Source : http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=8&Topic=10383

 

[Al-Indunisiy]

:salam2:

But then what about science, whose premise is of empiricism and materialism?

Anyway, I think the sheikh is anthropomorphisizing 'nature' as an entity rather than an abstract concept describing the phenomena of the sensable world.

 

[JenGiove]

Salaam,

I have to agree about what Al-Indunisiy said about the Sheikh. Yes, in the long run, it is Creator's work because he set the Earth in motion at it's beginning, but in order for this world to continue to have the ability to sustain us, it has to "breath" and "pulse".

The land masses float on melted rock and when two tectonic plates meet, they either push together and fold upwards, creating mountains, one folds under the other or they rub against each other. THIS action causes the earthquacks. When it happens under water, you get Tsunami's. Imagine what it would be like if you threw a rock into the water, from below the water. As the "ripple" comes closer to shore, the shallow water causes the wave to raise up. the bigger the quack, the bigger the wave. As for thunder/lightning and rain....

To create fog (clouds that form at ground level):
1) Fill up the jar or bottle completely with very hot water and let it stay there for about 60 seconds.

2) Pour out all but about an inch of the hot water.

3) Put a strainer or bag over the top of the jar.

4) Place ice cubes in the strainer or plastic bag.

5) Fog will form as the hot water vapor from the bottom of the bottle contacts the cold air created by the ice cubes and begins condensation.

http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Fog-in-a-Bottle

Rain happens when the water saturates the cloud mass to the breaking point. You can see this same effect by wetting a towel....at some point, the towel will no longer be able to hold the water and it starts to "rain"...

"Lightning is produced in thunderstorms when liquid and ice particles above the freezing level collide, and build up large electrical fields in the clouds. Once these electric fields become large enough, a giant "spark" occurs between them, like static electricity, reducing the charge separation. The lightning spark can occur between clouds, between the cloud and air, or between the cloud and ground. As in the photo above, cloud-to-ground lightning usually occurs near the boundary between the updraft region (where the darkest) clouds are, and the downdraft/raining region (with the lighter, fuzzy appearance). Sometimes, however, the lightning bolt can come out of the side of the storm, and strike a location miles away, seemingly coming out of the clear blue sky. As long as a thunderstorm continues to produce lightning, you know that the storm still has active updrafts and is still producing precipitation. The temperature inside a lightning bolt can reach 50,000 degrees F, hotter than the surface of the sun. Objects that are struck by lightning can catch on fire, or show little or no evidence of burning at all. "
http://www.weatherquestions.com/What_causes_lightning.htm

Does this mean that God did not have "his hand in the sugar bowl"? NO! But just like there are certain things in the human body that you have no control over (autonomic systems), so does the earth. That's my thinking anyways....

 

[MohammedMaksudul]

:salam2:

SubhanAllah, just a few words. I don't think this needs much explanation. The basis of every creation is matter and energy. Now whatever may the cause of all these processes be, but with out matter and energy nothing is there. Since, Allah Sub'hana Wa Ta'ala is the Creator of this matter and energy, there is no doubt that nature by itself has no power to do anything. Science is not beyond the domain of the creation of Allah Sub'hana Wa Ta'ala, all the Laws that humans have discovered and are discovering are actually discoveries and not creations. So no matter how much humans try to explain science by empiricism and materialism only, it will never be successful in deriving to a satisfying answer. At one point or the other, science has to refer things back to the Supreme Power, The Creator.

 

[Abu Talib]

:salam2:


The Shaykh has said it right. SubhanAllaah the Qur'an speaks itself for such earthquakes ..etc
EARTHQUAKES IN THE GLORIOUS QUR'AN

Quran on Formation of Clouds and Rain

 

[MohammedMaksudul]

:salam2:

JazakAllahu Khair for sharing, brother Abu Talib.

 

[BrotherInIslam7]

Salaamalaykum waa rahmatullahi..

As a response to some posts above,

No one is doubting the scientific mechanisms that are behind natural phenomenons such as earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunamis etc. It is from the mercy of Almighty Allah that we are able to study and understand them and advance in fields of geophysics and other fields of science.

However, the 'cause' of such phenomenon is not due to 'complete randomness' or 'chance'(as mentioned in most secular studies). Natural disasters are indeed from Allah Almighty, who warns mankind to be in remembrance of Him and not transgress the laws that he has ordained us to live by.

When we hear of natural disasters, we should beg of Allah to forgive our evil transgression and ask Him to guide us in changing our conditions. When mankind busies themselves with this worldly life, making themselves oblivious of Allah's right to be worshiped according to the religion revealed to Prophet Muhammad SallAllahu Alleihi Wa Sallam, then we are reminded of the might of Allah azz zawajal and of our helplessness as mere humans.

I hope this clears the matter.

Wasalaamalaykum waa rahmatullahi

 

[Ibn Uthaymin]

I have to agree about what Al-Indunisiy said about the Sheikh. Yes, in the long run, it is Creator's work because he set the Earth in motion at it's beginning, but in order for this world to continue to have the ability to sustain us, it has to "breath" and "pulse".

I agree with you and Indunisy

 

[arzafar]

sheikh i right!

Materialism is definitely false. And although idealism may well be wrong, empiricism is just a perception of the truth!

Science is basically modelling and simulating observed physical, chemical and biological phenomena. The model improves as observation improves and even though it may simulate observed behavior accurately, it doesn't mean that the model itself is reality or even true. No the model remains just a perception of reality until we can have infinite many infinitely accurate observations about the particular behavior. That is why there are many scientific theories attempting to model the same phenomena. They are all accurate for a certain range of parametric values but NONE of them can be used as a substitute for reality!

now i have studied geophysics and have to say that it's on the most ridiculous engineering subject i encountered. There is still no theory that can predict when or how big an earthquake may occur. they only point out areas of high activity. this can be done without theorizing. all you have to do is to build a frequency table of location and number of earthquakes in say last 100 years. that table alone will tell you which places are in the zone and which one are not you dont really have to build a model.

for me at least such an incomplete theory as the plate tectonics which doesn't even make predictions is fairly useless. I know there will be more earthquakes in Indonesia than in Europe from my frequency table. I also know that i will die someday. What's so scientific in there.

 

[Al-Indunisiy]

:salam2:

Bravo, brother arzafar!

At one point or the other, science has to refer things back to the Supreme Power, The Creator.

No, modern science should always be secular, empirical, and materialistic because they are it's underlying philosophical assumptions. (see: Part1:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_QrTEmFur4 Part2:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sldwyS6W65k&feature=related, Caveat: there is a little bit of music)

And that is why since a year ago I try to split my weltanschauung into that of a religious one and a scientific one. I can't currently afford to have a unified worldview.

 

[a_stranger]

:salam2:

I think those who attributes those phenomenons to nature should decide for themselves what nature is ? how does it do this work ? for a muslem when he arrributes those phenomenons to Allah sobhanahu wa taala he has a very clear idea who Allah is sobhanahu wa taala :

اللَّهُ خَالِقُ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ وَهُوَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ وَكِيلٌ

39:62 Allah is the Creator of all things, and He is the Guardian and Disposer of all affairs.

بَدِيعُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ أَنَّى يَكُونُ لَهُ وَلَدٌ وَلَمْ تَكُن لَّهُ صَاحِبَةٌ وَخَلَقَ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ وهُوَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ

6:101 To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: How can He have a son when He hath no consort? He created all things, and He hath full knowledge of all things.

Allah created things and is moving everything following laws he most Glorified put .......

Some times people just repeat words without thinking about what does it realy means ....some words are misleading need a second thought.

 

[arzafar]

as i said, science doesn't prove anything. There no facts in science apart from the observational data itself. It's difficult to explain because there are a lot of misconceptions around science. people have come to believe that science the absolute truth. well it's not! but because it models simulate natural phenomena we can make prediction from them and therefore apply it in our daily lives.

I mean do you really believe that things are made up of tiny spherical balls called atoms which contain even smaller spherical balls called neutrons, electrons and protons! If so then you need to read the actual papers that present these theories. these are all models and there are many such models! In fact saying that mater consists of atoms is also a theory!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_theory

yes it's backed up by evidence but it has had many revisions and will continue to undergo revisions in the future as new observations come along!

i dont know what has happened to scientists nowadays but if you read the authentic work of 19th and early 20th century scientists they accept the fact that the model is just a model! people like Einstein, Maxwell, Planck, Rutherford, Faraday, Bohr etc were the real deal. Nowadays research is privately funded so a church funded group will come with a different take on evolution whereas some atheist society would come up with a complete opposite take. Muslims obviously haven't done much research since 1300 AD. So there is a lot of information nowadays but the truth is obscured somewhere.

Moreover, science has nothing to do with God. Science is man's creation it can neither prove or disprove God. it can only give us an explanation of observed phenomena which has better odds of making accurate predictions then say tossing a coin. so that when we see clouds on the sky we dont toss a coin to predict whether it will rain or not, instead we check the weather report! But that doesn't make the weather model or physics behind that model reality, it remains a perception of reality!

So i believe that science should be secular.

 

[hamdulliah]

salam id like to comment on this. i look at all these conspicery theroes being made ive heard Haarp is being used to destroy earth. dajjal has many sects as sects freemasons illuminti and more so . just and example test tube babys are born how? cloning is done how? plastic surgery is also done by enhncing the body. so i believe can be changed for the worst for evil reasons but of coarse its all done with allahs will i dnt wanna fall into kufir may allah forgive me im seeking knowledge and answers

 

[hamdulliah]

plzzz answer

 

[hayat84]

:salam2:
but Allah is Who created the Nature.so it's pretty normal to match the earthquake to a natural event and by consequence to Allah.I can't understand where is the mistake in attributng such natural events to something that has been created by Allah.I also heard that sometimes earthquakes were generated trough phisycal experiments by throwing some big bombs in the ocean or into some desert lands.
and what I've read about the "chimic stripes"?they say(I don't know if it's true)that the jets which fly into the sky release a white stripe in it(I alway thought that it was frozen air)to modificate the weather.I also read that when the Dajjal will come,it will be the ruin of the world;it will command the rain to come and it will come,without the help of Allah!is it an eresy?maybe we're going to face to a new reality and the real disbeliever will follow shaytan and forget Allah.:astag:

 

[justoneofmillion]

:salam2::salam2:

Deine weltanschauung ist falsch mein freund!Secularized science has brought us the Atom bomb,Eugenics, abortion,paper money and electronic money transfers which are enslaving the world through Ribaa..etc. All the other benefits it brought since the "Age of enlightenment" were due to it's break up from a certain historical and restrictive religious context specific to the European experience.Are these the philosophical assumptions you are referring to,a result of a universal frame of reference?.It is quite disturbing to see this Neocolonial thought being exported and unconsciously absorbed by the masses.That would be satisfying If you are at ease with the status quo of a world with 800 million people going to bed hungry every night,but if you want to change it for the better,you may have to purpose an alternative frame work ,it would be healthier to rethink your position,That alternative frame work consists exactly in coming back to a healthy understanding of the sources.inshallah.

The scholar is right listen to what Allah swt says with understanding and do not get to much into fluffy ideologies and pseudo scientific theories,even if one doesn't doubt your good intention.

You have to keep in mind also,that we happened to be among the first generations of human beings who have the power to completely annihilate themselves.

Those who think the scholar is wrong have not understood their history and it's downfall .Had Science being secularized Muslims would have never thought of providing every house in Andalusia with running water as a result of a necessity to practice their religion, while the rest of Europe was literally walking in dirt, living among pigs and showering once in a blue moon.

Even worse those who say the scholar is wrong on this issue have not understood the pedagogy of the Quraan and the Sunnah as to it's ethical approach towards nature and contribute to the perpetuate the marginalization of the futur scholars of this Ummah.

We need ethics and religious awareness in Science more than ever.As some dude with a long insolent hanging tongue once said""Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."

I give you one verse to think about inshallah and a very interesting article read it through.

Am not arguing , I don't have time for that.You can argue with one another afterwards if you wish.May Allah swt bless you All.

" And the stars and the trees both prostrate" Surah Ar Rahmaan (55.6.)

Dr Hossein Nassr
Islam and modern science.

http://msa.mit.edu/archives/nasrspeech1.html

Wassalamu Alikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu.

 

[hayat84]

:salam2:
@bro Justoneofmillion,your words were "sharp"like a knife,for an open minded like me.you're right,everything comes from Allah.but I didn't intend to say something false,because I read here and there and I supposed a consequence of what it's happening nowdays.

 

[RawTruth]

:salam2:
I am sure it is "nature", the nature that Allah has created.
I think sometimes humans sit and think to much and make thing harder than they need to be, but to each his own!

 

[Um Ibrahim]

:salam2:

science is nothing but experimenting and discovering something new to the person experimenting by trial and error. So to make science into something amazing or better than religion, specifically our religion is just ridiculous. Religion is better than science and was always here ever since Allah created us, Allah gave us a religion to follow. When Prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him, ordered his followers to brush their teeth, wash their hands, clean themselves after they've used the bathroom, and a lot of other healthy habits did the scientists knew about the benefits of all of those things? NO! yet the Prophet knew about it, why? because he had religion! Allah gave him something so beautiful! Germs and the spread of disease through uncleanliness was just discovered not that long ago.