Obama's cartoon

[MRasheed]

I can not comment on your previous posts. It requires alot of my effort & time. You're jumping all over the map.

I merely responded to what you wrote. If there was any jumping involved, it was done by you I'm afraid.

The comments you made requires tremendous research on your part in order for you to understand politics in the U.S.

You can only be talking about your Powell/Rice references. Actually in that post you only revealed to me how much YOU didn't know.

My sincere advice is that you read the posts under News & Current Affairs. It'll broaden your scope & knowledge.

Don't worry about my political learning. I already mentioned that I was continuing my study. Just because you disagree with my points doesn't mean that I'm not right or that my opinion isn't valid.

Please do not use my comments I've personally made to sister Mirajmom to suit your position. It's a sign of disrespect and arrogance.

Not once did I mention her mock marriage proposal or your reference to your shyness. I only responded to your posts directed at me. Please go back and re-read that part in order to clear up any confusion.

You seem to have a joy playing with words.

Imagine that. I happen to be a professional writer. Do you think it could be a coincidence?

And it was arrogance that led Iblis (satan) to the hell fire. Be cautious.

He's not in the hell fire yet. He still has to wait for judgment like all the rest of us. Right now he's here on earth whispering suggestions that people engage in slander, cliques, name-calling, hypocrisy, etc.

Take care. Wish you all the best in this world and the hereafter.

Thank you, brother. And you too.

 

[MRasheed]

:astag:

Brother you MRasheed you have no clue what you are talking about!
You are not a Mufassir so DON'T DARE try and formulate your own Tafsir's.
Salaam is all I will say cause your ignorance and arrogance are paramount.
Here is something about Surah Al-Ma'ida from Ibn Kathir:

In the Sahih collected by Al-Bukhari, Abu Hurayrah said that the Messenger of Allah said,

(I, among all people, have the most right to the son of Maryam, for there was no Prophet between Him and I.)

Interesting that the Qur'an Itself says that Yahya, son of Zakariya was indeed the Prophet of Allah who lived inbetween the Christ Jesus and Muhammad. Since this Ibn Kathir is so fond of quoting Hadith that are so obviously false, why then should I accept his opinion over my own?

STOP LIVING IN IGNORANCE BROTHER RASHEED

I forgive you for your name calling. I'll pray for you. May Allah have mercy.

 

[Achmat_Samsodien]

Interesting that the Qur'an Itself says that Yahya, son of Zakariya was indeed the Prophet of Allah who lived inbetween the Christ Jesus and Muhammad. Since this Ibn Kathir is so fond of quoting Hadith that are so obviously false, why then should I accept his opinion over my own?



I forgive you for your name calling. I'll pray for you. May Allah have mercy.

:astag:

Brother you have just insulted one of the GREATEST Islamic Scholars of ISLAM! Your opinion compared to his means absolutely nothing! There was NO PROPHET, I REPEAT NO PROPHET BEFORE NABIE MUHAMMAD SAW What Qur'aan are you reading? Nabie Yahya AS was John the BAPTIST!!!!!
Even the christians know this!
How ignorant can you be? Subhanallah May Allah have mercy on you.
I'm beginning to doubt that you are a muslim, your aqeedah is warped!

 

[MRasheed]

Brother Achmat_Samsodien I think you'd better stop before you embarrass yourself further:

and a prophet[/COLOR],- of the (goodly) company of the righteous."

Brother you have just insulted one of the GREATEST Islamic Scholars of ISLAM!

Only Allah is great, brother. You are tumbling dangerously close to idolatry. Humans are flawed, as this Ibn Kathir proved.

Allah said Yahya is His prophet. Ibn Kathir said he was not.

Who should I believe? "One of the GREATEST Islamic Scholars of Islam!" or the Lord of All the Worlds? Think carefully...

 

[MRasheed]

How ignorant can you be? Subhanallah May Allah have mercy on you.
I'm beginning to doubt that you are a muslim, your aqeedah is warped!

More name calling? And now you've added the sin of saying a fellow Muslim is not Muslim for no reason other than because you disagree with him?

:astag:

 

[TheHumbleWun]

Not once did I mention her mock marriage proposal or your reference to your shyness. I only responded to your posts directed at me. Please go back and re-read that part in order to clear up any confusion.

Please go back and re-read your post #24.

More slander? Bearing in mind that he is not even president yet, can you speak with any certain "encyclopedic knowledge" or is this more assumptions?

You used a specific word I stated to her. If this is not a sign of arrogance & pride then I don't what is. You've even took one of sister Mirajmom's post out of context & with misunderstanding without reading the whole thread.

Please let's not be disrespectful to the original person who posted this thread. You've hijacked it. Create your own thread, post your questions or take what you know and formulate it into a question so you can get feedback.

Also regarding your comments about Christians & Jews:

"And whoever seeks a religion other than Islaam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers." [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]

"By the One in Whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, there is no-one of this ummah, Jew or Christian, who hears of me then dies without believing in that with which I have been sent, but he will be one of the people of Hell." (Reported by Muslim, may Allaah have mercy on him, in al-Saheeh, 153).

I agree Iblis is not in the hell fire but he will be, it was a figure of speech that I made. Read this:

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/10034/

I won't comment or post on this thread again. I have very little time to waste.

 

[Achmat_Samsodien]

Brother Achmat_Samsodien I think you'd better stop before you embarrass yourself further:





Only Allah is great, brother. You are tumbling dangerously close to idolatry. Humans are flawed, as this Ibn Kathir proved.

Allah said Yahya is His prophet. Ibn Kathir said he was not.

Who should I believe? "One of the GREATEST Islamic Scholars of Islam!" or the Lord of All the Worlds? Think carefully...

Believe what you want, there is nothing wrong in praising a muslim because of his knowledge of Islam and you accuse me of Shirk? I said he was great in the knowledge of Islam. Nabie Yahya clearly came before Nabie Isa AS and who said Ibn Kathir rejected him? Rejecting any Nabie of Allah is going against Allah:

Nabi Zakariyah
and
Nabi Yahya
(John the Baptist)*AS
*We must always say Alayhis Salaam when we mention the name of a Prophet. It means, “May ALLAH -Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala’s blessing and mercy be on him”)
Story Number
27
Dear Children
In this issue you are going to read about Nabi Zakariyah and his son Nabi Yahya (alayhis salaam). Nabi Zakariyah (alayhis salaam) who lived in one of the towns of Palestine with his wife Elizabeth were very honest and pious. They were involved in all the good deeds towards other people. They had no children. He used to go to the temple daily and deliver a sermon reminding the people to believe only in the One God and to do righteous deeds. He was a carpenter and earned his livelihood from making furniture, doors and windows.
WISHED FOR A SON
When he reached his nineties and became weaker and old (19:4) he became concerned that there was no one to carry on with his duties as a Prophet (19:6). He feared that the people would move away from the teachings of God and change the holy laws to suit their own needs. He had often wished that he had a son or mawali (inheritor) to carry on with this noble work.
LOOKING AFTER MARIAM (MARY) AND PRAYING
He had also taken on the responsibility to look after Mariam (Mary) the mother of Nabi Esa (Jesus - Alayhis Salaam –may peace be on him). Soon after Mariam was born her mother left her in the care of Nabi Zakariyah (alayhis salaam) as she wanted to dedicate her child to the service of the Lord (3:35). A special room was built at the temple for the protection of Mariam (3:36) with a staircase that could be lifted and lowered by Mariam. The only person who visited her was Nabi Zakariyah (alayhis salaam).
On one of his visits to Mariam he found an answer to his problem of not having a strong leader to carry on with his work. When he entered the room of Mariam he was surprised to find that she was supplied with sustenance even some lovely fresh out-of-season fruit in her room (3:37). On enquiring about the presence of the food Mariam told him, “It has come from Allah, for Allah provides sustenance to whom HE pleases without measure,” (3:37). This incident jolted his memory as he realised that he too could ask the Creator to provide him with a son even if his wife was old and past the child bearing stage as nothing was impossible for the Gracious Lord. He knelt down and prayed, “O my dear Lord, grant to me from YOU a progeny (son) that is pure, for YOU are HE that answers prayers.”
THE ARRIVAL OF YAHYA
At home when he stood up in his daily prayer the Angels visited him and announced to him, “Allah has given you glad tidings of Yahya (a son) confirming the truth of a word from Allah and he will be noble, chaste and a Prophet. He will also be in the company of the Prophets” (3:39). He accepted this message by asking for a sign to satisfy his heart and promised the Lord that he will continue reminding the people to worship the One God.
YAHYA’S HABITS
When Yahya was born he was graced with wisdom (19:12). The boy grew up under the influence of his father who guided and trained him. He was not arrogant or rebellious and very dutiful and kind to his parents (19:14). He never argued with them and he always had a very kind word for them. He showed great compassion towards his parents and the elders. He refrained from disobeying them in speech, actions, commands and prohibitions. He did not play with the village children, as he was devoted to the cause of the Lord. He was merciful to the animals and always fed them and treated them with kindness and loving care. He loved reading and understanding the scriptures. The Creator guided him to read the book of jurisprudence - Taurah (19:12). He became knowledgeable and very wise in matters of the community. He became an expert at passing judgement on peoples’ affairs, interpreting the religion, guiding the people to the right path and warning them against the wrong ways.
He devoted himself completely to the will of the Creator. Nabi Yahya (alayhis salaam) found great comfort to be outside in the presence of nature and never cared much about food. He lived in utmost simplicity. Dressed in a robe made of coarse camel hair, he ate leaves, herbs and sometimes locusts. He slept anywhere in the mountains or in holes in the ground. He sometimes would find a lion or a bear as he entered a cave and would not be afraid of them. The beast recognised Nabi Yahya (alayhis salaam) as a prophet who cared for all animals and they would lower their heads and leave the cave for him. He was very conscious (taqwa) of the Creator and he would often cry in fear of God. He would spend most of the night in praises of his Creator.
CALLING HIS PEOPLE TO ONE GOD
At the age of 35 he called his people to worship ALLAH (Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala) he made them cry out to the love of submission and he also infused their hearts with the truthfulness of HIS words and HIS mercy. His preaching aroused wide and deep interest with all the people of Palestine. He became very popular in the Jordan valley and large crowds of people attended his inspiring lectures and talks. People flocked from all over to listen to his lectures and he became very popular. His preaching included repentance and right living among the people.
KING HEROD ANTIPAS
At that time the ruler of Palestine was Herod Antipas who was a tyrant who bullied and oppressed the people. He ruled as a dictator and persecuted the people. King Herod fell in love with Salome, his brother’s daughter. The mother of Salome encouraged this match and it was also approved by some elders in the community either out of fear or to gain some favours from King Herod. However when news reached the people that he was planning to marry Salome, Nabi Yahya (alayhis salaam) immediately objected to this match as it was against Gods laws to marry your brother’s daughter. This pronouncement spread throughout the land like wild fire and people started talking about the evil ways of the king and his plans of marrying Salome. When it reached Salome ears she became very angry with Nabi Yahya (alayhis salaam) as it prevented her plans to rule the kingdom of Palestine with her Uncle.
SALOME ASK FOR YAHYA’S HEAD
Salome’s mother was just as unhappy with this pronouncement by the Prophet as she planned this wonderful opportunity of getting her daughter to be the queen. One day she dressed her daughter very attractively and sent her to the king’s chamber to dance very seductively in front of the King. She managed to capture the Kings attention and also arouse his lust for her. When she avoided his advances his desire grew to such an extend that he offered to fulfil whatever she desired in return for marrying her. She at once seized this opportunity and smilingly requested, “I would love to have the head of Yahya, because he has defiled your honour and mine throughout this land. If you grant me this wish I will marry you and become your queen.”
YAHYA IS KILLED
Bewitched by her charm he at once conceded to her request. Yahya (alayhis salaam) was captured and imprisoned in the Kings jail. During a function the king ordered his soldiers to behead Yahya. His head was brought on a tray to the special banquet in honour of Salome. She was delighted when it was presented to her and her mother also gloated with delight that nothing would now stop her daughter becoming the queen of this land. Although he was beheaded he was blessed by ALLAH (Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala), “And salaam be on him the day he was born, and the day he dies, and the day he will be raised up to life again,” (19:15).
This arrangement did not last very long as the death of the Prophet of ALLAH (Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala) was avenged as they were severely punished by the invading armies that killed all the people as well as destroyed the entire kingdom.
We also note that his father Nabi Zakariyah (alayhis salaam) was killed by the people after a few people spread ugly lies about him. When Mariam (Mary) became pregnant with the grace of the Lord (3:45) the people spread a nasty rumour accusing Nabi Zakariyah for this happening. This rumour spread throughout this village and soon the people wanted to kill him. The Lord guided Nabi Zakariyah away from the danger of getting killed by him by taking refuge in the trunk of a huge tree. Eventually when they discovered his hideout they ordered that the tree be cut down. Nabi Zakariyah died in the process, in silence without a murmur.
CONCLUSION
This beautiful lesson from the Glorious Qur'an is full of good examples of the blessings of ALLAH (Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala) for us in our life today:
We are commanded by ALLAH (Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala) to be dutiful to our parents. He obeyed his parents and spoke to them in a well-mannered way, followed all their wishes and even listened to them when they stopped him from carrying out certain actions that they disapproved of.
When a child listens to their parents he will be blessed. This is important for all of us to develop this obedience to parents, as it will provide us with the safety and security. It will remove the loneliness that we will be facing when we die and also on the day of Judgement when we will have to account for our deeds and actions.
Please read Surah Maryam chapter 19 verses 1 to 15 to get an idea of how the Glorious Qur'an mentions the story of Zakariyah and Yahya (alayhis salaam).

 

[Bluegazer]

Assalamu Alaikum brother MRasheed,


I'll ask you for a favour. Even if you're going to disagree with what I'll write here, I'll appreciate it that we keep our conversation civil. From me, you'll hear no name calling. With that, let's begin.


I actually posted a "Farewell...again" post just because I wanted to avoid getting embroiled in long debates. Please click on the following link to read it:

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=201385&postcount=1


However, I've seen that you have made some statements, brother MRasheed, that are just totally wrong. The main idea I'm concerned with was you stated in at least two posts.


In post #27 [on page 3] you wrote:

Allah made it clear that He will judge the doctrinal differences between us and show them how they have erred. But He promised all men that if we believe in Him, reject evil and do good in this world, we will win our reward. And it doesn't matter what religion we subscribe to. Believe in your Maker and strive so that your good deeds outweigh the bad. That is the sole secret for triumph. Obviously you will receive the highest place of honor if you do these things as a Muslim, but that is not the sole requirement to reach paradise.

And in post #32 [on page 4] you wrote:

2.) It is our good deeds and belief in God that will win mankind paradise, not the religion we profess. Allah made that clear in the Qur'an on numerous occasions. The jews believe you have to be a jew in order to get into heaven. The christian believes you have to be a christian in order to get into heaven. The truth of the matter as stated by Allah Himself, is if you believe in Him, reject evil and do good in this world, you will achieve your reward. You will have no need to fear, nor shall you grieve on the Day of Judgment. This is the definition of righteousness used by Allah to judge all of mankind.

First of all, brother MRasheed, let's read the translation of the verses you mentioned in post #34 [on page 4]:

The Holy Qur'an, Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #62
(1) Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

The Holy Qur'an, Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #69
(9) Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

The Jews, Christians and Sabians mentioned in the above verses do not refer to the Jews, Christians and Sabians found today [i.e. after the advent of the prophethood of Muhammad -peace be upon him-].


And how do I know that?


Because there are other verses of the Qur'an and there are sayings of the Prophet [peace be upon him] that make this point abundantly clear.


The problem, brother MRasheed, is that you have only taken these two verses of the Qur'an and then went on to conclude that dying as a Jew or Christian today [even if this Jew or Christian clearly received the message of Islam] does not mean he or she will enter Hell and not enter heaven.


That's just totally wrong.


Please read the following opinion of Shaikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid about who these Jews and Christians mentioned in the Qur'anic verses you cited above] were. It is opinion [fatwa] no. 2912 entitled "Who are the Jews and Christians who will enter Paradise?"

Question:

Who are the Jews and Christians who will enter Paradise?
For the time being, I do not have the resources to quote the exact Quranic verse, nor can I tell you what sura it has been taken from. However, I believe it is a common verse. I understand little Arabic; hence I found that in English. The verse can be interpretted as such:
The godfearing Jews, muslims and christians will not have fear (on that day).
I am not exactly sure of the bracketted phrase.
Now my question to you: is it mistranliteration?
We know that christians and jews in general cannot be hoped to have any sanction in the life hereafter. So, how do we understand the verse?

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

What you refer to in your question is mentioned in two similar aayaat in the Qur’aan. The first of them is the aayah (interpretation of the meaning): “Verily, those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allaah and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.” [al-Baqarah 2:62]

The second is the aayah (interpretation of the meaning): “Surely, those who believe, those who are the Jews and the Sabians and the Christians – whosoever believed in Allaah and the Last Day, and worked righteousness, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.” [al-Maa’idah 5:69]

In order to understand these aayaat correctly, we need to refer to the scholars of Tafseer (Qur’aanic commentary). The great Imaam Ismaa’eel ibn Katheer, may Allaah have mercy on him, said in his tafseer of the aayah from Soorat al-Baqarah:

“Allaah, may He be exalted, points out that whoever of the previous nations did well and was obedient, will have a good reward, and this will be the case for everyone who follows the Unlettered Prophet [Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) until the Hour comes – he will have eternal happiness, and they will not fear what they are going to face, nor will they grieve for what they have left behind. As Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): ‘No doubt! Verily, the awliya’ of Allaah [i.e., those who believe in the Oneness of Allaah and fear Allaah much, and love Allaah much], no fear shall come upon them nor shall they grieve.’ [Yoonus 10:62]. And Allaah tells us what the angels say to the believers at the time of death (interpretation of the meaning): ‘Verily, those who say, “Our Lord is Allaah,” then they istaqaamu [stood straight, i.e., truly followed Islam], on them the angels will descend (at the time of their death) (saying): “Fear not, nor grieve! But receive the glad tidings of Paradise which you have been promised!”’ [Fussilat 41:30]

As far as the Jews are concerning, their faith meant believing in the Tawraat (original Torah) and following the way of Moosa (peace be upon him) until ‘Eesa came, after which whoever continued to follow the Torah and the way of Moosa, and did not leave this and follow ‘Eesa, was doomed. As far as the Christians are concerned, their faith meant believing in the Injeel (original Gospel) and following the laws of ‘Eesa; whoever did this was a believer whose faith was acceptable to Allaah, until Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came, after which whoever did not follow Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and leave the way of ‘Eesa and the Injeel that he had been following before, was doomed.

The aayah (interpretation of the meaning), “And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85] is a statement that Allaah will not accept any way or deed from anyone, after sending His Final Messenger, except those that are in accordance with the laws of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Prior to this, however, anyone who followed the Prophet of his own time was on the Straight Path of salvation. So the Jews were those who followed Moosa (peace be upon him) and referred to the Tawraat for judgement at that time. When Allaah sent ‘Eesa (peace be upon him), the Children of Israel were obliged to follow him and obey him, and so they and others who followed him became Christians.. When Allaah sent Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), as the Final Prophet and a Messenger to all the children of Adam, all of mankind was obliged to believe in him and obey him, and refrain from what he prohibited. Those who did so are the true believers. The ummah (nation) of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) are called the believers because of their deep eemaan (faith) and conviction, and because they believe in all the past Prophets and in the prophesied events that are yet to come.”

Commenting on the aayah in Soorat al-Baqarah, Ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

“What is meant is that every group believed in Allaah and the Last Day, which is the appointed Day of Reckoning, and did righteous deeds. But after Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was sent to both mankind and the jinn, true belief can only be in accordance with the way of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Whoever follows his way will not fear the future or grieve for what they leave behind.


Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

Source: http://islam-qa.com/en/ref/2912/


To further prove my point, I will quote the translation of the meanings of certain Qur'anic verses that will leave you [Allah willing] in no doubt that the only religion acceptable to Allah the Almighty after the advent of the prophethood of Muhammad -peace be upon him- is Islam, and as such those who received the message of Islam clearly but died as non Muslims will not enter Paradise but will enter Hell to dwell therein forever.


Allah the Almighty said:

Verily, those who disbelieve in Allaah and His Messengers and wish to make distinction between Allaah and His Messengers (by believing in Allaah and disbelieving in His Messengers) saying, “We believe in some but reject others,” and wish to adopt a way in between. They are in truth disbelievers. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating torment.

[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 4:150-151]


Therefore, a person who believes that Moses -peace be upon him- was a Messenger of God Almighty but rejects that Muhammad -peace be upon him- was also a Messenger is a disbeliever [pronounced in Arabic as Kaafir].


Allah the Exalted said:

And whosoever does not believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW), then verily, We have prepared for the disbelievers a blazing Fire.

[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 48:13]


Allah the Almighty said:

And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.

[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 3:85]


And Prophet Muhammad -peace be upon him- said:

والذي نفسي محمد بيده ! لا يسمع بي أحد من هذه الأمة يهودي ولا نصراني ، ثم يموت ولم يؤمن بالذي أرسلت به ، إلا كان من أصحاب النار​

By the One who has Muhammad's soul in His Hand, he who hears of me from this nation; Jew and Christian, then dies while not believing in what I was sent with, will be of the companions of the Fire.

[Collected by Muslim in Sahih Muslim, hadith no. 153. I translated the hadith into English]


There are many verses in the Qur'an that show that the People of the Book who disbelieved in Islam or had other blasphemous beliefs are also called disbelievers [pronounced in Arabic as Kuffaar]. Allah also mentioned that He cursed them.


Allah the Almighty said:

Surely, they have disbelieved who say: "Allah is the Messiah ['Iesa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary)." But the Messiah ['Iesa (Jesus)] said: "O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Verily, whosoever sets up partners in worship with Allah, then Allah has forbidden Paradise for him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong*!doers) there are no helpers. Surely, disbelievers are those who said: "Allah is the third of the three (in a Trinity)." But there is no ilah (god) (none who has the right to be worshipped) but One Ilah (God -Allah). And if they cease not from what they say, verily, a painful torment will befall the disbelievers among them.

[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 5:72-73]


Allah the Exalted said:

Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islam, the Quran and Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikun will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.

[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 98:6]

And the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths. They imitate the saying of the disbelievers of old. Allah's Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth! They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allah), and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)) to worship none but One Ilah (God - Allah) La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). Praise and glory be to Him, (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).

[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 9:30-31]



And what happens to the disbelievers [Kuffaar] on the Day of Judgment?


Please reflect on the following Qur'anic verses:

Allah has promised the hypocrites; men and women, and the disbelievers, the Fire of Hell, therein shall they abide. It will suffice them. Allah has cursed them and for them is the lasting torment.

[9:68]

Verily, Allah has cursed the disbelievers, and has prepared for them a flaming Fire (Hell). Wherein they will abide for ever, and they will find neither a Wali (a protector) nor a helper. On the Day when their faces will be turned over in the Fire, they will say: "Oh, would that we had obeyed Allah and obeyed the Messenger (Muhammad SAW)."

[33:64-66]

Verily, those who disbelieved, and died while they were disbelievers, the (whole) earth full of gold will not be accepted from anyone of them even if they offered it as a ransom. For them is a painful torment and they will have no helpers.

[3:91]

Verily, those who disbelieve, if they had all that is in the earth, and as much again therewith to ransom themselves thereby from the torment on the Day of Resurrection, it would never be accepted of them, and theirs would be a painful torment. They will long to get out of the Fire, but never will they get out therefrom, and theirs will be a lasting torment.

[5:36-37]


I wish you all the best brother MRasheed,

Bluegazer

 

[MRasheed]

Please go back and re-read your post #24.

You used a specific word I stated to her. If this is not a sign of arrogance & pride then I don't what is. You've even took one of sister Mirajmom's post out of context & with misunderstanding without reading the whole thread.

lol Ah! I had forgotten about that reference! But I thought you were referring to my using your comment to her against you. I apologize for misunderstanding that.

Now to the point: It is not arrogance or pride to quote someone on a public message board. Why would it be? That is a standard tool of conversation, argument and debate to quote.

Please let's not be disrespectful to the original person who posted this thread. You've hijacked it.

Are we not still discussing Obama and his merit as presidential candidate?

Create your own thread, post your questions or take what you know and formulate it into a question so you can get feedback.

This one seems adequate. It wasn't going anywhere anyway.

Also regarding your comments about Christians & Jews:

"And whoever seeks a religion other than Islaam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers." [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]

The Holy Qur'an, Aal-e-Imran, Sura 3:84-86
84 Say: "We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Allah do we bow our will (in Islam)."
85 If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah., never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).
86 How shall Allah Guide those who reject Faith after they accepted it and bore witness that the Messenger was true and that Clear Signs had come unto them? but Allah guides not a people unjust.

Here it is clear that Allah is referring to the transgressors of faith... those who have accepted Islam and then rejected it. Barack Obama is not in this category in that he was raised without a religion and became a Christian in his adulthood. He is not a transgressor of Islam. Instead of slandering him we should instead pray that as he continues his spiritual journey he comes into the fullness of Islam. All praises are due to Allah.

I agree Iblis is not in the hell fire but he will be, it was a figure of speech that I made.

I understand. :salam2:

 

[MRasheed]

Believe what you want...

I believe in Allah and His way and in the way of His prophet. But thanks. You may continue to believe in your all-powerful shaikhs and find out where that gets you. Hint: It is VERY warm.

...there is nothing wrong in praising a muslim because of his knowledge of Islam and you accuse me of Shirk?

You've accused me of quite a few things. You can dish it out but you can't take it, eh? One of us needs a thicker skin perhaps? I have an idea: Stop believing mere human scholars are infallible and you won't risk my accusing you of shirk. Deal?

I said he was great in the knowledge of Islam.

That doesn't mean he is error free in his opinion.

Nabie Yahya clearly came before Nabie Isa AS and who said Ibn Kathir rejected him?

He himself did by agreeing with the hadith that said that there were no prophets between Isa and Muhammad (peace be upon them). You ought to remember considering you are the one that posted it. Is it possible that you didn't bother to read your own quote?

 

[Abdul Hasib]

Salaam,

I forgive your arrogance. I forgive your smitteness. On a public forum you insult an older Muslim woman, a believing woman,and a mother for the sake of a kuffir. On the Day of Judgement brother what will you have to say? You have insulted my age, my belief, my education, and my faith you have called me a backbiter, and a liar. I point no fingers. I simply addressed your faith in a kuffir to that of a Muslim. You opted for the lies of a kuffir because of the color of his skin. You circumvented the question I posed to you by posting on backbiting.

You need to understand humility which is a necessary characterstic of Muslim men.

In the end the poliltician will disappoint you as they all do; the plight of African Americans will not change...the only thing that will change the circumstances of a people is the submission to Allah subhana talla.
As I am writing my response I pray my message has reached your heart. My leader is the Prophet, may the peace and blessings of Allah subhana talla be upon him. My way is the way of the Quran and the Sunnath. My people are Muslims, past, present and future.

Yeah Ammi! Hey eveyone, see that's my mom out there! Woot!!!

 

[MRasheed]

Assalamu Alaikum brother MRasheed...

Wa Alaikum As Salaam, Brother Bluegazer. So we meet at last.

I'll ask you for a favour. Even if you're going to disagree with what I'll write here, I'll appreciate it that we keep our conversation civil. From me, you'll hear no name calling.

That is very refreshing and I appreciate it. Thank you very much.

With that, let's begin.

I'm looking forward to it.

I actually posted a "Farewell...again" post just because I wanted to avoid getting embroiled in long debates.

That is unfortunate. I myself enjoy long debates and discussions on a variety of topics. I find them fun, exhilarating and educational. This is how the laws of the Muslim ummah built up into the world-wide Dynasty of Islam. It wouldn't have gone anywhere if we didn't talk about it.

However, I've seen that you have made some statements, brother MRasheed, that are just totally wrong.

It's okay. I feel the same about many of the statements mentioned before you. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and it is Allah who knows best. I promise not to take it personal if you keep to your promise.

First of all, brother MRasheed, let's read the translation of the verses you mentioned in post #34 [on page 4]:

The Jews, Christians and Sabians mentioned in the above verses do not refer to the Jews, Christians and Sabians found today.

Oh?

And how do I know that?

Do tell.

Because there are other verses of the Qur'an and there are sayings of the Prophet [peace be upon him] that make this point abundantly clear.

We'll see.

The problem, brother MRasheed, is that you have only taken these two verses of the Qur'an and then went on to conclude that dying as a Jew or Christian today [even if this Jew or Christian clearly received the message of Islam] does not mean he or she will enter Hell and not enter heaven. That's just totally wrong.

lol

Actually the real problem is that many of the people in this thread are so caught up in someone else's translation of the scripture. I frequently meet christians who act the same way: They find it impossible to see the meaning of the Scriptures for themselves because they can't see past the interpretation given to them by their pastor and are confined to what was spoon fed to them. They lack their own sense of critical thinking and observation based on what they have read for themselves. There seems to be a lot of that going on in here as well. They require Shaikh Such-n-Such to read them a bedtime story in order to sleep at night. It's unfortunate.

Please read the following opinion of Shaikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid about who these Jews and Christians mentioned in the Qur'anic verses you cited above] were. It is opinion [fatwa] no. 2912 entitled "Who are the Jews and Christians who will enter Paradise?"

Another Shaikh? lol

Okay.

Question:
Who are the Jews and Christians who will enter Paradise? The verse can be interpretted as such:
The godfearing Jews, muslims and christians will not have fear (on that day).
We know that christians and jews in general cannot be hoped to have any sanction in the life hereafter. So, how do we understand the verse?

Answer:
What you refer to in your question is mentioned in two similar aayaat in the Qur’aan. The first of them is the aayah (interpretation of the meaning): “Verily, those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allaah and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.” [al-Baqarah 2:62]

The second is the aayah (interpretation of the meaning): “Surely, those who believe, those who are the Jews and the Sabians and the Christians – whosoever believed in Allaah and the Last Day, and worked righteousness, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.” [al-Maa’idah 5:69]

In order to understand these aayaat correctly, we need to refer to the scholars of Tafseer (Qur’aanic commentary). The great Imaam Ismaa’eel ibn Katheer, may Allaah have mercy on him, said in his tafseer of the aayah from Soorat al-Baqarah:

“Allaah, may He be exalted, points out that whoever of the previous nations did well and was obedient, will have a good reward, and this will be the case for everyone who follows the Unlettered Prophet [Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) until the Hour comes – he will have eternal happiness, and they will not fear what they are going to face, nor will they grieve for what they have left behind. As Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): ‘No doubt! Verily, the awliya’ of Allaah [i.e., those who believe in the Oneness of Allaah and fear Allaah much, and love Allaah much], no fear shall come upon them nor shall they grieve.’ [Yoonus 10:62]. And Allaah tells us what the angels say to the believers at the time of death (interpretation of the meaning): ‘Verily, those who say, “Our Lord is Allaah,” then they istaqaamu [stood straight, i.e., truly followed Islam], on them the angels will descend (at the time of their death) (saying): “Fear not, nor grieve! But receive the glad tidings of Paradise which you have been promised!”’ [Fussilat 41:30]

As far as the Jews are concerning, their faith meant believing in the Tawraat (original Torah) and following the way of Moosa (peace be upon him) until ‘Eesa came, after which whoever continued to follow the Torah and the way of Moosa, and did not leave this and follow ‘Eesa, was doomed. As far as the Christians are concerned, their faith meant believing in the Injeel (original Gospel) and following the laws of ‘Eesa; whoever did this was a believer whose faith was acceptable to Allaah, until Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came, after which whoever did not follow Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and leave the way of ‘Eesa and the Injeel that he had been following before, was doomed.

The aayah (interpretation of the meaning), “And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85] is a statement that Allaah will not accept any way or deed from anyone, after sending His Final Messenger, except those that are in accordance with the laws of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Prior to this, however, anyone who followed the Prophet of his own time was on the Straight Path of salvation. So the Jews were those who followed Moosa (peace be upon him) and referred to the Tawraat for judgement at that time. When Allaah sent ‘Eesa (peace be upon him), the Children of Israel were obliged to follow him and obey him, and so they and others who followed him became Christians.. When Allaah sent Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), as the Final Prophet and a Messenger to all the children of Adam, all of mankind was obliged to believe in him and obey him, and refrain from what he prohibited. Those who did so are the true believers. The ummah (nation) of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) are called the believers because of their deep eemaan (faith) and conviction, and because they believe in all the past Prophets and in the prophesied events that are yet to come.”

Commenting on the aayah in Soorat al-Baqarah, Ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

“What is meant is that every group believed in Allaah and the Last Day, which is the appointed Day of Reckoning, and did righteous deeds. But after Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was sent to both mankind and the jinn, true belief can only be in accordance with the way of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Whoever follows his way will not fear the future or grieve for what they leave behind.

You are right. I do disagree.

And I disagree not because I am "arrogant" and believe my 'powers' are more miraculous and fantastic than THE GREAT SHAIKH!!! but because, like you, he and the people he quoted failed to take into consideration the surrounding Ayats that put the quotes into better perspective and context.

As I mentioned in an earlier post:

The Holy Qur'an, Aal-e-Imran, Sura 3:84-86
84 Say: "We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Allah do we bow our will (in Islam)."
85 If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah., never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).
86 How shall Allah Guide those who reject Faith after they accepted it and bore witness that the Messenger was true and that Clear Signs had come unto them? but Allah guides not a people unjust.

...as you see it is clear that Allah was specifically referring to the vile transgressor of Islam. One who has accepted Islam as truth and then later rejected it. For such a one, no other religion he picks will be accepted by Allah and he will be thrown into the Pit forever.

Allah said that the Books of the past were allowed to fall into error, but those people who are sincere in those previous faiths are not completely lost. That's what those two quotes I posted before meant. The People of the Book are in manifest error about certain things, but if they are sincere in seeking to please Allah as they understand it, and do good over evil, they will receive the Mercy of their Creator. Of course they will be forced to be in a lower level of heaven than the righteous Muslim, because he is far more complete in his spirituality, but if they strive for right with true sincerity, their deeds should overcome the flaw of their religious choice.

The interpretations you posted were flawed and incomplete in undestanding. I'm sorry.

To further prove my point, I will quote the translation of the meanings of certain Qur'anic verses that will leave you [Allah willing] in no doubt that the only religion acceptable to Allah the Almighty after the advent of the prophethood of Muhammad -peace be upon him- is Islam, and as such those who received the message of Islam clearly but died as non Muslims will not enter Paradise but will enter Hell to dwell therein forever.

We will see if if this guy's opinion stands up to what the Qur'an actually says sure.

Allah the Almighty said:
"Verily, those who disbelieve in Allaah and His Messengers and wish to make distinction between Allaah and His Messengers (by believing in Allaah and disbelieving in His Messengers) saying, “We believe in some but reject others,” and wish to adopt a way in between. They are in truth disbelievers. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating torment."
[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 4:150-151]

Therefore, a person who believes that Moses -peace be upon him- was a Messenger of God Almighty but rejects that Muhammad -peace be upon him- was also a Messenger is a disbeliever [pronounced in Arabic as Kaafir].

Yes, this is indeed a serious charge against them, but it is a part of the basic error of their corrupted faiths. Allah made it clear that they would have to answer for it, and woe to them if on the Last Day they stand before the Greatest Judge of All and their good deeds do not outweigh the bad... nothing will save them as Allah has said. But if their good deeds outweigh their bad deeds, this proves that they were at least sincere in seeking righteousness and they will receive Mercy.

This is clear from the Qur'an's overall message with all such texts (including the ones I posted) combined. If you isolate one single ayah out of thousands, sure it will seem to be a certain way. But this is not the case here.

Allah the Almighty said:
"Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islam, the Quran and Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikun will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures."
[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 98:6]

This is a perfect example of my point above. Let's read the full Sura:

The Holy Qur'an, Al-Bayyina Sura 98
1 Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, were not going to depart (from their ways) until there should come to them Clear Evidence,-
2 An apostle from Allah, rehearsing scriptures kept pure and holy:
3 Wherein are laws (or decrees) right and straight.
4 Nor did the People of the Book make schisms, until after there came to them Clear Evidence.
5 And they have been commanded no more than this: To worship Allah, offering Him sincere devotion, being true (in faith); to establish regular prayer; and to practise regular charity; and that is the Religion Right and Straight.
6 Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures.
7 Those who have faith and do righteous deeds,- they are the best of creatures.
8 Their reward is with Allah. Gardens of Eternity, beneath which rivers flow; they will dwell therein for ever; Allah well pleased with them, and they with Him: all this for such as fear their Lord and Cherisher.

Allah does not condemn all of the Christians and Jews simply because they are Christians and jews as you and your precious shaikhs continuously interpret. Remember this Sura was revealed in Madina and represented the time period after members of the People of the Book had sided with the pagans against Islam. Here Allah is specifically mentioning that those who are consumed by evil of those groups are doomed. Those who are sincere will prosper while those who are lovers of doing wrong will perish. This is the message about the People of the Book.

Please reflect on the following Qur'anic verses:

[9:68]
68 Allah hath promised the Hypocrites men and women, and the rejecters, of Faith, the fire of Hell: Therein shall they dwell: Sufficient is it for them: for them is the curse of Allah, and an enduring punishment,-

This is not applicable to our discussion. A hypocrite is one who pretends to be one of you but is actually working for the enemy. In this case Allah is talking about people who are saying they are Muslims living among the believers. Nice try though.

[33:64-66]
64 Verily Allah has cursed the Unbelievers and prepared for them a Blazing Fire,-
65 To dwell therein for ever: no protector will they find, nor helper.
66 The Day that their faces will be turned upside down in the Fire, they will say: "Woe to us! Would that we had obeyed Allah and obeyed the Messenger."

It is clear that Allah is referring to the literal enemies of Islam who are seeking to destroy the faith and it's people. Again this is not applicable to this discussion.

[3:91]
91 As to those who reject Faith, and die rejecting,- never would be accepted from any such as much gold as the earth contains, though they should offer it for ransom. For such is (in store) a penalty grievous, and they will find no helpers.

This is referring to the transgressors of faith in the Sura I have already mentioned above.

[5:36-37]
36 As to those who reject Faith,- if they had everything on earth, and twice repeated, to give as ransom for the penalty of the Day of Judgment, it would never be accepted of them, theirs would be a grievous penalty.
37 Their wish will be to get out of the Fire, but never will they get out therefrom: their penalty will be one that endures.

This is referring to those disbelievers who will futilely seek to win free from their punishment by trying to buy Mercy with their material goods instead of striving for good.

I wish you all the best brother MRasheed...

And you too, brother. Thank you. :salam2:

 

[MRasheed]

Yeah Ammi! Hey eveyone, see that's my mom out there! Woot!!!

lol

Sister mirajmom is your mom? Cool.

 

[Aapa]

Salaam,

Given all the above and the quotes and the citations...you never did answer the question...do you take for a leader a man because he has the same skin color as you and defend him over Muslims. It is that simple. It is a yes or a no.

Sister Storm...you posted something innocently. You need not worry. Often it takes time to communicate with the best of manners. Passion overrides reason. We have found a young brother who is convinced of his belief system. In a sense he is correct...we can not judge who Allah subhana talla will allow into jannath. However, Allah subhana talla has given Muslims the rules to follow. As we are an ummath we need to uphold each other. And we must uphold Islam over everything else.

It is very simple...this politician is not Muslim...he does not represent Muslims..it does not matter if he wins or not. His power is limited to what the warmongers will allow him...this is the path he has chosen.

It pleases me very much to see the love that the brothers and sisters here hold for Islam.

I will not post on this anymore..and Brother Bluegazer...it is so good to see you post. Your meticilous knowledge sets a good example for everyone.
My love to all.

 

[MRasheed]

Given all the above and the quotes and the citations...you never did answer the question...do you take for a leader a man because he has the same skin color as you and defend him over Muslims. It is that simple. It is a yes or a no.

Sister I've written numerous times that that is not the reason why i trust that he will do a good job and will vote for him. I said numerous times that our connection by race is only what attracted my initial interests. I do not choose skin color over righteousness. In fact, I answered your question in my very first response to your first post in this thread on page 2. Perhaps it is your passion that prevent you from seeing how I have actually responded to your over-persistent question over and over again?

And we must uphold Islam over everything else.

Even righteousness? That's what the jews are famous for. They also uphold their doctrine, customs, and traditions above doing what Allah actually said to do.

It is very simple...this politician is not Muslim...he does not represent Muslims..it does not matter if he wins or not. His power is limited to what the warmongers will allow him...this is the path he has chosen.

His predecessors were loyal to the corporate special interests that promised them great wealth if they ruled in their favor. Obama has deliberately avoided such relationships so that the mega-corporations will not have power over him.

It pleases me very much to see the love that the brothers and sisters here hold for Islam.

Me too.

I will not post on this anymore.

Whoa! But what about all the research and knowledge that you said you possessed in order to prove that Obama was a liar? You're going to leave without posting any of it? That's not fair to our discussion.

and Brother Bluegazer...it is so good to see you post.

I agree.

Your meticilous knowledge sets a good example for everyone.

Ha! All he did was reflect your own opinions and cut-n-paste the opinions of your shaikhs. He'll have to try a little bit harder than that.

 

[Abdul Hasib]

lol

Sister mirajmom is your mom? Cool.

LoL I just CALL her that, no she's not my mom, silly.

She's also my Aunt too.

 

[MRasheed]

Ah!

In that case she is also my mom and aunt.

We have a passionate bond now. (mostly because she wants to strangle me...)

 

[ditta]

Assalaamu'Alaykum,

Well, i have been following this thread, but i just didn't know how to reply. From what i understand, brother MRasheed states that Obama is a man of righteousness and will do good for the Muslims. You have also stated from my understanding that if you are a Christian, Jew or adherent of another religion, but live a life of good then the aayah of the Qur'an quoted, these people will be in Jannah but on a lower level.

You seem to reject the Scholars of Islam and feel that you have the authority to interpret the Qur'an yourself. Well, don't expect to post your Tafsir on this site.

I was checking in Fatwa Islamiyah in relation to what you were saying, but this maybe fruitless as you seem to reject the Scholars of Islam. I will post it never the less, its not complete, only the bit which i felt was relevant. Whether this answers thing, Allah knows best but i feel it should suffice.

Question:

On what occasions or for what reasons were these two verses revealed? And what do they mean?

"Truly, the religion with Allah is Islam" [03: 19]


Answer:

The first verse,

"Truly, the religion (Din) with Allah is Islam" [03: 19]

Means that the only religion that is accepted by Allah is Islam. The word Din is used here, which sometimes means action, and sometimes means reward for action. For example, Din means action in Allah's saying:

"And with Islam as your relgion (Din)."

As well as His saying:

"Truly, the religion with Allah is Islam (Din)."

It also means the reward for the actions, as in Allah's saying:

"The Only Owner of the Day of recompense (Din)." [01: 4]

His saying:

"Nay, but you deny the Recompense (Din)." [82: 9]

And:

"Woe, that day, to those who deny. Those who deny the Day of Recompense (Din)." [83: 10, 11]

The action that is accepted by Allah Almighty is Islam, which means to surrender to Allah Almighty, outwardly and inwardly, and this embraces both Islam in the specific sense - the religion of Muhammad - and Islam in the general sense - the religion of all the Prophets. The religion of every Prophet was the religion of Allah Almighty, the religion of Islam. And the Shari'ah of one Prophet would continue until another came abrogating it, and this new Shari'ah would become Islam - Allah's religion, which alone is accepted.

So Allah's saying:

"Truly, the religion with Allah is Islam (Din)." [03: 19]

- embraces both the basic and secondary principles of religion, it also embraces the specific details of action: in both the general and the specific, Allah Almighty accepts only that which agrees with Islam. The Messenger of Allah said:

"Whoever does a deed that is not in accordance with our matter, then it is rejected."

[Muslim no. 1718]

This verse clearly shows that Allah Almighty does not accept other religions, regardless of the many deeds that their adherents may perform, and regardless of whether they are Jews, Christians, or adherents of any other religion. And whoever believes that a religion is equal to Islam, or says that Allah Almighty is pleased with all religions, he is a disbeliever, and should be asked to repent. If he doesn't repent, he should be killed, because all previous religions are abrogated by the religion that Allah Almighty revealed to Muhammad , for Allah Almighty says:

"And whoever seeks a religion other then Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losters." [03: 85]

Ibn Uthaimin

Reference: Fatawa Islamiyah, Volume 7, Book of Tafsir, Pg. 110 - 111

But sadly, you may not accept this because you feel that you are capable of interpreting the Qur'an which in all honestly could be stated as to fit your own interests. I ask, why would you need to interpret the Qur'an when Tafsir Ibn Kathir would suffice? You think, wouldn't Shaytaan have an easy target in someone who would want to do this?

In relation to Obama, fact is he is a Kafir, for you to say he is a friend of the Muslims is absurd as i recall a speech of his in Sderot (<- i think, not sure on the name of the place) in which he stated the fact that Israel as a right to existence and the people of Israel should not have to face the threats they are being threatnend with. This was a joke because what about the Palestinans and the threat they are facing? No right-minded Muslim would accept this person as a friend of the Mulims.

If you feel this is diverting, then i feel it is your fault, because as Brother Humblewun as stated you have brought up the different topics.

This is my reply, i guess you will disect it and then reply, but i feel this is clear by the Ruling given by Shaykh Muhammad bin Saalih al-Uthaymeen (Rahimahullaah). You can check his biography here:

http://www.fatwa-online.com/scholarsbiographies/15thcentury/ibnuthaymeen.htm

Also, i would like to say, why haven't you taken heed of what Abdullah bin Masood (may Allah be pleased with him) said, where he says:

"Let not any one of you blindly follow in his religion any person such that if he believes, you believe and if he disbelives you disbelieve. But if you (wish to be) followers (of any one), then (follow) those who have passed for verily, the living one is not secure from tribulation.

And also:

"Do not blindly follow men with regard to your religion, but if you refuse, then by the dead, not the living."

[al-Laalikaa'ee 1/93]

I understand this refers to following a specific person, but from your replies it seems like you are going to the extreme of following nobody and feel you have the ability to seek knowledge on your own without any teachers. I feel this is wrong, simply because the Scholars of the Past have clearly stated the importance of a teacher - its irreplaceable.

Insha'Allaah i hope i haven't offended you.

I reccomend a book titled The Book of Knowledge by Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-Uthaymeen which covers important aspects of the student of knowledge. I say this because in no way are you, me or anyone entitled to an opinion of such magnitude - interpreting the Qur'an - without authority being given by a Teacher to the student. The book gives two examples of a student of knowledge who misunderstands what Allah (subhaanahu wa ta'aala) intended and His Messenger , considering himself (the student of knowledge) to be most learned and correct.

That begs the question, do you consider your opinion to hold more weight in terms of acceptance to that of Ibn Kathir or the other known past interpretators of the Qur'an?

I will stop here, May Allah forgive me for anything wrong that i have stated. We must all Fear Allah and remember we will be accountable for our actions, because if i state that such an aayah of the Qur'an means such and such and another Muslim takes it on board while my understanding of it is infact incorrect i will be responsible infront of Allah the Almighty.

Alhamdu'Lillaah.

P.S: If there is any spelling mistakes then i am sorry and i will rectify it.

Walaykum Salaam.

 

[MRasheed]

You seem to reject the Scholars of Islam and feel that you have the authority to interpret the Qur'an yourself. Well, don't expect to post your Tafsir on this site.

I do not reject the "scholars of Islam." What I reject is the concept that any human being is infallible and without error. I reject the idea that the work of the "scholars of Islam" is above scrutiny. I reject the concept that only a class of "scholars of Islam" are allowed to interpret the meaning of the Qur'an and give me my understanding of it. I reject the concept that I'm not allowed to read/comprehend the Word of God but that I need a group of middle men to do it for me. I reject the concept that my God-given intellect is invalid even though both my intellect and the "scholar of Islam's" intellect came from Allah.

What you are describing is the priest class of Christianity in Dark Ages Europe. Allah banished priestcraft from His religion and there is NO ONE inbetween me and my Lord. The Body of Muslim Believers are encouraged to study, engage in vigorous debate, and compete with each other in knowledge and righteousness in order to strengthen the Ummah. The concept of us all sitting back ignorantly while we worshipfully wait for an elite class of scholars to spoon feed us their sacred interpretation and understanding is against Al-Islam, the Qur'an, Prophet Muhammad and Allah Himself.

Allah said to follow Him and His prophet... not Him, His prophet and the Holy High & Mighty Shaikh Abubu or whatever. You have just defined and made clear why Islam is not the dominant ruling force of the world anymore...

...because we have turned it over to an unlawful and artificial priestly class of so-called holy men.

Based on the way we are headed, our great grandchildren will probably worship the "scholars of Islam" along side of Allah and will have NO IDEA what the Qur'an actually says. And it will be all of THIS generation's fault.

 

[MRasheed]

But sadly, you may not accept this because you feel that you are capable of interpreting the Qur'an which in all honestly could be stated as to fit your own interests.

I am capable of basic reading comprehension. It's not hard. I learned it in school. My interests in the matter are the Truth of what my Lord hath sent down to guide me to paradise and nothing more.

Allah sent down the Qur'an to all of mankind. Am I not of mankind? Or is only your precious "scholars of Islam" considered part of mankind?

I ask, why would you need to interpret the Qur'an when Tafsir Ibn Kathir would suffice?

I would be in manifest error to blindly accept the understanding of the Qur'an from a flawed human being when I was given my very own intellect to understand it with. Your Ibn Kathir already proved himself severely flawed in the Prophet Yahya (peace be upon him) matter mentioned in an earlier post. His flawed logic and thinking may suffice for one who is small of mind, but he does not suffice for me. I will seek the pleasure of reading the Divine Word of Allah myself without the aid of another human's filter.

You think, wouldn't Shaytaan have an easy target in someone who would want to do this?

I think it is pretty clear that the shaitan has already had an easy target in anyone who would willingly give up his/her God-given intellect and let someone else understand the Word for them.

In relation to Obama, fact is he is a Kafir, for you to say he is a friend of the Muslims is absurd as i recall a speech of his in Sderot (<- i think, not sure on the name of the place) in which he stated the fact that Israel as a right to existence and the people of Israel should not have to face the threats they are being threatnend with. This was a joke because what about the Palestinans and the threat they are facing? No right-minded Muslim would accept this person as a friend of the Mulims.

See my earlier post about 'election strategy.' We'll see what Obama will do when hes elected InshaAllah. I strongly suspect his foreign policy will be a fair one.

If you feel this is diverting, then i feel it is your fault, because as Brother Humblewun as stated you have brought up the different topics.

I think it's fun. Weird, but fun.

This is my reply, i guess you will disect it and then reply...

How did you guess? can you see me? lol

...but i feel this is clear by the Ruling given by Shaykh Muhammad bin Saalih al-Uthaymeen (Rahimahullaah). You can check his biography here:

thanks. lol

Also, i would like to say, why haven't you taken heed of what Abdullah bin Masood (may Allah be pleased with him) said, where he says:

"Let not any one of you blindly follow in his religion any person such that if he believes, you believe and if he disbelives you disbelieve. But if you (wish to be) followers (of any one), then (follow) those who have passed for verily, the living one is not secure from tribulation.

And also:

"Do not blindly follow men with regard to your religion, but if you refuse, then by the dead, not the living."

[al-Laalikaa'ee 1/93]

Wow. I'm surprised that you posted that considering what this guy is warning you against is what every... single... one... of... you... has... continuously... done... in... this.. whole... thread! ALL of you "blindly follow" your precious shaikhs and "scholars of Islam" and will fight to the death at the suggestion that they are also flawed human beings as if you believe they are collectively Allah in the flesh.

I reeeeeeally don't think you helped your argument with that one. You helped mine. O My People! Stop blindly folowing your so-called "Scholars of Islam" as if they are without error!!! They are only human beings like you! Do they not bleed and eat food? Were they not born and will they not die on the appointed hour such as you yourselves? Study the Word of Allah for yourselves that you may achieve true understanding! This will be best for you if ye but knew!

I understand this refers to following a specific person, but from your replies it seems like you are going to the extreme of following nobody and feel you have the ability to seek knowledge on your own without any teachers. I feel this is wrong, simply because the Scholars of the Past have clearly stated the importance of a teacher - its irreplaceable.

Nay. I follow those who echo what Allah Himself hath decreed in the Qur'an. Those who believe in God, reject evil and love doing good deeds in the earth in anticipation of the great reward God has in store for them on the Last Day. Leaders such as these have earned my respect, just as they have earned their Lord's Mercy.

Insha'Allaah i hope i haven't offended you.

No. I commend you for your honesty tempered with self-restraint. A certain South African around here needs to learn a lesson from you.

I reccomend a book titled The Book of Knowledge by Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-Uthaymeen which covers important aspects of the student of knowledge. I say this because in no way are you, me or anyone entitled to an opinion of such magnitude - interpreting the Qur'an - without authority being given by a Teacher to the student.

I couldn't possibly disagree with you more. A teacher is supposed to guide, not give you everything. He doesn't think for you. A student searches and learns for himself while his teacher guides his study. Only a little baby needs someone to spoon knowledge into him and tell him how to think like a human. I would think that at some point the baby would grow up. Or WANT to grow up. Notice that the body of Christians are perfectly happy being spoon fed their scriptural understanding by the elite priest class that Allah hath forbid in our religion. Did you ever wonder why the relationship between the Christian priest and his congregation is referred to as "a pastor and his flock of sheep?" Is that what the body of Muslims aspire to become? A flock of mindless sheep?

The book gives two examples of a student of knowledge who misunderstands what Allah (subhaanahu wa ta'aala) intended and His Messenger , considering himself (the student of knowledge) to be most learned and correct.

Interesting. I found one example of one of your precious scholars who was clearly in error. And I wasn't even trying that hard. Your precious shaikhs have a habit of isolating a single ayah and making a ruling based on it without taking into consideration the context of the greater message. This is in fact not very scholarly at all. But I'm sure your little booklet will be oodles of fun.

That begs the question, do you consider your opinion to hold more weight in terms of acceptance to that of Ibn Kathir or the other known past interpretators of the Qur'an?

Sure. Why not? And I believe yours is also equally valid. Only the Qur'an Itself is flawless and beyond reproach. It alone is the TRUTH... the perfect standard to which all other opinions will be judged. Mine. Yours. Sheikh Abubu's. All Muslims. There is the Qur'an versus everybody else. Not the Qur'an & Sheikh Abubu versus everybody else. This is a great blasphemy.

I will stop here, May Allah forgive me for anything wrong that i have stated.

Aye.

We must all Fear Allah and remember we will be accountable for our actions, because if i state that such an aayah of the Qur'an means such and such and another Muslim takes it on board while my understanding of it is infact incorrect i will be responsible infront of Allah the Almighty.

What you fail to comprehend is that it is that Muslim who "takes it on board" who is responsible for his OWN understanding, not to try to take yours.

P.S: If there is any spelling mistakes then i am sorry and i will rectify it.

WHAT??? How DARE you mis-spell a word here!! :astag:




just kidding. lol