Marriage without a wali for the girl || Hanafi fiqh

Discussion in 'TurnToIslam Lounge !' started by slaveofAllah88, Nov 6, 2012.

  1. slaveofAllah88
    No Mood
    Offline

    slaveofAllah88 Slave of Allah (swt)

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    4,129
    Likes Received:
    46
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Slave of Allah
    Ratings Received:
    +67 / 0
    aslam o aliakum wa rahamatuAllahi wa barakatuhu,

    Please unless you are a scholar in fiqh don't start a debate here

    There is a misconception among people, that in hanafi fiqh a girl can marry without a wali, and this thing is used in wrong ways among people. InshAllah im posting this so people can clear this misconception inshAllah

    PS: im not a scholar so please don't ask me questions on this


  2. Ershad
    Offline

    Ershad Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    946
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Student
    Ratings Received:
    +28 / 0
    Wa'alaykkum Assalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu,

    I cannot help you regarding the issue. However, I highly doubt the reliability of source i.e. Qibla. The owner of the site: "Shaykh" Nuh Kellar is known to have beliefs of Ashʿariyyah. He also belongs to some Sufi Tariqah. If you go through their biographies in the same site, they have had training from some sufi master.

    You can read what he calls for here - http://www.asharis.com/creed/assets/docs/nuh-keller-deception.pdf

    Dr. Saleh-us-Saleh also mentioned this person's several deviant beliefs in his book - http://www.calgaryislam.com/articles/islaamic/bidaah-innovations/287-the-dispraise-of-al-hawaa.html .

    I would request some moderator to take a look at the website. I highly doubt if they would approve posting that link.
  3. slaveofAllah88
    No Mood
    Offline

    slaveofAllah88 Slave of Allah (swt)

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    4,129
    Likes Received:
    46
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Slave of Allah
    Ratings Received:
    +67 / 0

    aslam o alaikum wr wb

    akhi im not sure about the website or its owner, but the content was the one i was trying to share, in my country alot of people have the belief that hanafi fiqh says that girl can marry without wali permission so that is something many people act upon without take into account, the islam really says. So that was the point, and this was verified by one brother who is studying hanafi fiqh and this is a reference that should be luked at
    "(Radd al-Muhtar ala ‘l-Durr al-Mukhtar 3/56-57 & I’la al-Sunan 11/69"

    inshallah thats the point i want to get across, don't endorse anything from the website and yes i know Asharis have many deviant believes
  4. islamerica
    Offline

    islamerica 1 Ummah under God

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2011
    Messages:
    475
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Gender:
    Female
    Ratings Received:
    +42 / 0
    It is not permissible for a man to marry a woman without the permission of her guardian, whether she is a virgin or previously-married. This is the view of the majority of scholars, including al-Shaafa’i, Maalik and Ahmad. This is based on evidence which includes the following:

    The verses in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “do not prevent them from marrying their (former) husbands” [al-Baqarah 2:232]
    “And do not marry Al-Mushrikaat (idolatresses) till they believe (worship Allaah Alone)” [al-Baqarah 2:221]
    “and marry those among you who are single” [al-Noor 24:32]

    The point here is that these verses clearly stipulate that there be a guardian in marriage, because Allaah is addressing the guardian with regard to the marriage of the woman under his care. If the matter were up to her and not him, there would be no need to address him.

    It doesn't matter what mahdab one is from, the most important thing is to look at the Quran and Sunnah as the main source, Even the 4 imams said leave what they said if you found evidence contrary to that.

    It was narrated that Abu Moosa said: The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There is no marriage without a guardian.”
    (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1101; Abu Dawood, 2085; Ibn Maajah, 1881. Classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani (may Allaah have mercy on him) in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi, 1/318)
  5. hayat84
    Spaced
    Offline

    hayat84 I'm not what you believe

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,096
    Likes Received:
    70
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    housewife,Islam-spreader
    Location:
    Italy
    Ratings Received:
    +169 / 4
    salam 'alikum,I've got married in Morocco,I grew up with only the limits my oarents gave me.when I left my home I was free to choose.when I married my husband there was no wali for me,I reverted to Islam not because of marriage,but because of love for Allah.the only withness was my husband's aunt.we celebrated all this at the office of the mayor.it wasn't a religious marriage,but I remeber that the mayor made me recite some surats of Quran,whose meaning I at first didn't understand.but the act of marriage was validate from many authorities of morocco.it's strange that without a guardian a girl can't get married.forgive me,if maybe I've misunderstood the topic
  6. slaveofAllah88
    No Mood
    Offline

    slaveofAllah88 Slave of Allah (swt)

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    4,129
    Likes Received:
    46
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Slave of Allah
    Ratings Received:
    +67 / 0
    aslam o aliakum wr wb

    Ukhti u should talk to a sheikh about that, cause a wali is important for marriage
  7. hayat84
    Spaced
    Offline

    hayat84 I'm not what you believe

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,096
    Likes Received:
    70
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    housewife,Islam-spreader
    Location:
    Italy
    Ratings Received:
    +169 / 4
    brother you're making me fear.and if my marriage is not valid?we followed a long iter to reach the marriage.Police,consolato,judge,mayor.it took a month of legalizations and translations.it was made me some questions about my life and if I was marring for love and not for other reasons.
  8. sister herb
    Sweettooth
    Offline

    sister herb Official TTI Chef

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,225
    Likes Received:
    625
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Gender:
    Female
    Ratings Received:
    +1,353 / 30
    Salam alaykum

    I understand very well situation of sister hayat84. Saying as "It is not permissible for a man to marry a woman without the permission of her guardian" is absurd to sisters living in countries where women hasn´t "guardian", when reverts come from families what are non-muslim. I would be in similar situation. Is my Christian father my guard? He doesn´t understand kind of idea at all. To him I am adult woman who makes decisions without his permit.

    I will ask this questions from my friends, some of them are scholars.
  9. hayat84
    Spaced
    Offline

    hayat84 I'm not what you believe

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,096
    Likes Received:
    70
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    housewife,Islam-spreader
    Location:
    Italy
    Ratings Received:
    +169 / 4
    thank you sister,I left the old life,repented for my sisns,I hope it's enough.the only one man who said the word "ok"for our marriage was the judge in person.he allowed us to marry each other
  10. sister herb
    Sweettooth
    Offline

    sister herb Official TTI Chef

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,225
    Likes Received:
    625
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Gender:
    Female
    Ratings Received:
    +1,353 / 30
    Salam alaykum

    Don´t be worry dear. And remember that Allah is the most mercifull to us.

    *hugs*
  11. Hajjerr
    Spaced
    Offline

    Hajjerr He is Dhul-Jalali Wal-Ikram

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,214
    Likes Received:
    133
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Doing my best.
    Location:
    Europe
    Ratings Received:
    +264 / 3
    Salam aleikum

    Revert sisters also need a wali, at my marriage the imam, as the trust worthy and good character figure in the masjid, was my wali. Alhamdulillah.

    There is a link on islam qa about it, i read but i cannot post now, i am sorry.
  12. Aapa
    Offline

    Aapa Mirajmom

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,991
    Likes Received:
    71
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Gender:
    Female
    Ratings Received:
    +150 / 12
    Assalaam alaikum,

    The sharia judge or imam can act as a wali on behalf of the sister.
  13. sister herb
    Sweettooth
    Offline

    sister herb Official TTI Chef

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,225
    Likes Received:
    625
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Gender:
    Female
    Ratings Received:
    +1,353 / 30
    Salam alaykum

    When I married I didn´t do it in mosque. May Allah be mercifull to me and my late husband. I am sure he knew how to behave in marriage as he was born muslims, I just revert without similar knowledge.

    :hijabi:
  14. slaveofAllah88
    No Mood
    Offline

    slaveofAllah88 Slave of Allah (swt)

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    4,129
    Likes Received:
    46
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Slave of Allah
    Ratings Received:
    +67 / 0
    aslam o aliakum

    Sister, you shouldn't worry, but instead try to consult a scholar even the local imam as soon as possible, reason being its better to be sure on these issue, then again i shouldn't be saying anything on this matter cause i am merely a layman

    Allah (swt) knows your intention inshAllah but its our responsible to fulfil the rights of islam
  15. sister herb
    Sweettooth
    Offline

    sister herb Official TTI Chef

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,225
    Likes Received:
    625
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Gender:
    Female
    Ratings Received:
    +1,353 / 30
    Salam alaykum

    Thanks about your kindly advice, brother. Hopely it will helps sister. Even better talk with imam than listening random ideas from common members in forums.
  16. slaveofAllah88
    No Mood
    Offline

    slaveofAllah88 Slave of Allah (swt)

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    4,129
    Likes Received:
    46
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Slave of Allah
    Ratings Received:
    +67 / 0
    walaikum salam wr wb

    exactly, who are we ? we are layman ourselves you should seek a scholar for your particular issue inshAllah
    our duas and well wishes are with u
  17. islamerica
    Offline

    islamerica 1 Ummah under God

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2011
    Messages:
    475
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Gender:
    Female
    Ratings Received:
    +42 / 0
    You are saying Islamic law and ways is "absurd"? I would be careful in how and what you say about things regarding Islam. It may seem trivial to us but may be very grave in the eyes of Allah. Allah has put men in charge of their women as guardians and protectors. If there sisters who have no mahram, the imam can act as a mahram and marry her off. Nothing is impossible, it just has a set of rules and guidelines who should not neglect or ridicule because we lack enough knowledge to understand it.


    Here's what Scholars say on this:

    If there is a Muslim with some authority in your area over the affairs of the Muslim community, then he can act in this capacity, based on the Prophet's (peace be upon him) hadeeth:

    "No marriage contract can be concluded without the presence of a Wali. A Sultan (authority figure) can act as a Wali for those without one." (see Ibn Majah and Imam Ahmad, Hadith number 1880; also in Salih al-Jaami', hadeeth number 7556.)

    If there is no authoritative Muslim person, then one should refer to the community Muslim leader or any Muslim who is just ('aadil), respected, and of high character, such as the director of the Islamic center or its imam, to conclude the marriage contract of this sister, with her consent.




    Being a born Muslim does not guarantee he or she knows what they are talking about. How many born Christians actually know about their religion? We are not born with the knowledge inside us nor is our culture and upbringing all that Islamic. whether we learn it as adults or were raised islamically from a young age, We all have to be taught about Islam.



    It is hoped that inshallah one of the people in charge acted as your wali when you were married. One important thing to remember is that there is no sin on one who did not know. At the same time it is also important to talk to an imam or scholar, explaining your situation. Inshallah best case scenario is you'll be fine and worst is they'll have you redo your nikkah contract.
  18. sister herb
    Sweettooth
    Offline

    sister herb Official TTI Chef

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,225
    Likes Received:
    625
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Gender:
    Female
    Ratings Received:
    +1,353 / 30
    Salam alaykum

    I don´t think I need help from scholar in kind of issue right now by my marriage. My husband died years ago.

    May Allah be mercy to him. But thanks anyway.
  19. sister herb
    Sweettooth
    Offline

    sister herb Official TTI Chef

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,225
    Likes Received:
    625
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Gender:
    Female
    Ratings Received:
    +1,353 / 30
    Salam alaykum

    Dear islamerica;

    I didn´t call islamic laws absurd, just described situation in the sisters from non-islamic families absurd in kind of "wali matter". No need to be so judgemental to people whose might disagree with you.

    All the best to you sister.
  20. islamerica
    Offline

    islamerica 1 Ummah under God

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2011
    Messages:
    475
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Gender:
    Female
    Ratings Received:
    +42 / 0
    Wa'alaykum as-salaam dear sister,

    you had stated [Saying as "It is not permissible for a man to marry a woman without the permission of her guardian" is absurd... ] gives the impression that you are calling the whole idea of " not giving permission" to marry without wali is absurd. I just wanted to point out we should be careful in calling islamic matters "absurd", this "wali matter" is this way because Allah ordained it.

Share This Page