Saudi women to get vote

[Asja]

Assalaam walaikum,

Be careful about making generalizations.

There are many scholars who are of the opinion that a man must marry a born Muslim before a revert.

Many reverts still carry-over many of the ideas of the duyna. This can lead to problems in marriage.

I am struck by the fact that men want to marry non-Muslim European sisters. The reversion is after the marriage or for the sake of the marriage. Which lends to meeting prior to the marriage .I find it funny. Here we are discussing Saudi women voting..and the brothers justify marrying a woman of the man who is an enemy of your sisters. Look at the French and Swiss at this moment.

We really should start focusing on our brothers. It is time for them to wake up.

Brothers what are you doing..you are not manning up.

Assalamu allaicum wa raahmatullah wa barakatuhu

Dear sister please be carefull with your words for the sake of Allah. Marriage is moral and religious act in Islam Alhadmulillah and it is right and duty of all Muslims who are able to marry, does not metter are they born Muslims or they have accepted Islaam.

It is not good to generaise things and seperate born Muslims and our new Muslim brothers and sisters, because we both are Muslims and the only difference between us is in our deeds and how much we are close to Allah with practising Islam.

As you have said that many reverts Muslims carry things of Dunya, Alhadmulilah we all do worry for Dunya things and there is nothing wrong in that. Islam is putting accent and importnance of Dunya and Islam is responding on all human needs Alhadmulillah. Even if new Muslims are still not so strong in their eman, there are aslo many born Muslims who are far away from Islam and the right path. Is this mean that they should never marry and fullfill their half of eman for the sake of Allah and for the sake of keeping their chasity? Alhadmulillah, Allah subhanahau wa teala gave marriege for all people and made it like obligation and right of every human being,and duty of spouses in marriage is exactly to help and support each others in strenghtening their eman and building good and strong Muslim family.

There is no any rulling in Islam which sais that one should marry new or born Muslim but that piety is the most importante Alhadmulilah.

May Allah forgive me if I said something wrong and may Allah guide us all. Allahume Ameen

Assalamu allaicum wa raahmatullahi wa baarakatuhu

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

You are correct there is no ruling. But, many scholars have the opinion that Muslim men should marry born Muslims first. I did not make the opinion.

The brother in a response posted that many Muslim brothers prefer the European revert to the born Muslim sister. He made reference to sisters in Algeria.

I was questioning this. Many brothers meet women of the duyna. They reversion happens because of the marriage. Why do the brothers feel the need to go seek kuffir women to marry and revert.

I simply wrote that it is noteworthy that countries like France and Switzerland are targeting Muslim women yet, the brothers are marrying European women. The kuffir men are targeting Muslim women yet the brothers are going into the duyna and marrying these women.

I do not know what is in the heart of a person. And these women are fortunate to accept Islam. That is not the issue I am concerned about.


Sister, please read my words carefully. Why are the brothers going to the women of the kuffir to marry and revert. What do they find so wrong with Muslim sisters. That was the only question I had.

What this has to do with Saudi women voting is beyond me.

 

[Asja]

Assalaam walaikum,

You are correct there is no ruling. But, many scholars have the opinion that Muslim men should marry born Muslims first. I did not make the opinion.

The brother in a response posted that many Muslim brothers prefer the European revert to the born Muslim sister. He made reference to sisters in Algeria.

I was questioning this. Many brothers meet women of the duyna. They reversion happens because of the marriage. Why do the brothers feel the need to go seek kuffir women to marry and revert.

I simply wrote that it is noteworthy that countries like France and Switzerland are targeting Muslim women yet, the brothers are marrying European women. The kuffir men are targeting Muslim women yet the brothers are going into the duyna and marrying these women.

I do not know what is in the heart of a person. And these women are fortunate to accept Islam. That is not the issue I am concerned about.

Sister, please read my words carefully. Why are the brothers going to the women of the kuffir to marry and revert. What do they find so wrong with Muslim sisters. That was the only question I had.

What this has to do with Saudi women voting is beyond me.

Wa Allaicumu saalam

Dear sister, I have red carefully your words Alhamdulilah and I understand the part of your post in which you said that Muslim man should not marry a kaffir woman and on that way leave Muslim sisters unmarried.

But I was not refering on this sister, but I was refering on the part of your post which you have said ( where Schoolars said) that it is better that Muslim man marry a born Muslimah rather than new Muslimah.

Alhadmulilah we respect opinion of truthfull Schoolars of Islam but if that is not in accordaince with Quran and Sunnah Alhadmulilah we have right to disssagree with that,and Schoolars are aslo human and are making mistakes, Alhadmulillah. In Islam the most importante is piety and character of one spouse, and it should not be never the most importante is that new or born Muslim, because Alhadmulilah once our new brothers and sisters accept Islam they are equal for us the same like born Muslims.

We are one Ummah Alhadmulillah and we should never seperate ourselves on any base, but be one Ummah Inshallah.

I do understand sister that it is not your opinion but if we shared opinion of others we are responsable for our words, because we do not know how are words can effect on someone, although I belive that your intentions were not wrong dear sister.

May Allah forgive me if I said anything wrong and I am sorry for going out of topic.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Sweet sister,

I am not seeking the Displeasure of Allah. Please forgive me.

What has me so concerned is this. We are, including me, seeking solutions to what we consider to be major issues in Islam today.

Let me digress for a minute. I,was blessed, by teaching Islamic Studies to grades 5-12 to the most beautiful young Muslim women. They are energetic, intelligent, obedient and fun. When they misbehaved I assigned them the wife number. A young lady I assigned wife number 3. She was too silly to be wife number one. And too cute to be wife number 2. And I was not going to give her the benefit of being wife number 4. We laughed so much, I was weeping.

The first day of class I assigned everyone a grade. Everyone got an A. I asked them if they knew how I could see in their hearts how much they Loved Allah. So the all got A's.

Sister, we can not put a value on Islamic Studies. Dumb old me thought that was what all Believers do. Study our faith each day. Which brings me back to this post.

We are doing our best in these discussions to understand the vast and colorful world of Islam. We are trying to understand what is real and what is not real. We share what knowledge we have.

A better question to have is why is there some consensus among scholars regarding marrying born Muslims and what evidence do they have from hadeeth and Quran.

Here is a question: Given that Saudi have to marry Saudi, where is the evidence for that?

 

[Precious Star]

It doesn't matter what the scholars say. What is a scholar, anyway?

What matters is what the Quran says. Does the Quran make a distinction between a "revert" muslim and a "born muslim"?? Who are we mere mortals to be making such arbitrary distinctions? Weren't everyone in the time of the Prophet Muhammad SAW revert muslims?

We're getting into dangerous territory when we start classifying muslims. I for one do not like Pakistani Muslims (even though I am one myself). I think the men and their mothers are obsessed with fair-skinned, skinny, doe-eyed princesses -- especially the "natural born muslims" amongst them. If that isn't obsession with Dunya then I don't know what is. But I also know that there are many other Pakistani muslims who are...ok (I guess).

My point is, there is absolutely no validity or benefit in "classifying" muslims. If Allah SWT did not make such distinctions then as His slaves were are not permitted to do so either.

 

[esperanza]

Assalaam walaikum,

You are correct there is no ruling. But, many scholars have the opinion that Muslim men should marry born Muslims first. I did not make the opinion.

The brother in a response posted that many Muslim brothers prefer the European revert to the born Muslim sister. He made reference to sisters in Algeria.

I was questioning this. Many brothers meet women of the duyna. They reversion happens because of the marriage. Why do the brothers feel the need to go seek kuffir women to marry and revert.

I simply wrote that it is noteworthy that countries like France and Switzerland are targeting Muslim women yet, the brothers are marrying European women. The kuffir men are targeting Muslim women yet the brothers are going into the duyna and marrying these women.

I do not know what is in the heart of a person. And these women are fortunate to accept Islam. That is not the issue I am concerned about.


Sister, please read my words carefully. Why are the brothers going to the women of the kuffir to marry and revert. What do they find so wrong with Muslim sisters. That was the only question I had.

What this has to do with Saudi women voting is beyond me.

dear sister,yes we have digressed from the issue of women voting..and i am part to blame,,,

i think it is not that he meant brothers had a problem with sisters from his country..but that it is beoming harder to marry women ,as women arab women beome more demanding....wanting a certain standard of level ,certain material things,whicch some men do not have,,,,,,and iknow this is an increasing problem

and he was pointing out tha some new reverts are more pious than some born muslims,many born muslims are moving further to western values,and many reverts are returning to true islam

and remeber if a brother casn bring a western woman to islam,thats surely a good thing

may Allah forgive me if ihavee said something wrong or upser anyone

 

[Asja]

Assalaam walaikum,

Sweet sister,

I am not seeking the Displeasure of Allah. Please forgive me.

Sister, we can not put a value on Islamic Studies. Dumb old me thought that was what all Believers do. Study our faith each day. Which brings me back to this post.

A better question to have is why is there some consensus among scholars regarding marrying born Muslims and what evidence do they have from hadeeth and Quran.

Here is a question: Given that Saudi have to marry Saudi, where is the evidence for that?

Wa allaicumu saalam wa raahmatullah wa barakatuhu

Alhdmulillah dear sister, and may Allah reward you for your fear of Allah and may Allah be pleased with you always as Muslimah and His Servant. Ameen ya Rabby .May Allah forgive me if I said any wrong words.

Dear sister, there are diffrent kind of Schoolars and some may make mistake intentionally or not intentionally and they words can be against Quran and Sunnah Alhamdulillah. As Muslims we know that we should not seperate ourselves on the base of colour, race, origin or are we born or new Muslim. Alhamdulillah we are not Muslims because we are born like that or because our parents are Muslims, but we are Muslims because we choose Deen of Allah and because of our deads. And Allah knows the best.

I was only trying to explain this dear sister, that there should not be seperation in our Ummah and that born Muslims and new Muslims are only diffrent in thier deads and their truth faith and practise of our deen Islam.

I aslo feel very sad to see that dear sister and that Saudia Arabia is not allowing Muslims who are not of " Saudi" origin to become citizens of their country,and I do not understand how one Muslim country can not allowed that. But as we all know reason for this is corumpt goverment of Saudia Arabia and not yet existence of pure Shariah Law. But they will respond to Allah for that like we all will Inshallah and everyone will respond infront of Allah for his duties.

May Allah guide our Muslim Ummah to the right path. Ameen :tti_sister:

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

But, Sister,

I am not calling anyone corrupt. I am only asking for the evidence that some have opined regarding marriage.

I am not speaking as an authority. However, become we accuse anyone it is better to seek the reasoning behind the opinion.

And I question how the Saudi's marry only Saudi. Where is the reasoning that is Islamic behind that.

What you are misunderstanding is that many brothers date; have relations with women before they marry the woman and she reverts. She reverts to marry the brother. The non-Muslim woman meets the brother in the duyna. The relationship stems outside the deen. It is only marriage that brings the couple back to the deen. Does that make it clear.

 

[Asja]

Assalaam walaikum,

But, Sister,

I am not calling anyone corrupt. I am only asking for the evidence that some have opined regarding marriage.

I am not speaking as an authority. However, become we accuse anyone it is better to seek the reasoning behind the opinion.

And I question how the Saudi's marry only Saudi. Where is the reasoning that is Islamic behind that.

What you are misunderstanding is that many brothers date; have relations with women before they marry the woman and she reverts. She reverts to marry the brother. The non-Muslim woman meets the brother in the duyna. The relationship stems outside the deen. It is only marriage that brings the couple back to the deen. Does that make it clear.

Wa allaicumu saalam

I aslo do not know answer for this questiion dear sister. But I only know that there is not yet pure Shariah Law in Saudia Arabia. May Allah guide them.

There are every kind of Muslims and among them are those who only have a Muslim names, and Allah knows the best does some sister accept Islam for her husband or honestly for Allah. Sister we do not know that and Alhamdulillah we should not judge something that we do not know.

And Allah subhanahu wa teala knows the best.

 

[esperanza]

Assalaam walaikum,

But, Sister,

I am not calling anyone corrupt. I am only asking for the evidence that some have opined regarding marriage.

I am not speaking as an authority. However, become we accuse anyone it is better to seek the reasoning behind the opinion.

And I question how the Saudi's marry only Saudi. Where is the reasoning that is Islamic behind that.

What you are misunderstanding is that many brothers date; have relations with women before they marry the woman and she reverts. She reverts to marry the brother. The non-Muslim woman meets the brother in the duyna. The relationship stems outside the deen. It is only marriage that brings the couple back to the deen. Does that make it clear.

dear sister,im sorry but not totally true,,
yes sadly many brothers date,before marrying
but dont assume that women revert just to marry the brother....
we are not that shallow
i understand your pint,but try to see the other side

before iwent to university iknew nothing of islam
at university i met many muslims,one of them was my husband
had inot had contact wiht muslims,god only knows how my life would have tuned out,not good thats for sure

i did not become muslim ,just to marrry him,it was a choice for my life
but had inot met him imught never have been a muslim:shymuslima1:

 

[esperanza]

Wa allaicumu saalam

I aslo do not know answer for this questiion dear sister. But I only know that there is not yet pure Shariah Law in Saudia Arabia. May Allah guide them.

There are every kind of Muslims and among them are those who only have a Muslim names, and Allah knows the best does some sister accept Islam for her husband or honestly for Allah. Sister we do not know that and Alhamdulillah we should not judge something that we do not know.

And Allah subhanahu wa teala knows the best.

thank you sister for your reply..you cannot know if the sister accepts islam for her husband or for the sake of Allah
do you think of one day i dovorced and returned to the west ,thay then iwould stop being a muslim??!!!!

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

I do not wish to be misunderstood. I am basically thinking. I am trying to find the rationale for the driving, the votes, the only marring Saudi's; the plight of born Muslims sisters. In no way am I trying to start any disputes. That would not serve us well.

I just want understanding of the issues.

 

[Asja]

thank you sister for your reply..you cannot know if the sister accepts islam for her husband or for the sake of Allah
do you think of one day i dovorced and returned to the west ,thay then iwould stop being a muslim??!!!!

:salam2:

You are most welcome and may Allah reward you dear sister for your kindness.:shymuslima1:

Alhmadulillah we do not know other hearts and did some sister accept Islam for her husband or for Allah but Alhamdulillah we can only judge by deads that we see and Allah knows the best.

Alhamdulilah dear sister that one is taking his or her eman in heart and any place we live or we go, we are Muslims.

May Allah bless you

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Sisterss..

Did you find the evidence for the scholars or do I have to dig it up. We can not make assumptions without facts.

 

[sclavus]

Praise be to Allah,

Sister Aapa, you put yourself in deep trouble with the revert sisters... Consider how calmly and thoughtfully they replied, that's part of what I was talking about.

I know that scholars warn against marrying non-believing women but I've never heard them say that natives are better than reverts. No generalization can be made based upon that criterion.

The most important thing that should be considered is piety. And it is a rare precious pearl even amongst native Muslim women.

O mankind! Lo! We have created you male and female, and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another. Lo! the noblest of you, in the sight of Allah, is the best in conduct. Lo! Allah is Knower, Aware. Al-Hujurat, 13.

An Arab is no better than a non-Arab, and a non-Arab is no better than an Arab; a red man is no better than a black man and a black man is no better than a red man – except if it is in terms of taqwa (piety)…” Reported by Imaam Ahmad.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Brother,

I just pointed out that there are scholars who believe with sound reason not to marry non-believing women.

I just pointed out that for many, not all revert sisters, they met the brother in a haraam environment. They reverted for the sake of marriage. And one responder agreed.

Why would I be in deep trouble with the revert sisters. Some of the most pious women I know are reverts.

You are the one who is making the generalizations.

Yet, these revert sisters are the ones who most adamant about not following Sunna and plural wives. I find that funny. They are still stuck on the misconceptions of marriage from the duyna. It takes years and years to be rid of the misconceptions from the duyna.

If you like European women..that is up to you. It does not give you the right to try and chastise my thinking.

Brother, you are the one who does not like the Algerian sister. Why? You say she is trying to be like the European sister. But you prefer the European sister?

All, I am saying is it would make more sense to follow the Sunna, especially in critical times when sisters are suffering. Brother, what are you doing to help the sisters?

I am not in deep trouble. Thank you but I believe they are strong sisters who have sense to understand where I am coming from.

I have seen too many divorces. And the brothers leave the revert sisters hanging with children and marry the girls from home. Go figure.

 

[strive-may-i]

Let the thread discuss the topic

Now what does it really mean to saudi with its half population getting their right to vote?
What good will it bring to soceity?
What is Saudi Govt doing to educate/brainwash by doubling voting population?
Would the Saudi women be different from other women in rest of world who have a right to vote?
Are saudi men casting their vote with greater society good in mind? Or are they also thinking about Individiual gains and exercising ballot?
Is good deep thought applied before a person exercise his ballot right?

I wish the thread direction is reset to topic from this post. Let the TTI members from saudi talk. Rest will first listen . Lets not beat the same old topic again n again please......

 

[esperanza]

Assalaam walaikum,

Brother,

I just pointed out that there are scholars who believe with sound reason not to marry non-believing women.

I just pointed out that for many, not all revert sisters, they met the brother in a haraam environment. They reverted for the sake of marriage. And one responder agreed.

Why would I be in deep trouble with the revert sisters. Some of the most pious women I know are reverts.

You are the one who is making the generalizations.

Yet, these revert sisters are the ones who most adamant about not following Sunna and plural wives. I find that funny. They are still stuck on the misconceptions of marriage from the duyna. It takes years and years to be rid of the misconceptions from the duyna.

If you like European women..that is up to you. It does not give you the right to try and chastise my thinking.

Brother, you are the one who does not like the Algerian sister. Why? You say she is trying to be like the European sister. But you prefer the European sister?

All, I am saying is it would make more sense to follow the Sunna, especially in critical times when sisters are suffering. Brother, what are you doing to help the sisters?

I am not in deep trouble. Thank you but I believe they are strong sisters who have sense to understand where I am coming from.

I have seen too many divorces. And the brothers leave the revert sisters hanging with children and marry the girls from home. Go figure.

dear sister..sorry but in one paragraph your saying many reverts met their husbands in haraam environments ,and in the other that they are most pious
and about plural marriages..the brother told you most sisters in his environment would not accept ,yet there are westerners who do
and among rthe arabs iknow few if any would accept plural marriages,yet iknow a number of reverts who have done that..so be ]careful on generalizations,

and istill stick to my pint.,there are many many unmaried brothers,arabs asians westerners,in saudi alone thousands from every muslim country,let them retrun to heir ountires and marry sisters from there..that would be a good start....

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

And I will simply stick to my point...brothers wake up...look around you and abide by the Sunna.

I am not taking about the nonsense of romantic love..I am discussing an economic crisis.

I am trying to understand why we drift so far from the solutions that are within our grasps. We complicated everything so much.

Think..some of the pious sisters who are reverts are not necessarily married.

Yes, brother

There is no participation from the Saudi sisters. And I am questioning the same thing that you are...what are they voting for..males or females...

No, the thread needs direction. We are straying from what we know to be correct. Its all there for us. We have the answers for us. We just need a strong Believer to speak up. A strong brother.

 

[sclavus]

Assalaam walaikum,

Why would I be in deep trouble with the revert sisters. Some of the most pious women I know are reverts.

My apologies, sister.

It was meant to be a joke. I know for sure you're not in trouble with the two sisters who replied. I didn't expect that reaction from you, really.

I told sister esperanza what I know of to be the truth, religiously talking, I don't care about the rest. I know full well how revert sisters are treated by my people in European countries, I don't need any further information.

I wasn't talking about that aspect of the matter. I do not live in Europe, I do not intend to live there, I do not intend to marry a convert. What I'm looking for is hidden somewhere in my own place, I'll not find it in any other place.

And just to mention our Algerian sisters, it's not that we do not want to marry them but rather the contrary. I'm really angry with them. So please, if you know of any, tell them instead what they can do for us...

Regards.

Assalaamo alaykom.