salafism

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lovefordeen

Junior Member
assalaamu alaikum

i understand tomtom's doubts as he has just reverted to the truth subhan'Allah..

and it's likely that many muslims who have just reverted and others like me also be highly confused...in especially the newly reverts need guidance as it's highly likely that many may unknowingly fall into some sect...may Allah protect us all...

i suggest thariq to kindly start a new thread especially for reverts( and for us also) about madhabs,following the salaf,about deviant sects etc so that we are guided on the straight path and don't fall into any sect ...

jazaAllah khairan

assalaamu alaikum
 

Tomtom

Banned
about madhabs,following the salaf,about deviant sects etc so that we are guided on the straight path and don't fall into any sect ...

There you go prove my points, we don't need any scholar telling us what to believe, all we NEED is the Holy Qur'an and the Hadiths then we will have to make our own interpretation Insha'Allah.
 

Ershad

Junior Member
about madhabs,following the salaf,about deviant sects etc so that we are guided on the straight path and don't fall into any sect ...

There you go prove my points, we don't need any scholar telling us what to believe, all we NEED is the Holy Qur'an and the Hadiths then we will have to make our own interpretation Insha'Allah.

Assalamu Alaikkum brother,

There is a third component to it. We need to understand the Qur'an and the Hadith. But according to whose understanding? Our own? No. It has to be how the righteous predecessors understood it. The lack of this is why we have people understanding the verses based on their own understanding and making decisions. We have terrorists and oppressors quoting from Qu'ran as a reason for their deeds. And you know how the Islam haters understand it.

There is this guy, Tahir ul Qadri, he teaches his deviant beliefs to muslims and shows proof from Qur'an and hadith. He even brings proof for celebrating Mawlid and Christmas and also kissing the feet and hands. He says the Hadith of Imam Bukhari says so. Astagfirullah.

Now, the understanding of the Salaf is studied by scholars. That is why we take from them. I hope you understand. If you have more questions, please start a new thread for your questions since the thread starter is satisfied with the answers.
 

thariq2005

Praise be to Allah!
Tomtom: If you answer one single question, this will answer everything you need to know.

How do you know the Hadeeth is authentic? You do realize that Saheeh al-Bukhari was compiled by al-Bukhari (a scholar) who 'authenticated' the hadeeths there. Are you going to do an authenticity check of Saheeh al-Bukhaari? You are technically blind following al-Bukhaari without any proof from the Qur'aan nor sunnah.
 

Tomtom

Banned
Tomtom: If you answer one single question, this will answer everything you need to know.

How do you know the Hadeeth is authentic? You do realize that Saheeh al-Bukhari was compiled by al-Bukhari (a scholar) who 'authenticated' the hadeeths there. Are you going to do an authenticity check of Saheeh al-Bukhaari? You are technically blind following al-Bukhaari without any proof from the Qur'aan nor sunnah.

Well it was easier for Bukhari to collect the sayings of the Prophet (pbuh) after about 194 years after the death of the Prophet (pbuh) than for me at 1633 years. I know they are authentic because other people at the time concurred it's authenticity, they were probably already written down and all Bukhari did was put them together into what it is today.

A scholar is a human being like you and me and prone to mistakes like you and me. Ok they've probably been learning the Holy Qur'an and the Hadiths from an early age and probably ARE knowledgeable but that does not mean he can dictate his knowledge to me. As I have said before, a relationship between a man and God is a personal one. A guidance that I receive will not necessarily mean that you will receive the same guidance. We are to seek this personally by having a personal relationship Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala.

NO OFFENCE TO MOST MUSLIMS

But the vast majority follow blindly what somebody else says. By reading and contemplating on the Holy Qur'an one will be given knowledge and guidance by Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. This is gradual process and not an overnight thing. Some may not even receive this after years and years of servitude.
 

louise_soso

Junior Member
assalm alaykum

this is what i know of them....but God forgive me if anything i say is wrong....
here goes...

so salafism is a modern term for people who refer t themselfs as salafis

people who call themselves salafis say that they follow the prophet (pbuh) and the companions.

however we as muslims (in my opinion ) are not aloud to call ourselves or put ouselves into any group or sect as the quran says

"As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: their affair is with Allah: He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did " {surah 6 ayah 159 }

We are muslims and our relgion is islam



"
 

lovefordeen

Junior Member
Well it was easier for Bukhari to collect the sayings of the Prophet (pbuh) after about 194 years after the death of the Prophet (pbuh) than for me at 1633 years. I know they are authentic because other people at the time concurred it's authenticity, they were probably already written down and all Bukhari did was put them together into what it is today.

A scholar is a human being like you and me and prone to mistakes like you and me. Ok they've probably been learning the Holy Qur'an and the Hadiths from an early age and probably ARE knowledgeable but that does not mean he can dictate his knowledge to me. As I have said before, a relationship between a man and God is a personal one. A guidance that I receive will not necessarily mean that you will receive the same guidance. We are to seek this personally by having a personal relationship Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala.

NO OFFENCE TO MOST MUSLIMS


But the vast majority follow blindly what somebody else says. By reading and contemplating on the Holy Qur'an one will be given knowledge and guidance by Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. This is gradual process and not an overnight thing. Some may not even receive this after years and years of servitude.

assalaamu alaikum

it's not been that long after hijra ..i believe it's 1433 years after hijra....Allah knows best...

of course,we have to read and contemplate on the Qur'an...i think you have misunderstood...in sha Allah, i shall wait for brother thariq to answer your question...

assalaamu alaikum
 

Tomtom

Banned
assalm alaykum

this is what i know of them....but God forgive me if anything i say is wrong....
here goes...

so salafism is a modern term for people who refer t themselfs as salafis

people who call themselves salafis say that they follow the prophet (pbuh) and the companions.

however we as muslims (in my opinion ) are not aloud to call ourselves or put ouselves into any group or sect as the quran says

"As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: their affair is with Allah: He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did " {surah 6 ayah 159 }

We are muslims and our relgion is islam



"

Nicely put sister, this is why there is division within Islam today. We are first and foremost muslims who have submitted to our Maker Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. Why is there a need to stick labels on ourselves? This will breed envy and jealousy leading to people claiming that they are better than their brothers in Islam. All we need as muslims are the Holy Qur'an and the Hadiths.
 

strive-may-i

Junior Member
wa'alikum assalaam

i had requested this thread to be deleted as i got some of my doubts cleared and i was afraid of fights in this thread...the purpose of my thread had been achieved alhamdulilah...

why i asked about salafism is that in my place in malabar...we used to follow the shafi madhab..............................
..............................
................
........
..

jazakAllah khairan

assalaamu alaikum
:salam2:
Thats a very detailed report of state of affairs in one of oldest and important muslim region of world. More such detailed writeup of state of affairs around world would really be insightful to all of us here. May Almighty bless you for your effort.... Ameen!

I fear these getting out of control into something similar to the shia-sunni fights we hear from mesopotomian region! Yes it does make one wonder, whats the real motive behind such exercises(political?) The problem is aggravated by the fanboys who like to stick to labels/stereotyping. They take great pleasure in competing, rather than co-operating.

when a third person who is clueless in an area of knowledge listens/ sees two people who are knowledgeable in a given topic debate in a civil manner and end in disagreements, it creates more confusion in the third person, he is more likely to pick something out of sheer instinct and defend it to death...! (Its like taking a beneficial scientific breakthrough and nations making a weapon out of it)

When I was small, I heard a particular fanboy, almost violently refute everything madhab had to say in a basic salaat matter, because he was such n such follower! For such a common man, who has no time or patience, who lacks the faculty of reason to sit and talk, its best to stick to one school of thought and avoid street battles!

May Almighty give us the patience, May Almighty give our scholars the much needed unity of purpose.... Ameen!

Jazakallaahu Khairan
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

Time to help me think, please.

Given that there is a conference in the KSA at this time; I believe the brother posted in the News section there will be over 120 papers presented. Well, to a person like me, this is humongous. Think of the effort that has been undertaken to write a formal paper to be presented...well..for me that would be as pleasant as maybe getting husband number 3. Reading those papers, presenting the need for unity for Muslims, in clear and concise language, using the best of evidence so there is no counterargument, but concession..well it thrills me..what you guys would describe as a ride on a Magic Mountain roller coaster.

We need to understand the reasoning behind the need for this seminar. We need to delight in the fact that among all this craziness in the world..there is a group with a mission..Hello world..we have a solution..there is no political motivation..only a mission of Love...

Who could kindly provide me with a link as to what the papers present in terms of Salafi. Lets discuss what they are talking about. InshaAllah, we will all benefit.

Forgive me for the length of my post.
 

lovefordeen

Junior Member
:salam2:
Thats a very detailed report of state of affairs in one of oldest and important muslim region of world. More such detailed writeup of state of affairs around world would really be insightful to all of us here. May Almighty bless you for your effort.... Ameen!

I fear these getting out of control into something similar to the shia-sunni fights we hear from mesopotomian region! Yes it does make one wonder, whats the real motive behind such exercises(political?) The problem is aggravated by the fanboys who like to stick to labels/stereotyping. They take great pleasure in competing, rather than co-operating.

when a third person who is clueless in an area of knowledge listens/ sees two people who are knowledgeable in a given topic debate in a civil manner and end in disagreements, it creates more confusion in the third person, he is more likely to pick something out of sheer instinct and defend it to death...! (Its like taking a beneficial scientific breakthrough and nations making a weapon out of it)

When I was small, I heard a particular fanboy, almost violently refute everything madhab had to say in a basic salaat matter, because he was such n such follower! For such a common man, who has no time or patience, who lacks the faculty of reason to sit and talk, its best to stick to one school of thought and avoid street battles!

May Almighty give us the patience, May Almighty give our scholars the much needed unity of purpose.... Ameen!

Jazakallaahu Khairan

wa'alaikum assalaam


please don't consider what i wrote as a report..it's from a layman's observation..maybe someone else with more knowledge and a keener observation could tell enlighten us more in sha Allah...

i don't think people in malabar differ in the school of thought...i don't know what they actually differ in(due to my lack of knowledge)
.. .the sunnnis(the people call themselves this who haven't become salafis,jama'at islamis etc) have split to two groups(according to my limited knowledge),mujahids(that's what the salafis are called) have also got sub groups,there are jama'at islamis,tableegis,there's a new group called hijra committee and more...

i remember people believing eid ul fitr to be on two different days once when i was there..the two groups of sunnis celebrated eid on two different days(one group celebrated eid on one day and the others believed it was eid the next day)...

and i don't think in sha Alllah that there will be street fights there regarding this,because it's seen that sometimes,two members of the same family belong to two different groups..

and Allah knows best
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

Sister,

are you discribing a regional schism..I am confused.
Think of a Venn diagram. Sunnis follow the Salafi path.
 

Wannabemuslim

Junior Member
:salam2: Just a comment, the members of any sect will tell you something like "well our sect isnt a sect, its just following islam". And seeing how all sects have this view point, yet another reason there should not be sects in islam. I will back up my arguement with the holy quran if it becomes necessary.
 

strive-may-i

Junior Member
:salam2:

'ism' is a double edged sword.
[Think salafism, wahhabism etc...]

Many so called salafist fanboys are madhab followers infact, and only in certain matters, they tend to lean towards Quran/sunnah. A salafi from pakistan would fall back to hanafi, from egypt would fall back to shafi, infact if we were to bring these two in a room, they are bound to have difference of opinion...

If one sticks to one of four established school of thought, one would not end up doing shirk, thats for sure... Something new does come up for which madhab scholars in past have not passed a religious ruling, and in such matters scholars are needed/ new fatwas required. The underlying thought is - there is no need to reinvent the wheel. [This is how I understand it ].

Its natural for revival scholars who come up every few years to not stick to any madhab, because they need to address and fix the deviations from around world...
 

strive-may-i

Junior Member
Assalaam walaikum,
Sister,
are you discribing a regional schism..I am confused.
Its something similar to the arab mosque, paki mosque thing , Salafi mosque, sunni mosque!
Most would get confused. Infact the really knowledgeable think its moot to draw hard lines and start a battle. So it become very important for the Scholars to act responsible and not just dig again n again in matters that have been settled in fiqh written in past [very few would need a re validation or renewed ruling], but address in matters concerning common man relevant to present times.

Assalaam walaikum,
Think of a Venn diagram. Sunnis follow the Salafi path.
:)
Nah, venn diagrams are rather two dimensional and old style. We need three dimensional objects/ videos, that animate to show the 3-D objects coalesce/ bombard at point of contact to explain the phenomenon out there. :p
 

strive-may-i

Junior Member
Quote - the problem with Anti-Madhabism

Surely we don't need madhabs and sectarianism in Islam, how about just the Holy Qur'an and the Hadiths? Simple?

And why do we have to follow any scholar? We should all attain knowledge ourselves from the Holy Qur'an and the hadiths, Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala has told us that He will grant us knowledge and wisdom if we seek it. The scholars inadvertantly add their 'opinion' to their philosophy. So ignore the scholars, they are human beings just like you and me.
:salam2:

Well for matters like farl Salat , there is not much difference in opinion at high level. When it gets to specifics differences are seen. And hence a methodology to codify the details of practise for a simpleton Muslim, these methodologies have evolved into school of thought. Its not malevolent as its made out in 21st century. The scholars of past, were at peace with it.

And from what I know , from what I have learnt, Madbabs is not equal to secterianism. There was unity and cohesion in these school of thoughts.

Here is a write up that almost echoes everything i have been taught, it goes beyond what i would have said and covers it in detail ... UNDERSTANDING THE FOUR MADHHABS-the problem with Anti-Madhabism: *EDITED*


Highlighted Excerpts from that write up
The ummah's greatest achievement over the past millennium has undoubtedly been its internal intellectual cohesion. From the fifth century of the Hijra almost to the present day, and despite the outward drama of the clash of dynasties, the Sunni Muslims have maintained an almost unfailing attitude of religious respect and brotherhood among themselves. It is a striking fact that virtually no religious wars, riots or persecutions divided them during this extended period, so difficult in other ways.
....
..
It was at that time, too, that the attitude of toleration and good opinion between the Schools became universally accepted. This was formulated by Imam al-Ghazali, himself the author of four textbooks of Shafi'i fiqh,[36] and also of Al-Mustasfa, widely acclaimed as the most advanced and careful of all works on usul, usul al-fiqh fil madhhab. With his well-known concern for sincerity, and his dislike of ostentatious scholarly rivalry, he strongly condemned what he falled ‘fanatical attachment to a madhhab’.[37] While it was necessary for the Muslim to follow a recognised madhhab in order to avert the lethal danger of misinterpreting the sources, he must never fall into the trap of considering his own school categorically superior to the others. With a few insignificant exceptions in the late Ottoman period, the great scholars of Sunni Islam have followed the ethos outlined by Imam al-Ghazali, and have been conspicuously respectful of each others madhhab. Anyone who has studied under traditional ulama will be well-aware of this fact.[38]

The evolution of the Four Schools did not stifle, as some Orientalists have suggested,[39] the capacity for the refinement or extension of positive law.[40] On the contrary, sophisticated mechanisms were available which not only permitted qualified individuals to derive the Shariah from the Quran and Sunnah on their own authority, but actually obliged them to do this. According to most scholars, an expert who has fully mastered the sources and fulfilled a variety of necessary scholarly conditions is not permitted to follow the prevalent rulings of his School, but must derive the rulings himself from the revealed sources. Such an individual is known as a mujtahid,[41] a term derived from the famous hadith of Muadh ibn Jabal.[42]

Few would seriously deny that for a Muslim to venture beyond established expert opinion and have recourse directly to the Quran and Sunnah, he must be a scholar of great eminence. The danger of less-qualified individuals misunderstanding the sources and hence damaging the Shariah is a very real one, as was shown by the discord and strife which afflicted some early Muslims, and even some of the Companions themselves, in the period which preceded the establishment of the Orthodox Schools. Prior to Islam, entire religions had been subverted by inadequate scriptural scholarship, and it was vital that Islam should be secured from a comparable fate.
~Abdal-Hakim Murad
 

lovefordeen

Junior Member
Assalaam walaikum,

Sister,

are you discribing a regional schism..I am confused.
Think of a Venn diagram. Sunnis follow the Salafi path.

wa'alaikum assalaam

i was describing to you the so many different groups that we have now...yes,all these groups i have mentioned are sunnis
 

lovefordeen

Junior Member
Its something similar to the arab mosque, paki mosque thing , Salafi mosque, sunni mosque!

:p

i have heard of sunnni and salafi mosque(back in my place),but not arab mosque,paki mosque..
alhamdulilah,i don't think there's anything like this where i live now ...
everybody offers salat side by side masha'Allah

Allah knows best
 
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