Wa `alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaah
Creating confusion? You are saying as although the opinion that I posted (held by the majority of scholars) was based on whims and desires. I quoted various evidences- so what is the problem you are having?
I have to say, you are the one who seems utterly confused.
:lol: .... you are too much brother... calling others blind followers, confused... i should say that you are a "Shaykhul Islam"... you talk like you are getting revelations from Allah (swt)... i think you are an insance guy...
Your Quote: Perhaps if you had kindly asked me to provide the reference then I would have by the permission of Allaah...
well who are you??? Prophet?? Messenger?? what??? by the permission of Allah?? what do you mean by this??? instead you should say if its Allah's will... Oho!! the revelation guy... not to forget... you should stated your earlier comments with ref and well if you don't believe in Salafis than why you taking Ibn Tehmiyya (rh) for your defence???
and you changing your statement from majority of people to majority of scholars... if not than you should have stated that earlier... Gotcha bro....
let me tell you "Mr Shaykhul Islam", a scholar is also a Layman than he learn to become a scholar.... now what is your opinion of an apple is changed to a different category... failed again....
Your quote: The layman blind follows the scholar who he believes to be closer to the truth.
I would beg to differ.... a person goes to different scholars and when their answer is from Qur'an and Sunnah perspective that person is NOT BLIND FOLLOWING...
Surah Fatiah is Du'a... accepted... but the whole Salaah is dua.... but you cannot give an example of Prophet Moosa (as) to clear your claim... you going off topic to claim your point here... they were not in a state of Salaah that time...
Your Quote: 4) Based on the above 3 points, the scholars mentioned that the recitation of al-Faatihah will be counted as a recitation for the Ma'moom as well.
Wow!! a Layman talks like Scholar... why not "Mr Shaykhul Islam" gets revelation...
Your Quote: I am a Muslim :- )
No "Mr Shaykhul Islam" you are for sure a "Muqallid"....
The Obligation of Reciting Al Faatihah Behind the Imaam
- Thread starter afrarzk
- Start date
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thariq2005
Praise be to Allah!
I would just to remind you that you are posting on a public forum, so at least be smart enough to:
1) Not make yourself look silly by trying to make (not-so) funny jokes.
2) Remember that Allaah will take you to account for every word you write here.
Don't know what exactly you mean by that. Just for the record, I quoted many salafi `ulemaa from contemporary times regarding the issue of Taqleed.
I quoted quite a few scholars on this thread. You seem to be just speaking from your 'own understanding' of Islaam, which no one is in need of- JazaakAllaahu khayraa. You are free to follow your own version of Islaam anyday, but please don't come on a public forum trying to push your own understanding of Islaam on others.
So, the different scholars (For example) say that a hadeeth is authentic and he takes it from them. On what basis is he NOT blind following? Because he just took the grading of scholars without understanding it himself.
Before you post anything, I asked you two questions in my previous post and I would like you to answer them. If you are not going to answer them, then it is pretty pointless to have even a basic discussion with you.
Here are the two questions again:
1) Not make yourself look silly by trying to make (not-so) funny jokes.
2) Remember that Allaah will take you to account for every word you write here.
Don't know what exactly you mean by that. Just for the record, I quoted many salafi `ulemaa from contemporary times regarding the issue of Taqleed.
I quoted quite a few scholars on this thread. You seem to be just speaking from your 'own understanding' of Islaam, which no one is in need of- JazaakAllaahu khayraa. You are free to follow your own version of Islaam anyday, but please don't come on a public forum trying to push your own understanding of Islaam on others.
So, the different scholars (For example) say that a hadeeth is authentic and he takes it from them. On what basis is he NOT blind following? Because he just took the grading of scholars without understanding it himself.
Before you post anything, I asked you two questions in my previous post and I would like you to answer them. If you are not going to answer them, then it is pretty pointless to have even a basic discussion with you.
Here are the two questions again:
I would just to remind you that you are posting on a public forum, so at least be smart enough to:
1) Not make yourself look silly by trying to make (not-so) funny jokes.
Funny joke... Huh! you are a joke brother... ask anyone...
2) Remember that Allaah will take you to account for every word you write here.
Aahh!!! now pls don't remind me this... it doesn't suits from the mouth of a "Muqallid"...
I am not going to answer any questions unless you tell me which Imam you follow? it would be vain otherwise, cuz Muqallid's are partly "MUNKARE HADEES"... not only you pointing with your doubts to those great scholars of time but even to great personality like Imam Bukhari (rh). Imam Muslim (rh) and and all... those guys made a collection of Sahih and Weak... but a Muqallid will never know... cuz he is a Muqallid...
You people always follow the Weak Narrations and assume that to be Sahih and say Weak to the Sahih Hadith... I knew very well how Muqallids deal with people, you people follow the polciy: "IF YOU CAN'T CONVINCE, CONFUSE THEM!!! if you are not answering which Imam you follow than i guess its time for you to pack your bags and leave this thread.... cuz you are NOT WORTH IT!!!
thariq2005
Praise be to Allah!
Aziboy
Banned
Assalam Alaykum Brother Hammy,
This guy has done his homework in confusing the readers well in the name of scholars
Let me tell this so called confuser [muqallid
] that "Our view is that it is upon every Muslim to follow that which Allaah, the Most Perfect, commanded in His Book and in the Sunnah of His Messenger sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam. This is the purity of Islaam and the true reality of faith. No Muslim can ever be displeased with following what comes from Allaah and His Messenger; as He, the Most Perfect, said:
"The only saying of the Believers, when they are called to Allaah and His Messenger sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam to judge between them, is: We hear and we obey. They are the ones that are successful."
[Soorah an-Noor 24:51].
And Allaah said concerning the Hypocrites:
"And when it is said to them: Come to what Allaah has revealed and to the Messenger; you see the Hypocrites turn away from you in aversion."
[Soorah an-Nisaa 4:61].
So following the Book and the Sunnah is obligatory, and it should be made the fundamental goal for every Muslim; this is the path that should be traversed. However, the people are of differing types with regards to understanding and comprehension. So from them is the ignorant one (jaahil) who does not understand the meanings of the Glorious Book and the noble hadeeth ; nor does he have the ability to deduce [rulings] from them; nor can he comprehend what is sought from them. From them is the scholar who has understanding (fiqh) of the Verses and the hadeeth and is aware of what rulings can be deduced from them; he has the ability to deal with the apparent differences between them; and he understands the Arabic language and its ways. And from them are those that are [at a level] between this.
They are not ignorant; nor do they have the understanding to derive rulings; nor do they have the ability to understand what is being indicated to by the text; rather, they have some knowledge, awareness, understanding and contemplation. However, they do not reach the level of the scholar and the one who has penetrating insight of the Book and the Sunnah. So these are the levels of the people; and between them there are many varying grades. The scholars call the first type of people muqallidoon, the second type are technically referred to as mujtahidoon, and the third type are technically referred to as muttabi’oon."
Al-Imam al-Nawawi says: “What is dictated by the evidence is that a person is not obliged to adhere to a Madhab; rather he should ask whoever he wishes.”
Ibn Qawan al-Shafi’i says in his al-Tahqiqat, “The truth is that it is not incumbent to adhere to a Madhab; Rather, a person should ask whoever he likes, but without seeking allowances (tatabbu’ al-rukhas).”
Mulla ‘Ali al-Qari al-Hanafi says (as reported by al-Ma’sumi): “It is not obligatory upon anyone from the Ummah to be a Hanafi, or a Maliki, or a Shafi’i, or a Hanbali; rather, it is obligatory upon everyone, if he is not a scholar, to ask someone from Ahl al-Dhikr (people of knowledge), and the four Imams are from amongst the Ahl al-Dhikr.”
Ibn al-Humam al-Hanafi says in his Tahrir (as quoted by al-Ma’sumi): “Adhering to a particular Madhab is not obligatory, according to the correct opinion, since nothing becomes obligatory, except that which Allah and His Messenger has commanded; and Allah and His Messenger did not oblige anyone to adhere to the Madhab of any particular individual from the Ummah, to make Taqleed of all that he says and to leave the sayings of everyone else. Surely, the blessed generations passed without obliging anyone to adhere to a particular Madhab.”
Ibn Taymiyah says: “If a Muslim faces an event without precedence, then he should ask the one he believes issues verdicts in accordance with Allah’s and His Messenger’s Shari’ah, irrespective of which Madhab he is from. It is not incumbent upon any Muslim to make Taqleed of a particular person amongst the scholars in everything he says” - to his words - “For one to follow someone’s Madhab due to his incapacity to find out the Shar’i ruling from other than him, then that is only permissible, and not something obligatory upon everyone if it becomes possible for one to obtain the knowledge of Shar’ through different means. In fact, everyone is obliged to fear Allah to his utmost, and seek the knowledge of what Allah and His Messenger have ordained, so that he may perform the ordered and abstain from the prohibited.”
And ALLAH knows the best.
Would request everyone to stop the unwanted conflicts, I've already mentioned not to reply but those who are breaking the Divine laws can break anything and go to any extends.
O ALLAH guides and Protect us from the Deviants and the people those who are adhering to a specific madhaab which is Haram as it is not commanded by the Al-Mighty and our beloved Prophet Muhammad sal Allahu Alayhi wassalam... Ameen!
O Allah! Grant Victory to Your religion, Your book, and the Sunnah of Your prophet, and Your monotheist slaves... Ameen!
May ALLAH's grant peace and blessing be upon his messenger, his family and his companion.
Ma'Salam
This guy has done his homework in confusing the readers well in the name of scholars
Let me tell this so called confuser [muqallid
] that "Our view is that it is upon every Muslim to follow that which Allaah, the Most Perfect, commanded in His Book and in the Sunnah of His Messenger sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam. This is the purity of Islaam and the true reality of faith. No Muslim can ever be displeased with following what comes from Allaah and His Messenger; as He, the Most Perfect, said:"The only saying of the Believers, when they are called to Allaah and His Messenger sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam to judge between them, is: We hear and we obey. They are the ones that are successful."
[Soorah an-Noor 24:51].
And Allaah said concerning the Hypocrites:
"And when it is said to them: Come to what Allaah has revealed and to the Messenger; you see the Hypocrites turn away from you in aversion."
[Soorah an-Nisaa 4:61].
So following the Book and the Sunnah is obligatory, and it should be made the fundamental goal for every Muslim; this is the path that should be traversed. However, the people are of differing types with regards to understanding and comprehension. So from them is the ignorant one (jaahil) who does not understand the meanings of the Glorious Book and the noble hadeeth ; nor does he have the ability to deduce [rulings] from them; nor can he comprehend what is sought from them. From them is the scholar who has understanding (fiqh) of the Verses and the hadeeth and is aware of what rulings can be deduced from them; he has the ability to deal with the apparent differences between them; and he understands the Arabic language and its ways. And from them are those that are [at a level] between this.
They are not ignorant; nor do they have the understanding to derive rulings; nor do they have the ability to understand what is being indicated to by the text; rather, they have some knowledge, awareness, understanding and contemplation. However, they do not reach the level of the scholar and the one who has penetrating insight of the Book and the Sunnah. So these are the levels of the people; and between them there are many varying grades. The scholars call the first type of people muqallidoon, the second type are technically referred to as mujtahidoon, and the third type are technically referred to as muttabi’oon."
Al-Imam al-Nawawi says: “What is dictated by the evidence is that a person is not obliged to adhere to a Madhab; rather he should ask whoever he wishes.”
Ibn Qawan al-Shafi’i says in his al-Tahqiqat, “The truth is that it is not incumbent to adhere to a Madhab; Rather, a person should ask whoever he likes, but without seeking allowances (tatabbu’ al-rukhas).”
Mulla ‘Ali al-Qari al-Hanafi says (as reported by al-Ma’sumi): “It is not obligatory upon anyone from the Ummah to be a Hanafi, or a Maliki, or a Shafi’i, or a Hanbali; rather, it is obligatory upon everyone, if he is not a scholar, to ask someone from Ahl al-Dhikr (people of knowledge), and the four Imams are from amongst the Ahl al-Dhikr.”
Ibn al-Humam al-Hanafi says in his Tahrir (as quoted by al-Ma’sumi): “Adhering to a particular Madhab is not obligatory, according to the correct opinion, since nothing becomes obligatory, except that which Allah and His Messenger has commanded; and Allah and His Messenger did not oblige anyone to adhere to the Madhab of any particular individual from the Ummah, to make Taqleed of all that he says and to leave the sayings of everyone else. Surely, the blessed generations passed without obliging anyone to adhere to a particular Madhab.”
Ibn Taymiyah says: “If a Muslim faces an event without precedence, then he should ask the one he believes issues verdicts in accordance with Allah’s and His Messenger’s Shari’ah, irrespective of which Madhab he is from. It is not incumbent upon any Muslim to make Taqleed of a particular person amongst the scholars in everything he says” - to his words - “For one to follow someone’s Madhab due to his incapacity to find out the Shar’i ruling from other than him, then that is only permissible, and not something obligatory upon everyone if it becomes possible for one to obtain the knowledge of Shar’ through different means. In fact, everyone is obliged to fear Allah to his utmost, and seek the knowledge of what Allah and His Messenger have ordained, so that he may perform the ordered and abstain from the prohibited.”
And ALLAH knows the best.
Would request everyone to stop the unwanted conflicts, I've already mentioned not to reply but those who are breaking the Divine laws can break anything and go to any extends.
O ALLAH guides and Protect us from the Deviants and the people those who are adhering to a specific madhaab which is Haram as it is not commanded by the Al-Mighty and our beloved Prophet Muhammad sal Allahu Alayhi wassalam... Ameen!
O Allah! Grant Victory to Your religion, Your book, and the Sunnah of Your prophet, and Your monotheist slaves... Ameen!
May ALLAH's grant peace and blessing be upon his messenger, his family and his companion.
Ma'Salam
Ershad
Junior Member
Assalamu Alaikkum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu,
Brother Hammy and Brother Azimax, I do not know why you discredit Br. Thariq's statements when he is just reiterating what the Ulema of the Salaffiyyun, past and contemporary have said.
Imâm Ibn ‘Abdil-Barr : “The narrations that forbid Taqlîd, are not in regards to the laymen. The laymen are obliged to follow their scholars blindly when something happens. None from amongst the scholars say anything else.” (al-Jami’ 2/228)
Do you take from Shaykh Al-Albaani, Shaykh Ibn Uthaymeen, Shaykh Ibn baaz, and Shaykh Al-Fawzaan? I do. If you believe in their statements, here is something for you:
Shaykh Al-Albaani:
Shaykh Al-Fawzaan:
[yt]pWqh9fHjEPs#![/yt]
[yt]xnYaYz4SU5k[/yt]
[yt]OdkZHpe4JvQ[/yt]
Baarakallahu feekum. And brother Azimax, Adhering to a Madhab is not obligatory. I don't think Br. Thariq ever said that. You can take from any scholar you trust. It is just that till the time you are not qualified for ijtihaad, you are following someone or the other blindly. Be it any Shaykh.
Brother Hammy and Brother Azimax, I do not know why you discredit Br. Thariq's statements when he is just reiterating what the Ulema of the Salaffiyyun, past and contemporary have said.
Imâm Ibn ‘Abdil-Barr : “The narrations that forbid Taqlîd, are not in regards to the laymen. The laymen are obliged to follow their scholars blindly when something happens. None from amongst the scholars say anything else.” (al-Jami’ 2/228)
Do you take from Shaykh Al-Albaani, Shaykh Ibn Uthaymeen, Shaykh Ibn baaz, and Shaykh Al-Fawzaan? I do. If you believe in their statements, here is something for you:
Shaykh Al-Albaani:
[yt]K0-7hK3vokc[/yt]
[yt]HK5J4KouZUE[/yt]
[yt]HK5J4KouZUE[/yt]
Shaykh Al-Fawzaan:
[yt]pWqh9fHjEPs#![/yt]
[yt]xnYaYz4SU5k[/yt]
[yt]OdkZHpe4JvQ[/yt]
Baarakallahu feekum. And brother Azimax, Adhering to a Madhab is not obligatory. I don't think Br. Thariq ever said that. You can take from any scholar you trust. It is just that till the time you are not qualified for ijtihaad, you are following someone or the other blindly. Be it any Shaykh.
Itqan Ullah
Time is Running!!
Its quite strange that everyone is basically saying the same thing yet there is so much disagreement....
thariq2005
Praise be to Allah!
Akhee Azimax, I am not sure if you read your own post when you copy and paste. What you copied and pasted is quite the opposite of what you believe in and is in line with what I have been saying all this time in this thread.
You said:
There you go, that is the layman! He does not understanding the meanings of the Qur'aan or Hadeeth- because he does not know Arabic to begin with and to understand the Qur'aan and Sunnah requires strong foundation in Arabic. He should have knowledge of where the evidences abrogate and are abrogated, where it is general and where it is specificetc. etc. etc. The layman is unable to deduce ruligns from them (i.e not able to do ijtihaad).
There is hardly any one in this forum who surpasses that level ^^. You claiming that you do not do taqleed means that you understand the Qur'aan and sunnah and you have the ability to do ijtihaad.
These are technically the students of knowledge who have studied to a good extent, and know Arabic, have a good understanding of Mustalah, Usool al-Fiqh, Fiqh etc. These people will not be able to derive rulings, but they will be able to understand how the scholars derived their rulings.
I.e. They have an insight of the Book of Allaah and sunnah but have not reached the high level of the scholars. We cannot claim to have an insight of the book of Allaah, when we don't even know Arabic! We don't know nothing about the tafaaseer of the Qur'aan or the different narrations and the usool related to them.
Now read the quotes you posted:
No where did I suggest that it is obligatory to follow a madh-hab. I never said this, and if I did then please point it out. Rather I said exactly what Imaam al-Nawawi said- that it is NOT obligatory to follow one of the madh-habs. This is what I posted in my second reply to you:
2) Following one of the four madh-habs is permissible and in fact if a person wants to tread a path in seeking knowledge- then it is advised for him to study books from one particular madh-hab and build up on it untill he becomes a strong student of knowledge or scholar. This was the path that was taken by nearly all the scholars of the past and present. For example, if one was to even see the books that Ibn al-`Uthaymeen studied, teaches and the teachers he studied under- they will know that he was a Hanabli who reached the level of ijtihaad after mastering the madh-hab.
3) There is the other extreme where people obligate laymen to do taqleed of one of the 4 madh-habs. This is not correct, as the according to the majority of scholars... the layman has NO Madh-hab and he just follows whatever scholar he finds trustworthy to follow and he follows them.
I have clearly highlighted the parts. I wish people read the other person's post completely. You easily make claims that I am confused, yet you haven't even read my posts properly!
The above in essence was the point I have been mentioning all the time. We ask the people of knowledge and blind follow them! The people of knowledge are not restricted to just one madh-hab, rather a layman may ask any scholar he wishes- this is my point!
This is, again, re-itirating what I been saying.
Again, this is what I said in my second reply to you:
2) Following one of the four madh-habs is permissible and in fact if a person wants to tread a path in seeking knowledge- then it is advised for him to study books from one particular madh-hab and build up on it untill he becomes a strong student of knowledge or scholar. This was the path that was taken by nearly all the scholars of the past and present. For example, if one was to even see the books that Ibn al-`Uthaymeen studied, teaches and the teachers he studied under- they will know that he was a Hanabli who reached the level of ijtihaad after mastering the madh-hab.
Diving laws are being broken? By who though? I am not the one, walhamdulillaah, who is mentioning things by myself. I have been quoting scholars over and over.
Adhering to a madh-hab means that one is not a sunni anymore? How many scholars can you name in 1400 years that were NOT affiliated to a madh-hab? How many Salafi `ulemaa do you want me to name, who were/are affiliated with a madh-hab? And for your info, shaykh al-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah was affiliated to the Hanbali madh-hab. In fact when he was younger, he wrote an uncomplete sharh for `Umdah al-Fiqh (the basic fiqh text of the Hanbali madh-hab). He is considered as one of the scholars of the Hanaabilah!
All the scholars you quoted above are people of knowledge who were affiliated with madh-habs.
Imaam al-Nawawi: Shaafi`ee
Ibn Qawan al-Shafi’i: Quote obvious what madh-hab he was affiliated with
Mulla ‘Ali al-Qari al-Hanafi: Very obvious. Shocking that you are quoting a hanafi!
Ibn Humam al-Hanafi: Very obvious again
Ibn Taymiyyah: Hanbali!
Well done with quoting a lot of scholars who are deviant according to you...
If you are not going to spare the scholars of Islaam from the 'you are deviant' tag, then I won't be surprised if you don't spare me either.
Aameen!
thariq2005
Praise be to Allah!
If you want to post anything relevant to this thread, then feel free to do so.
If you want to address me, then I have asked you two questions which you have not yet answered. So, I see it pointless to reply anything back to you if you are going to be dodging questions and cannot even discuss things properly. I see it unfair that I address all the points you raise, and yet when I raise any points you are not even bothered to talk about it. So, if you are going to address me from now on- either do so by first answering my questions if not do not post anything addressing me.
Secondly, I would like to ask you to not lie upon me just to defend your position. You keep saying that I said Ibn Taymiyyah said majority of the people, when I never once in this thread said that.
And finally can you not raise the position of brother Abu Mus`ab. Even he would not agree with the fact that you called him an Islamic Scholar. Someone becomes a scholar, when the scholars say that he is a scholar not when laymen say it.
P.S Munkar al-Hadeeth means: Rejected hadeeth and Munkir al-Hadeeth means: Rejector of hadeeth. Perhaps you meant the latter.
Wassalaamu `alaykum
Itqan Ullah
Time is Running!!
Asslamaliekum warahmatullahi wabrakatu,
Dear Brother, even if you disagree with brother thariq you shouldn't attack him like this. I don't know how you could accuse him for "misquoting" ibn taymiyyah (rh) when you did not provide the correct interpretation? Btw he's right about bro abu mussab that he isn't a scholar yet...
I thought to quit this cuz i know this is for sure this will end up in endless argument however you really taking this personally and if you want to have a go on me, than i am on bro...
I already told you if you not answering my questions how you expecting me to answer yours??? and for sure you'll never have answers for those and that is the reason you coming up with stuff... you don't know the rule and than you come here for proving your misleading points and what else can be expected from a confused fella...
i would really like to laugh @ this... :lol:You said "Firstly, Ibn Taymiyyah mentioned majority of the Ummah. Secondly, by majority of the ummah he means the scholars of Islaam.". I hope you remember this.... how nicely you changed your statement and you thought you'll escape... nice try though... :lol:
Who am I to raise bro Abu Musab's position, it is ALlah (swt) who has already raised his position but the blind one cannot see.... MashAllah he is a knowledgeable person...
Yes. Munkareen-e-hadith whole form... and you are and a confused one as well....
Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 12, Number 723:
Narrated ‘Ubada bin As-Samit:
Allah’s Apostle (pbuh) said, “Whoever does not recite Al-Fatiha in his prayer, his prayer is invalid.” (Invalid, Thrice he (saww) said this)...
Now coming to the Hanafi Fiq, they say: According to Imaam Mohammed (student of Abu Hanifah) the muqtadi should recite Surah Fatihah in sirri( Zohr and Asr). This is also preffered in the most trustworthy books of Hanafi fiqh ie. Hidaya and Mujtaba Sharhe Kuduri.
Even many of our Hanafi scholars have accepted this view. In the same way even in Jahri (Fajr, Magrib, Isha) salaah when the Imaam takes a pause the muqtadi's recitation cannot be denied" "Allama Abdul Hai Hanafi in Sharhe Waqaya Umdaturriaya page 41." and there are many more ref cuz these (Hanafis) are the ONLY one who says not to recite while Imam is reciting...
Hanafis are DID NOT get any kind of "Wisdom", Books from Allah (swt) nor Revelation and than they come up and say this is from Allah and His Messenger (saww)... Qur'an says Chapter 2 Verse 79. "Woe, then, to those who write the Book with their hands (interpolating into it their readings of the Scriptures and their explanatory notes thereto, stories from their national history, superstitious ideas and fancies, philosophical doctrines and legal rules) and then, in order to sell it for a trifling price (such as worldly benefit, status, and renown), they declare: "This is from Allah. " So woe to them for what their hands have written, and woe to them for what they have earned (of the worldly income and the sin thereby)." So dont blame me that I issued a FATWA for them.. This is what Allah (swt) has said for those (Hanafis)...
And you find it cool when he is disrespecting others by calling Blind follower and being harsh from his initial posts??? this is how you judge? Accuse for Misquote,,, Did I?? refer my above post u'll come to know what i was talking abt.... i do not want to comment on bro abu musab but his lectures are really beneficial...
Aziboy
Banned
:salam2: Akhi Thariq,
I honestly don't find it useful to read your entire comments and thought a copy paste would do for this useless and unwanted conflict.
As i requested earlier, please stop replying and delete our comments as we don't want people to get themselves more into confusions.
Also I would request you to write a common comments which we were agreed upon from our above conflicts.
Jazak Allahu Khair
thariq2005
Praise be to Allah!
You are on? Funny how you say that I take it personally, and now your like "I am on". *sigh*
No one one wants to have a go at you, certainly not me. If you going to spread baatil, then obviously I will have a go at you.
I did not answer your questions? I ain't surprised you accusing me of something like that, since you are the guy who lied about me...
Let me summarize here, the first discussion that took place between you and me:
You raised the following points in your first post in this thread and I answered all of them:
1) You accused me of giving a quote from Ibn Taymiyyah that does not have a reference, and I gave you the quote in Arabic along with its reference.
2) You read the quote wrong, with your 'excellent' english reading skills, as 'majority of people' and you brought up the issue that the majority of the people are christians and hindus. I replied to this point mentioning that Ibn Taymiyyah did NOT say 'majority of the people' (nor did I say that) rather he said 'majority of the Ummah'. Sometimes according to Usool al-Fiqh, Ummah can refer to scholars only. Whether you take that Ummah means scholars only or both laymen and scholars, is not a problem. Rather, if you take majority of the Ummah to include both the laymen and scholars then this means more evidence against you- because this includes both the muslim laymen and the scholars of Islaam who hold a view that is opposing to your confused understanding of taqleed.
3) You brought up the issue of me saying that Moosa `alayhis-salaam made du`aa and Allaah accepted is Haaroon's du`aa because Haroon `alayhis-salaam said Aameen and you said that prayer and du`aa is different. I responded back saying that Soorah al-Faatihah is a du`aa (I was not even talking about prayer) and that is the reason why we say Aameen. If al-Faatihah is not a du`aa and is like any other ordinary soorah, why do we say Aameen after al-Faatihah?
This is the only 'evidence' you picked on, although I gave more than just this evidence for those who held the view that it is not obligatory to recite behind the Imaam in loud prayers.
4) You asked me how the hadeeth in Abu Daawood is weak, and I quoted you two people who weakened it: Ibn Taymiyyah and Imaam Ahmad.
5) You asked me which Imaam I follow and I said I do not follow any specific Imaam of the 4 madh-habs.
I responded to all your questions you brought up in your first post, yet you have not even answered back to even one of my questions.
Can you tell me where I changed my statement? Is this another accusation on me?
I have been mentioning majority of the ummah right from the point I posted this quote. All I mentioned was that what majority of the ummah can mean just the scholars, this is how sometimes scholars understand Ummah to mean in Usool. But, either way even if you don't take that it means scholars of Islaam- then it makes it worse for you as 'majority of the Ummah' includes both the laymen and scholars.
So is he a scholar or just a person with knowledge? I see a lot of inconsistency.
Munkar means rejected, Munkir means rejector. Please take any arabic dictionary and check it out instead of quoting me desi-arabic. I hope you know what is the difference between rejected and rejector in english.
I already responded to this about how the scholars, who hold the other view, understand and explain the hadeeth. Here is what I previously said:
Okay, I am not a hanafi to defend the hanafi fiqhi opinions. So, you can go bring this issue up with a learned hanafi.
And I previously mentioned, the opinion of not reciting in loud prayers is not only the view of the Hanafis, but also the view of the Maalikis, Hanbalis (according to one narration) and a large number of the Salaf. This was also the view of Ibn Taymiyyah. To add to that, from the contemporary salafi scholars: shaykh al-Albaanee and shaykh Saalih al-Sadlaan held this view.
That is a serious allegation against Hanafis and their Imaam, Imaam Abu Haneefah.
Wa `alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaah. If you did not even read my comments entirely, why were you ready to accuse me of confusing people?
No one is causing a conflict here apart from you both. Was I the one who went and shoved my opinion (that I am blind following) down the throat of a hanafi brother? Especially in an issue where even the Salafi scholars have disagreed and had a valid difference of opinion. Am I the one causing friction in this ummah by causing un-neccesary friction with Hanafi brothers? Or am I the one who considers muslims deviant because they adhere to a madh-hab in fiqh.
And don't forget, you are the one who indirectly labelled almost all the scholars (including the salafi scholars) to be deviants when you said:
Goes to show how far a person can go just to defend himself.
A lot of the statments of the scholars have been posted as evidence against both of you's. Br. Ershad (Jazaahullaahu khayraa) posted quite a few videos from salafi scholars as well to prove this point. All you both are going on about is your own personal speculation that has no basis. Either you both are saying that Allaah has left this ummah upon misguidance (because the scholars have always been adhering to madh-habs for the last 1000 years) and that you are the only people guided, or that you both are wrong and the scholars who have preserved this deen (by the permission of Allaah) are right.
BaarakAllaahu feek
thariq2005
Praise be to Allah!
When I post, I am stretching it and confusing people and when you post you are not stretching it and you are clarifying for the people? I see double standard brother. Be just when you criticize people.
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