Obama's cartoon

Discussion in 'New and Current Affairs' started by Storm, Jul 17, 2008.

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  1. A_92
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    A_92 New Member

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    confused

    :salam2:

    I've been reading about your long debates and what i dont really understand is that how or if may be u can give me some information of how obama is anti-muslim or is just like Rice and Powell and all the rest, from what i understand he brought hope for a better america. i dont mean to start a debate i just want information or links/websites and want to understand why most of u think so negatively of him ,i mean i do agree he isn't a muslim
  2. ditta
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    ditta Alhamdu'Lillaah Staff Member

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    Assalaamu'Alaykum,

    Brother MRasheed, here lies the difference between you and me. I try to stick with the Pious Salaf (predecessors) in relation to understanding the Deen which conforms to the Qur'an and Sunnah. See the last bit is key. I avoid clinging to one Scholar and just debunking the rest.

    If you have read the Publishers Note in Tafsir Ibn Kathir you will see this:

    Tafsir al-Qur'an Al-'Azim, which is famous by the title Tafsir Ibn Kathir, by Al-Hafiz Abu Al-Fida' Imad Ad-Din Isma'il bin Umar bin Kathir al-Qurashi Al-Busrawi (d. 774H), is the most popular interpretation of the Qur'an in the Arabic language, and based on Qur'an and Sunnah. This Arabic work spans three thousand and two hundred pages in four volumes. As Darussalam has made a policy to publish only such works which are based on Qur'an and authentic Hadiths...

    The Tafsir of the Noble Qur'an which is one of the best Tafsirs that rely on narrations [of Hadiths, the Tafsir of the Companions, etc.].


    The Sources for Tafsir

    If someone asks about the best methods of Tafsir, we reply that the best method is to explain the Qur'an with the Qur'an itself. What is mentioned in general terms in one place in the Qur'an, is usually explained in another place. When one does not find this easily, he should look to the Sunnah because its purpose is to explain the Qur'an and elaborate upon its meanings...


    You see, that's why Ibn Kathir's interpretation is accepted worldwide as it conforms to the Qur'an and Sunnah of the Prophet :saw:.

    May I ask, are you well-versed in the Arabic language? Or are you just relying upon the translation of the Qur'an for your modern-day interpretation?

    Question:

    A group of people fanatically stick to one of the madh-habs or to one of the Scholars, while another group of people totally reject that and instead completely disregard the advice of the scholars and the Imaams. So what is your advice regarding this matter?

    Answer:

    Yes, both of these groups are upon opposite extremes. Among them are those who go to extremes in blind following (taqleed) to the point that they fanatiacally cling onto the opinions of men even if they contradict the proofs and evidences.

    This is condemned, and it eventually results in disbelief, may Allaah protect us from that!


    [Shaykh-ul-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah, may Allaah have mercy on him said: "So whoever clings fanatically onto an individual apart from the Prophet, such as those who fanatically cling onto (the opinions of) Maalik, or Ash-Shaafi'ee or Ahmad or Abu Haneefah, and believes that the opinion of this specific individual is the correct thing that must be followed, apart from the opinion of the Imaam that contradicts him - whoever does this is a misguided ignoramus. Rather, he may even be a disbeliever, for when he firmly believes that the people are obligated to follow one specific individual among these Imaams, apart from the rest, he must be made to repent. So if he repents (then he is absolved), but if not, then he should be executed."

    [Majmoo'-ul-Fataawaa: 22:248-249]


    The second extreme is the one who rejects the statements of the scholars altogether and does not benefit from them, even if they are in conformity with the Qur'aan and the Sunnah. This is negligence.

    The first one is an extremist while the second one is negligent. There is good in the statements of the scholars, not to mention the understanding of the Salaf, the understanding of the Sahaabah, the Taabi'een, the four Imaams and the Fiqh scholars who the Muslim ummah has testified to their understanding of the Religion. One should benefit and use their opinions, however they should not be taken as something indisputable. On the contrary, if one realises that this opinion opposes the evidence, then we are commanded to accept the proof (and not the opinion).


    But if this opinion doesn't contradict the evidence from the Qur'aan and the Sunnah, then there is no harm in taking and accepting it. And this is not from fanaticism, but rather it is from benefitting, profiting and being guided by the understanding of the righteous predecessors (Salaf as-Saalih). So it is the way towards learning the meanings of the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of His Messenger.

    And this is the true and moderate opinion: that we accept the opinions of the scholars and Fuqahaa that conform to the evidences from the Qur'aan and Sunnah, and we abandon what opposes the evidence. We also pardon and make excuses for the scholars in their errors, while acknowledging their status and not belittling them. The Prophet :saw: said:


    "When the judge makes a ruling exerting his judgement, and is correct, he gets two rewards. And when he makes a ruling, exerting his judgement, and is incorrect, he gets one reward."

    [Saheeh Al-Bukharee (6919) and Saheeh Muslim (1716)]


    And error is forgiven if it occurs from one who has in him all the conditions of Ijtihaad. As for the ignorant one or the newcomer to seeking knowledge, then he cannot do Ijtihaad, and it is not permissible for him to perform Ijtihaad. If he does do Ijtihaad, he is sinning regardless if he is correct or mistaken, because he has done something that he has no right to do.

    [Reference: Beneficial Answers to Questions on Innovated Methodologies, by Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan, Pg 75 - 76]


    May Allah forgive me if i have fallen into blind following one person, but with the above ruling Insha'Allaah i haven't fallen into this because i have tried to learn from the Scholars that conform to the Qur'an and the Sunnah. If you can't accept this, then i wash my hands and free my self from you.

    The problem of the Ummah doesn't lie in what you claim to be blind following to being spoon fed by the Scholars, rather it's because we have left the Qur'an and the Sunnah, we don't know what Tawheed is, we haven't established Tawheed in the home so i think its safe to say we won't see Tawheed in the whole Ummah will we? Many Muslims don't know what the correct Aqeedah is and what it conists of, just like me until a short time ago, Alhamdu'Lillaah that i do now to a certain extent. We have left seeking knowledge from the Pious Salaf and sadly with the mindset you have demonstrated it's resulted in travelling in contumacy and ignorance.

    If you hadn't realised, i have posted 1 ruling from a Scholar that is alive today, that is Saalih al-Fawzaan (may Allah protect him), the rest have passed away which i feel is ensuring that i seek knowledge from the dead as Abdullah bin Masood stated.

    If i were to reject these Scholars of the Past where would i lie in terms of my state? Who would i learn the Deen from in this time we live in, filled with innovation, mis-guided sects etc? How would i determine the right from the wrong, when i don't know what the right is or what the wrong is? See that just leads to one point, i can determine the right and the wrong by being aware of the people that conform to the Qur'aan and to the Sunnah of the Prophet :saw:.

    As i stated earlier, if you reject this then i distance my self from you and you can stay living in your contumacy.

    May Allah have mercy on me if i have said something incorrect which is far from the Qur'aan and the Sunnah.

    Ameen.

    EDIT: Just a reminder, this is my reply to my best ability, from what i am aware of, i am still learning and i am still young. Alhamdu'Lillaah.

    Walaykum Salaam.
  3. MRasheed
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    MRasheed Junior Member

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    And I stick to the Qur'an and Sunnah. Your vice-like dependency upon a middleman is un-Islamic.

    I don't debunk them. I read it and discard that which doesn't correspond to the Word of Allah, and keep those works that do. I do not blindly accept everything they say as fact because I understand that all humans are flawed and make mistakes natually and I don't want to go to hell because I relied on another man. If I am punished over a mistake from interpretation, I would rather it be my own.

    Popularity does not equal truth. In fact, that is a major red flag that someone's work SHOULD be vigorously scrutinized for error.

    I use the English translations that are available.

    Irrelevant. I do none of these things.

    That one clearly represents all of you.

    ?

    So you are saying you admit your fault, but you are still better than me because "at least you tried?" Perhaps it is I who should be eager to free myself from your odd philosophy?

    Can't you see that the reason we don't do it is precisely becasue we are relying on an elite group of scholars' understanding and THEY don't see it? The weaknesses of your precious shaikhs have been absorbed by you and you don't even grasp it. This wouldn't have happened if only you had recognized that the scholars are just as human as you, so you are supposed to check up on their work and scrutinize it against the Qur'an yourself. NEVER blindly follow another human being when your eternal soul's destiny is at stake. Would you blindly allow another human to take care of your finances without ever checking up on him? No? Then why would you risk eternity? Is that not more precious than your money?

    That explains why you are so reliant upon the scholars. You ARE just a baby in Islam.

    You are now contradicting your own argument. You are also engaging in insults.

    And I seek knowledge from the Creator of the Universe and He is never dead. So I win. lol

    I don't reject them. I only reject that part of their works that clashes with God's Word.

    The Qur'an is clear and plain on such fundamental matters. Where do you think the scholars themselves got their knowledge? Perhaps you should try reading it yourself.

    You CAN determine right and wrong by reading what Allah said it was.

    I am your fellow Muslim. I disagree with you in a religious philosophy discussion and you come back with insults and threats to distance yourself from me. Didn't Abu Bakr and Umar often have disagreements about even the nature of the Prophet's death? Did they start insulting each other and never talk to each other again just because they disagreed?

    So why are you behaving this way? Did you learn this behavior from your scholars and shaikhs that you so rely upon? This doesn't sound like the behavior of a pious Muslim whether alive or dead. Not to me. But of course I am "ignorant" and "living in my contumacy" so what do I know?

    Aye.
  4. ditta
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    ditta Alhamdu'Lillaah Staff Member

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    Assalaamu'Alaykum,

    Just to clarify if you feel insulted then that was not my intention. I feel i didn't threaten you at all, but there you go.

    I leave you be, as i feel i have said what i could say. I ask Allah to guide you and me to that which is good. Ameen.

    I don't think i am using the Scholars as middle men at all, rather i am taking what they have said which is in affirmation to the Qur'an and Sunnah in order to better my-self as a Muslim.

    I will take your advise on board in relation to reading the Qur'an.

    But, you should be aware the translation of a Qur'an cannot be replicated into another language, so your intrepretation of the Qur'an in English, considering it was revealed in Arabic, is kind of flawed, i think.

    Walaykum Salam
  5. MRasheed
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    MRasheed Junior Member

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    :wasalam:

    There "I" go? You continuously call me ignorant because you don't agree with me when it is Allah who knows best, but you don't believe that is insulting? You've threatened to "distance yourself" from me at least twice.

    But you now claim you have neither insulted nor threatened me. Did you learn THIS behavior from your scholars and shaikhs too?

    Actually you've said very little. But you did cut/paste a lot of other peoples' thoughts though. What are you doing with the thought-engine that Allah blessed YOU with by the way? Are you saving it for a rainy day?

    And what if they are wrong? How would you know?

    You should. It's fun to read the Qur'an and Allah blesses us for seeking knowledge within it.

    I am aware of the dangers. I am learning Qur'anic Arabic to repair the deficiency however. No, the pure 100% beauty of the Qur'an cannot be translated into another language, but Its message can and has been translated into English. If not, then I wouldn't be Muslim today. It was my reading of the English translation that decided me that this is truly the religion for me.
  6. TheHumbleWun
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    TheHumbleWun Banned

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    Salaam,

    Look MRasheed, I said was not going to post on this thread again, but your tone has trickled the blood in my veins. Since you claim to be a writer, you should understand tone is very important in order to establish your credibility to your listeners. Unfortunately, your tone comes across as ignorant, naive, nescient and utterly disrespectful towards the scholars of Islam and even TTI members.

    The very least you can do is respect the scholars of Islam. If you don't then my only sincere advice is that you FEAR ALLAH.

    You seem to stand firm in your own desires and it looks like nothing will change it. What's your intention to joining TTI? We're here to correct you misconceptions inshallah. Since when did you become a "scholar"?? How long have you been studying Islam? Who did you learn it from? Why haven't other prominent scholars or even ordinary Muslims heard of you?

    Do you attend Jummah and listen to sermon of the Imam? Do you critize everything he says? Since you don't listen to scholars I assume you don't like going to Jummah prayers huh? Do you even listen to your parents?

    Brothers & sisters don't listen to this man who speaks of his desires & whims. If he understands Taweed and understands that which he is saying, he is causing bidah and fitna on this forum. May Allah forgive you & guide you on the right path.

    Listen to brother Ditta. If we follow what you say by not following any scholar, then everyone will follow their own desires & interpretation of the Quran & Hadiths. Speak logically not vague and absurd.

    Don't get yourself the ban boot by the moderators of this site.

    I'm sorry brother Storm I broke my promise, please forgive me. I will NOT respond to this thread again.
  7. MRasheed
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    MRasheed Junior Member

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    Wa alaikum As Salaam, Brother TheHumbleWun! I see you have surprised us all and actually came back! Was it perhaps something that I said?

    You'll be okay, InshaAllah.

    A six time published author, Alhamdulillah.

    Sure.

    Was that my tone? lol

    Brother it is not disrespect to point out that a human being is only a human being. If you are feeling personally slighted by that, perhaps you should re-evaluate what the pillars and beliefs of Islam actually are?

    So you are saying that because I don't follow their words blindly as if I worship them, that it means I don't respect them? What does the word "scholar" mean in your world exactly? HINT: A scholar is NOT a god.

    Thanks, but if I didn't fear my Lord I wouldn't be Muslim right now.

    I stand firm in the TRUTH as should we all.

    Should it?

    Learning and discussing Islamic principles and enjoying the virtual company of my Muslim brothers/sisters. How about you?

    lol

    Is that right?

    scholar noun

    a.) a learned person
    b.) a student, especially one who earns high grades
    c.) one who researches knowledge


    Since the fall of 1989. That was a very passionate and odd question.

    Since 1979.

    I began my studies from my parents, and I attended a Muslim private schol when I was a child from 1979 to 1983. After that I was guided by various teachers in Michigan and eventually by the Qur'an itself.

    Who said they haven't? But are you implying that fame equals righteousness, scholarship or legitimacy?

    Of course.

    I pay attention to what he says. Sometimes he is off the mark and I certainly tell him so after the Khutbah.

    I didn't say I don't listen to them. I said I don't follow them blindly as if I worshipped them. There is a difference. Kindly pay attention.

    More assumptions? Are you following Islam now or are you following your own desires?

    Sure. Why not? But since you have never heard of my parents either, should that matter to you? In your mind, fame equals scholarship remember?

    I bear witness that there is no god but Allah and that He and He alone holds the truth. I advise you all to seek knowledge and guidance from the Word of Allah in the Qur'an so that ye may achieve true success both in this world and the next. Use the scholarship of your fellow Muslims as a guide and vigorous discussion, but it should never be your sole and only truth.

    I did. That's how I was able to respond back to him.

    Again, that is not what I said. I said do not "blindly" follow them. Make sure you do your own research to be sure what they say is correct.

    There is little danger of that. The Qur'an is plain and perspicuous. It only guides you true. If you took the time to open it for yourself for understanding you would know that.


    lol I will indeed try my very best, brother.

    By no means is that my intention.


    Should we believe you twice???




    Just kidding. lol Your responses are always welcome. Don't be a stranger.
  8. MRasheed
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    MRasheed Junior Member

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    It doesn't appear as if anyone here has anything for your question, Sister.

    In my opinion that is both a good and a bad thing.
  9. ditta
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    ditta Alhamdu'Lillaah Staff Member

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    Assalaamu'Alaykum,

    Firstly, i have gone to the effort of seeking Allah's pleasure to type those Fatwa's out and post them. Copy and paste is easy but its not available for me to do that.

    Secondly, I am not blindly following them, refer to the Fatwa, you misquoted me earlier, i stated, that I do not simply follow one Scholar and debunk the rest, rather i follow those that are adhering to the Qur'an & Sunnah. Re-read my earlier post.

    The Islamic Ruling by Saalih al-Fawzaan provides a good answer to what you are stating about blind following.

    Are you not also assuming, where you state that I am blindly following these Scholars? How would you know this? It's very dangerous for you to state that i worship them without any basis which is why i reiterate, Fear Allah. Subhaan'Allaah, do you realise that you are accusing me of Shirk on an Internet Forum?

    Oh, just to clarify, when i said "there you go" it was just a general statement, i didn't intend it towards you. I hope you understand this.

    Walaykum Salam
  10. ditta
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    ditta Alhamdu'Lillaah Staff Member

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    Assalaamu'Alaykum,

    I was thinking, see i am using my intellect and i decided to check a book titled Riyad-us-Saliheen - a compilation of Hadeeth's.

    Abu Dharr reported: I heard the Messenger of Allah saying, "When any Muslim accuses another Muslim of sin or of disbelief, the reporach rebounds upon the one who utters it, if the other person is not derserving of it." [Al-Bukhari]

    Commentary: What this Hadith stresses is that one should never say about a Muslim that he is sinful (Fasiq) or disbeliever (Kafir) when he is not so. The reason is that in that case, one who says it, will be held Fasiq or Kafir. One should, therefore strictly refrain from uttering such statements.

    Therefore, i would like you to forgive me for saying that you were travelling in your contumacy. You have accused me and members of this Forum of blindly following the scholars of Islam, not thinking for ourselves and worshipping them. I suggest you and I take heed of his hadeeth.

    Abu Hurayrah said: The Messenger of Allah :saw: said, "When two persons indulge in abusing each other, the beginner will be the sinner so long as the oppressed does not transgress the limits. [Muslim]

    Commentary: This Hadith tells us that if a Muslim abuses another and says unfair things about him and in return the recipient also abuses him and says unfair things to the same extent, then the entire burden of sin of abusing would lie with the person who initiated the quarrel. But if the who is wronged, exceeds the limits in revenge, then he will also be guilty to the degree of his excess. Thus, this Hadith shows that although revenge is permissible in Islam, it is better to forgive and bear the excess with patience. The reason behind this is that in revenge, one usually exceeds the limits and becomes an aggressor. Allah says: "And verily, whosoever shows patience and forgives, that would truly be from the things recommended by Allah." [42: 43]

    [Reference: Riyaad-us-Saliheen, Volume 2, The Book of the Prohibited Actions, Chapter 266, No. 1560, 1561]

    Allah the Exalted says,

    "And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear on themselves the crime of slander and plain sin." [33:58]


    Abdullah bin Amr bin Al-As reported: The Messenger of Allah :saw: said, "A (true) Muslim is one from whose tongue and hand the Muslims are safe; and a Muhajir (Emigrant) is he who leaves the deeds which Allah has prohibited) [Al-Bukhari & Muslim)

    Commentary: Everyone who professes Tawheed and acknowledges the Prophethood of Muhammad :saw:, is a Muslim, but a perfect Muslim is one who has attained that high level where he does not harm any Muslim with his hand and tongue (speech)...

    [Riyaad-us-Saliheen, Volume 2, Book of the Prohibited Actions, Chapter 268, No. 1565]


    See how Fearing Allah comes into all of this, i will look at Hadeeths in reference to Manners, Insha'Allaah and post back.

    Walaykum Salaam.
  11. MRasheed
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    MRasheed Junior Member

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    :wasalam:

    It is all one. But thanks for the effort.

    If you accept what someone has wrote as the truth without once questioning it's authenticity simply because it came from your favorite scholar, that is blindly following. Anything that comes from man should be scrutinized to make sure it is the truth no matter how famous or how many degrees or who his/her teacher was. To behave otherwise is to blindly follow.

    You will be okay, InshaAllah. Everybody in this thread has misquoted me in every single post and yet i am still alive. So trust me, it's not that big of a deal.

    I wasn't specifically speaking to you if you aren't doing what I was worrying over. I was speaking in general if it did not apply to you. Relax.

    Primarily because you were arguing for it. If that's the side you take what else am i going to think?

    I wasn't literally saying that's what you are doing, but you must admit there is a danger of a form of worship for those who do blindly follow their beloved scholars.

    I'm not accusing, just warning that that much devotion and faith in another human being is definitely walking a very slippery slope. Beware.

    I understand you NOW. But understand that will be the first time I've heard someone say that with that particular meaning. Usually it does mean you are referring to an individual specifically.
  12. MRasheed
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    MRasheed Junior Member

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    LOL!!

    I believe you, brother! (I'm glad you are not one of those who said they were not coming back! You are a fun debate partner. Thank you for being a good sport.)

    I do forgive you. it still stings a little though... :-(

    If you are not blindly following shaikhs and scholars without comparing their words to your own study of the Qur'an and authentic Sunnah, then I most humbly beg your forgiveness and my Lord's. Allah knows and we know not.

    I can't wait.
  13. ditta
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    ditta Alhamdu'Lillaah Staff Member

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    Assalaamu'Alaykum,

    Just to clarify a little more in relation to that "there you go", for example if i was talking about a serious event in the news and the conversation ended, i would say "there you go", in a tone which expresses my sadness to the act committed. Does that make sense?

    Anyway, i feel these two hadeeths cover the Obama aspect of him being a friend of the Muslims and about the Scholars.

    Buridah said: The Messenger of Allah :saw: said, “Do not address a hypocrite with the title of chief, (or similar titles of respect) for even if he deserves this title you will invite Allah’s Wrath by using it for him” [Abu Dawud]

    Commentary: A sinner does not deserve any respect. His respect amounts to inviting the Wrath of Allah. Hypocrites, innovators in religion, disbelievers, polytheists, atheists, heretics and those who disobey Allah and His Prophet :saw: fall in this category, and none of them deserve any respect. It is the Muslims, the pious and those who are faithful to Allah and His Prophet :saw: who are worthy of respect.

    [Riyaad-us-Saliheen, Volume 2, Book of the Prohibited Actions, Chapter 321 – Prohibition of conferring a title of honour upon a sinner, a hypocrite, and the like, No. 1725]

    Amr bin Al-As said: I heard the Messenger of Allah :saw: saying, “When a judge utilises his skill of judgement and comes to a right decision, he will have a double reward, but when he uses his judgement and commits a mistake, he will have a single reward. [Al-Bukhari & Muslim]

    Commentary: In such matters about which there is no clear command or instruction in the Qur’an and Sunnah, the problem is decided keeping in view similar and resembling cases. This mode of deciding about its being permitted or prohibited is called Ijtihaad.

    Evidently, this process can be employed by only such a person who has full command about the various branches of knowledge pertaining to Qur’an and Sunnah. Not every person can do it nor is supposed to do it. There is also a famous proverb that says: ‘Little knowledge is a dangerous thing.’

    From here we conclude that the ruler, judge or a bureaucrat in a Muslim country should be a learned scholar, i.e. an Alim well versed in Qur’an and Sunnah; so that he can interpret the laws of Islam with utmost care and in a befitting and sincere manner. He should do the job sincerely and with a pious intention. With such mode of work, he will be bestowed with reward in every case. However, if his interpretation is correct, he will receive a double reward.


    [Riyaad-us-Saliheen, Volume 2, The Book of Miscellanuous Ahadith of Significant Values, Chapter 370, no. 1856]

    I think its safe to say, me or you do not possess knowledge in all branches of the religion while the Scholars of the past do. It's important to distinguish between blind following and respect and love towards the Scholars. There is a section in Riyad-us-Saliheen titled - Revering the Scholars, Elders, Preferring them to others and raising their status - the tone in your posts seems to debase the Scholars of Islam.

    I just don't see your opinion of a particular aayah holding more merit to that of Ibn Kathir (Rahimahullaah). When you state that what he has said is incorrect it is insulting to those that seek to understand more of the Qur'an via his intrepretation. I and without doubt many others don't see this as blind following, why - because it is in accordance to the Qur'an and Sunnah. Ibn Kathir's interpretation has been correct for so long, i just don't see how you can post and say "No, he his wrong." That indirectly insults those that have used this interpretation to seek better understanding. Whenever i have read his Tafsir it has included Hadeeth's from the Prophet :saw:, the Companions, the Tabi'een and the generation after them. This is how i know that it is reliable.

    He isn't perfect and none of the Scholars are, this is known and not to be forgotten, but they are more well-versed in the Qur'an than me or you.

    There is another hadeeth which i would like to post, but i can't find it now, Subhaan'Allaah. This thread is sort of getting back on track, nothing more can be said in relation to the Scholars. You know, a good analogy of it would be this, you refer to the instruction manual if you are unsure in relation to the installation of an item, just like a Scholar of the religion, you refer to him in order to seek better understanding or seek words of advise, but you ensure in the process that you respect him for his knowledge but you avoid over-exalting his status.

    I hope this clear and i feel what has been said should be enough, unless i can find that Hadeeth i referred too.

    Walaykum Salaam.
  14. Zafran
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    Zafran Muslim Brother

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    salaam

    So i have read the whole thread and i think MRasheed is just going against everything most TTI members have said (and getting them upset even if they have a valid point), secondly this thread has gone off topic so there is no point in leaving this thread open.

    MRasheed is clearly not here to learn but just to refute everybody and anybody that goes against his view.

    SO MODERATORS CLOSE THIS THREAD.

    Peace and May Allah show mercy on all the muslims.
  15. Mairo
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    Mairo Maryama

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    Asalaamu aleikum brothers and sisters, and also special welcome to Brother MRasheed. I am glad that you have joined this forum. I, for one, appreciate your intelligently presented arguments and find your posts to be like a breath of fresh air. I look forward to your future contributions.

    So true. I embraced Islam fully about 4 years ago and have focused my learning during this time on studying the Qu'ran and example of our prophet. I think it is only with an understanding of these sources that we can find success in this life and the next. The scholars of Islam are valuable as well and we do owe a debt of gratitude to many of them. But this does not take away from the fact that each individual also has the obligation to increase in knowledge personally as well. This is one of the beautiful things about Islam. It is Allah who is the Guide, and he guides whosoever he pleases to the right path, and leaves whosoever he pleases astray. It is Allah alone who will decide how his ultimate mercy shall be dispensed, we have no say in the matter.

    Some other things to consider in the current debate going on in this thread is the history of the emigration of the early muslims from Mecca. One of the first places the early Muslims sought refuge was with the king of Ethiopia, who happened to be Christian. But the prophet, salla aleyhi wa salaam, was confident they would find refuge with him because of his reputation for being a just and fair ruler. And not only did they find refuge, but the King eventually became Muslim as well.

    Also, that we are commanded as Muslims to always to be just and fair, even when dealing with those who could be categorized as "enemies". There are many examples when Muhammad, peace be upon him, settled arguments by ruling in favor of a non-muslim who had actually been wronged by one of his muslim companions. It is important to be able to distinguish between right and wrong, and it is the Qu'ran that is the discrimination.

    And just another thought . . . wouldn't it be better to take the stance of considering what we can do to win opponents over to Islam, as that is what our dear prophet, salla aleyhi wa salaam, did. The prophet did not spend his time pointing out all the faults of those who were against him, rather he did everything he could to demonstrate mercy to all, and to extend the light of Islam to everyone. So many people who were initially his enemy became his closest friends . . . I have read countless stories of people went to him with the intent to kill him, but to their great surprise they became Muslim instead!

    And these kinds of stories still happen everyday, not too long ago I learned about the conversion of a woman who had been an enemy of Islam for many years, but thanks to muslims gently persisting with her, and because she finally sought to learn about Islam for herself instead of just blindly believing the lies she was told, she embraced Islam. Allah Akbar!


    Sorry for going off on a tangent here, but I hope there may be benefit to this contribution.

    May Allah Guide Us All on the Straight Path
  16. MRasheed
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    MRasheed Junior Member

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    :wasalam:

    Yes. It must be a United Kingdom thing. But it does sound closer to what I initially thought it meant. But we're cool.

    1.) A hypocrite is someone who is only pretending to be righteous... to be one of you... but he actually feels the opposite of what the righteous feel. Since no one here was able to provide proof of any sort at all that Obama isn't a genuinely good person, how could you possibly label him as a hypocrite without any sure knowledge? Only Allah knows the secrets of someone's heart. You are being very unfair.

    2.) Allah said that the flesh is weak by its nature, so all men are guilty of some kind of sin. But Allah said that He considers it vulgar to parade sin about publicly, and we are to cover the sins of others and focus on good (unless it is a serious matter of some type requiring swift and immediate legal action.) Allah Himself will cover the sins of those sincerely striving for right. Someone who has earned the title of "sinner" is one who sins openly and does not try to cover it. Obama has not earned this title either. This is also unfair.

    This hadith is rather obviously referring to a specific legal profession of Judge or Magistrate in which very specialized and extensive knowledge and training is required to perform correctly. Scholarly traits are merely one of the requirements for the profession of legal Judge. This hadith was not applicable to our topic, brother. Nice try though. All of us who seek knowledge and research for understanding are scholars. Sure some are more scholarly than others, but that does not automatically make you more righteous. It's not the number of books you read or what you understand or how deep that makes you a good person, it's what you DO. Who you help. How much you spend to help those less fortunate out of what Allah has bestowed upon you.

    I readily and enthusiastically agree.

    That is not the case. I am not debasing them by pointing out their human status. They are human are they not? I respect my Elders and I respect the skills and knowledge of scholars. But the only thing that separates mankind in Allah's sight is not scholarship or age, but righteousness. It is the righteous, those striving their hardest to please Allah and amass good deeds over bad, whose company I'm supposed to prefer. And the righteous can be of ANY age, and be possessed of ANY level of academic accomplishment...

    ...including being unlettered.

    Did you read the Ibn Kathir quote and the accompanying hadith in question? Look at it with a critical eye based on what the Qur'an said and honestly tell me that it was right. I'll wait.

    That does not mean they are not prone to mistakes just like you and I. It does not mean that Allah wishes for either of us to simply accept whatever they may say without question. That is a right reserved only for the Qur'an Itself, ditta.

    In my experience, most people who read the Qur'an and require someone else's opinion to make it clear, are actually seeking a loophole around something Allah has forbid that they enjoy doing. But this may not be the case in your country. I can only speak from my experience here. The Qur'an is crystal clear on every matter that the average man needs most to understand.
  17. MRasheed
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    MRasheed Junior Member

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    :wasalam:

    ALLAHU AKBAR!!

    I thank Allah for you, Sister Mairo! You are also a breath of fresh air! And Thank You!
  18. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Salaam,


    The topic is way off.

    Humble yourself. Humble yourself. This is the month to do so. Please get ready as did the Prophet, may the peace and blessings of Allah subhana talla be upon him, to fast.

    There is nothing intelligent left. This is not a breath of fresh air Sister Mario. He is attacking believers. Please be careful not to fall into his trap. He is splitting the members of this forum. We need to remain together.

    We are Muslims first...should you wisht to engage in debate I can reccommend several websites that do just that..poor things.

    we are warned about debating...let us heed to that.

    Our time is better spent in making dua and living as Muslims.

    It is time to close this. We have better issues to think about and deeds to do.

    Today is Jumma...Insha'Allah will open this mans heart and give him what he needs wisdom...which is more of a gift than intelligence...
  19. MRasheed
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    MRasheed Junior Member

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    :salam2:

    Upon re-reading this thread I have found that I was indeed in error about the Yahya reference. He was born before Isa therefore he is not considered to be inbetween him and the Prophet Muhammad (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon all of the Messengers). I apologize for writing that the hadith in question was wrong, as well as my writing that Ibn Kathir was wrong. I should have been more careful, and can only conclude it was the heat of the argument that befogged me.

    MRasheed <-----------:astag:

    I hope that the members who I offended who clearly saw that I was wrong will forgive me, and i pray that Allah Himself will forgive my oversight.




    However, do not get big heads over this little victory. This does not mean that my general argument was invalid. lol
  20. ditta
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    ditta Alhamdu'Lillaah Staff Member

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    Assalaamu'Alaykum,

    Dear Sister you are right, i was going to stop after my previous post as everything the brother brought up has been cleared up.

    Brother MRasheed stated it was a debate, to me it was sincere advise and nothing but. If i have fallen in the trap of debating then i ask Allah's forgiveness. I am still learning, so my posts will contain many errors, no doubt, but i pray to Allah to bestow upon my knowledge with correct understanding and avoid posting from my whims and desires.

    Let's return to the correct Aqeedah, Tawheed and ensure we try our best to understand them. Let us follow and stick with the Pious Salaf.

    This thread has hurt me a lot.

    May Allah guide us, bestow upon us beneficial knowledge and protect us from that which is evil.

    Ameen.

    I am blessed to have Brothers & Sisters who help me to distinguish the right from the wrong and assist me when i have difficulties.

    Walaykum Salaam.
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