Marriage without a wali for the girl || Hanafi fiqh

slaveofAllah88

Slave of Allah (swt)
aslam o aliakum wa rahamatuAllahi wa barakatuhu,

Please unless you are a scholar in fiqh don't start a debate here

There is a misconception among people, that in hanafi fiqh a girl can marry without a wali, and this thing is used in wrong ways among people. InshAllah im posting this so people can clear this misconception inshAllah

PS: im not a scholar so please don't ask me questions on this


Qibla > Answers > Marriage, Family & Divorce > Marriage > Validity of marriage without a nikah

Question ID:13657

Validity of marriage without a nikah
Answered by Sidi Salman Younas

Question:
My question is regards to the hanafi fiqh saying that a marriage without the girls wali (as long as the husband to be is kuf) is valid. What evidence from Authentic Hadeeths and Qur'an is there to support this that Imam Abu Hanifa found? I have the belief there is nothing wrong with following a Madhab as long as you always follow the strongest evidence which comes from the Quran and Sunnah, even if it means the more stronger opinion is from a different school of thought. So why is it that you yourselves say that the Hanafi School of thought is the only one that says a nikah is valid without the presence and consent of her Wali? The following is the evidence i have read supporting why a nikah isn't valid without the presence and permission of the muslimah's Wali: If a woman gets married without the consent of her wali (guardian), her marriage is invalid and is not valid even if ten years have passed and even if they have children. It is essential to repeat the marriage contract after her guardian’s approval is obtained, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There is no valid marriage without a wali and two witnesses.” (Narrated by Ahmad and the authors of Sunan except al-Nasaa’i. See Saheeh al-Jaami’, 7558). The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “A woman should not arrange another woman’s marriage and a woman should not arrange her own marriage, for the zaaniyah (adulteress) is the one who arranges her own marriage.” (Narrated by Ibn Maajah, 1782; see also Saheeh al-Jaami’, 7298). The verses in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “do not prevent them from marrying their (former) husbands” (al-Baqarah 2:232) “And do not marry Al-Mushrikaat (idolatresses) till they believe (worship Allaah Alone)” (al-Baqarah 2:221) “and marry those among you who are single” (al-Noor 24:32) The point here is that these verses clearly stipulate that there be a guardian in marriage, because Allaah is addressing the guardian with regard to the marriage of the woman under his care. If the matter were up to her and not him, there would be no need to address him. It was narrated that Abu Moosa said: The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There is no marriage without a guardian.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1101; Abu Dawood, 2085; Ibn Maajah, 1881. In Saheeh al-Tirmidhi, 1/318 was narrated that ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: Any woman who gets married without the permission of her guardian, her marriage is invalid, her marriage is invalid, her marriage is invalid. But if the marriage is consummated then the mahr is hers because she has allowed him to be intimate with her. If they dispute, then the ruler is the guardian of the one who has no guardian.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1102; Abu Dawood, 2083; Ibn Maajah, 1879. Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Irwa’ al-Ghaleel, 1840) I'm assuming that the other three Schools of thought go along with this evidence and perhaps more which is why they do not accept that a nikah without a wali is valid. You're opinion and evidences for the "Hanafi" opinion on this will be much related. Please forgive me, i am not trying to be a scholar, I know that You have studied in Islam in great depth, i am genuinley interested in how the majority of people will say one thing and the others wont agree

Answer:

salamu `alaykum

I pray you are well and in the best of health.

The underlying reason behind the emergence of differing opinions among the schools of law is due to the different methodological approaches each school employs to derive rulings. How are texts looked at, understood, what they indicate, imply, point to and so forth are questions that the scholars differ upon, since the primary sources are not always decisively clear-cut in their transmission and meaning. Yet, it is agreed upon within Sunni Islam - by consensus - that the interpretative methodology of all four schools is sound and one may follow any one of the four schools he or she wishes. This is a crucial point to take note of, and respecting the positions conveyed by the four accepted schools of law as valid and followable is essential whether one understands the proof or legal reasoning behind them or not.

With that said, one must first understand how Hanafi methodology operates in order to understand the reasoning behind certain positions. A key feature of Hanafi usul is that it gives precedence to the decisive texts (qati`i) over those that are probabalistic (dhanni) in nature, and understand the latter in light of the former. For example, according to the school the minimum obligatory recitation in prayer is one verse in two rakahs of the obligatory prayer, and in each rakah of the non-obligatory prayers. The reason for this is due to the Qur’anic stipulation:

“Recite that which is easy for you of the Qur’an.”

Here, within the verse, the particle maa is `aam i.e. it is a general expression. In the Hanafi School the general expressions of the Qur'an are decisive in their indication (qati` al dalala) unless decisively conditioned. Thus, when Allah says “recite that which is easy” what is meant is “recite anything that is easy” and "anything" of the Qur’an is any extent that would be minimally considered the Qur’an, namely a verse. The hadith commanding the recitation of the fatiha and a surah are not at the same level of decisiveness but are khabar wahid (lone-narrated reports), which cannot condition and specify (takhsis) the general purport of the Qur'an. Thus, the Hanafis consider the recitation of the fatiha to be at the level of wajib, not fardh - understanding its proofs in light of those that are decisive. Such an approach of placing evidences side by side - the qati`i and the dhanni - is central to the Hanafi school. (Usul al Shashi, pg: 39 ed. Kutub Khana Mazhari)

In light of the methodological framework defined above, it is possible to explain the Hanafi position on marriage (nikah) and the condition of a guardian (wali). This, though, also requires some prelimary remarks pertaining to women and their legal status and rights. It should be known that the Qur'an and sunna, both, decisively establish a woman as a full legal person who has rights over her own transactions, property, wealth and so forth. For example, the Qur'an states "Oh you who believe! When you deal with each other in transactions..." (2:282), addressing both men and women, "If you find them of sound mine then deliver over to them their fortune" (4:6), the numerous prophetic narrations commanding women to give their wealth in charity of their own accord, prohibit men from usurping their property, and so on all show the independent authority of women pertaining to such aspects. This is the position of the all four imams, as stated by Ibn Qudama in his al Mughni. (Also see al Mawsu`at al Fiqhiyya, section on al hajr)

Similarly, the nikah is also considered a contract (`aqd), according to the usage of the fuqaha - similar to other financial contracts (`uqud maliyat) (Kanz al Daqa'iq, Pg: 285 Ed. Dar al Isha`at; Fath al Qadir, kitab al nikah) This is true even according to the Shafi`i school, as defined by Imam Nawawi in his Al Minhaj. Thus, one will find commonalities between the sales contract (`aqd al baya`) and the marriage contract such as the integrals of offer and acceptance, the existence of two transacting parties, rulings related to contractual conditions, and so forth. According to the Hanafis, since marriage is a kind of contractual transaction and women have the full right to engage in transactions they also have the full right to engage themselves in marriage, on the condition that they are sane (`aqil) and have reached adulthood (baligh). The basic principle here is "one who has the right of disposal over his/her wealth has the right over his/her self, and one who does not [s: have such right over his wealth], does not [s: have such rights over his self]." (Durr al Mukhtar vol:2, pg: 209 ed. H.M Saeed) Since a sane, adult woman has the right of disposal over her wealth she also excercises such guardianship over her self and can therefore marry without the permission of her guardian and nor can her guardian force her into a marriage, even if she is a virgin - contrary to the position of the Shafi`i school.

This is also established decisively by the Qur'an itself in the following verses:

(1) Allah Most High states, "When you divorce women, and they have reached their term, do not forbid them from marrying (yankihna) their husbands, when they have agreed together honourably." (2: 232).

Imam Jassas states in his brilliant work Ahkam al Qur'an, "And His, Most Highs, saying, 'do not forbid them' means do not prohibit them or do not place constraint upon them in marrying. Verily, in this verse is a clear indication of the validity of marriage when she contracts it herself, without a guardian or the permission of her guardian. Firstly, because the annexing of the contract [s: the marriage contract] is towards her without conditioning it with the guardians permission. Secondly, It prohibits [s: the guardian, former husband, and all others] from forbidding when the marriage partners reach mutual agreement." (surah al baqarah, bab al nikah bighayr wali)

Those who state that the prohibition of forbidding the woman from remarrying is only an address to the ex-husband are not correct. As Imam Jassas states, it is permitted to take the verse on its general and apply such prohibition to the guardian, ex-husband, and all of people.

(2) Allah Most High states, "If he has divorced her, then she is not lawful to him until she marries (hatta tankiha) another man," (2:230) wherein the act of marrying (tankiha) is connected (isnad) specifically to the woman and not conjoined (mushtarak) to both the woman and her guardian. Similarly, Allah states, "Those of you who die, leaving wives, they shall wait by themselves for four months and ten nights; when they have reached their term then it is no fault in you what they may do with themselves honourably (fa`alna fi anfusihina)." (2:234) Imam Jassas comments, "And her action [of marrying] is permitted for herself (fi nafsiha) without the condition of a guardian."

To summarise the above:

(a) All these verses are general in their purport,
(b) Hanafi methodology dictates that the general expressions of the Qur'an are decisive in what they indictate. Here, the generality of the verses clearly permit women to marry themselves off and connect the act of marrying to the woman,
(c) None of them condition the above with the consent or permission of a guardian.

Further, there is also proof in hadith literature for this and even clear incidents wherein the marriage of a woman was performed without the presence of her guardian:

(1) It is narrated in the Muwatta of Imam Malik, in a rigorously authentic narration (sahih), that a woman came to the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) and gave herself in marriage. The Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) married her to one of his companions. There was no wali of the woman present in this situation.

(2) It is narrated by Imam Tahawi that Sayyidah `A'isha (Allah be well pleased with her) married her niece Hafsa bint `Abd Al Rahman to Munzar ibn Zubayr while `Abd Al Rahman (Hafsa's father) was away in Syria. (Sharh Ma`ani al Athar, bab al nikah bighayr wali `asabatin) Ibn Hajar `Asqalani states in his al Diraya that its chain is rigorously authentic (sahih). This is a clear indication of the validity of the marriage of a sane, adult female without the presence of her guardian.

(3) It is narrated in the Sahih of Imam Muslim (kitab al nikah, bab isti'dhan al thayyib fi'l nikah) from Ibn `Abbas that the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) said, "The unmarried woman has more right over herself than her guardian." (Also: Sunan al Nasa'i, bab isti'dhan al bakr fi nafsiha; Abu Dawud, bab fi'l thayyib; Tirmidhi) This shows that the guardian cannot force an adult woman - whether a virgin or not - into marriage and thus does not have wilayat al ijbar, contrary to what the Shafi` school states that the virgin adult can be forced into marriage. Rather, who she marries is fully her own choice and right.

(4) Abu Salama narrates that a woman came to the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) and said, "'Indeed, my father married me to a man and I dislike it.' He (the Prophet) said to her father, 'Let her go and marry who she wills.'" Ibn Hajar said in his Diraya, "This narration is mursal jayyid."

(5) In another similar narration it is mentioned that a virgin came to the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant peace) and complained about her marriage after which the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) gave her the right to marry who she willed. (Abu Dawud, kitab al nikah; Nasa'i, and Ibn Majah from Ibn `Abbas) It is stated in `Awn al Ma`bud, "This narration is proof for the unlawfulness of the fathers forcing his virgin daughter into marriage."

(6) It is narrated in the that Sayyidina `Ali (Allah be well-pleased with him) discouraged marriage without the approval of the guardian but considered such a marriage valid nonetheless. (Kanz al Ummal #45772; Musannaf Ibn Abi Shayba)

(7) It is narrated in the Muwatta that Sa`id ibn al Musayyib said, "`Umar ibn Khattab said, 'It is not right for a woman to be married unless with the permission of her guardian, or a member of her family of sound judgement, or the ruler." (bab nikah bighayr wali, #541) This is also proof for the Hanafi school since "a member of her family" is not considered a guardian and can be anyone.

(8) This was also the position of many of the major followers. Ma`mar said, "I asked Zuhri about a woman marrying without a guardian and he said, 'If they are suitable, it is permitted.' (wa in kaana kaf' jaaz)" (Ibn Abi Shayba, bab fi'l mir'at idha tazawjat bighayr wali) This is also related from al Sha`bi, Ibn Sirin, Qatadah, and others.

This is the proof and reasoning behind the Hanafi position.

In light of this evidence it is possible to address the proofs brought forth in the question and clarify the Hanafi understanding of them. Again, here it must be kept in mind that all the evidence seemingly stipulating the consent or presence of the guardian as a condition for the validity of a marriage contract must be understood in light of that which is decisive - namely the Qur'anic verses that have preceded.

The most commonly cited proof against the Hanafis is the statement of the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace), "There is no marriage without a guardian (wali)." This narration is a lone-narrated report (khabar wahid) and not decisive as proof and therefore cannot condition the general purport of the Qur'an. The negation "la nikah" is interpreted not to refer to the validity of the marriage contract, but rather to propriety according to the Hanafi scholars. There are many other examples of this such as the Prophet's (Allah bless him and grant him peace) saying, "None believes (la yu'minu) until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself," wherein the particle of negation is not a negation of one's iman in reality but rather a nafi al kamal (negation of perfectness). The same is the case with the nikah; it will be considered valid but improper. This is why the Hanafi scholars mentioned that seeking the consent of the guardian is highly recommended. (Bahr al Ra'iq, bab al awliya' wa'l akfaa'; Bada`i al Sana`i, fasl wa ama al wilayat al nadb wal istihbab)

The same is the case with all the other narrations on the issue. None of them are decisive - in transmission or meaning - as proof and the probabalistic simply cannot condition the decisive. Thus, for example, the narration of Sayyidah `A'isha stating that a marriage without a guardian is "batil" is interpreted to mean that it is not very beneficial. Such usage of the word "batil" is also present in the Qur'an in the verse, "You have not created this in vain (batilan)." (3: 191) It is also possible to understand such narrations as being specific to a woman who is not an adult yet, or the marriage of a woman to someone non-suitable (ghayr kuf'). (Ibid; `Ila al Sunan) Rather, Imam Zayla'i mentions in his work Tabiyin al Haqa'iq, "Bukhari and Ibn Ma`in stated that there is no sound narration (lam yasihh) in this section - concerning the condition of a guardian."

As for the verses of the Qur'an that are said to address the guardian, such verses - again - can only be understood keeping in mind the fact that other verses clearly establish the permissibility of women marrying themselves off of their own accord and right. For example, the word employed in surah al nur for those who are "single" (ayama) applies to both males and females and it is agreed upon that an adult male does not require the consent of his guardian to marry.Thus, the verse does not establish the necessity of a guardian but only the recommendation for both males and females to seek their consent even though both have the right to marry validly without such consent.

As for the verse in surah al baqarah (2:32) then it has been previously discussed and is used by the Hanafis themselves as proof. Imam Shafi` stated that this verse proves that the consent of the guardian is required because such a prohibition within the verse can only apply if the guardian had the right to forbid the marriage. (al Mabsut, bab al nikah bighayr wali) However, this is not necessarily the case because the prohibition here relates to societal decorum and akhlaq, and the fact that the right to contract the marriage is conjoined with only the woman immediately after the mention of such a prohibition makes this even clearer.

To conclude: The Hanafi position is that a sane, adult woman can marry of her own accord without the consent of her guardian. They use numerous Qur'anic verses that they see as decisive, and prophetic narrations in conformity with such verses. The proofs that seem to indicate the condition of the guardian as necessary for the validity of the marriage contract are seen in light of such decisive proof. Since they are probabalistic and cannot condition the decisive they are interpreted to refer mainly to recommendation rather than a necessary condition. This is true of all the proof brought against the Hanafi position.

With that, it should be known that all four schools are on truth and we strongly abide by the principle, "Our school is correct with the possibility of error, and those who disagree with us have erred with the possibility of being correct." (Hadiyyah al Ala'iyyah, pg: 242 ed: Dar ibn Hazm)

And Allah Alone Knows Best
Wasalam
Salman


حدثنا ‏ ‏سعيد بن منصور ‏ ‏وقتيبة بن سعيد ‏ ‏قالا حدثنا ‏ ‏مالك ‏ ‏ح ‏ ‏و حدثنا ‏ ‏يحيى بن يحيى ‏ ‏واللفظ له ‏ ‏قال قلت ‏ ‏لمالك ‏ ‏حدثك ‏ ‏عبد الله بن الفضل ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏نافع بن جبير ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏ابن عباس ‏
‏أن النبي ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏قال ‏ ‏الأيم ‏ ‏أحق بنفسها من وليها والبكر تستأذن في نفسها وإذنها صماتها قال نعم

:و في سنن أبي داود
‏حدثنا ‏ ‏عثمان بن أبي شيبة ‏ ‏حدثنا ‏ ‏حسين بن محمد ‏ ‏حدثنا ‏ ‏جرير بن حازم ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏أيوب ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏عكرمة ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏ابن عباس ‏
‏أن ‏ ‏جارية ‏ ‏بكرا أتت النبي ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏فذكرت ‏ ‏أن أباها زوجها وهي كارهة فخيرها النبي ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم

:و في عون المعبود شرح سنن أبي داود
أن جارية بكرا أتت النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم إلخ ) ‏)
‏: في الحديث دلالة على تحريم الإجبار للأب لابنته البكر على النكاح , وغيره من الأولياء بالأولى . وإلى عدم جواز إجبار الأب ذهبت الحنفية لهذا الحديث

:و في المصنف
حدثنا يزيد بن هارون قال : ثنا يحيى بن سعيد عن القاسم بن محمد أن عائشة أنكحت حفصة ابنة عبد الرحمن بن أبي بكر المنذر بن الزبير وعبد الرحمن غائب فلما قدم عبد الرحمن غضب وقال : أي عباد الله ، أمثلي يفتات عليه في بناته ؟ فغضبت عائشة وقالت : أترغب عن المنذر

:و في البحر الرائق
وأما ما رواه الترمذي وحسنه { أيما امرأة نكحت بغير إذن وليها فنكاحها باطل } . وما رواه أبو داود { لا نكاح إلا بولي } فضعيفان أو مختلف في صحتهما فلن يعارضا المتفق على صحته أو الأول محمول على الأمة والصغيرة والمعتوهة أو على غير الكفء ، والثاني محمول على نفي الكمال أو هي ولية نفسها

:و في أحكام القرآن للجصاص
وقوله تعالى : { فلا تعضلوهن } معناه : لا تمنعوهن أو لا تضيقوا عليهن في التزويج . وقد دلت هذه الآية من وجوه على جواز النكاح إذا عقدت على نفسها بغير ولي ولا إذن وليها : أحدها إضافة العقد إليها من غير شرط إذن الولي . والثاني : نهيه عن العضل إذا تراضى الزوجان
ومن دلائل القرآن على ذلك قوله تعالى : { فإذا بلغن أجلهن فلا جناح عليكم فيما فعلن في أنفسهن بالمعروف } فجاز فعلها في نفسها من غير شرط الولي ، وفي إثبات شرط الولي في صحة العقد نفي لموجب الآية

:و في تبين الحقائق
وقد رووا في كتبهم أحاديث كثيرة ليس لها صحة عند أهل النقل حتى قال البخاري وابن معين : لم يصح في هذا الباب حديث يعني على اشتراط الولي



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Ershad

Junior Member
Wa'alaykkum Assalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu,

I cannot help you regarding the issue. However, I highly doubt the reliability of source i.e. Qibla. The owner of the site: "Shaykh" Nuh Kellar is known to have beliefs of Ashʿariyyah. He also belongs to some Sufi Tariqah. If you go through their biographies in the same site, they have had training from some sufi master.

You can read what he calls for here - http://www.asharis.com/creed/assets/docs/nuh-keller-deception.pdf

Dr. Saleh-us-Saleh also mentioned this person's several deviant beliefs in his book - http://www.calgaryislam.com/articles/islaamic/bidaah-innovations/287-the-dispraise-of-al-hawaa.html .

I would request some moderator to take a look at the website. I highly doubt if they would approve posting that link.
 

slaveofAllah88

Slave of Allah (swt)
Wa'alaykkum Assalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu,

I cannot help you regarding the issue. However, I highly doubt the reliability of source i.e. Qibla. The owner of the site: "Shaykh" Nuh Kellar is known to have beliefs of Ashʿariyyah. He also belongs to some Sufi Tariqah. If you go through their biographies in the same site, they have had training from some sufi master.

You can read what he calls for here - http://www.asharis.com/creed/assets/docs/nuh-keller-deception.pdf

Dr. Saleh-us-Saleh also mentioned this person's several deviant beliefs in his book - http://www.calgaryislam.com/articles/islaamic/bidaah-innovations/287-the-dispraise-of-al-hawaa.html .

I would request some moderator to take a look at the website. I highly doubt if they would approve posting that link.


aslam o alaikum wr wb

akhi im not sure about the website or its owner, but the content was the one i was trying to share, in my country alot of people have the belief that hanafi fiqh says that girl can marry without wali permission so that is something many people act upon without take into account, the islam really says. So that was the point, and this was verified by one brother who is studying hanafi fiqh and this is a reference that should be luked at
"(Radd al-Muhtar ala ‘l-Durr al-Mukhtar 3/56-57 & I’la al-Sunan 11/69"

inshallah thats the point i want to get across, don't endorse anything from the website and yes i know Asharis have many deviant believes
 

islamerica

1 Ummah under God
It is not permissible for a man to marry a woman without the permission of her guardian, whether she is a virgin or previously-married. This is the view of the majority of scholars, including al-Shaafa’i, Maalik and Ahmad. This is based on evidence which includes the following:

The verses in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“do not prevent them from marrying their (former) husbands” [al-Baqarah 2:232]
“And do not marry Al-Mushrikaat (idolatresses) till they believe (worship Allaah Alone)” [al-Baqarah 2:221]
“and marry those among you who are single” [al-Noor 24:32]

The point here is that these verses clearly stipulate that there be a guardian in marriage, because Allaah is addressing the guardian with regard to the marriage of the woman under his care. If the matter were up to her and not him, there would be no need to address him.

It doesn't matter what mahdab one is from, the most important thing is to look at the Quran and Sunnah as the main source, Even the 4 imams said leave what they said if you found evidence contrary to that.

It was narrated that Abu Moosa said: The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There is no marriage without a guardian.”
(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1101; Abu Dawood, 2085; Ibn Maajah, 1881. Classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani (may Allaah have mercy on him) in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi, 1/318)
 

hayat84

I'm not what you believe
salam 'alikum,I've got married in Morocco,I grew up with only the limits my oarents gave me.when I left my home I was free to choose.when I married my husband there was no wali for me,I reverted to Islam not because of marriage,but because of love for Allah.the only withness was my husband's aunt.we celebrated all this at the office of the mayor.it wasn't a religious marriage,but I remeber that the mayor made me recite some surats of Quran,whose meaning I at first didn't understand.but the act of marriage was validate from many authorities of morocco.it's strange that without a guardian a girl can't get married.forgive me,if maybe I've misunderstood the topic
 

slaveofAllah88

Slave of Allah (swt)
salam 'alikum,I've got married in Morocco,I grew up with only the limits my oarents gave me.when I left my home I was free to choose.when I married my husband there was no wali for me,I reverted to Islam not because of marriage,but because of love for Allah.the only withness was my husband's aunt.we celebrated all this at the office of the mayor.it wasn't a religious marriage,but I remeber that the mayor made me recite some surats of Quran,whose meaning I at first didn't understand.but the act of marriage was validate from many authorities of morocco.it's strange that without a guardian a girl can't get married.forgive me,if maybe I've misunderstood the topic

aslam o aliakum wr wb

Ukhti u should talk to a sheikh about that, cause a wali is important for marriage
 

hayat84

I'm not what you believe
brother you're making me fear.and if my marriage is not valid?we followed a long iter to reach the marriage.Police,consolato,judge,mayor.it took a month of legalizations and translations.it was made me some questions about my life and if I was marring for love and not for other reasons.
 

sister herb

Official TTI Chef
Salam alaykum

I understand very well situation of sister hayat84. Saying as "It is not permissible for a man to marry a woman without the permission of her guardian" is absurd to sisters living in countries where women hasn´t "guardian", when reverts come from families what are non-muslim. I would be in similar situation. Is my Christian father my guard? He doesn´t understand kind of idea at all. To him I am adult woman who makes decisions without his permit.

I will ask this questions from my friends, some of them are scholars.
 

hayat84

I'm not what you believe
thank you sister,I left the old life,repented for my sisns,I hope it's enough.the only one man who said the word "ok"for our marriage was the judge in person.he allowed us to marry each other
 

sister herb

Official TTI Chef
thank you sister,I left the old life,repented for my sisns,I hope it's enough.the only one man who said the word "ok"for our marriage was the judge in person.he allowed us to marry each other

Salam alaykum

Don´t be worry dear. And remember that Allah is the most mercifull to us.

*hugs*
 

Hajjerr

He is Dhul-Jalali Wal-Ikram
Salam aleikum

Revert sisters also need a wali, at my marriage the imam, as the trust worthy and good character figure in the masjid, was my wali. Alhamdulillah.

There is a link on islam qa about it, i read but i cannot post now, i am sorry.
 

sister herb

Official TTI Chef
Salam alaykum

When I married I didn´t do it in mosque. May Allah be mercifull to me and my late husband. I am sure he knew how to behave in marriage as he was born muslims, I just revert without similar knowledge.

:hijabi:
 

slaveofAllah88

Slave of Allah (swt)
aslam o aliakum

Sister, you shouldn't worry, but instead try to consult a scholar even the local imam as soon as possible, reason being its better to be sure on these issue, then again i shouldn't be saying anything on this matter cause i am merely a layman

Allah (swt) knows your intention inshAllah but its our responsible to fulfil the rights of islam
 

sister herb

Official TTI Chef
Salam alaykum

Thanks about your kindly advice, brother. Hopely it will helps sister. Even better talk with imam than listening random ideas from common members in forums.
 

slaveofAllah88

Slave of Allah (swt)
Salam alaykum

Thanks about your kindly advice, brother. Hopely it will helps sister. Even better talk with imam than listening random ideas from common members in forums.

walaikum salam wr wb

exactly, who are we ? we are layman ourselves you should seek a scholar for your particular issue inshAllah
our duas and well wishes are with u
 

islamerica

1 Ummah under God
Salam alaykum

I understand very well situation of sister hayat84. Saying as "It is not permissible for a man to marry a woman without the permission of her guardian" is absurd to sisters living in countries where women hasn�t "guardian", when reverts come from families what are non-muslim. I would be in similar situation. Is my Christian father my guard? He doesn�t understand kind of idea at all. To him I am adult woman who makes decisions without his permit.

I will ask this questions from my friends, some of them are scholars.

You are saying Islamic law and ways is "absurd"? I would be careful in how and what you say about things regarding Islam. It may seem trivial to us but may be very grave in the eyes of Allah. Allah has put men in charge of their women as guardians and protectors. If there sisters who have no mahram, the imam can act as a mahram and marry her off. Nothing is impossible, it just has a set of rules and guidelines who should not neglect or ridicule because we lack enough knowledge to understand it.


Here's what Scholars say on this:

If there is a Muslim with some authority in your area over the affairs of the Muslim community, then he can act in this capacity, based on the Prophet's (peace be upon him) hadeeth:

"No marriage contract can be concluded without the presence of a Wali. A Sultan (authority figure) can act as a Wali for those without one." (see Ibn Majah and Imam Ahmad, Hadith number 1880; also in Salih al-Jaami', hadeeth number 7556.)

If there is no authoritative Muslim person, then one should refer to the community Muslim leader or any Muslim who is just ('aadil), respected, and of high character, such as the director of the Islamic center or its imam, to conclude the marriage contract of this sister, with her consent.




Salam alaykum

When I married I didn�t do it in mosque. May Allah be mercifull to me and my late husband. I am sure he knew how to behave in marriage as he was born muslims, I just revert without similar knowledge.

Being a born Muslim does not guarantee he or she knows what they are talking about. How many born Christians actually know about their religion? We are not born with the knowledge inside us nor is our culture and upbringing all that Islamic. whether we learn it as adults or were raised islamically from a young age, We all have to be taught about Islam.


thank you sister,I left the old life,repented for my sisns,I hope it's enough.the only one man who said the word "ok"for our marriage was the judge in person.he allowed us to marry each other


It is hoped that inshallah one of the people in charge acted as your wali when you were married. One important thing to remember is that there is no sin on one who did not know. At the same time it is also important to talk to an imam or scholar, explaining your situation. Inshallah best case scenario is you'll be fine and worst is they'll have you redo your nikkah contract.
 

sister herb

Official TTI Chef
walaikum salam wr wb

exactly, who are we ? we are layman ourselves you should seek a scholar for your particular issue inshAllah
our duas and well wishes are with u

Salam alaykum

I don´t think I need help from scholar in kind of issue right now by my marriage. My husband died years ago.

May Allah be mercy to him. But thanks anyway.
 

sister herb

Official TTI Chef
Salam alaykum

Dear islamerica;

I didn´t call islamic laws absurd, just described situation in the sisters from non-islamic families absurd in kind of "wali matter". No need to be so judgemental to people whose might disagree with you.

All the best to you sister.
 

islamerica

1 Ummah under God
Salam alaykum

Dear islamerica;

I didn´t call islamic laws absurd, just described situation in the sisters from non-islamic families absurd in kind of "wali matter". No need to be so judgemental to people whose might disagree with you.

All the best to you sister.

Wa'alaykum as-salaam dear sister,

you had stated [Saying as "It is not permissible for a man to marry a woman without the permission of her guardian" is absurd... ] gives the impression that you are calling the whole idea of " not giving permission" to marry without wali is absurd. I just wanted to point out we should be careful in calling islamic matters "absurd", this "wali matter" is this way because Allah ordained it.
 
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