Perseveranze
Junior Member
Are you serious lol, or is this a mistype.
Jen's Concerns
- Thread starter JenGiove
- Start date
Are you serious lol, or is this a mistype.
My long response
:salam2: To the Membership:
When I wake up in the morning, it is not my email I check first. It is not Facebook that I check first. I check TTI first. Imagine my astonishment when I saw this thread, listing me as the thread started posted here. I thought my account had been hacked and I started to read.
Let me set the record start, *I* neither started this thread nor asked for it to be started. I also find the thread title to be misleading. The thread seems to be aimed at singling me out for censure due to statements I made instead of addressing any assumed concerns or questions I may or may not have had. I find that to be highly unfair.
Allow me to address some points in random order. I will be breaking this response up into sections so please bear with me until I post my conclusion before you comment:
abdul-aziz said:
“She was commenting to someone who is not a muslim but married and knows real live muslims.”
I had no idea that Brother Idris was not a Muslim. Currently, there are:
83,839 Members
52,650 Threads
395,441 Posts
How is anyone supposed to know the life stories of every single member? Brother Idris has 990 posts since joining in 2008. How was I supposed to know that he was not a Muslim but married and knows real life Muslims?
:salam2: To the Membership:
When I wake up in the morning, it is not my email I check first. It is not Facebook that I check first. I check TTI first. Imagine my astonishment when I saw this thread, listing me as the thread started posted here. I thought my account had been hacked and I started to read.
Let me set the record start, *I* neither started this thread nor asked for it to be started. I also find the thread title to be misleading. The thread seems to be aimed at singling me out for censure due to statements I made instead of addressing any assumed concerns or questions I may or may not have had. I find that to be highly unfair.
Allow me to address some points in random order. I will be breaking this response up into sections so please bear with me until I post my conclusion before you comment:
abdul-aziz said:
“She was commenting to someone who is not a muslim but married and knows real live muslims.”
I had no idea that Brother Idris was not a Muslim. Currently, there are:
83,839 Members
52,650 Threads
395,441 Posts
How is anyone supposed to know the life stories of every single member? Brother Idris has 990 posts since joining in 2008. How was I supposed to know that he was not a Muslim but married and knows real life Muslims?
Israel/Palestine
As for what I said to Brother Idris in regards to Muslims killing Kaffirs in Israel. In the thread “The words we chose to use”, he specifically stated the following:
“There's not a single country where Muslims kill kuffâr in great number.”
He pm’d me after my reply to him and I am sharing with you a copy of what I said to Brother Idris in a pm:
“Brother, please read what I said again...I SPECIFICLY said "Islamicly sactioned or not" which means that I was not condemning the actions of Muslims, because I agree that in that place, the right to defend yourself from harm is covered under shariah law. Technically, The people in Israel are Kaffir and there is a war between Muslims and Jews.....”
The world is a huge place with so many wars going on. My world consists of my 3 year old son, my husband and some personal activities. Israel was the only place I had the teensiest awareness of. You will find that most American’s have similar lives. We’re too busy trying to live, work and survive to do anything more than turn on the evening news. We get the briefest glimpse that there is another half of the world and even then, we only get the headlines.
Sister Samiha, the thread started posted these statistics:
“At least 6,430 Palestinians and 1,084 Israelis have been killed since September 29, 2000.”
I looked up on Wikipedia and found the following demographics:
Israeli:
Combatant: 31% Civilian: 69% Male: 69% Female: 31 % Children: 12% Children Male: not available Children female: not available
Palestinian:
Combatant: 41% Civilian: 59% Male: 94% Female: 6 % Children: 20% Children Male: 87% Children female: 13%
[FONT="]
At first glance, you might think that the numbers are inflated to be more sympathetic to the Israelis than the Palestinians, but how do you explain the children? More Palestinian children are listed as having died than Israeli. Nothing incites outrage in the world than the loss of a child. Also, there is a 10% difference between Combatants and Civilians , a 25% difference between Male and Female, and an 8% difference between children. Even *I* can see that something about these numbers is fudged. Its like a tit-for-tat. Its as if a conversation went like this, “Palestine loses more combatant, Israel loses more civilians, Israel loses more female children but Palestine loose more children overall.”
NO war has even numbers like that!
Thank you Sister Samiha for pointing out these numbers for us. [/FONT]
As for what I said to Brother Idris in regards to Muslims killing Kaffirs in Israel. In the thread “The words we chose to use”, he specifically stated the following:
“There's not a single country where Muslims kill kuffâr in great number.”
He pm’d me after my reply to him and I am sharing with you a copy of what I said to Brother Idris in a pm:
“Brother, please read what I said again...I SPECIFICLY said "Islamicly sactioned or not" which means that I was not condemning the actions of Muslims, because I agree that in that place, the right to defend yourself from harm is covered under shariah law. Technically, The people in Israel are Kaffir and there is a war between Muslims and Jews.....”
The world is a huge place with so many wars going on. My world consists of my 3 year old son, my husband and some personal activities. Israel was the only place I had the teensiest awareness of. You will find that most American’s have similar lives. We’re too busy trying to live, work and survive to do anything more than turn on the evening news. We get the briefest glimpse that there is another half of the world and even then, we only get the headlines.
Sister Samiha, the thread started posted these statistics:
“At least 6,430 Palestinians and 1,084 Israelis have been killed since September 29, 2000.”
I looked up on Wikipedia and found the following demographics:
Israeli:
Combatant: 31% Civilian: 69% Male: 69% Female: 31 % Children: 12% Children Male: not available Children female: not available
Palestinian:
Combatant: 41% Civilian: 59% Male: 94% Female: 6 % Children: 20% Children Male: 87% Children female: 13%
[FONT="]
At first glance, you might think that the numbers are inflated to be more sympathetic to the Israelis than the Palestinians, but how do you explain the children? More Palestinian children are listed as having died than Israeli. Nothing incites outrage in the world than the loss of a child. Also, there is a 10% difference between Combatants and Civilians , a 25% difference between Male and Female, and an 8% difference between children. Even *I* can see that something about these numbers is fudged. Its like a tit-for-tat. Its as if a conversation went like this, “Palestine loses more combatant, Israel loses more civilians, Israel loses more female children but Palestine loose more children overall.”
NO war has even numbers like that!
Thank you Sister Samiha for pointing out these numbers for us. [/FONT]
Muslim/Non-Muslim relations
Someone once said to me that “Muslims don’t need to be defended, that they can do just fine on their own.” I wish I could remember who or where that was said to me but I cannot find it so I’m sorry to the person if I misquoted or misunderstand it.
I don’t hide the fact that I’m learning about Islam or that I have some very dear Sisters who are Muslim. I talk openly about it wherever I am and my facebook profile is covered with information that corrects the more known stereotypes relating to Islam, especially in regards to women’s issues. Here, when disputing with people who come in under the quise of asking questions, but in reality are here only to cause anger, I use the phrase “standing up WITH my Muslim Brothers and Sisters. Why do I emphasize “with”?
"Taking them as friends in general terms, taking them as helpers and supporters, and throwing in one’s lot with them. Allaah forbids all this, as He says (interpretation of the meaning): “O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as awliya’ (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but awliya’ to one another…” [al-Maa’idah 5:51].
( http://www.islamqa.com/en/re/2179/taking kaafir as friends)
No, Muslims do not need to be defended BY a non-Muslim but that also does not mean that a non-Muslim cannot fight BESIDE a Muslim when the need arises. It also doesn’t mean that Muslim cannot use non-Muslims temporarily.
“After the death of the Prophet’s uncle he went to Taif to call its people to Islam but they only encouraged their children to throw stones at the Prophet. The Prophet felt deeply hurt and humiliated, but al-Mut’am bin ‘Adyi helped him return to Mecca under his and his sons protection. The Prophet was grateful for his help and after the victory of the battle of Badr- although al-Mut’am died as an unbeliever- the Prophet said: “if al-Mut’am bin Adyi were alive and asked me to free the captives, I would have freed them for him.” (68)”
Further on we read:
“Islamic history also reports the assistance rendered to the Muslim armies by some of the Christians against other Christians, the Romans in Syria and in Egypt. (75) Even today, when we look at the help rendered by the non-Muslims to the oppressed Muslims in Bosnia and Somalia, compared to the help coming from the Muslims we find good examples of the humanitarian bond bypassing the religious bond.
This is not to say that these non-Muslims loved Islam but rather to say that being a non-Muslim does not always mean dislike or hatred for Muslims or plotting against Islam. Rejecting Islam for ones self is one thing and hatred for Islam is another thing. In fact there are non-Muslims who appreciate Islam but have no courage to change their religion and what they are used to. Perhaps, the difference is not visible to many people, but there is a critical difference. Non-Muslims may not like the Muslims’ religion, but they appreciate their treatment or the benefits they get from true Muslims. In other words, Muslims and non-Muslims could share the same interest, but with different motivations. This fact does not rule out the existence of wicked or hostile non-Muslims, whose hatred for Islam has blinded them from not only the truth but also from justice.”
(68) al Bukhari, trans. Khan vol 4: 239-240; and see the comment of al-‘As-Qalani on the Hadeeth.
(75) Abu Yusuf pp. 30, 81; Arnold p. 44-50, 87; A recent example is what what we see in Bosnia-Herzeegovina and in Somalia, the help coming from the Muslims is not comparable to the help coming from the non-Muslims.
(Muslim and Non-Muslim Relation by Dr. Saeed Ismaeel Sieny
King Fahd National Library Cataloging-in-Publication Data
Sieny, Said Esmail
Muslim and non-muslim relation/ Said Esmail Sieny-
Al-Madinah Al Munawarah, 2003
ISBN: 9960-10-856-2
Personally, the fact that the Prophet spoke in such a respectful manner about a non-Muslim should speak volumes about his thoughts on other people’s beliefs. While he did not subscrip to their beliefs, he understood that they were THEIR beliefs and that having a different belief did NOT mean that they were beneath him and did not preclude him viewing them as decent people deserving his admiration and respect. He saw people as people and so long as they did not push their own beliefs on him or defamed his own beliefs, pleasant association with them was welcomed.
Sister Hayat84 said something that shocked me:
“I know that there is a difference between "kuffar" and "kafir".if I am not wrong,the fisrt one means "someone who disobey/he knows Allah's existence,but he chooses not to follow His orders),while the second one means"disbeliever"(the one who refuses Allah's way:the munafiqin,kadhibin).”
[FONT="]
Someone please tell me, is this correct? I know the difference between kufr and kaffir is the sinful acts and the non-Muslim but not being a native Arabic speaker, I just chocked up the difference in spelling as nothing more than individual choice of spelling of the same word.[/FONT]
Someone once said to me that “Muslims don’t need to be defended, that they can do just fine on their own.” I wish I could remember who or where that was said to me but I cannot find it so I’m sorry to the person if I misquoted or misunderstand it.
I don’t hide the fact that I’m learning about Islam or that I have some very dear Sisters who are Muslim. I talk openly about it wherever I am and my facebook profile is covered with information that corrects the more known stereotypes relating to Islam, especially in regards to women’s issues. Here, when disputing with people who come in under the quise of asking questions, but in reality are here only to cause anger, I use the phrase “standing up WITH my Muslim Brothers and Sisters. Why do I emphasize “with”?
"Taking them as friends in general terms, taking them as helpers and supporters, and throwing in one’s lot with them. Allaah forbids all this, as He says (interpretation of the meaning): “O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as awliya’ (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but awliya’ to one another…” [al-Maa’idah 5:51].
( http://www.islamqa.com/en/re/2179/taking kaafir as friends)
No, Muslims do not need to be defended BY a non-Muslim but that also does not mean that a non-Muslim cannot fight BESIDE a Muslim when the need arises. It also doesn’t mean that Muslim cannot use non-Muslims temporarily.
“After the death of the Prophet’s uncle he went to Taif to call its people to Islam but they only encouraged their children to throw stones at the Prophet. The Prophet felt deeply hurt and humiliated, but al-Mut’am bin ‘Adyi helped him return to Mecca under his and his sons protection. The Prophet was grateful for his help and after the victory of the battle of Badr- although al-Mut’am died as an unbeliever- the Prophet said: “if al-Mut’am bin Adyi were alive and asked me to free the captives, I would have freed them for him.” (68)”
Further on we read:
“Islamic history also reports the assistance rendered to the Muslim armies by some of the Christians against other Christians, the Romans in Syria and in Egypt. (75) Even today, when we look at the help rendered by the non-Muslims to the oppressed Muslims in Bosnia and Somalia, compared to the help coming from the Muslims we find good examples of the humanitarian bond bypassing the religious bond.
This is not to say that these non-Muslims loved Islam but rather to say that being a non-Muslim does not always mean dislike or hatred for Muslims or plotting against Islam. Rejecting Islam for ones self is one thing and hatred for Islam is another thing. In fact there are non-Muslims who appreciate Islam but have no courage to change their religion and what they are used to. Perhaps, the difference is not visible to many people, but there is a critical difference. Non-Muslims may not like the Muslims’ religion, but they appreciate their treatment or the benefits they get from true Muslims. In other words, Muslims and non-Muslims could share the same interest, but with different motivations. This fact does not rule out the existence of wicked or hostile non-Muslims, whose hatred for Islam has blinded them from not only the truth but also from justice.”
(68) al Bukhari, trans. Khan vol 4: 239-240; and see the comment of al-‘As-Qalani on the Hadeeth.
(75) Abu Yusuf pp. 30, 81; Arnold p. 44-50, 87; A recent example is what what we see in Bosnia-Herzeegovina and in Somalia, the help coming from the Muslims is not comparable to the help coming from the non-Muslims.
(Muslim and Non-Muslim Relation by Dr. Saeed Ismaeel Sieny
King Fahd National Library Cataloging-in-Publication Data
Sieny, Said Esmail
Muslim and non-muslim relation/ Said Esmail Sieny-
Al-Madinah Al Munawarah, 2003
ISBN: 9960-10-856-2
Personally, the fact that the Prophet spoke in such a respectful manner about a non-Muslim should speak volumes about his thoughts on other people’s beliefs. While he did not subscrip to their beliefs, he understood that they were THEIR beliefs and that having a different belief did NOT mean that they were beneath him and did not preclude him viewing them as decent people deserving his admiration and respect. He saw people as people and so long as they did not push their own beliefs on him or defamed his own beliefs, pleasant association with them was welcomed.
Sister Hayat84 said something that shocked me:
“I know that there is a difference between "kuffar" and "kafir".if I am not wrong,the fisrt one means "someone who disobey/he knows Allah's existence,but he chooses not to follow His orders),while the second one means"disbeliever"(the one who refuses Allah's way:the munafiqin,kadhibin).”
[FONT="]
Someone please tell me, is this correct? I know the difference between kufr and kaffir is the sinful acts and the non-Muslim but not being a native Arabic speaker, I just chocked up the difference in spelling as nothing more than individual choice of spelling of the same word.[/FONT]
The Boards
Recent world events have spurned heated discussions here on the boards. People expressing their outrage and fury. Having an opinion is normal and natural but this place is a public place and viewed by more then just registered members. We’ve become complacent in thinking that this is a closed group of members who are free to express their opinions in an unrestrained manner. This hadeeth comes to mind:
“ A man asked permission to enter upon the Prophet. When the Prophet saw him he said, “What an evil brother of his tribe! And what an evil son of his tribe!” When the man sat down, the Prophet behaved with him in a nice and polite manner and was completely at ease with him. When that person had left, ‘Aisha had said (to the Prophet), “O Allah’s Apostle! When you saw that man you said so-and-so about him then you showed him a kind and polite behavior and you enjoyed his company?” Allah’s Apostle said, “ O ‘Aisha! Have you ever seen me speak a bad or dirty language? (Remember that) the worst of people in Allah’s sight on the day of resurrection will be those who the people leave (undisturbed) to be away from their evil (deeds).”
(Bukhari vol 8, Book 73 Hadeeth 059A: Narrated by ‘Aisha)
Several things are going on in this hadeeth (as I see it). First, it shows that the Prophet had personal opinions and shared them but importantly is that he shared them in the privacy of his own home out of earshot of the person he was speaking about. In that person’s presence though, he was kind, welcoming and polite. Why did he behave in such a manner? To do otherwise would have placed him in the wrong and in the position of being the oppressor.
“Allah’s Apostle said, “Whoever has oppressed another for person concerning his reputation or anything else, he should beg him to forgive him before the Day of Resurrection when there will be no money (to compensate for wrong deeds), but if he has good deeds, those good deeds wil be taken from him according to his oppression which he has done, and if he has no good deeds the sins of the oppressed person will be loaded on him.”
(Vol 003, Book 043, Hadeeth Number 629; Narrated by Abu Huraira)
Christians would probably call this “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”
[FONT="]
Maybe what is needed is a secure room where only members can enter and a huge warning is posted notifying all those who enter that, unless a full and deep understanding of the issues is understood, what is expressed here may cause inflammatory reactions. While it may cause disturbance within the membership, it also provides a “privacy of the home” environment in which to express opinions in a allowed manner. Its just a thought.[/FONT]
Recent world events have spurned heated discussions here on the boards. People expressing their outrage and fury. Having an opinion is normal and natural but this place is a public place and viewed by more then just registered members. We’ve become complacent in thinking that this is a closed group of members who are free to express their opinions in an unrestrained manner. This hadeeth comes to mind:
“ A man asked permission to enter upon the Prophet. When the Prophet saw him he said, “What an evil brother of his tribe! And what an evil son of his tribe!” When the man sat down, the Prophet behaved with him in a nice and polite manner and was completely at ease with him. When that person had left, ‘Aisha had said (to the Prophet), “O Allah’s Apostle! When you saw that man you said so-and-so about him then you showed him a kind and polite behavior and you enjoyed his company?” Allah’s Apostle said, “ O ‘Aisha! Have you ever seen me speak a bad or dirty language? (Remember that) the worst of people in Allah’s sight on the day of resurrection will be those who the people leave (undisturbed) to be away from their evil (deeds).”
(Bukhari vol 8, Book 73 Hadeeth 059A: Narrated by ‘Aisha)
Several things are going on in this hadeeth (as I see it). First, it shows that the Prophet had personal opinions and shared them but importantly is that he shared them in the privacy of his own home out of earshot of the person he was speaking about. In that person’s presence though, he was kind, welcoming and polite. Why did he behave in such a manner? To do otherwise would have placed him in the wrong and in the position of being the oppressor.
“Allah’s Apostle said, “Whoever has oppressed another for person concerning his reputation or anything else, he should beg him to forgive him before the Day of Resurrection when there will be no money (to compensate for wrong deeds), but if he has good deeds, those good deeds wil be taken from him according to his oppression which he has done, and if he has no good deeds the sins of the oppressed person will be loaded on him.”
(Vol 003, Book 043, Hadeeth Number 629; Narrated by Abu Huraira)
Christians would probably call this “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”
[FONT="]
Maybe what is needed is a secure room where only members can enter and a huge warning is posted notifying all those who enter that, unless a full and deep understanding of the issues is understood, what is expressed here may cause inflammatory reactions. While it may cause disturbance within the membership, it also provides a “privacy of the home” environment in which to express opinions in a allowed manner. Its just a thought.[/FONT]
Terrorism
Brother Tariq353 kindly provided the verse that I subconsciously was remembering:
Quran 9:5 kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush.
Was my statement Islamiphobic? It had not been my intention to be such, but in retrospect, I guess it was. I’ve never watched any of the video and audio tapes that were released by Osama so I do not know what his words actually were. Of course, they were all released LONG before I even started to think about learning about Islam. I can only learn so much so quickly. Has no one else ever made thoughtless, insensitive remarks? We all make mistakes that we have to apologize for.
Brother Tariq also gave the commentary, wonderfully color coded for easier understanding.
“But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.”
In the West, that statement is construed to mean (in my own plan language), as “but if they don’t convert to Islam, kill them”.
“6. And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah [i.e., the Quran]. Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.”
Isn’t it possible that Osama forgot this as well?
As for Osama bin Laden and my personal views verses how I responded. Allow me to relate a conversation I had yesterday with my husband. It applies here and is not of a personal nature.
As a bit of background information, my husband works in an armed security position for the Department Of Defense on a military base. He is a Veteran of the United States Navy and was serving onboard a ship during the Iraq war. Yesterday, after he came home from work, we got into a discussion about the words terrorist verses Muslim terrorist. His position is that a Muslim terrorist is someone who kills with religious motivation. Mine was that when the media uses the term “Muslim terrorist” instead of terrorist, that to the general public who has not the motivation, time or education to learn or know that Islam does not condone terrorism, it encourages stereotyping and distrust. Here in the states, when a mass murderer is caught or killed, there is always that neighbor who is interviewed who says things like, “he was a quiet person who kept to himself and while he was nice, I didn’t really know him”. So, when someone who doesn’t know the true Islam sees a person who is a clearly a Muslim, the first thought might be “What are they thinking? Are they a danger to us? Do they hate us yet use us to get an education that will later be used against us? What should I do?” I told my husband that when someone uses the words “deaf guy” or “retarded person”, it places the physical disability first and the person second and so it is the same as “Muslim terrorist”. The person isn’t seen first, the religion is and that is a travesty, since the person who commits terrorism is not following the Qur’an or Sunnah properly.
We then got into a discussion about the actions of Osama and the actions of my father. As some of you know, my father and brother passed away last year. My father committed the most deplorable act a parent could ever do to his child. Someone who did not know my father, did not know his intentions and only heard what the media reported would deplore my father and think him the most vile person to do such a heinous act. I know my father’s reasons and the person that he was. I also know that my father was suffering from an undiagnosed mental disorder like paranoia and delusions. My husband agreed.
I then said that we do not know the person that Osama was since we didn’t know him, didn’t eat with him, didn’t sit and get to know him, so all we can accurately say is that we deplore the acts that were committed. My husband agreed. I never even knew that he was married with children until after his death. For a woman to marry him, he had to have had something of value within him. Who knows, maybe Osama had an undiagnosed mental disorder that exaggerated his dislike of Americans into hate and caused him to do such acts. We will never know. If he DID have an unknown mental disorder, and Allah heals him, I hope Osama recognizes that his acts went beyond the bounds of was is allowed and feels regret.
My mother hates my father. She always has and his act, with ties to his religious teachings, only aggravated that hate. I love my parents but feel trapped in the middle between wanting to defend my father, because he is my father, and wanting to be understanding of my mother’s feelings. The recent arguments on the boards regarding Osama and the West have made me realize that Muslims may feel the same way. Wanting to defend Osama because he was a Muslim and wanting to be understanding of the pain and anger that the West feels due to the acts of someone who distorted the teachings to achieve a goal. I think it’s fair to say that I am growing to pity the man.
In a different thread, I said:
“The fear of saying 'I'm sorry" is, in my personal view, cowardice.
Justoneinmillion replied:
“can I ask what crime am I to apologize for?”
To quote the book “Muslim And non-Muslim relations” once again, on page 31:
“The Muslim should remember the great difference between pride and arrogance and between sympathy and submission.”
[FONT="]
In English, the word “apology” is sometimes used to mean an expression of sympathy such as in the case of, “I’m sorry for your loss” upon hearing the news of the death of a loved one. There is also the “apology” upon learning the news or meeting someone who has experienced a huge trauma.[/FONT]
Brother Tariq353 kindly provided the verse that I subconsciously was remembering:
Quran 9:5 kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush.
Was my statement Islamiphobic? It had not been my intention to be such, but in retrospect, I guess it was. I’ve never watched any of the video and audio tapes that were released by Osama so I do not know what his words actually were. Of course, they were all released LONG before I even started to think about learning about Islam. I can only learn so much so quickly. Has no one else ever made thoughtless, insensitive remarks? We all make mistakes that we have to apologize for.
Brother Tariq also gave the commentary, wonderfully color coded for easier understanding.
“But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.”
In the West, that statement is construed to mean (in my own plan language), as “but if they don’t convert to Islam, kill them”.
“6. And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah [i.e., the Quran]. Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.”
Isn’t it possible that Osama forgot this as well?
As for Osama bin Laden and my personal views verses how I responded. Allow me to relate a conversation I had yesterday with my husband. It applies here and is not of a personal nature.
As a bit of background information, my husband works in an armed security position for the Department Of Defense on a military base. He is a Veteran of the United States Navy and was serving onboard a ship during the Iraq war. Yesterday, after he came home from work, we got into a discussion about the words terrorist verses Muslim terrorist. His position is that a Muslim terrorist is someone who kills with religious motivation. Mine was that when the media uses the term “Muslim terrorist” instead of terrorist, that to the general public who has not the motivation, time or education to learn or know that Islam does not condone terrorism, it encourages stereotyping and distrust. Here in the states, when a mass murderer is caught or killed, there is always that neighbor who is interviewed who says things like, “he was a quiet person who kept to himself and while he was nice, I didn’t really know him”. So, when someone who doesn’t know the true Islam sees a person who is a clearly a Muslim, the first thought might be “What are they thinking? Are they a danger to us? Do they hate us yet use us to get an education that will later be used against us? What should I do?” I told my husband that when someone uses the words “deaf guy” or “retarded person”, it places the physical disability first and the person second and so it is the same as “Muslim terrorist”. The person isn’t seen first, the religion is and that is a travesty, since the person who commits terrorism is not following the Qur’an or Sunnah properly.
We then got into a discussion about the actions of Osama and the actions of my father. As some of you know, my father and brother passed away last year. My father committed the most deplorable act a parent could ever do to his child. Someone who did not know my father, did not know his intentions and only heard what the media reported would deplore my father and think him the most vile person to do such a heinous act. I know my father’s reasons and the person that he was. I also know that my father was suffering from an undiagnosed mental disorder like paranoia and delusions. My husband agreed.
I then said that we do not know the person that Osama was since we didn’t know him, didn’t eat with him, didn’t sit and get to know him, so all we can accurately say is that we deplore the acts that were committed. My husband agreed. I never even knew that he was married with children until after his death. For a woman to marry him, he had to have had something of value within him. Who knows, maybe Osama had an undiagnosed mental disorder that exaggerated his dislike of Americans into hate and caused him to do such acts. We will never know. If he DID have an unknown mental disorder, and Allah heals him, I hope Osama recognizes that his acts went beyond the bounds of was is allowed and feels regret.
My mother hates my father. She always has and his act, with ties to his religious teachings, only aggravated that hate. I love my parents but feel trapped in the middle between wanting to defend my father, because he is my father, and wanting to be understanding of my mother’s feelings. The recent arguments on the boards regarding Osama and the West have made me realize that Muslims may feel the same way. Wanting to defend Osama because he was a Muslim and wanting to be understanding of the pain and anger that the West feels due to the acts of someone who distorted the teachings to achieve a goal. I think it’s fair to say that I am growing to pity the man.
In a different thread, I said:
“The fear of saying 'I'm sorry" is, in my personal view, cowardice.
Justoneinmillion replied:
“can I ask what crime am I to apologize for?”
To quote the book “Muslim And non-Muslim relations” once again, on page 31:
“The Muslim should remember the great difference between pride and arrogance and between sympathy and submission.”
[FONT="]
In English, the word “apology” is sometimes used to mean an expression of sympathy such as in the case of, “I’m sorry for your loss” upon hearing the news of the death of a loved one. There is also the “apology” upon learning the news or meeting someone who has experienced a huge trauma.[/FONT]
The Five Pillars
Many people have asked me questions similar to “Why aren’t you a Muslim? What’s stopping you? What do you think about Islam? Last year I was involved in a deep discussion with a member and created a very long response to a series of questions and created a bit of a “comparative” of the Five Pillars and my own beliefs as I understood them. I think its necessary to share that comparative here.
Begin:
I copied the Five Pillars down from Islam101 so that I could address each pillar accurately. You see, in my view, the native principles and those of Islam are so STRIKINGLY similar that it’s almost frightening, as if the natives never lost the path of Adam as so many other religions have. The only difference is that the environment that the native people moved into after crossing the land bridge dictated an adjustment of practice, but not the intent or purpose. Who knows, maybe the people who crossed the land bridge are the “lost tribes of Isreal…except we weren’t lost, we just moved!
As we both know, The Creator never does anything without reason. His plans are evident in nature. Though, I think the platypus has a special place in this world which I hope to expand on further, inshallah. First, allow me to share with you my thoughts and feelings on the five pillars and how the native world practices them.
The 'Five Pillars' of Islam are the foundation of Muslim life:
* Faith or belief in the Oneness of God and the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad;
"There is none worthy of worship except God and Muhammad is the messenger of God." This declaration of faith is called the Shahadah, a simple formula that all the faithful pronounce. The significance of this declaration is the belief that the only purpose of life is to serve and obey God, and this is achieved through the teachings and practices of the Last Prophet, Muhammad.
There is NO doubt in my mind and heart that there is only the one god. As a chef, the saying is “too many cooks spoil the soup”. Anything else labeled as “gods” I think are simply man’s attempt at identifying with aspects or qualities of the one god. In Zen Buddhism there is a “god” named “Bodhisattva”- as I understand it, the god of mercy and self-sacrifice”. If it was a Greek “god”, Bodhisattva would probably be the god of nurses and doctors <to give you an idea of what I mean>. Christians have Saints that serve that same role. People who have died and instead of moving on to heaven/paradise, choose to continue serving mankind from the spirit plane. Bhodi’s are people who choose not to enter nirvana <the state of pure selfless existence> until the last person alive has crossed into nirvana. In Islam, you might think that these people would choose to stand on the bridge across the hell fires until everyone else has crossed safely.
In the native American world, we have no ”one” prophet. The Mohawks <of which I am one…sorta. You could liken my standing as a “revert” in the native world> has one. He brought the “Great Law of Peace” to the 5 nations and helped bring unity to what is now known as the 6 nations <The Tuscarora nation was adopted into the confederacy later on>. Wars ended and that “Great Law of Peace” is what was used by the founding fathers of America as a guide when they drew up the constitution of the United States. They screwed it up though and the governing structure of responsibility, power, and accountability is upside down. The natives believe that the ones who deserve the highest respect are the children, for they are our future. We have no “shahada” but if you have a “native heart”, then it is shown through your actions and the community decides if they accept you as being “native”. You can become ‘adopted’ by a family and thus, adopted by the tribe…which then extends to all the nations. It takes time and dedication. Respect for all of Creator’s creations is paramount. Each thing here on this earth is related to us, simply because we are all creations of Creator. We are no better and no worse than a rock or a tree or an animal. In fact, sometimes, we are less close to Creator than any of those things BECAUSE we are sentient, free thinking beings. Once you stop becoming instinctual, you start drifting away from the true guidance of Creator. We try very hard to live in balance with things that are around us. We walk softly <to live without harming anything> and try to leave no trail behind <to leave no harmful lasting impact on the delicate balance of nature>. Native American’s realized long ago that to have a destructive impact on the environment meant harm to ourselves and to those who come after us. You know how in Islam you can make dua for the dead so as to help them enter into Jannah by entreating for them? Well, the natives have a belief….make decisions for the seventh generation. It means that whatever choice we make, whatever path we choose, make sure that it is for the benefit of the generation seven times away from you to come. Make sure that it will benefit your great great great great great great great grandchildren. I’ve noticed how many times the number 4 and the number 7 comes up in Islam. Those numbers are sacred numbers in the native world. The 4 directions of East, South, West, North. There is also Above, Below and Within. <Father sky who covers us, Mother earth who provides for us and within, our own souls>. All of these things exist because The Creator gave them to us to use correctly. When we don’t, we live out of balance and our life gets messed up and we have problems. In Islam, Creator either tests you and you pass the test by not fighting it or taking control <thus taking credit for something that is not yours to take credit for> or it is shaytain trying to lead you away from a balanced life. Yes, we believe in a trouble-making deity. Each tribe and nation has their own name or personification but the thinking is the same. Iktome <ick-toe-may> is either a coyote or a spider <depending on the nation>. There is also Grandmother Spider, which is a story keeper who weaves the web-story of life…how it is so fragile but each day is a new day and a new chance to start again.
Personally, I don’t like the label “prophet”. To me, it signifies that someone has made a prediction and that is fortune telling…blah! I’m still working on the label “messenger”. Mohammad was a thinking man and when you think and you observe, the hadith’s are simple logic and nothing new to me. Granted, I can’t perform miracles…but his teachings are simple and logical and wisdom that I already knew and understood.
* Establishment of the daily prayers;
Salah is the name for the obligatory prayers that are performed five times a day, and are a direct link between the worshipper and God. There is no hierarchical authority in Islam and there are no priests. Prayers are led by a learned person who knows the Qur'an and is generally chosen by the congregation.
Prayers are said at dawn, mid-day, late-afternoon, sunset and nightfall, and thus determine the rhythm of the entire day. These five prescribed prayers contain verses from the Qur'an, and are said in Arabic, the language of the Revelation. Personal supplications, however, can be offered in one's own language and at any time.
Although it is preferable to worship together in a mosque, a Muslim may pray almost anywhere, such as in fields, offices, factories and universities. Oftentimes visitors to the Muslim world are struck by the centrality of prayers in daily life.
Yup, we pray daily too, though we do not have a set number that is obligatory. Yes, we “wash” ourselves with what we call “smudge”. Usually 4 herbs are burned and brushed over ourselves to wash off the negative thoughts and energies that we have accumulated. They are Sage, Sweetgrass, Tobacco, and Cedar. Each corresponds with a direction and a nation <red people, white people, yellow people and black people>. When we have group ceremony, a person who is well versed in the prayers of that nation, or an elder if it is a mixed group of nations, will give the prayers. A lot of times, there is a separate person who does the smudging of the people and the prayer space <a role that I have held many times> and those people are usually people who are sensitive to the slightest change in the emotional energy of the people and space. A tiring job, I can tell you. It is obligatory that you get smudged before ceremony and it is recommended when you are offering up personal supplications. I have been told that for certain ceremonies, the prayers can take up to 3 days to complete. I also know that there are ceremonies that take 2 weeks to complete, from preparation to breakdown. Those particular ceremonies I cannot share with you since they are so sacred and I am uneducated as to their fullness. You understand that, I know.
* Concern for and almsgiving to the needy;
An important principle of Islam is that everything belongs to God, and that wealth is therefore held by human beings in trust. The word zakah means both "purification" and "growth." Our possessions are purified by setting aside a proportion for those in need and for the society in general. Like the pruning of plants, this cutting back balances and encourages new growth.
Each Muslim calculates his or her own zakah individually. This involves the annual payment of a fortieth of one's capital, excluding such items as primary residence, car and professional tools.
An individual may also give as much as he or she pleases as sadaqa-h, and does so preferably in secret. Although this word can be translated as "voluntary charity" it has a wider meaning.
The Prophet said, "Even meeting your brother with a cheerful face is an act of charity." The Prophet also said: "Charity is a necessity for every Muslim." He was asked: "What if a person has nothing?" The Prophet replied: "He should work with his own hands for his benefit and then give something out of such earnings in charity." The Companions of the Prophet asked: "What if he is not able to work?" The Prophet said: "He should help the poor and needy." The Companions further asked: "What if he cannot do even that?" The Prophet said: "He should urge others to do good." The Companions said: "What if he lacks that also?" The Prophet said: "He should check himself from doing evil. That is also an act of charity."
Hmm…something I’m quite good at! Sadaqa-h. In the native world, we have no set amount BUT, we have something called “a give-away”. When you get married, or you had a birth or a ceremony where you received a new name, or someone died…etc… traditionally <which means back when everyone lived in lodges <teepees> or the longhouse’s <eastern woodland tribes who were farmers and not nomadic lived in permanent settlements>, you gave everything away to the people except your lodge and your clothing on your back. You started fresh and clean and thanked everyone around you for supporting you through to this moment. Because everyone depended on everyone else, charity was a daily thing.
There is a documented anthropological story where there was an old woman who lived on the edge of the village. Her husband had died and she had no family so she lived on donations and whatever she could trap herself. One evening, some warriors came riding hard and fast into camp and stopped at her lodge and ate all the meat that she had hanging up to dry and cure. Some missionaries saw this and saw the old woman standing outside her lodge wailing. They thought, “How awful and cruel! These men were thoughtless and stole all her food! What savages!!” The old woman then got translated and it was found out that the reason why she was crying was NOT because she had no more food, but she said that she was so “thankful to Creator for allowing her to trap those few rabbits so that she was able to provide for the warriors”…who we then learned were bring news of an approaching enemy tribe and that they had ridden hard for several days and had not had anything to eat for that time. Talk about charity and caring for the tribe to the point of being self-less.
The practice of the give-away is still practiced, though not to the extent of giving everything you own away. However, the attempt to accumulate enough goods to have something to give everyone who attends such large events, numbering usually in the hundreds, takes a big chunk out of people’s pockets. For instance, at my own wedding, I served everyone food before I ate. I made sure that my guests, some I knew, some I didn’t, were fed before I was. It was a potluck and served buffet style. Me and my family, which surprised the heck out of me since I did not ask them to, stood and served everyone. I spent more money preparing for the feast then I did on any other part of the wedding. I know of other people who, when they are at powwows, would prepare enough food so that no one goes hungry…whether they are family, friends, or strangers.
That’s just our way.
* Self-purification through fasting; and Every year in the month of Ramada-n, all Muslims fast from dawn until sundown--abstaining from food, drink, and sexual relations with their spouses.
Those who are sick, elderly, or on a journey, and women who are menstruating, pregnant or nursing, are permitted to break the fast and make up an equal number of days later in the year if they are healthy and able. Children begin to fast (and to observe prayers) from puberty, although many start earlier.
Although fasting is beneficial to health, it is mainly a method of self-purification and self-restraint. By cutting oneself from worldly comforts, even for a short time, a fasting person focuses on his or her purpose in life by constantly being aware of the presence of God. God states in the Qur'an: "O you who believe! Fasting is prescribed for you as it was prescribed to those before you that you may learn self-restraint." (Qur'an 2:183)
Yet another thing we do. There are some ceremonies that are done where you fast for 4 days, day and night…..no water, no food and for those who are strong enough of will, no sleep. We isolate ourselves, go off into a secluded area of nature and sit and pray. We wait for visions to come or not come, whichever the case may be. As the saying goes, “sometimes, the answer is no.”. For other ceremonies, we fast during the day and then at sundown, we start the ceremony, which can last for many hours into the night and then we all get together and feast. That IS mandatory. No ceremony of supplication can be done without a feast afterwards. For every sacrifice, there is a reaping of reward. You might call it a smaller version of Eid.
* The pilgrimage to Makkah for those who are able.
The pilgrimage to Makkah (the hajj) is an obligation only for those who are physically and financially able to do so. Nevertheless, over two million people go to Makkah each year from every corner of the globe providing a unique opportunity for those of different nations to meet one another.
The annual hajj begins in the twelfth month of the Islamic year (which is lunar, not solar, so that hajj and Ramada-n fall sometimes in summer, sometimes in winter). Pilgrims wear special clothes: simple garments that strip away distinctions of class and culture, so that all stand equal before God.
The rites of the hajj, which are of Abrahamic origin, include going around the Ka'bah seven times, and going seven times between the hills of Safa and Marwa as did Hagar (Hajir, Abraham's wife) during her search for water. The pilgrims later stand together on the wide plains of 'Arafat (a large expanse of desert outside Makkah) and join in prayer for God's forgiveness, in what is often thought as a preview of the Day of Judgment.
The close of the hajj is marked by a festival, the 'Id al Adha, which is celebrated with prayers and the exchange of gifts in Muslim communities everywhere. This and the 'Id al Fitr, a festive day celebrating the end of Ramada-n, are the two holidays of the Islamic calendar.
Hajj is the only thing that we do not have something that correlates with it. There may be ceremonies that are done by certain tribes that have parts and rituals that correspond with those done during Hajj, but I do not know enough to tell you.
Many people have asked me questions similar to “Why aren’t you a Muslim? What’s stopping you? What do you think about Islam? Last year I was involved in a deep discussion with a member and created a very long response to a series of questions and created a bit of a “comparative” of the Five Pillars and my own beliefs as I understood them. I think its necessary to share that comparative here.
Begin:
I copied the Five Pillars down from Islam101 so that I could address each pillar accurately. You see, in my view, the native principles and those of Islam are so STRIKINGLY similar that it’s almost frightening, as if the natives never lost the path of Adam as so many other religions have. The only difference is that the environment that the native people moved into after crossing the land bridge dictated an adjustment of practice, but not the intent or purpose. Who knows, maybe the people who crossed the land bridge are the “lost tribes of Isreal…except we weren’t lost, we just moved!
As we both know, The Creator never does anything without reason. His plans are evident in nature. Though, I think the platypus has a special place in this world which I hope to expand on further, inshallah. First, allow me to share with you my thoughts and feelings on the five pillars and how the native world practices them.
The 'Five Pillars' of Islam are the foundation of Muslim life:
* Faith or belief in the Oneness of God and the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad;
"There is none worthy of worship except God and Muhammad is the messenger of God." This declaration of faith is called the Shahadah, a simple formula that all the faithful pronounce. The significance of this declaration is the belief that the only purpose of life is to serve and obey God, and this is achieved through the teachings and practices of the Last Prophet, Muhammad.
There is NO doubt in my mind and heart that there is only the one god. As a chef, the saying is “too many cooks spoil the soup”. Anything else labeled as “gods” I think are simply man’s attempt at identifying with aspects or qualities of the one god. In Zen Buddhism there is a “god” named “Bodhisattva”- as I understand it, the god of mercy and self-sacrifice”. If it was a Greek “god”, Bodhisattva would probably be the god of nurses and doctors <to give you an idea of what I mean>. Christians have Saints that serve that same role. People who have died and instead of moving on to heaven/paradise, choose to continue serving mankind from the spirit plane. Bhodi’s are people who choose not to enter nirvana <the state of pure selfless existence> until the last person alive has crossed into nirvana. In Islam, you might think that these people would choose to stand on the bridge across the hell fires until everyone else has crossed safely.
In the native American world, we have no ”one” prophet. The Mohawks <of which I am one…sorta. You could liken my standing as a “revert” in the native world> has one. He brought the “Great Law of Peace” to the 5 nations and helped bring unity to what is now known as the 6 nations <The Tuscarora nation was adopted into the confederacy later on>. Wars ended and that “Great Law of Peace” is what was used by the founding fathers of America as a guide when they drew up the constitution of the United States. They screwed it up though and the governing structure of responsibility, power, and accountability is upside down. The natives believe that the ones who deserve the highest respect are the children, for they are our future. We have no “shahada” but if you have a “native heart”, then it is shown through your actions and the community decides if they accept you as being “native”. You can become ‘adopted’ by a family and thus, adopted by the tribe…which then extends to all the nations. It takes time and dedication. Respect for all of Creator’s creations is paramount. Each thing here on this earth is related to us, simply because we are all creations of Creator. We are no better and no worse than a rock or a tree or an animal. In fact, sometimes, we are less close to Creator than any of those things BECAUSE we are sentient, free thinking beings. Once you stop becoming instinctual, you start drifting away from the true guidance of Creator. We try very hard to live in balance with things that are around us. We walk softly <to live without harming anything> and try to leave no trail behind <to leave no harmful lasting impact on the delicate balance of nature>. Native American’s realized long ago that to have a destructive impact on the environment meant harm to ourselves and to those who come after us. You know how in Islam you can make dua for the dead so as to help them enter into Jannah by entreating for them? Well, the natives have a belief….make decisions for the seventh generation. It means that whatever choice we make, whatever path we choose, make sure that it is for the benefit of the generation seven times away from you to come. Make sure that it will benefit your great great great great great great great grandchildren. I’ve noticed how many times the number 4 and the number 7 comes up in Islam. Those numbers are sacred numbers in the native world. The 4 directions of East, South, West, North. There is also Above, Below and Within. <Father sky who covers us, Mother earth who provides for us and within, our own souls>. All of these things exist because The Creator gave them to us to use correctly. When we don’t, we live out of balance and our life gets messed up and we have problems. In Islam, Creator either tests you and you pass the test by not fighting it or taking control <thus taking credit for something that is not yours to take credit for> or it is shaytain trying to lead you away from a balanced life. Yes, we believe in a trouble-making deity. Each tribe and nation has their own name or personification but the thinking is the same. Iktome <ick-toe-may> is either a coyote or a spider <depending on the nation>. There is also Grandmother Spider, which is a story keeper who weaves the web-story of life…how it is so fragile but each day is a new day and a new chance to start again.
Personally, I don’t like the label “prophet”. To me, it signifies that someone has made a prediction and that is fortune telling…blah! I’m still working on the label “messenger”. Mohammad was a thinking man and when you think and you observe, the hadith’s are simple logic and nothing new to me. Granted, I can’t perform miracles…but his teachings are simple and logical and wisdom that I already knew and understood.
* Establishment of the daily prayers;
Salah is the name for the obligatory prayers that are performed five times a day, and are a direct link between the worshipper and God. There is no hierarchical authority in Islam and there are no priests. Prayers are led by a learned person who knows the Qur'an and is generally chosen by the congregation.
Prayers are said at dawn, mid-day, late-afternoon, sunset and nightfall, and thus determine the rhythm of the entire day. These five prescribed prayers contain verses from the Qur'an, and are said in Arabic, the language of the Revelation. Personal supplications, however, can be offered in one's own language and at any time.
Although it is preferable to worship together in a mosque, a Muslim may pray almost anywhere, such as in fields, offices, factories and universities. Oftentimes visitors to the Muslim world are struck by the centrality of prayers in daily life.
Yup, we pray daily too, though we do not have a set number that is obligatory. Yes, we “wash” ourselves with what we call “smudge”. Usually 4 herbs are burned and brushed over ourselves to wash off the negative thoughts and energies that we have accumulated. They are Sage, Sweetgrass, Tobacco, and Cedar. Each corresponds with a direction and a nation <red people, white people, yellow people and black people>. When we have group ceremony, a person who is well versed in the prayers of that nation, or an elder if it is a mixed group of nations, will give the prayers. A lot of times, there is a separate person who does the smudging of the people and the prayer space <a role that I have held many times> and those people are usually people who are sensitive to the slightest change in the emotional energy of the people and space. A tiring job, I can tell you. It is obligatory that you get smudged before ceremony and it is recommended when you are offering up personal supplications. I have been told that for certain ceremonies, the prayers can take up to 3 days to complete. I also know that there are ceremonies that take 2 weeks to complete, from preparation to breakdown. Those particular ceremonies I cannot share with you since they are so sacred and I am uneducated as to their fullness. You understand that, I know.
* Concern for and almsgiving to the needy;
An important principle of Islam is that everything belongs to God, and that wealth is therefore held by human beings in trust. The word zakah means both "purification" and "growth." Our possessions are purified by setting aside a proportion for those in need and for the society in general. Like the pruning of plants, this cutting back balances and encourages new growth.
Each Muslim calculates his or her own zakah individually. This involves the annual payment of a fortieth of one's capital, excluding such items as primary residence, car and professional tools.
An individual may also give as much as he or she pleases as sadaqa-h, and does so preferably in secret. Although this word can be translated as "voluntary charity" it has a wider meaning.
The Prophet said, "Even meeting your brother with a cheerful face is an act of charity." The Prophet also said: "Charity is a necessity for every Muslim." He was asked: "What if a person has nothing?" The Prophet replied: "He should work with his own hands for his benefit and then give something out of such earnings in charity." The Companions of the Prophet asked: "What if he is not able to work?" The Prophet said: "He should help the poor and needy." The Companions further asked: "What if he cannot do even that?" The Prophet said: "He should urge others to do good." The Companions said: "What if he lacks that also?" The Prophet said: "He should check himself from doing evil. That is also an act of charity."
Hmm…something I’m quite good at! Sadaqa-h. In the native world, we have no set amount BUT, we have something called “a give-away”. When you get married, or you had a birth or a ceremony where you received a new name, or someone died…etc… traditionally <which means back when everyone lived in lodges <teepees> or the longhouse’s <eastern woodland tribes who were farmers and not nomadic lived in permanent settlements>, you gave everything away to the people except your lodge and your clothing on your back. You started fresh and clean and thanked everyone around you for supporting you through to this moment. Because everyone depended on everyone else, charity was a daily thing.
There is a documented anthropological story where there was an old woman who lived on the edge of the village. Her husband had died and she had no family so she lived on donations and whatever she could trap herself. One evening, some warriors came riding hard and fast into camp and stopped at her lodge and ate all the meat that she had hanging up to dry and cure. Some missionaries saw this and saw the old woman standing outside her lodge wailing. They thought, “How awful and cruel! These men were thoughtless and stole all her food! What savages!!” The old woman then got translated and it was found out that the reason why she was crying was NOT because she had no more food, but she said that she was so “thankful to Creator for allowing her to trap those few rabbits so that she was able to provide for the warriors”…who we then learned were bring news of an approaching enemy tribe and that they had ridden hard for several days and had not had anything to eat for that time. Talk about charity and caring for the tribe to the point of being self-less.
The practice of the give-away is still practiced, though not to the extent of giving everything you own away. However, the attempt to accumulate enough goods to have something to give everyone who attends such large events, numbering usually in the hundreds, takes a big chunk out of people’s pockets. For instance, at my own wedding, I served everyone food before I ate. I made sure that my guests, some I knew, some I didn’t, were fed before I was. It was a potluck and served buffet style. Me and my family, which surprised the heck out of me since I did not ask them to, stood and served everyone. I spent more money preparing for the feast then I did on any other part of the wedding. I know of other people who, when they are at powwows, would prepare enough food so that no one goes hungry…whether they are family, friends, or strangers.
That’s just our way.
* Self-purification through fasting; and Every year in the month of Ramada-n, all Muslims fast from dawn until sundown--abstaining from food, drink, and sexual relations with their spouses.
Those who are sick, elderly, or on a journey, and women who are menstruating, pregnant or nursing, are permitted to break the fast and make up an equal number of days later in the year if they are healthy and able. Children begin to fast (and to observe prayers) from puberty, although many start earlier.
Although fasting is beneficial to health, it is mainly a method of self-purification and self-restraint. By cutting oneself from worldly comforts, even for a short time, a fasting person focuses on his or her purpose in life by constantly being aware of the presence of God. God states in the Qur'an: "O you who believe! Fasting is prescribed for you as it was prescribed to those before you that you may learn self-restraint." (Qur'an 2:183)
Yet another thing we do. There are some ceremonies that are done where you fast for 4 days, day and night…..no water, no food and for those who are strong enough of will, no sleep. We isolate ourselves, go off into a secluded area of nature and sit and pray. We wait for visions to come or not come, whichever the case may be. As the saying goes, “sometimes, the answer is no.”. For other ceremonies, we fast during the day and then at sundown, we start the ceremony, which can last for many hours into the night and then we all get together and feast. That IS mandatory. No ceremony of supplication can be done without a feast afterwards. For every sacrifice, there is a reaping of reward. You might call it a smaller version of Eid.
* The pilgrimage to Makkah for those who are able.
The pilgrimage to Makkah (the hajj) is an obligation only for those who are physically and financially able to do so. Nevertheless, over two million people go to Makkah each year from every corner of the globe providing a unique opportunity for those of different nations to meet one another.
The annual hajj begins in the twelfth month of the Islamic year (which is lunar, not solar, so that hajj and Ramada-n fall sometimes in summer, sometimes in winter). Pilgrims wear special clothes: simple garments that strip away distinctions of class and culture, so that all stand equal before God.
The rites of the hajj, which are of Abrahamic origin, include going around the Ka'bah seven times, and going seven times between the hills of Safa and Marwa as did Hagar (Hajir, Abraham's wife) during her search for water. The pilgrims later stand together on the wide plains of 'Arafat (a large expanse of desert outside Makkah) and join in prayer for God's forgiveness, in what is often thought as a preview of the Day of Judgment.
The close of the hajj is marked by a festival, the 'Id al Adha, which is celebrated with prayers and the exchange of gifts in Muslim communities everywhere. This and the 'Id al Fitr, a festive day celebrating the end of Ramada-n, are the two holidays of the Islamic calendar.
Hajj is the only thing that we do not have something that correlates with it. There may be ceremonies that are done by certain tribes that have parts and rituals that correspond with those done during Hajj, but I do not know enough to tell you.
In Conclusion
As I stated to Brother Mabsoot, I apologize for inadvertently causing such an uproar with things that I have said. The media of the written word makes it hard to convey, in its fullness, the actual intent of a person’s statements due to the lack of facial expression and tone of voice. Here, where there are so many people who speak so many different languages from so many different lands, who have experienced different sides of the world, it’s even harder to not cause dissention and strife.
I never came here to push my own religious beliefs or to purposely cause anger. I’m still human though and when I see statements that seem so one sided and bigoted, I get angry. I speak out. I’ve seen the membership do it so many times. Why is it allowable for some to express outrage at the stereotyping that goes on in the world that effects them but I’m curtailed in doing so and I am seen as the instigator? We all have failed in controlling ourselves 100% at some point in our lives. We all have lost our patience and “blown up”. We all have said something mean that we wish we could take back. So why is it that some members are allowed to continue disseminating anti-this or anti-that speech in a place where those same people exist?
Are we welcome here or not? That is the wrong way to show it. I have been called some of the worst names here on the boards but has anyone stepped up, publicly, to say “This is wrong!”? Not to my knowledge. The same rules of conduct should apply to ALL members. If someone is insulting in public, then it should be corrected in public. Why? The victim of the insult and the witnesses of the insult need to understand that such behavior will not be tolerated and that the membership will publicly defend against unfairness and intolerance.
Silence is either ignorance or agreement….
Salaam..
As I stated to Brother Mabsoot, I apologize for inadvertently causing such an uproar with things that I have said. The media of the written word makes it hard to convey, in its fullness, the actual intent of a person’s statements due to the lack of facial expression and tone of voice. Here, where there are so many people who speak so many different languages from so many different lands, who have experienced different sides of the world, it’s even harder to not cause dissention and strife.
I never came here to push my own religious beliefs or to purposely cause anger. I’m still human though and when I see statements that seem so one sided and bigoted, I get angry. I speak out. I’ve seen the membership do it so many times. Why is it allowable for some to express outrage at the stereotyping that goes on in the world that effects them but I’m curtailed in doing so and I am seen as the instigator? We all have failed in controlling ourselves 100% at some point in our lives. We all have lost our patience and “blown up”. We all have said something mean that we wish we could take back. So why is it that some members are allowed to continue disseminating anti-this or anti-that speech in a place where those same people exist?
Are we welcome here or not? That is the wrong way to show it. I have been called some of the worst names here on the boards but has anyone stepped up, publicly, to say “This is wrong!”? Not to my knowledge. The same rules of conduct should apply to ALL members. If someone is insulting in public, then it should be corrected in public. Why? The victim of the insult and the witnesses of the insult need to understand that such behavior will not be tolerated and that the membership will publicly defend against unfairness and intolerance.
Silence is either ignorance or agreement….
Salaam..
hayat84
I'm not what you believe
:salam2:
JenGiove,forgive me,I didn't want to chok you.I just heard the difference between Kufar/kafir on an islamic channel on tv (islam tv)in which it was explained the big difference among those kinds of disobeyers.both the words come from the original "kfr".you may find it on a vocabulary.:shake:
JenGiove,forgive me,I didn't want to chok you.I just heard the difference between Kufar/kafir on an islamic channel on tv (islam tv)in which it was explained the big difference among those kinds of disobeyers.both the words come from the original "kfr".you may find it on a vocabulary.:shake:
:salam2: Dear sister,
I was just so surprised...I had no idea that there was a difference. I've seen so many different spellings for the same word that I just assumed that this was the same here. I'm trilled that you learned that information and passed it on...
Jazakallah khair!
:shake:.Igave only the 1% of what I learnt here on tti
MohammedMaksudul
May Allah Forgive us
:salam2:
This hadith is meant for Muslims only, since no disbeliever or rejector of Faith in Allah سبحانه وتعالى and His Last Messenger صلى الله عليه و سلم will ever enter paradise. But that does not mean a Muslim can oppress a non-Muslim, the Muslim will still be accountable for him/herself for all the injustice (even towards non-Muslims) and laws that he/she might have broken.
America's so called war on terror has made our lives here on this side of the world hard and making it worse day by day. Our Government are nothing but pawns of the terrorist Regime sitting in a house which is white. In fact just yesterday I was talking to a brother, who has stopped coming to the mashjid for now because he is under pressure from the intelligence agencies and it is not just him but many others here are marked, stalked, etc. Any young guy with a beard is just suspicious. Imagine being in fear of going to the Mashjid in a country of so called more than 85% Muslims. Even though the terrorist regime is not directly oppressing us in the place I am residing now yet, but indirectly it is using our own government and inspiring it to take people away from Islam day by day and torture and harass those who give dawa of the true Laa Ilaha Illallah. Even youth who attend 5 times prayer in the Mashjid are marked, for being so called potential danger. This is just one issue I am mentioning here, which is only like a drop in the ocean. There are many more and this is just here, and the situation in Afghanistan, Iraq, etc are very clear to everyone. And mainly because Islam requires us to be like one body, if one part is hurt the whole body responds with violent resistance. For this reason I personally will never be able to clear my hatred towards the terrorist regime and its military. The reason to state this is to clarify the reason of the outburst we have towards hearing the name of the place, where the terrorist regime is in power and the recent arguments I have put forth in the heatedly debated threads. I personally have nothing with those who has nothing to do with Islam and Muslims. Those who want peace, must have peace and those who want war must have war.
The head of the terrorist regime is being quoted as saying "Justice has been done". I say, you will see how real Justice is done on the Day of Judgement.
This hadith is meant for Muslims only, since no disbeliever or rejector of Faith in Allah سبحانه وتعالى and His Last Messenger صلى الله عليه و سلم will ever enter paradise. But that does not mean a Muslim can oppress a non-Muslim, the Muslim will still be accountable for him/herself for all the injustice (even towards non-Muslims) and laws that he/she might have broken.
America's so called war on terror has made our lives here on this side of the world hard and making it worse day by day. Our Government are nothing but pawns of the terrorist Regime sitting in a house which is white. In fact just yesterday I was talking to a brother, who has stopped coming to the mashjid for now because he is under pressure from the intelligence agencies and it is not just him but many others here are marked, stalked, etc. Any young guy with a beard is just suspicious. Imagine being in fear of going to the Mashjid in a country of so called more than 85% Muslims. Even though the terrorist regime is not directly oppressing us in the place I am residing now yet, but indirectly it is using our own government and inspiring it to take people away from Islam day by day and torture and harass those who give dawa of the true Laa Ilaha Illallah. Even youth who attend 5 times prayer in the Mashjid are marked, for being so called potential danger. This is just one issue I am mentioning here, which is only like a drop in the ocean. There are many more and this is just here, and the situation in Afghanistan, Iraq, etc are very clear to everyone. And mainly because Islam requires us to be like one body, if one part is hurt the whole body responds with violent resistance. For this reason I personally will never be able to clear my hatred towards the terrorist regime and its military. The reason to state this is to clarify the reason of the outburst we have towards hearing the name of the place, where the terrorist regime is in power and the recent arguments I have put forth in the heatedly debated threads. I personally have nothing with those who has nothing to do with Islam and Muslims. Those who want peace, must have peace and those who want war must have war.
The head of the terrorist regime is being quoted as saying "Justice has been done". I say, you will see how real Justice is done on the Day of Judgement.
:salam2: Brother,
Personally, I think it is deplorable that a person can not even worship as he pleases without being marked or stalked....it is especially deplorable when such actions take place in a country where the practice of such religion is commonplace.
I also agree that the looming of the presence of foreign troops does nothing but heighten fears and feelings that already exist.
Fear begets fear...
As for President Obama's comments....I don't know if he wrote the speech himself of a staff person wrote it bt he's human too and as such, is allowed mistakes. All of us will face Creator in the end.
My personal opinion is that so long as we try our best to be the best we can be with what little resources we have as people, we can only accept what Creator chooses for us.
Bawar
Struggling2Surrender
Hi JenGiove,
I am from Afghanistan and it hurts me and makes me feel sick how your country treats my people. You mentioned the job of your husband. Can you please tell him that an Afghan wanted to ask this question from him:
How do you justify the killings of Afghan civillians and the fear that they go through by seeing your soldiers, drones, tanks, armours, guns....every single day?
Thank you
I am from Afghanistan and it hurts me and makes me feel sick how your country treats my people. You mentioned the job of your husband. Can you please tell him that an Afghan wanted to ask this question from him:
How do you justify the killings of Afghan civillians and the fear that they go through by seeing your soldiers, drones, tanks, armours, guns....every single day?
Thank you
:salam2: Brother Bawar,
I can tell you from past discussions that he doesn't like the idea of civilians being afraid but this discussion is not about my husband, its about me and my actions and statements.
To clarify though, my husband has never fired a single weapon at a single person, EVER.
Asja
Pearl of Islaam
Assalamu allaicum wa raahmatullah wa baarkatuhu
I have only wanted to say to Jennifer for the sake of Allah that we Muslims do not kill innocent peoople niether something like that is aloowed, neither is accepted in Islaam, neither that is truth that Muslims in Palestine kill Jewish, except it is only in the case of deffense and Allah knows the best.
Allahs deen Islaam is teaching us that real Muslim do not kill even those who he he hate accept in defense or if justice is asking that, real Muslim does not opress others neither he humilate them, real Muslim does not backbit others, niether real Muslim hides the truth even it is word about himslefe or those close to him, niether he does injustice only in the case if justice is requaring that. Allah subhan wa teala sent His Last Messanger Mohammed salalhu alayha wa saalam with message of Islaam, to bring peace and gudiance to all mankind on both of Worlds.
May Allah subhan wa teala guide us all to the right path and guide other hearts toward Islaam. Ameen Ya Rabby ,The Only Guider of hearts.:tti_sister:
I have only wanted to say to Jennifer for the sake of Allah that we Muslims do not kill innocent peoople niether something like that is aloowed, neither is accepted in Islaam, neither that is truth that Muslims in Palestine kill Jewish, except it is only in the case of deffense and Allah knows the best.
Allahs deen Islaam is teaching us that real Muslim do not kill even those who he he hate accept in defense or if justice is asking that, real Muslim does not opress others neither he humilate them, real Muslim does not backbit others, niether real Muslim hides the truth even it is word about himslefe or those close to him, niether he does injustice only in the case if justice is requaring that. Allah subhan wa teala sent His Last Messanger Mohammed salalhu alayha wa saalam with message of Islaam, to bring peace and gudiance to all mankind on both of Worlds.
May Allah subhan wa teala guide us all to the right path and guide other hearts toward Islaam. Ameen Ya Rabby ,The Only Guider of hearts.:tti_sister:
:salam2:
Dear sister, First, you greet me too well but I thank you for the kindness. Since the greetings between Kaffir and Muslims relate to me, I've looked it up. Here is the fatwah pertaining to it.
http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/4975/salaam
Second, I agree that in the conflict between Israel and Palestine, any killing that Muslims do is purely out of self defense or other sanctioned motives. I was looking at the issue of killings between Kaffirs and Muslims as purely the ending of a life....one side being kaffir and one side being Muslim. In THAT sense, killing (death) occurs.
Yup...that's how I've learned it but there is a large percentage of time where it seems that those rules of conduct are not followed.
:tti_sister:
[/quote]
justoneofmillion
Junior Member
:salam2:The Muslim also knows the difference between being proud to serve Allah swt and changing your name from Mohamed to mo.Yes I am proud to serve the creator ,proud to have What The world would define as a Muslim Name,proud to wake up every morning and start with the prayer of the hopeful, to say Salam aleikum in Arabic to the German staff at my bank every time I get there and have us smile at each other, and to hold my wife with Hijab in the face of those who run around in miniskirts ,and I have the NON Muslim cute German Grandma telling me that we look good together.Why shouldn't I?
The sentence you uttered regarding the "apologies" was perceived in a different context from the one you intended maybe.Am not proud of myself but proud of Islam,proud of the Muslims I know who are the most amazing and kind people you can ever meet I won't have them be complexed am sorry. I have traveled and met many folks in my short life and I can tell you these are the good guys.Me too I lost both my parents at a very young age,And I have learned since then to fight and stand on my own with every power I possessed to find my place in the world and be confident enough of who I am.Alhamdulillah today I have achieved most of the things I was longing for.No matter how many closed doors I had in my face,no matter how many times I have felt deprived and sad when I saw a mother with her child or every time I visited a family friend by his parents and then had to return on my own to my house since the age of 15.How many Ramadan's and Eids I spent on my own.I have learned to kill that feeling, swallow the pettiness and sharpen my fists, my fondness for sarcasm is a good imagery of what one would describe as the smile through the tears or the sun ray through the rain,Darwin would call it a survival matter I guess.I did everything you can imagine to survive ,pay my studies and be who I am today .The only one who was on my side till this day, guided me an answered my prayers was Allah swt,and I will not adopt an apologetic attitude while serving him .
I would be a monster if I did not feel sorry for the losses of innocent Human life.For me it is so automatic no think that way, that I instinctively perceived your question as some kind of rhetorical attempt to entertain a sense of guilt in the general Muslim psyche.In the context the world is in today Muslims need to affirm their identity.We know who we are .We love who we are.We are no criminals,we are no thiefs or murderers,we want good for people ,we do not like to see them swallowed by the materialistic hype.I feel bad when I see a young anorexic girl, I think to myself what has become of this once probably beautiful baby?.I don't like to see divorced parents throwing slurs at each other and talking at each others back.I am tired of hearing every week on the news that such and such has committed suicide,I say to myself what amount suffering can cause such a surrender,such hopelessness? I wish they had the faith I had before it was too late.Yes I am tired to see fellow human beings being ripped off the blessing and the connection to their creator,deprived from their inherent request for the transcendent and awareness of accountability.Because the more I observe society's problems,the more I know about the world surrounding me ,the more I see it's solutions in the revealed text .
You would be surprised to hear me speak English.Once a dear brother of mine who is also a member at TTI(Brother Mohsin checkout his post) told me that he thought I was American after he spoke to me.,because I have an American accent when I speak English.I can speak most of the languages without accent, the only one I have difficulty with is the Briiiish sorry for the missing "Tees" I just Caaaaaaaaaaaaan't do it.You should hear me doing the Indian one I love it,the French one I would have to put a Hijab on to do it probably while speaking English, you know it sounds a little....And am not gonna do that.
So Gen ,no I do not hate you,I really don't, If it was the case I wouldn't take the time to respond to you,If there is one thing I would have a hard time "taking arms" against, it would be mothers.I don't logg in that often to TTI anymore due to lack of time.I know that you do not wish to speak to me and that's fine but I just wanted to let you know this.I don't have time to hate,the end of it will be a hole in the ground for all of us.What I would love to see from you now ,if I could have a humble request, is to start asking the right questions on Islam and stop beating around the bush about Fiqh matters.It is fine that you ask question about the great scholars and so on and so forth but I want you to understand things and express them with your own words coming from the heart,this is when you are at best from what I read.
What kinda doubt is stopping you from joining the crew?put your questions forward that are related to this,do a list of all the doubts you have,and We will be more than glad to answer extensively ,inshallah.
MutlekM
Junior Member
Salamz
I did not read all of the posts but just some. I will actually begin with the base of the discussion. there is more proof that the American government was behind 9/11 than there is for Muslim Extremist if there are any. According to Islam nobody can kill anybody if its not for defense and not in combat. As i heard once:
'When Omar entered Jerusalem victoriously, he visited the Holy Church. When the Muslims prayer was due, the Christian Patriarch asked him to perform his prayer in the church. But Omar refused, saying: “ I fear that once I have my prayer in this church, the coming generations of Muslims would say that in this place Omar had performed his prayer and therefore it has to be converted to a mosque. I want the church to remain a church.”'
I dont believe that there should be war between religion just whatever u believe is right follow it u will b judged on ur own on the day of Judgement. Just live in peace with others.
Peace
I did not read all of the posts but just some. I will actually begin with the base of the discussion. there is more proof that the American government was behind 9/11 than there is for Muslim Extremist if there are any. According to Islam nobody can kill anybody if its not for defense and not in combat. As i heard once:
'When Omar entered Jerusalem victoriously, he visited the Holy Church. When the Muslims prayer was due, the Christian Patriarch asked him to perform his prayer in the church. But Omar refused, saying: “ I fear that once I have my prayer in this church, the coming generations of Muslims would say that in this place Omar had performed his prayer and therefore it has to be converted to a mosque. I want the church to remain a church.”'
I dont believe that there should be war between religion just whatever u believe is right follow it u will b judged on ur own on the day of Judgement. Just live in peace with others.
Peace
I just wanted to make note of one thing (this is brisk) - the difference between kuffaar and kaafir is largly grammar. Kaafir is singular meaning one disbeliever and kuffar is plural meaning more than a couple. Their root words are the same, so estentially their meanings are the same, it's just the structure which alters the grammatical reference.
And if the title is inappropriate, then please tell me and I'll change it. I did this thinking it would be a good way to clear the air without derailing the thread.
And if the title is inappropriate, then please tell me and I'll change it. I did this thinking it would be a good way to clear the air without derailing the thread.