The Obligation of Reciting Al Faatihah Behind the Imaam

[Aziboy]

of course I have an emaan as to what Allaah - The Most High said, "ask the people of knowledge if you do not know."

So you compare asking scholar to Taqleed?

We no doubt follow our deen with the understanding of the Salafi, and they have been made it clear what is saheeh and what is innovated.

Please do not reply im out finally

 

[Itqan Ullah]

:salam2:

Brother, if we are not mujtahid which scholars are, then we are blind followers. It is not bad due to the saying of Allaah - The Most High, "ask the people of knowledge if you do not know." So it is obligatory upon us.

Akhi, coming to the bolded part - you say take it if it is as per Qur'an and Sunnah.

How will you verify if the scholar's saying is as per Qur'an and Sunnah. When you have no means to verify it, you just follow what he gives. I.e. if the scholar says its saheeh, you say it is saheeh. That is blind following indeed. Infact, we all follow Bukhari, Muslim and other than that and say this is saheeh and that is not.

Asslamaliekum,
Bro, asking a fatwa from ulema is not taqleed. There is a difference between taqleed and itteba (i hope i wrote the correct spelling), blindly following implies sticking to a particular view even after a clear proof has been established against it. In which case a person should be humble enough to retract from it.
Yup, true there is nothing wrong with following a madhab but once a proof has been established person has no right to say "no no i cant raise my hand before ruku coz im a hanafi even though hadith is in bukhari and there are ten sahaba narrating it... "
For this particular issue I don't find there it comes under a clear category to understand so no problem i personally don't have any problem if anyone sticks to any view.

For further details:

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May Allah (swt) forgive if i said anything wrong due to my very limited knowledge.

 

[Ershad]

Asslamaliekum,
Bro, asking a fatwa from ulema is not taqleed. There is a difference between taqleed and itteba (i hope i wrote the correct spelling), blindly following implies sticking to a particular view even after a clear proof has been established against it. In which case a person should be humble enough to retract from it.
Yup, true there is nothing wrong with following a madhab but once a proof has been established person has no right to say "no no i cant raise my hand before ruku coz im a hanafi even though hadith is in bukhari and there are ten sahaba narrating it... "
For this particular issue I don't find there it comes under a clear category to understand so no problem i personally don't have any problem if anyone sticks to any view.

For further details plz google "taqleed qsep" and watch the short clip by dr. Abdullah al farsi on qsep channel.
And google "follow prophet blindly not imam abu hanifa abu mussab wajdi akkari" and watch the clip.
May Allah (swt) forgive if i said anything wrong due to my very limited knowledge.

P.s sorry can't link coz im on mobile.

Walaykkum assalam Akhi..

Ittiba is different. We strive to do ittibba of Prophet :saw2: and all scholars do ittiba of him :saw2:. Asking a fatwa based on the hadeeth that the scholar would narrate and then you follow it, it is taqleed and it is permissible.

If a person does not know what is legislated, he can asking the person whom he trusts in knowledge and piety and follow him. That is not blameworthy.

What is blameworthy taqleed, is when proofs are established to you and it becomes clear to you that the evidence is against the view that you were following and you still follow the view.

We are out of taqleed only if we are able to derive our own rulings directly from Qur'an and Sunnah. Anything else is taqleed.

You can read about The prohibited and the permissible taqleed here - http://abdurrahman.org/sunnah/theprohibitedpermissible.html .

 

[Itqan Ullah]

OK Jazakallah Khairan... I meant by taqleed -- absolute taqleed, but seems maybe I was mistaken in some respect. So sorry bout that..

 

[Ershad]

OK Jazakallah Khairan... I meant by taqleed -- absolute taqleed, but seems maybe I was mistaken in some respect. So sorry bout that..

Its okay brother. Even I used to think that I am not doing taqleed. All of us make mistakes and correct ourselves.

One more thing is we shouldn't belittle others even in the issue of taqleed or even, if we have knowledge more than the other person.

Best way is to advice kindly rather than censure someone.

Baarakallahu feekum

 

[Ayyub]

Assalamou AlaikoumWa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh

There is a very benifical lecture about Taqleed and Ittiba by Shaykh Sa'ad Al Schithri hafidhahullah with english translation where he explains this issue in a simple way for everyone.

Lecture

Wa'alaikoum assalm wa rahamatullahi wa barakatuh

 

[al-fajr]

Assalamu'alaykum,

OK Jazakallah Khairan... I meant by taqleed -- absolute taqleed, but seems maybe I was mistaken in some respect. So sorry bout that..

What is blameworthy taqleed, is when proofs are established to you and it becomes clear to you that the evidence is against the view that you were following and you still follow the view.

It's not even a requirement to do this, to look at evidences and proofs at your own discretion, this will get you nowhere.

You can't be a part time muqallid, its one of those definitive things, you are either in the category, or you are not. It's not a stigma, it's the legitimate reality for lay people, a requirement for 'the masses'.

Just take a look at the quote from the site itself:

Imaam Ahmad bin Hanbal, rahimahullaah, said: "How strange it is that a people who know the chain of narratiuon of a hadeeth (isnaad) and its authenticity, yet still they follow the opinion of Sufy aan [ath-Thawree]; even though Allaah, the Exalted, said..

Imaam Ahmed rahimahullaah mentions a people who 'know the chain of narration' i.e. they knew the isnaad and its authenticity, after that they went against it.

Applying this to people of today, the population of this forum for example, I'd be surprised if one of us could recite an isnaad to start off with, even if you could recite it, do you then have the skills required in jarh wa ta'deel to evaluate the extent to which the narration is valid? Nope.

So ..ittiba (critical following) to be 'critical' would require the skills of ijtihaad in the first place, how an individual can be legitimately critical without the same knowledge and skills the Mujtahids would have in order to do this, is beyond me.

Wa-alaykum assalam wa rahmatullaah

 

[Ershad]

Walaykkum assalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu,

Sister, I think you misunderstood me. I never said part time muqqallid. If you see my previous post, I did say you are always a blind follower until you reach the level of ijtihaad.

What I meant is Shaykh A says this is his opinion and this is my evidence from hadeeth for it and Shaykh B has a opinion and doesn't have evidence at all and the person recognizes Shaykh A's opinion to be truth in his heart. Then abandoning Shaykh A and following Shaykh B would be blameworthy. Isn't it?

 

[Tabassum07]

:salam2:

Could someone give an answer to my question - I think my post got lost somewhere up there.

When praying behind an imam, when the imam *silently* recites the Surah after Al-Fatiha, do we have to recite a surah of our own, or simply remain silent??

 

[thariq2005]

Thank you so much for the Honor, you mean to say unless you become a scholar, you are a blind follower, huh?

Yes, you are brother :- ) You may think that you are not doing Taqleed, but quite sadly you are living in a bubble- the quicker you come out of your bubble the better for you. And if you are so dishonoured by the fact that you are a Muqallid, then tread the path of seeking knowledge and become a scholar till the point you can do ijtihaad.

So apart from all the scholars of Qur'an and Sunnah the rest are all blind followers... BAD FATWA indeed.

This is not my fatwa, this is the understanding of the scholars and in fact the understanding of the salafi scholars whom you claim to follow.

So what do you mean by Taqleed?
Placing something around the neck, which encircles the neck. Technically it means: Following he whose sayings is not a proof (hujjah).

That is one of the definitions given by scholars regarding Taqleed and it is correct.

O you who believe! Obey Allâh and obey the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allâh and His Messenger (SAW), if you believe in Allâh and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination. [Al-Qur'an 4:59]

Yes I agree, and this is not in contradiction with taking the verdicts of the scholars who are trustworthy.

"Indeed the people of Truth and the Sunnah do not follow anyone [unconditionally] except the messenger of Allaah SAW, the one who does not speak from his desires - it is only revelation revealed to him."

[by Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah, Majmoo'ah al-Fataawaa, vol 3, page 216,
Daar Ibn Hazm Print, Trans: Aboo 'Abdis-Salaam]

Don't quote Ibn Taymiyyah on this, for his fataawa will go against what you believe. Surprise surprise, here is what Ibn Taymiyyah said about Taqleed: "And that which the majority of the Ummah are upon is that ijtihaad is permissible in general and taqleed is permissible in general. Ijtihaad is not obligated upon everyone whilst taqleed forbidden; neither is taqleed obligated upon everyone whilst ijtihaad forbidden. Rather, ijtihaad is permissible for the one who has the ability, and taqleed is permissible when ijtihaad cannot be performed."

I totally agree that we should not pass our own ruling but rather ask the Ulema or Scholars and when it is as per the Qur'an and Sunnah we have to take it

You are actually giving your own ruling by saying that it is wrong to do Taqleed. I quoted you various salafi `Ulemaa whom you consider as scholars, giving this ruling.

Over to you... im out

It is fine you leave this thread, but you shouldn't have commented in the first place about issues which you have no knowledge of. I told you previously, answer the following question and I will prove to you that you are doing Taqleed in shaa'Allaah and you will answer it if you truly want to understand this topic. Here is the question again:

Where do you place your hands in Salaah (i.e. when you are standing) and what are the evidences? Once you answer this question, I will show you how you do taqleed in shaa'Allaah.

Asslamaliekum,
Bro, asking a fatwa from ulema is not taqleed. There is a difference between taqleed and itteba (i hope i wrote the correct spelling), blindly following implies sticking to a particular view even after a clear proof has been established against it. In which case a person should be humble enough to retract from it.

Wa `alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaah

To be honest it is just a superficial difference between Taqleed and Ittibaa`. As it has been previously re-iterated that the layman is not able to deduce any sort of rulings from ahaadeeth. He, in fact, blindly follows the understanding of the scholars of that Hadeeth... that's all really.

Let me give you and example:

The Mas'alah of going hands down or knees down in sajdah- Many of the salafi brothers take the opinion that it is sunnah to go hands down into sajdah and they say so because they say that the narrations of going knees down is weak. Is this weak according to their understanding? No, rather it is weak according to a group of salafi scholars whom they trust. So in actual fact, they follow the opinion of going hands down first due to the fact that shakh al-Albaanee authenticates those narrations and not because they are able to understand the narrations themselves. The fact that they follow shaykh al-Albaanee's grading of the hadeeth is clear-cut taqleed.

So whether the layman sees the evidence or not, it doesn't really help him much apart from a bit of self-contentment. Thus a layman is not even required to look at the evidences.

What I meant is Shaykh A says this is his opinion and this is my evidence from hadeeth for it and Shaykh B has a opinion and doesn't have evidence at all and the person recognizes Shaykh A's opinion to be truth in his heart. Then abandoning Shaykh A and following Shaykh B would be blameworthy. Isn't it?

The layman has a choice. If he believes that shaykh B is more knowledgable and more pious and even though he did not give evidence but yet follows shaykh B- then he is not blameworthy. If he chooses to follow shaykh A, then he is not blameworthy as well.

It is not upon the scholar to give the laymen evidences. He may give it if he wishes.

:salam2:

Could someone give an answer to my question - I think my post got lost somewhere up there.

When praying behind an imam, when the imam *silently* recites the Surah after Al-Fatiha, do we have to recite a surah of our own, or simply remain silent??

Wa ` alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaah

I thought it was already answered.

You recite a soorah after al-Faatihah. To say that one should NOT recite requires proof as the default is that a person recites when the Imaam is silent.

As for when the Imaam goes into rukoo`, then you follow the Imaam as following him is waajib.

 

[Ershad]

The layman has a choice. If he believes that shaykh B is more knowledgable and more pious and even though he did not give evidence but yet follows shaykh B- then he is not blameworthy. If he chooses to follow shaykh A, then he is not blameworthy as well.

It is not upon the scholar to give the laymen evidences. He may give it if he wishes.

Assalamu Alaykkum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu,

The evidence is not the only catch that I was mentioning. Btw, it is not about giving the evidence rather having an evidence for the opinion. Because, every opinion should have some evidence from Qur'an and Sunnah though the layman need not have knowledge of it. If Shaykh B does not have an evidence for his opinion and the layman knows this fact and if the person believes and knows that Scholar A's opinion is the truth in his heart, is he allowed to make taqlid of Shaykh B's opinion in that issue?

That is what is blameworthy.

 

[thariq2005]

Assalamu Alaykkum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu,

The evidence is not the only catch that I was mentioning. Btw, it is not about giving the evidence rather having an evidence for the opinion. Because, every opinion should have some evidence from Qur'an and Sunnah though the layman need not have knowledge of it. If Shaykh B does not have an evidence for his opinion and the layman knows this fact and if the person believes and knows that Scholar A's opinion is the truth in his heart, is he allowed to make taqlid of Shaykh B's opinion in that issue?

That is what is blameworthy.

Wa `alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh

Well it requires more tafseel (detail) than just that. If it is something in which scholars have had a valid dis-agreement and he chooses to follow shaykh B, then it is fine. Just because shaykh B does not give evidence does not mean there is NO evidence for that view. As mentioned previously, the layman is not required to know the proofs. Him following shaykh B or shaykh A is up to him. As long as he follows shaykh B due to his righteousness and knowledge, then it is fine.

It comes down to each individual to deal with the fact that is he following shaykh B due to his inability of doing ijtihaad and trust of the shaykh or is it because of following his desires. If he follows shaykh B due to whims and desires, then this is something else. If he knows that shaykh B is not very trustworthy and is very negligent in giving out verdicts then he does not follow his views, because the layman is to follow the shaykh he believes will be more closer to the truth.

However, if the layman feels that the arguements of shaykh A are strong and more convincing and at the same time shaykh A is righteousness and trustworthy, he may follow him if he wishes.

 

[Ershad]

Wa `alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh

Well it requires more tafseel (detail) than just that. If it is something in which scholars have had a valid dis-agreement and he chooses to follow shaykh B, then it is fine. Just because shaykh B does not give evidence does not mean there is NO evidence for that view. As mentioned previously, the layman is not required to know the proofs. Him following shaykh B or shaykh A is up to him. As long as he follows shaykh B due to his righteousness and knowledge, then it is fine.

It comes down to each individual to deal with the fact that is he following shaykh B due to his inability of doing ijtihaad and trust of the shaykh or is it because of following his desires. If he follows shaykh B due to whims and desires, then this is something else. If he knows that shaykh B is not very trustworthy and is very negligent in giving out verdicts then he does not follow his views, because the layman is to follow the shaykh he believes will be more closer to the truth.

However, if the layman feels that the arguements of shaykh A are strong and more convincing and at the same time shaykh A is righteousness and trustworthy, he may follow him if he wishes.

Baarakallahu feekum for the clarification. I just had this doubt since you told me that the previous time we discussed about it. Now, its clear. Jazaakallahu khairan.

 

[Itqan Ullah]

Asslamaliekum warahmatullahi wabrakatu,
I am bit confused, can you please clarify these questions for me:

1. How does a lay a person know wheather a difference is permissible or not? I mean where does he get definition and categorisation of a permissible difference?
2. Can there be taqleed in matters of aqeedah? (The reason why I am asking this is coz I have seen sufis claiming call to salafiyyah with symbolic intrepretation of Allah (swt) attributes. So how does a layman know which is true path of salaf?)
3. If a person is practising sufism in ignorance becoz everyone he met during his lifetime was a sufi, is he classified under alhe sunnah wal jamah or otherwise?
Jazakallah Khairan

 

[thariq2005]

Asslamaliekum warahmatullahi wabrakatu,
I am bit confused, can you please clarify these questions for me:

1. How does a lay a person know wheather a difference is permissible or not? I mean where does he get definition and categorisation of a permissible difference?
2. Can there be taqleed in matters of aqeedah? (The reason why I am asking this is coz I have seen sufis claiming call to salafiyyah with symbolic intrepretation of Allah (swt) attributes. So how does a layman know which is true path of salaf?)
3. If a person is practising sufism in ignorance becoz everyone he met during his lifetime was a sufi, is he classified under alhe sunnah wal jamah or otherwise?
Jazakallah Khairan

Wa `alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh

1) The layman is not required to know. If he believes a scholar is trustworthy and rigtheous he follows him. And if he advises another layman about the opinion he holds, and the other person mentions he follows another view that is based on the ijtihaad of another trustworthy scholar. Then you leave it at that.

For example: You follow the opinion of shaykh al-Albaanee that it is sunnah to go down hands first in sajdah and I follow ibn `Uthaymeen's view that it is sunnah to go knees down first. So, you advise me that it is sunnah to go hands down first and I tell you that I believe it is sunnah to go knees down according to what Ibn `Uthaymeen said. Then you do not go any further to debate this issue with me. You may show me the evidences, but if I still want to follow shaykh ibn `Uthaymeen because I believe he is knowledgable and I still follow him- that's fine.

2) No, there is no taqleed in matters of `Aqeedah. The `Aqeedah of the layman is to believe in the 6 pillars of Eemaan and this is Fard al-`Ayn upon every layman. The `aqeedah of the deviants is something that goes against the consensus of the Salaf and thus not permissible to follow them in their deviation. Allaah has preserved the `Aqeedah of Ahl al-Sunnah from the time of the Prophet :saw2: up till now, as for differences of opinion is the Furoo` (i.e. the secondary issues), then there has existed differences of opinion from the time of the Sahaabah till now. The fundamentals of Islaam can never have differences of opinion as it has been agreed upon by the Ummah. Also all the four imaams were upon the `Aqeedah of the Salaf.

3) Depends on what he believes in. If he believes in deviated matters and the deviations have been made clear to him as something that is deviant and he still fanatically follows the deviated matters- then such a person is a deviant himself. If he just claims to be a sufi, but his beliefs are upon fitrah- then you cannot really consider him a deviant.

 

[Itqan Ullah]

OK, Barakallah Feekum.

 

[thariq2005]

Baarakallahu feekum for the clarification. I just had this doubt since you told me that the previous time we discussed about it. Now, its clear. Jazaakallahu khairan.

Yeah I re-read that thread now, jazaakAllaahu khayraa for bringing it up. Perhaps what I mentioned was a bit vague, but I said this:

What is blameworthy upon him is: When a person is following a view (in which ijtihaad is permissible) of his madh-hab and another opinion comes to him that is clearly backed up with the Qur'aan and Sunnah and this person recognizes this to be the truth in his heart- but yet sticks to the opinion of his madh-hab.

The key point is him recognizing it to be the truth. If shaykh B does not give evidence, the layman can still recognize him to be a scholar trustworthy and closest to the truth and thus follow him.

 

[thariq2005]

I would just like to mention that I only wanted to post the other opinion, regarding not reciting al-Faatihah in the loud prayers (behind the imaam), so as to show that when there is a valid difference of opinion amongst scholars- then they differ due to the evidences in the Qur'aan and sunnah and the understanding they entail. People are free to follow either of the opinions, as long as they are content with whatever is closer to the truth.

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I just watched brother Abu Mus`ab's video and I have to say he is wrong and mistaken. The brother is has some great videos and may Allaah preserve him and bless him in his da`wah, but he has clearly misunderstood the issue of Taqleed and the scholars understanding of Taqleed is not the same as his.

I will have to also point out that he is a student of knowledge, probably in his beginning of seeking knowledge and not a scholar. We should refer to scholars who are well grounded in Usool al-Fiqh, Fiqh etc. regarding these matters.

WAllaahu A`lam

 

[Hammy]

:salam2:

i dont understand brother tariq why you creating confusions??? When Prophet (saww) himself said do not recite anything except Al-Fatiah, then why you coming up with your confused opinions... you said you not being harsh, but indeed you are....


Your Quite: Don't quote Ibn Taymiyyah on this, for his fataawa will go against what you believe. Surprise surprise, here is what Ibn Taymiyyah said about Taqleed: "And that which the majority of the Ummah are upon is that ijtihaad is permissible in general and taqleed is permissible in general. Ijtihaad is not obligated upon everyone whilst taqleed forbidden; neither is taqleed obligated upon everyone whilst ijtihaad forbidden. Rather, ijtihaad is permissible for the one who has the ability, and taqleed is permissible when ijtihaad cannot be performed."

really surprising a quote without reference.... if agreed this for the sake of argument than now if you consider this that majority of people are on same track than they are rightly guided than what about those who follow different religion, let say Christians or Hindus (Idol Worshipers) so according to you they are on true path, as they are in majority, don't you??? why you calling people Layman when it can be a possibility that the other person may be knowledgeable than you... you said layman has a choice but what if the truth has reached him/her? if still he reject than he will neither find helper nor protector against the Wrath of Allah...

Your quote:

2) They quoted the hadeeth of Abu Hurayrah, as narrated by Imaam Muslim, as evidence:

إنما جعل الإمام ليؤتم به فإذا كبر فكبروا، وإذا قرأ فأنصتوا
"The Imaam has only been appointed so that he is followed. When he says the takbeer, then say the takbeer and when he recites, then remain silent

and then you showed us about Mossa (as) Du'a, suddenly out of the blue which is irrelevant to the topic cuz i am sure you are smart enough to identify what do you mean by Du'a and Prayers....

4) They weakened the narratiion narrated by Abu Dawood and others, which was quoted above:
In another hadeeth on the Prophet (sallAllaahu alaihi wasallam)
where he (sallAllaahu alaihi wasallam) said,

“Perhaps you all recite behind your Imaam?”

They replied, “Yes O Messenger of Allah.”

He (sallAllaahu alaihi wasallam) said,

“Do not do so except with the opening of the book (i.e. Al
Faatihah).”

have you find this narration to be weak?? than tell me on what basis you verified this?

You simply calling other blind followers and you are going nowhere with your claim and simply adding confusions in people's mind who really need help.... i am sure you must be a follower of one of the Imam... let me know than we'll talk accordingly InshAllah and plssss don't come up with that statment "I a Muslim", we know that but unfortunately there are huge number of them who are just Muslims not true Muslims... if you know what i am talking about....

 

[thariq2005]

:salam2:

i dont understand brother tariq why you creating confusions??? When Prophet (saww) himself said do not recite anything except Al-Fatiah, then why you coming up with your confused opinions... you said you not being harsh, but indeed you are....

Wa `alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaah

Creating confusion? You are saying as although the opinion that I posted (held by the majority of scholars) was based on whims and desires. I quoted various evidences- so what is the problem you are having?

I have to say, you are the one who seems utterly confused.

really surprising a quote without reference

Perhaps if you had kindly asked me to provide the reference then I would have by the permission of Allaah, instead of you being hasty and saying that the quote has no reference.

Here is the Arabic of the quote firstly:

الذي عليه جماهير الأمة أن الاجتهاد جائز في الجملة ، والتقليد جائز في الجملة ، وأن الاجتهاد جائز للقادر على الاجتهاد ، والتقليد جائز للعاجز عن الاجتهاد

Reference: Majmoo` al-Fataawa (20/204)

(To save you the hassle of finding the quote, I found you a link online to Majmoo` al-Fataawa where the quote is available: http://www.islamweb.net/newlibrary/display_book.php?flag=1&bk_no=22&ID=2038)

.... if agreed this for the sake of argument than now if you consider this that majority of people are on same track than they are rightly guided than what about those who follow different religion, let say Christians or Hindus (Idol Worshipers) so according to you they are on true path, as they are in majority, don't you??

Firstly, Ibn Taymiyyah mentioned majority of the Ummah.

Secondly, by majority of the ummah he means the scholars of Islaam.

Thirdly, he mentioned "Jamaaheer" as opposed to "Jumhoor"- which not only means the vast majority but rather it means it is close to a consensus!

why you calling people Layman when it can be a possibility that the other person may be knowledgeable than you...

A layman can only be called a layman. It is like asking me, why are you calling the apple an apple?!? Do you expect me to address the people of this forum as scholars of the highest eminence?

I never said that I am more knowledgable than the other person, did I? And I think many of the members in this forum and in this very thread are far more knowledgable than me ma shaa'Allaah. I am nothing but a layman amongst all you laymen :- ) May Allaah increase us all in beneficial knowledge.

you said layman has a choice but what if the truth has reached him/her? if still he reject than he will neither find helper nor protector against the Wrath of Allah...

The layman blind follows the scholar who he believes to be closer to the truth.

and then you showed us about Mossa (as) Du'a, suddenly out of the blue which is irrelevant to the topic cuz i am sure you are smart enough to identify what do you mean by Du'a and Prayers....

That is because:

1) Soorah al-Faatihah is a du`aa that is why it is legislated to say Aameen.

2) Moosa `alahis-salaam made du`aa

3) The scholars mention that Allaah accepted the du`aa for both Moosa and Haaroon (even though Haaroon did not utter the du`aa)- and this was because Haaroon was a Mu'ammin (i.e. one who said Aameen when the du`aa was made).

4) Based on the above 3 points, the scholars mentioned that the recitation of al-Faatihah will be counted as a recitation for the Ma'moom as well.

4) They weakened the narratiion narrated by Abu Dawood and others, which was quoted above:
In another hadeeth on the Prophet (sallAllaahu alaihi wasallam)
where he (sallAllaahu alaihi wasallam) said,

“Perhaps you all recite behind your Imaam?”

They replied, “Yes O Messenger of Allah.”

He (sallAllaahu alaihi wasallam) said,

“Do not do so except with the opening of the book (i.e. Al
Faatihah).”

have you find this narration to be weak?? than tell me on what basis you verified this?

I already mentioned previously that Imaam Ahmad weakened the narration as mentioned by Ibn Taymiyyah. I am not at the level of verifying chains of narrations- that job is left to the scholars and I just blindlyfollow the verification of trustworthy hadeeth scholars.

If you expect me to verify it, then I ask you- how did you find out that this narration is authentic? Did you verify its authenticity?

I am not asking anyone to accept the opinion that I posted. Rather, I only posted it as something that serves as information to people, so they can understand that scholars differ based on evidences from the Qur'aan and Sunnah and not because they are following their whims and desires.

If you feel that the opinion I posted is confusing, then you don't need to follow it. If you are comfortable in blind following IslamQA, that is fine. And if I am comfortable in following another scholar, then I should be allowed to as well and so should anyone else.

You simply calling other blind followers and you are going nowhere with your claim and simply adding confusions in people's mind who really need help....

And by you claiming that laymen do not blind follow, you are not going anywhere either with that claim. In fact, it adds to confusion and disaster when laymen start taking the Qur'aan and Sunnah and start deriving rulings by themselves.

And on that point I would like to ask you: If we are to not follow scholars, do you claim that every layman should derive rulings from the Qur'aan and Sunnah?

i am sure you must be a follower of one of the Imam... let me know than we'll talk accordingly InshAllah and plssss don't come up with that statment "I a Muslim", we know that but unfortunately there are huge number of them who are just Muslims not true Muslims... if you know what i am talking about....

I am a Muslim :- )