Jen's Concerns

[Asja]

:salam2:
Dear sister, First, you greet me too well but I thank you for the kindness. Since the greetings between Kaffir and Muslims relate to me, I've looked it up. Here is the fatwah pertaining to it.

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/4975/salaam

Second, I agree that in the conflict between Israel and Palestine, any killing that Muslims do is purely out of self defense or other sanctioned motives. I was looking at the issue of killings between Kaffirs and Muslims as purely the ending of a life....one side being kaffir and one side being Muslim. In THAT sense, killing (death) occurs.



Yup...that's how I've learned it but there is a large percentage of time where it seems that those rules of conduct are not followed.
:tti_sister:

Dear Jennifer if we Muslims are not aloowed to greet other non Muslims with our Islamic greeting " Assalamu Allaicum", it does not mean that we do not respect them Alhamdulillah, but we do greet them with thier greetings, because we are allowed to greet only Muslims with Islamic greeting,and Allah knows the best.

Yes, Alhamdulilah that is how Islam is teaching us. I make duas to Allah that He guides you to Islaam and you become Muslimah one day too with His help. Ameen summa ameen

 

[JenGiove]

Dear Jennifer if we Muslims are not aloowed to greet other non Muslims with our Islamic greeting " Assalamu Allaicum", it does not mean that we do not respect them Alhamdulillah, but we do greet them with thier greetings, because we are allowed to greet only Muslims with Islamic greeting,and Allah knows the best.

Yes, Alhamdulilah that is how Islam is teaching us. I make duas to Allah that He guides you to Islaam and you become Muslimah one day too with His help. Ameen summa ameen

:salam2:
Sister,

This is what I understand..that a Muslim is not to greet a non-Muslim FIRST with the greeting of "Asalaamu Alaikum" because the intention of the non-Muslim needs first to be ascertained..SECOND, and this is what I was trying to point out gently to you, is that according to the fatwah that I posted, a proper return of a greeting by a non-Muslim who uses "Asalaamu Alaikum" to a Muslim should only be "Wa alaikum". You returned my greeting originally as "Assalamu allaicum wa raahmatullah wa baarkatuhu" and THAT is reserved for Muslims. So, while I truly appreciate your greeting of peace AND Blessings, I wanted to make you aware of what I learned for your own benefit.

 

[Asja]

:salam2:
Sister,

This is what I understand..that a Muslim is not to greet a non-Muslim FIRST with the greeting of "Asalaamu Alaikum" because the intention of the non-Muslim needs first to be ascertained..SECOND, and this is what I was trying to point out gently to you, is that according to the fatwah that I posted, a proper return of a greeting by a non-Muslim who uses "Asalaamu Alaikum" to a Muslim should only be "Wa alaikum". You returned my greeting originally as "Assalamu allaicum wa raahmatullah wa baarkatuhu" and THAT is reserved for Muslims. So, while I truly appreciate your greeting of peace AND Blessings, I wanted to make you aware of what I learned for your own benefit.

Dear Jennifer, thank you for your kindness and your good intentions.

Alhamdulillah the fatwa you have shared with me was benefical and usefull for me,and you understood well from hadeeth that we Muslims should not greet first non Muslims,and if they greet us with Islamic greeting we answer them only with " We aleykum". And the reason for that is that " Assalamu allaicum" is the greeting of Muslims only and it will be aslo greeting of Muslims and belivers in Jannah Inshallah.

And I pray once again for you that Allah guide you to Islaam and open your heart toward better understanding of Islaam, because that is only accepted religion from Allah and it was sent to all mankinds like a guidance on both worlds. Ameen Ya Rabby

 

[Shak78]

One thing I think has gotten lost is the fact there is a large difference between your every day normal Americans and the Government. Not all Americans support the Government and should not be tarred with the injustices the government does. Just like all Muslims should not be tarred with those who commit acts of terror. To make a sweeping judgement of ANY group is wrong.

 

[Lena]

Salaam,

I don't post here often of fear of saying something that I have no knowledge of but I want to say one thing to you sister Jennifer. I don't know you but I respect your opinions and my only wish for you is May Allah guide you to the straight path. Ameen!

 

[abdul-aziz]

...
abdul-aziz said:

“She was commenting to someone who is not a muslim but married and knows real live muslims.”


I had no idea that Brother Idris was not a Muslim. Currently, there are:
83,839 Members
52,650 Threads
395,441 Posts
How is anyone supposed to know the life stories of every single member? Brother Idris has 990 posts since joining in 2008. How was I supposed to know that he was not a Muslim but married and knows real life Muslims?

Understood, but I wasn't referring to brother Idris. I made it vague for a purpose so as not to indicate the specific but to capture the reason on my statements. I really was not wanting to communicate in such a fashion, just was a bad day for me and I was quite upset the news got taken over for days while many people are getting slaughtered by oppressive regimes in the middle east and no reports of it took place because their were rampant celebrations.

Another thing, there are so many intelligent people here on tti, that know how to communicate with patience and quality information with respects to Islam. I suggest you use it to get a clear understanding of things. As you may speak to a muslim and their level of understanding might not be correct to the facts. One of the most difficult things is trying to port into English; ideas and concepts of Arabic. Alhamdulillah, there has always been people here who have knowledge of understanding in Arabic and English and are able to dedicate their time to answer them.

Now Quoting the Quran, this should be done with care, as their is quite a bit of learning that needs to take place before a person could do so. Because every wrong concept you bring forward saying it is from Allah and it's not; the punishment is very serious on the day of Judgement. Allah says some harsh scary words about this:

[Saheeh_International] Do you covet [the hope, O believers], that they would believe for you while a party of them used to hear the words of Allah and then distort the Torah after they had understood it while they were knowing? [2:75]

[Saheeh_International] And when they meet those who believe, they say, "We have believed"; but when they are alone with one another, they say, "Do you talk to them about what Allah has revealed to you so they can argue with you about it before your Lord?" Then will you not reason? [2:76]

[Saheeh_International] But do they not know that Allah knows what they conceal and what they declare?

[Saheeh_International] And among them are unlettered ones who do not know the Scripture except in wishful thinking, but they are only assuming.

[Saheeh_International] So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn. [2:79]

Having mentioned that, we all should take it for protection of ourselves because Allah will punish very severely for this and we don't know what damaged outcome can take place in a person's mind who will learn it as well.

Also you can't take 1 ayah that interests you and quote it, there are rules of grammar and context that must be obeyed. Why I say this, ayah 9:5 was quoted, about the killing of the polytheist of Mecca. Just quoting that ayah will not make sense, because who are we talking about? There is a great discussion by scholars on this surah, do you know it doesn't start with bismillah? Ayat 1 -6 of surat at-tawba (9) are grouped together. i can't get up and even pray reciting just ayah 9:5. No scholars would say it is acceptable because there are certain rules of recitation. So people speak on this ayah like they do with other texts, The quran is very different because it is very eloquent. The arabic language is very rich and mature been around for a very long time. So to the learned Muslims who knows these ayat it is clear.

[EDIT] for those who are interested in learning more about context grouping of ayat, there has been some very good work done by these good muslim brothers in English download the Contents.doc or Contents.pdf :from here
This will help you memorization since you could focus on a portion at a time and know the meaning and relative context.

have a nice day, and you are welcomed to ask anytime you want here on tti.

 

[justoneofmillion]

:salam2:Just to clarify things,because I know of the general mood here for having been around for more than 4 years (no offense meant just don't wanna be misunderstood due to lack of detail). when I say Salaam Aleikum,at my bank I say it to a Turkish old school friend of mine, all the others are employees are non Muslim.Still they answer back because they hear as I say it fairly loud, it has become sort of a game, and there is no poison(As Saam) involved. We smile at each other because they know me and I know them as well.I don't go around saying Assalamu Aleikum to every person I don't know.I usually say either Good morning ,good evening or have a good day ,I greet my neighbors and people I know like people do.Am a joyful person but not crazy.One has to wear his faith relaxed ,with confidence,hope and joy.

The prophet Aleihi sallat wassalaam used to smile like no other,he was not closed minded, he was easy going and welcoming , inclined towards forgiveness and peace a lot of Sahih hadeeth testify to that.There is no need to be paranoid and too rigid .I have met so many like that who have turned to the complete opposite , may Allah guide and have mercy on them.

I had begun writing something about of one of the posts I have read on this thread.An analytical,historical and philosophical critic as to the approach towards religion that I perceive to be problematic and contra productive nowadays in both the western and Muslim Psyche to a certain extent ,Just some thoughts with some Quraan quotes..I Don't have time right now .When I do I will finish it, and if I can and feel in the mood I will post it,inshallah. I have lost the habit of chatting on the Internet like before. Am too busy and when I get here I get lazy most of the time to go through my notes and contribute the way I want as to the issues I find deserve some commitment, because am usually tired from either work or Gym and laying on the bed to type,on the weekend I just don't want to think a lot.

May Allah swt bless you all.

 

[JenGiove]

Understood, but I wasn't referring to brother Idris. I made it vague for a purpose so as not to indicate the specific but to capture the reason on my statements.

abdul-aziz, allow me to quote you:

you know why I said what I said, can't stand an instigator. She was commenting to someone who is not a muslim but married and knows real live muslims. Now I have seen this person this forum and almost never post or respond to information by this person.

I ask, in what way was this not in reference to me? "instigator", "She was commenting to..", "I have seen this person..", "by this person".

I really would not like to continue either. Just don't like it when someone is trying to learn and someone else has a deep rooted islamophobe statement comes out. They know good and well the internet is abundantly full of varying ideas of subjects, but here on tti, it's Quran and Sunnah and that is what Islam is all about.

Now normally I would quote a few hadith and some quran to prove this statement is not true. I feel it is not necessary because it's one thing to learn and it's another thing to just throw delusional statements.

Again, this is not in reference to me? "and someone else has a deep rooted islamophobe statement..", "They know good and well..", "its another thing to just throw delusional statements.".

I really was not wanting to communicate in such a fashion, just was a bad day for me and I was quite upset the news got taken over for days while many people are getting slaughtered by oppressive regimes in the middle east and no reports of it took place because their were rampant celebrations.

We've all had bad days so I can understand that and inshallah your day got better but am I not allowed to get defensive in the face of such blatant insults?

As for the news, what else did you expect in a country who was so affected by an event? There is limited amount of time allotted to news coverage and so the focus here in the states is going to be towards things that are the newest event, be it the uprisings in Egypt, the revolt in Libya, updates on Israels/Palestine. Just as we learn what applies to us the most first, so to we here the news that applies to us directly first.

Now Quoting the Quran, this should be done with care, as their is quite a bit of learning that needs to take place before a person could do so.

Was this directed at me or was this a general statement? If it was directed at my quotes then please instruct me as to how I misused verses from the Qu'ran because when I used them, I gave the sources as to where I found them...be it from another member here or from a publication. Whenever I gave an interpretation of a hadeeth, I made sure to note that it was my interpretation and not a fact. I'm not a scholar and nor do I claim to be one.

There is a great discussion by scholars on this surah, do you know it doesn't start with bismillah?

I don't know what you mean by this. Please explain the significance of the Surah not beginning with Bismillah.

you are welcomed to ask anytime you want here on tti.

Any questions or concerns I have I bring them to members who's opinions and intentions I trust. Would you ask a person who has shown dislike of you a question about something they may know about? No. You would goto someone you trust who would kindly and gently and patiently explain it to you. Someone who would not view you as being stupid or ignorant. Someone you would not feel humiliated asking questions to. You wouldn't expose yourself to possible ridicule like that and neither will I.

 

[Bawar]

Hello JenGiove,

Thank you for your reply. I appreciate that you want to point out other's shortcomings, but I think it would be good to start from home. Don't you think it would be wise if you ask your husband to withdraw from supporting the millitary that is busy killing civillians in my country?

I will believe that your husband has not fired a bullet, but he provides support for those who do fire missiles and drop bobms. Does it not bother you that your husband is using his skills and energy supporting aggression and occupation?

 

[MohammedMaksudul]

:salam2:

Those who support oppression is same as the one who oppresses.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

I am wondering where this is going. I do not wish to cause fitna but this leading nowhere.

 

[JenGiove]

Hello JenGiove,

Thank you for your reply. I appreciate that you want to point out other's shortcomings, but I think it would be good to start from home.

Asalaamu Alaikum Brother Bawar,

It is not my intention to "point out other's shortcomings" because as it teaches in Islam, we are to "cover each others sins". If I learn something and then find something that runs contrary to those teachings, I point them out. I do not want any of my brothers and sisters to stray from the path that has been set before them. I want only to support, encourage and if needed, remind. I have found in my life that sometimes, the basics of a learning are sometimes forgotten while a person is in the middle of a greater learning. I am at the beginning or a learning so they are more present to my attention and the unintended deviation from those teachings are more pronounced to me than they might be for someone else. If my presence and childlike "finger pointing" is a tool for you to use to reenforce once again those basic teachings, then how wonderful! Excuse me for being a bit selfish but I choose to learn from only the best examples.

Don't you think it would be wise if you ask your husband to withdraw from supporting the millitary that is busy killing civillians in my country?

The joint forces that are in your country are not purposely aiming for civilians and each death of one affects each soldier for the rest of their lives. They don't want to kill civilians but they also don't want to get killed themselves. Sometimes it can be difficult to distinguish a true civilian and a person who is dressed as a civilian but is in truth,not. How are they supposed to handle situations like that?

I am not trying to diminish the loss of any innocent and I know that living in a war zone has got to be the worst experience imaginable. I wish all the wars could stop and everyone just go on their merry way and ignore the barriers such as race, creed, color, religion and view everyone as just a human being with different views. A flower is not a complete flower when some of it's petals are missing.

I will believe that your husband has not fired a bullet, but he provides support for those who do fire missiles and drop bobms. Does it not bother you that your husband is using his skills and energy supporting aggression and occupation?

My husband should not be the focus of this discussion. What he chooses to do with his life is his own business and it is improper for you to continue to try and discuss him.

Please cease trying to draw me into a conversation about my spouse.

 

[Bawar]

Wa alaike Sister JenGiove

Honestly speaking, I don't even like to take part in such discussions, but when I see one sided approach and deliberate ignorance of open facts while defenceless people in my country get killed in big numbers, that pushes me to point out the facts.

The fact is the blood of Afghans is no cheaper than the blood of Americans. 9/11 happened 10 years ago and people still talk about it, while my brothers and sisters have been getting killed for the last 10 years for no fault of their own. We have not invaded any country. We have not committed any terrorist activities. Why has our country been occupied and for how long?

Your spouse is not the focus of my discussion. It is all those who are involved in continued occupation of my country, who are responsible in dropping bombs on my country and all those who support and sponsor them.
When you brought up the occupation of your spouse in one of your posts, I wanted to know about your mental voice about the continued occupation and ongoing atrocities committed against my people while you try to interpret the mental voice of Bin Laden. Surely you would ask me the same if for the sake of argument, Afghan troops were occupying America and killing its people.

You would have the right to ask me, why did we occupy you?
Why do we kill you?

Do you think the excuse that, nobody wants to deliberately target civillians, but they all look the same would be acceptable to you?

Would it not be nice of you as a decent human to ask your government to please leave us alone rather than to justify their crimes?

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Brother there are millions of Americans who are questioning the government. The Zionist media does not show you. The alternative media and websites have had a surge of membership. You know on the day of the announcement of the 100th death of Bin Laden one of my favorite sites was hacked.
Every stroke I use is being monitored.

The Zionists have the map and they have shown it to the world. They want all the land. They make no bones about it. They use the blood of the goyem American to do the dirty work.

It is up to us to educate the ignorant on the plan. Henry Kissinger made it very clear. Men like Ron Paul think. The media will not cover him. He thinks too much.

The history books are written by those who match historical events to fit their agenda. We have to take the time to teach the truth. Insha'Allah, some will see the light.

 

[Abu Talib]

Assalamu`alaykum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatu


Bro Bawar lets hope Obama sticks to his words of withdrawing his troops from July. He keeps sending reinforcements every time they die. Its funny when they said recent surge in troops witnessed less attack from Taliban but also increased violence.

 

[Perseveranze]

Wa alaike Sister JenGiove

Honestly speaking, I don't even like to take part in such discussions, but when I see one sided approach and deliberate ignorance of open facts while defenceless people in my country get killed in big numbers, that pushes me to point out the facts.

The fact is the blood of Afghans is no cheaper than the blood of Americans. 9/11 happened 10 years ago and people still talk about it, while my brothers and sisters have been getting killed for the last 10 years for no fault of their own. We have not invaded any country. We have not committed any terrorist activities. Why has our country been occupied and for how long?

Your spouse is not the focus of my discussion. It is all those who are involved in continued occupation of my country, who are responsible in dropping bombs on my country and all those who support and sponsor them.
When you brought up the occupation of your spouse in one of your posts, I wanted to know about your mental voice about the continued occupation and ongoing atrocities committed against my people while you try to interpret the mental voice of Bin Laden. Surely you would ask me the same if for the sake of argument, Afghan troops were occupying America and killing its people.

You would have the right to ask me, why did we occupy you?
Why do we kill you?

Do you think the excuse that, nobody wants to deliberately target civillians, but they all look the same would be acceptable to you?

Would it not be nice of you as a decent human to ask your government to please leave us alone rather than to justify their crimes?

What can she do... And your talking about civilian targetting lol, what about the worser things like rape and prostitution. Where they get Iraqi/Afghan girls to be prostitutes? One is caught on tape admitting it, saying he made a certain amount of money before the girl commited suicide. Can you imagine that? That's worst then dying. So many of these cases go unreported, unheard and unknown, that's whats more worrying. What about those innocent Afghans who can't speak a word of english that are pinned a blame for something they did not do? Then they have to go through aweful torture and interogation, by the time they let them go all broken inside, they return to no house, no family. Their sisters raped, fathers killed, children/wives killed.

It's these people that turn around and want to kill any and every Kaafir that they can find, innocent or not. And I certainly can't blame them, even though I know it's against Islam, it's hard to imagine being in their shoes.

Mujahedeen will win Inshallah and Kuffar will one day go back to their own lands. Don't believe that every innocent blood spilled and every injustice done won't be repaid back, God is just.

But pray, that this Ummah treads on a rightious path and is not lead astray by Shaytan.

 

[saifkhan]

The fact is the blood of Afghans is no cheaper than the blood of Americans.

I'd like to say here, rather valuable than the Americans, as our's is Muslim blood.
and we got to save our brothers and their dignity at any cost.

my statement is not for like: we can kill any non muslim or shed non-Muslim blood, don't get me wrong.
But if anyone rage a war against another, they should be prepared for the backlash also.

JazakAllah khair brother

wa-llahu A'lam
wassalam

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

I believe I am responding to a thread entitled Jen's Concerns. And wow I walked into a hot TTI session. Let's slow it down a little. This sister needs to ease it up.

OK..JenGiov..please allow me to use an illustration to answer your concerns.

You are walking down a path. You notice a light. You walk towards that light.
You see a mansion. You hear what sounds like music. You walk closer and smell the garden. You are at the gate and you see people. It is like a party.
You are delighted by the sounds and smells. You are relaxed and all your anxiety disappears.
You are able to listen to the conversations some are having. Some are discussing legal issues, some are in the midst of social and economical commentary. Some are debating the moral/ethical issues of today and how the answers are found in the Quran. Others are discussing practical issues.
Some of the conversation hurts you. Ideas are being tossed around. A new way of thinking has been shown to you.
But there is something here. Something so strong that you can not leave.

This is TTI. And we are the brothers and sisters who are bold enough to write on this forum. We are diverse. We are international. We are learned and we are students. We are trying to do the right. And what makes it so simple is when we hear the call to prayer..we will run in unison.

So always feel welcome.

 

[sister herb]

Something so strong that you can not leave.

Very well said.

 

[samiha]

The joint forces that are in your country are not purposely aiming for civilians and each death of one affects each soldier for the rest of their lives. They don't want to kill civilians but they also don't want to get killed themselves. Sometimes it can be difficult to distinguish a true civilian and a person who is dressed as a civilian but is in truth,not. How are they supposed to handle situations like that?

That is unfortunately not quite the case many times. Please listen to the following:

[yt]qsnZ1BFchfE[/yt]

There are countless cases where civilians have been purposely aimed at and targeted. These are war crimes, but they are sanctioned and not persecuted. His case is not alone and it was in fact in 2008 ... years earlier, and I'm sure it hasn't been the last. It's easier not having that idealisitic view of the Army actually, it just leaves room to be disappointed.

If you want to hear more you can google/youtube "Iraq Veterans against the war".

Self-defense is one thing, but indiscriminate killing in the guise of it is quite another.