Dawah with a Born-Again Christian

[Munawar]

Salaam,

Brother, Balckivy wrote that she is a supporter of zionism. Now, agreed America is the breeding ground for zionism, how can one be ignorant of Islam if the purpose is to collect money to rob and pillage from the People of Palestine? There is a political movement to gain more funds for Israel and this person has written she supports this. Hello. Forgive me but logic was lost somewhere in this thread. I am passionate about justice. Why are we trying to please a supporter of zionism?

:salam2:

Our Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) used to be very kind to everybody, even to those who hated and wanted to harm Muslims. Khalid Bin Walid (RA) was a mighty kafir soilder, he almost defeated Muslims in the Battle of Ohad, but when he converted to Islam he became one of the greatest Muslim general and soldier for Islam.

There was a woman who used to throw garbage on our beloved Prophet (PBUH) whenever he used to pass infront of her house. One day she didn't throw the garbage. So he wondered and went inside to see if she was okay. She was sick and lying on the bed. He stayed with her for some time and his this behaviour and kindness converted her into a Muslim.

I think we all should learn from the seerah of prophet Mohammad (PBUH) and apply it too. The acts of kindness never go away in waste.

 

[Mairo]

I just wanted to add a reminder to be careful of passing judgement on anyone, especially our fellow believers in God. You do not know how God intends to guide another person, or if he intends to pardon or punish them. It is not good to condemn another person or religious group in it's entirety. No person has the right to assert that another person is going to hell or heaven. It is for God alone to judge between us. We should strive to express truth and remain the most tolerant when opinions differ from that.

Remember, God first revealed himself through prophets before Muhammad. Anyone who has good knowledge - understands, listens and acts on the guidance of a prior prophet correctly - is following a good path. God made promises and covenants with prophets before Muhammad, and in the Quran he promises to fulfill those original covenants. God dislikes the hypocrites, and those abound in EVERY religion. What matters most is personal deen, loving & submitting to God and acting upright.

[2.62] Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.


[3.104] And from among you there should be a party who invite to good and enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong, and these it is that shall be successful.
[3.105] And be not like those who became divided and disagreed after clear arguments had come to them, and these it is that shall have a grievous chastisement.
[3.106] On the day when (some) faces shall turn white and (some) faces shall turn black; then as to those whose faces turn black: Did you disbelieve after your believing? Taste therefore the chastisement because you disbelieved.
[3.107] And as to those whose faces turn white, they shall be in Allah's mercy; in it they shall-abide.
[3.108] These are the communications of Allah which We recite to you with truth, and Allah does not desire any injustice to the creatures.
[3.109] And whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is Allah's; and to Allah all things return
[3.110] You are the best of the nations raised up for (the benefit of) men; you enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong and believe in Allah; and if the followers of the Book had believed it would have been better for them; of them (some) are believers and most of them are transgressors.
[3.111] They shall by no means harm you but with a slight evil; and if they fight with you they shall turn (their) backs to you, then shall they not be helped.
[3.112] Abasement is made to cleave to them wherever they are found, except under a covenant with Allah and a covenant with men, and they have become deserving of wrath from Allah, and humiliation is made to cleave to them; this is because they disbelieved in the communications of Allah and slew the prophets unjustly; this is because they disobeyed and exceeded the limits.
[3.113] They are not all alike; of the followers of the Book there is an upright party; they recite Allah's communications in the nighttime and they adore (Him).
[3.114] They believe in Allah and the last day, and they enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong and they strive with one another in hastening to good deeds, and those are among the good.
[3.115] And whatever good they do, they shall not be denied it, and Allah knows those who guard (against evil).


[2.109] Many of the followers of the Book wish that they could turn you back into unbelievers after your faith, out of envy from themselves, (even) after the truth has become manifest to them; but pardon and forgive, so that Allah should bring about His command; surely Allah has power over all things.
[2.110] And keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and whatever good you send before for yourselves, you shall find it with Allah; surely Allah sees what you do.
[2.111] And they say: None shall enter the garden (or paradise) except he who is a Jew or a Christian. These are their vain desires. Say: Bring your proof if you are truthful.
[2.112] Yes! whoever submits himself entirely to Allah and he is the doer of good (to others) he has his reward from his Lord, and there is no fear for him nor shall he grieve.
[2.113] And the Jews say: The Christians do not follow anything (good) and the Christians say: The Jews do not follow anything (good) while they recite the (same) Book. Even thus say those who have no knowledge, like to what they say; so Allah shall judge between them on the day of resurrection in what they differ.

 

[Aapa]

Salaam,

I am going to assume that you are unaware of the zionists rites of Purim. I am going to assume that you are unaware of the tatics of zionists to destroy Muslim children. I am going to assume that you perfer to be kind to a woman who has stated she supports zionism on a site whereas we have a sister who is dedicated to assist the rights of Muslim children and elderly and the sick who are unable to get simple things such as access to hospitals because of the zionists. I am going to assume that you know little of the zionists plots.
Please do not tell me how to be kind. I am kind but I will not be kind to a person who throws evil on my face and religion. Please let this zionist supporter answer for herself.
The woman who threw things at our Prophet (swas) will burn in hell.

 

[Mairo]

Asalaam Aleykum Mirajmom,

I have not been posting on this website for very long, but I have noticed and appreciated many of BlackIvy's kind and thoughtful posts. On this thread she did not herself claim to be a Zionist, she said that some people in other groups sometimes call born again christians that because some of them support jewish return to israel. She did not say if she herself supported that. And even if she did I would not necessarily condemn her for that. I can understand that the current situation in Palestine is an emotional subject for you as it is for many Muslims, but I do not think she deserved to be the target of such a hateful reply.

 

[jamafg]

:salam2: jamafg

I don't think there is any need to scream at each other. (The bold and red color does appear like screaming.)
You are right that that Quran says that "Kafirs" "Mushriqs" and "Munafiqs" will go to hell fire. But I see nothing wrong in the sister's statement:
(Allah loves everybody regardless of religion, race, culture etc. He is the judge. Who are we to judge? Only He knows who will enter paradise).

Let us take it one by one:

1. Allah loves everybody regardless of religion, race, culture etc. Do you think Allah hates all non Muslims ?
2. He is the judge. Do you think he is not ?
3. Who are we to judge? Do you think we are the judge ?
4. Only He knows who will enter paradise. What is wrong with that?

We should be kind to one another.

Just read my second post and you will get the answer to all of your questions.
Also if you think, I'm screaming, how do you know that I'm screaming?
I just want to show my disapproval to what she said. And finally for you information I'm not only kind to Muslims, but also to every mankind. OK! I know who I'm. Accusing someone without knowing him is not the way of Islam.
Allaho Akbar

 

[jamafg]

:salam2:

Our Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) used to be very kind to everybody, even to those who hated and wanted to harm Muslims. Khalid Bin Walid (RA) was a mighty kafir soilder, he almost defeated Muslims in the Battle of Ohad, but when he converted to Islam he became one of the greatest Muslim general and soldier for Islam.

There was a woman who used to throw garbage on our beloved Prophet (PBUH) whenever he used to pass infront of her house. One day she didn't throw the garbage. So he wondered and went inside to see if she was okay. She was sick and lying on the bed. He stayed with her for some time and his this behaviour and kindness converted her into a Muslim.

I think we all should learn from the seerah of prophet Mohammad (PBUH) and apply it too. The acts of kindness never go away in waste.

This has nothing to do with kindness of our beloved prophet PBUH.
Is clearly mentioned in Holy Qur'an; if someone kills you or your children or take your land, then you’re allowed to defend yourself, your children, your land and religion by destroying them (ignorant) totally.
Finally we should defend whatever is said by our prophet and the Holy Qur’an, not of someone who’s sold to the enemies of Allah SWT and Islam.
There is no compromise to do with the People of ignorance.

 

[jamafg]

Salaam,

I am going to assume that you are unaware of the zionists rites of Purim. I am going to assume that you are unaware of the tatics of zionists to destroy Muslim children. I am going to assume that you perfer to be kind to a woman who has stated she supports zionism on a site whereas we have a sister who is dedicated to assist the rights of Muslim children and elderly and the sick who are unable to get simple things such as access to hospitals because of the zionists. I am going to assume that you know little of the zionists plots.
Please do not tell me how to be kind. I am kind but I will not be kind to a person who throws evil on my face and religion. Please let this zionist supporter answer for herself.
The woman who threw things at our Prophet (swas) will burn in hell.

:salam2: Sister,


:tti_sister:

 

[jamafg]

I just wanted to add a reminder to be careful of passing judgement on anyone, especially our fellow believers in God. You do not know how God intends to guide another person, or if he intends to pardon or punish them. It is not good to condemn another person or religious group in it's entirety. No person has the right to assert that another person is going to hell or heaven. It is for God alone to judge between us. We should strive to express truth and remain the most tolerant when opinions differ from that.

Remember, God first revealed himself through prophets before Muhammad. Anyone who has good knowledge - understands, listens and acts on the guidance of a prior prophet correctly - is following a good path. God made promises and covenants with prophets before Muhammad, and in the Quran he promises to fulfill those original covenants. God dislikes the hypocrites, and those abound in EVERY religion. What matters most is personal deen, loving & submitting to God and acting upright.

[2.62] Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.


[3.104] And from among you there should be a party who invite to good and enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong, and these it is that shall be successful.
[3.105] And be not like those who became divided and disagreed after clear arguments had come to them, and these it is that shall have a grievous chastisement.
[3.106] On the day when (some) faces shall turn white and (some) faces shall turn black; then as to those whose faces turn black: Did you disbelieve after your believing? Taste therefore the chastisement because you disbelieved.
[3.107] And as to those whose faces turn white, they shall be in Allah's mercy; in it they shall-abide.
[3.108] These are the communications of Allah which We recite to you with truth, and Allah does not desire any injustice to the creatures.
[3.109] And whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is Allah's; and to Allah all things return
[3.110] You are the best of the nations raised up for (the benefit of) men; you enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong and believe in Allah; and if the followers of the Book had believed it would have been better for them; of them (some) are believers and most of them are transgressors.
[3.111] They shall by no means harm you but with a slight evil; and if they fight with you they shall turn (their) backs to you, then shall they not be helped.
[3.112] Abasement is made to cleave to them wherever they are found, except under a covenant with Allah and a covenant with men, and they have become deserving of wrath from Allah, and humiliation is made to cleave to them; this is because they disbelieved in the communications of Allah and slew the prophets unjustly; this is because they disobeyed and exceeded the limits.
[3.113] They are not all alike; of the followers of the Book there is an upright party; they recite Allah's communications in the nighttime and they adore (Him).
[3.114] They believe in Allah and the last day, and they enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong and they strive with one another in hastening to good deeds, and those are among the good.
[3.115] And whatever good they do, they shall not be denied it, and Allah knows those who guard (against evil).


[2.109] Many of the followers of the Book wish that they could turn you back into unbelievers after your faith, out of envy from themselves, (even) after the truth has become manifest to them; but pardon and forgive, so that Allah should bring about His command; surely Allah has power over all things.
[2.110] And keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and whatever good you send before for yourselves, you shall find it with Allah; surely Allah sees what you do.
[2.111] And they say: None shall enter the garden (or paradise) except he who is a Jew or a Christian. These are their vain desires. Say: Bring your proof if you are truthful.
[2.112] Yes! whoever submits himself entirely to Allah and he is the doer of good (to others) he has his reward from his Lord, and there is no fear for him nor shall he grieve.
[2.113] And the Jews say: The Christians do not follow anything (good) and the Christians say: The Jews do not follow anything (good) while they recite the (same) Book. Even thus say those who have no knowledge, like to what they say; so Allah shall judge between them on the day of resurrection in what they differ.

Thanks for you comment, but can I please request you to read what is said about biblical contradictions?
Peace!

Biblical Contradictions
The Bible is riddled with repetitions and contradictions, things that the Bible bangers would be quick to point out in anything that they want to criticize. For instance, Genesis 1 and 2 disagree about the order in which things are created, and how satisfied God is about the results of his labors. The flood story is really two interwoven stories that contradict each other on how many of each kind of animal are to be brought into the Ark--is it one pair each or seven pairs each of the "clean" ones? The Gospel of John disagrees with the other three Gospels on the activities of Jesus Christ (how long had he stayed in Jerusalem--a couple of days or a whole year?) and all four Gospels contradict each other on the details of Jesus Christ's last moments and resurrection. The Gospels of Matthew and Luke contradict each other on the genealogy of Jesus Christ' father; though both agree that Joseph was not his real father. Repetitions and contradictions are understandable for a hodgepodge collection of documents, but not for some carefully constructed treatise, reflecting a well-thought-out plan.
Of the various methods I've seen to "explain" these:
1. "That is to be taken metaphorically" In other words, what is written is not what is meant. I find this entertaining, especially for those who decide what ISN'T to be taken as other than the absolute WORD OF GOD--which just happens to agree with the particular thing they happen to want..
2. "There was more there than..." This is used when one verse says "there was a" and another says "there was b", so they decide there was "a" AND "b"--which is said nowhere. This makes them happy, since it doesn't say there WASN'T "a+b". But it doesn't say there was "a+b+little green martians". This is often the same crowd that insists theirs is the ONLY possible interpretation (i.e. only "a") and the only way. I find it entertaining they they don't mind adding to verses.
3. "It has to be understood in context" I find this amusing because it comes from the same crowd that likes to push likewise extracted verses that support their particular view. Often it is just one of the verses in the contradictory set is suppose to be taken as THE TRUTH when if you add more to it it suddenly becomes "out of context". How many of you have gotten JUST John 3:16 (taken out of all context) thrown up at you?
4. "there was just a copying/writing error" This is sometimes called a "transcription error", as in where one number was meant and an incorrect one was copied down. Or that what was "quoted" wasn't really what was said, but just what the author thought was said when he thought it was said. And that's right--I'm not disagreeing with events, I'm disagreeing with what is WRITTEN. Which is apparently agreed that it is incorrect. This is an amusing misdirection to the problem that the bible itself is wrong.
5. "That is a miracle". Naturally. That is why it is stated as fact.
6. "God works in mysterious ways" A useful dodge when the speaker doesn't understand the conflict between what the bible SAYS and what they WISH it said.
________________________________________
REFERENCES:
The King James version of the Bible. quotes provided.
Self-contradictions of the Bible.
William Henry Burr
ISBN 0-87975-416-8
Burr, William Henry, 1819-1908.
Self-contradictions of the Bible / William Henry Burr ; with an introduction by R. Joseph Hoffmann. [Buffalo, NY : Prometheus Books], c1987.
Series title: Classics of Biblical criticism.
UCB Moffitt BS533 .B798 1987
UCD Main Lib BS533 .B798 1987
Cooper, Robert, secularist.
The "Holy Scriptures" analyzed, or, Extracts from the Bible : showing its contradictions, absurdities and immoralities / by Robert Cooper. 2nd ed., to which is added, a vindication of the work. Manchester, [Greater Manchester] : J. Cooper, 1840.
Series title: Goldsmiths'-Kress library of economic literature ; no. 31887.
UCLA AGS Mgmt H 31 G57 Microfilm
Dean, M. R.
508 answers to Bible questions : with answers to seeming Bible contradictions / M. R. DeHaan. Grand Rapids, Mich. : Zondervan, [1968?], c1952.
UCSB Library BS538 .D43 1968
Thaddaeus, Joannes, fl. 1630.
The reconciler of the Bible enlarged : wherein above three thousand seeming contradictions throughout the Old and New Testament are fully and plainly reconciled ... / by J. T. and T. M. .. London : Printed for Simon Miller ..., 1662.
Series title: Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 1052:9.
UCSD Central MICRO F 524 Current Periodical Microform
Poole, Matthew, 1624-1679.
Annotations upon the Holy Bible. Vol. II : wherein the sacred text is inserted, and various readings annex'd, together with the parallel scriptures : the more difficult terms in each verse are explained,... The third edition, with the addition of a new concordance and tables, by Mr. Sam. Clark; the whole corrected and amended by the said Mr. Sam. Clark and Mr. Edward Veale .. London : Printed for Thomas Parkhurst [and 6 others], MDCXCVI [1696].
Series title: Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 1041:1.
UCSD Central MICRO F 524 Current Periodical Microform
"the x-rated bible" by ben edward akerley, published by american atheist press, austin texas, 1985.

________________________________________

There is not a single serious Bible scholar that would tell you that he has an original of the Bible. Nor is there one who really believes that the Bible was revealed in English. This is nonsense and does not even merit a discussion. The version that is offered in book stores today in Greek, is actually a backward translation from the English to the Greek and not the other way around as many people mistakenly believe. The same is true for most languages including Arabic. I own a number of different versions and translations of the Bible into many languages. The Arabic and the Spanish will translate right into the English version easily, mistakes and all. Why? Because that is where they came from to start with. There was no English language, no Spanish language, no Portuguese language, no French language at the time of Jesus (or Muhammad, peace be upon him, for that matter). So where did these translations come from? Straight from the English. If you go back to older manuscripts you will find many problems with what is being represented in these "modern" versions of the Bible.

 

[Aapa]

Salaam,

I did not post anything hateful. There comes a time when one must walk the walk. I told the truth. We have individual and collective decisions to make. Allah subhana talla forgive me but I side with Muslims and not zionists or anyone who supports any zionist causes. As I have posted before and will continue to post I love Muslims. I suggest we close this topic as we are way off topic. I suggest we open a topic on the history of Zionism and its infections in the world today.

 

[gazkour]

Assalamo Alikom wa rahmato Allah wa barakato

I was born catholic and then with all my family we became born-again christian, then after being in the church for about 10 years I found Islam Alhamdulillah!

I spoke in tongues, went to Biblical school, served the Sunday 'comunion' and so on. My family is still born again christian.

There's a different approach of christianity from church to church, from pastor to pastor and from believer to believer.

For example the church I belonged to, was on the 'liberal' side. Women dress as any non believer would(make up, clevege, surgeries,etc,etc), they drink(but don't get drunk), they have boyfriends/girlfriends(but don't fornicate), they mix, they party, listen to every kind of music, and so on. I must say that there are few people within this church that even don't agree with this practices. And yes, they all fully support Bush and Israel policies.

The kind of christians that don't agree with this 'liberalism' are even critised by my ex-church, calling them "legalist". These 'legalist' are very close to muslims on their principles.

My family criticise me for being legalist, now that I'm a muslim. They say : you can wear make up, show your hair and legs and party and still be good and filled with the holly spirit like us!

Christians believe that before Jesus died, he said "one" after him is going to come to fullfill the faith and guide them in every aspect of their life. They believe Jesus was refering to the Holy Spirit. So that's why they say they are filled with this spirit, who guides them to do this or to do that, to say this or to say that. They also believe that this spirit is the legacy Jesus left instead of him to the church.

Muslims in the other hand, believe that the "one" Jesus was refering to come after him is our beloved Prophet Mohamed (SAWS).

When the Bilbe refers to the Spirit of God was actually refering to angel Gabriel. The Coran states that Jesus was 'reinforced' with the 'spirit' refering therefore to Gabriel.

I personally don't think this manifestations (speaking in tongues, visions, dreams, even prophesys!) come from Allah, at least 99.9% of the times ( Allah konws best). I've been there, I've done that , and I think this is just an 'emotional crowd response' . My family keeps telling me that the spirit told them this and that and they even seem to say 'prophesies' which actually I have never seen to be fullfilled.

I remember once when a lot of people were passing in front to the pastor and when they were touched by him they would fall on the ground; so when it was my turn, I remember him 'pushing' me so hard that I had no other choice but to let myself fall "on the Spirit" !!!!!!

When some members of my family were talking to the pastor about me being muslim they were told: "don't worry, the Spirit is telling me that she's going to come back to christianity!!!!!!! Staghfirullah!!!

I also must admit that there are also very genuine and commited christians who follow a very 'clean' life and truly love God with their heart, so I'm sure Allah will manifest somehow in their life as Allah does with true muslims. Allah knows best. I just don't believe Allah manifests Himself as being in a 'circus' kind of show.

I think if those manifestations were 100% from God I and many muslims would still be having them! But as soon as I converted to Islam, I didn't like them or need them anymore, even more they sound very out of place and 'wrong' for me now. Allah know best.

This christians after recieving this manifestations, they go to parties and drink, eat pork and just live a 'normal' life.
I even ask my sisters about the people I used to know from the church, and they tell me: Ohh she became pregnant so she left the church, the other one fell back into her 'old habits' , the other one found a nonbeliever boyfriend, the other one went back to alcoholism, and to top it all the latest news I received were: the principal pastor (who is a man married with a kid) was discovered to have a affair with an unknown male!!! And He was on stage imposing hands to all!
Remember that debate with brother Ahmet Deedat(May Allah grant him Paradise) and the christian pastor called Swaggart? Well, this pastor after the debate was found with a prostitute in a hotel. He later apologised publicly for what he had done. And let me tell you, this hasn't been the first case nor the last!


For me that says it all!


I just can say Alhamdulillah for Islam!

 

[jamafg]

I was born catholic and then with all my family we became born-again christian, then after being in the church for about 10 years I found Islam Alhamdulillah!

I spoke in tongues, went to Biblical school, served the Sunday 'comunion' and so on. My family is still born again christian.

There's a different approach of christianity from church to church, from pastor to pastor and from believer to believer.

For example the church I belonged to, was on the 'liberal' side. Women dress as any non believer would(make up, clevege, surgeries,etc,etc), they drink(but don't get drunk), they have boyfriends/girlfriends(but don't fornicate), they mix, they party, listen to every kind of music, and so on. I must say that there are few people within this church that even don't agree with this practices. And yes, they all fully support Bush and Israel policies.

The kind of christians that don't agree with this 'liberalism' are even critised by my ex-church, calling them "legalist". These 'legalist' are very close to muslims on their principles.

My family criticise me for being legalist, now that I'm a muslim. They say : you can wear make up, show your hair and legs and party and still be good and filled with the holly spirit like us!

Christians believe that before Jesus died, he said "one" after him is going to come to fullfill the faith and guide them in every aspect of their life. They believe Jesus was refering to the Holy Spirit. So that's why they say they are filled with this spirit, who guides them to do this or to do that, to say this or to say that. They also believe that this spirit is the legacy Jesus left instead of him to the church.

Muslims in the other hand, believe that the "one" Jesus was refering to come after him is our beloved Prophet Mohamed (SAWS).

When the Bilbe refers to the Spirit of God was actually refering to angel Gabriel. The Coran states that Jesus was 'reinforced' with the 'spirit' refering therefore to Gabriel.

I personally don't think this manifestations (speaking in tongues, visions, dreams, even prophesys!) come from Allah, at least 99.9% of the times ( Allah konws best). I've been there, I've done that , and I think this is just an 'emotional crowd response' . My family keeps telling me that the spirit told them this and that and they even seem to say 'prophesies' which actually I have never seen to be fullfilled.

I remember once when a lot of people were passing in front to the pastor and when they were touched by him they would fall on the ground; so when it was my turn, I remember him 'pushing' me so hard that I had no other choice but to let myself fall "on the Spirit" !!!!!!

When some members of my family were talking to the pastor about me being muslim they were told: "don't worry, the Spirit is telling me that she's going to come back to christianity!!!!!!! Staghfirullah!!!

I also must admit that there are also very genuine and commited christians who follow a very 'clean' life and truly love God with their heart, so I'm sure Allah will manifest somehow in their life as Allah does with true muslims. Allah knows best. I just don't believe Allah manifests Himself as being in a 'circus' kind of show.

I think if those manifestations were 100% from God I and many muslims would still be having them! But as soon as I converted to Islam, I didn't like them or need them anymore, even more they sound very out of place and 'wrong' for me now. Allah know best.

This christians after recieving this manifestations, they go to parties and drink, eat pork and just live a 'normal' life.
I even ask my sisters about the people I used to know from the church, and they tell me: Ohh she became pregnant so she left the church, the other one fell back into her 'old habits' , the other one found a nonbeliever boyfriend, the other one went back to alcoholism, and to top it all the latest news I received were: the principal pastor (who is a man married with a kid) was discovered to have a affair with an unknown male!!! And He was on stage imposing hands to all!
Remember that debate with brother Ahmet Deedat(May Allah grant him Paradise) and the christian pastor called Swaggart? Well, this pastor after the debate was found with a prostitute in a hotel. He later apologised publicly for what he had done. And let me tell you, this hasn't been the first case nor the last!


For me that says it all!


I just can say Alhamdulillah for Islam!

:salam2: Sister and :ma:

Allah bless you all your life with every Muslim. Ameen

 

[jamafg]

I was born catholic and then with all my family we became born-again christian, then after being in the church for about 10 years I found Islam Alhamdulillah!

I spoke in tongues, went to Biblical school, served the Sunday 'comunion' and so on. My family is still born again christian.

There's a different approach of christianity from church to church, from pastor to pastor and from believer to believer.

For example the church I belonged to, was on the 'liberal' side. Women dress as any non believer would(make up, clevege, surgeries,etc,etc), they drink(but don't get drunk), they have boyfriends/girlfriends(but don't fornicate), they mix, they party, listen to every kind of music, and so on. I must say that there are few people within this church that even don't agree with this practices. And yes, they all fully support Bush and Israel policies.

The kind of christians that don't agree with this 'liberalism' are even critised by my ex-church, calling them "legalist". These 'legalist' are very close to muslims on their principles.

My family criticise me for being legalist, now that I'm a muslim. They say : you can wear make up, show your hair and legs and party and still be good and filled with the holly spirit like us!

Christians believe that before Jesus died, he said "one" after him is going to come to fullfill the faith and guide them in every aspect of their life. They believe Jesus was refering to the Holy Spirit. So that's why they say they are filled with this spirit, who guides them to do this or to do that, to say this or to say that. They also believe that this spirit is the legacy Jesus left instead of him to the church.

Muslims in the other hand, believe that the "one" Jesus was refering to come after him is our beloved Prophet Mohamed (SAWS).

When the Bilbe refers to the Spirit of God was actually refering to angel Gabriel. The Coran states that Jesus was 'reinforced' with the 'spirit' refering therefore to Gabriel.

I personally don't think this manifestations (speaking in tongues, visions, dreams, even prophesys!) come from Allah, at least 99.9% of the times ( Allah konws best). I've been there, I've done that , and I think this is just an 'emotional crowd response' . My family keeps telling me that the spirit told them this and that and they even seem to say 'prophesies' which actually I have never seen to be fullfilled.

I remember once when a lot of people were passing in front to the pastor and when they were touched by him they would fall on the ground; so when it was my turn, I remember him 'pushing' me so hard that I had no other choice but to let myself fall "on the Spirit" !!!!!!

When some members of my family were talking to the pastor about me being muslim they were told: "don't worry, the Spirit is telling me that she's going to come back to christianity!!!!!!! Staghfirullah!!!

I also must admit that there are also very genuine and commited christians who follow a very 'clean' life and truly love God with their heart, so I'm sure Allah will manifest somehow in their life as Allah does with true muslims. Allah knows best. I just don't believe Allah manifests Himself as being in a 'circus' kind of show.

I think if those manifestations were 100% from God I and many muslims would still be having them! But as soon as I converted to Islam, I didn't like them or need them anymore, even more they sound very out of place and 'wrong' for me now. Allah know best.

This christians after recieving this manifestations, they go to parties and drink, eat pork and just live a 'normal' life.
I even ask my sisters about the people I used to know from the church, and they tell me: Ohh she became pregnant so she left the church, the other one fell back into her 'old habits' , the other one found a nonbeliever boyfriend, the other one went back to alcoholism, and to top it all the latest news I received were: the principal pastor (who is a man married with a kid) was discovered to have a affair with an unknown male!!! And He was on stage imposing hands to all!
Remember that debate with brother Ahmet Deedat(May Allah grant him Paradise) and the christian pastor called Swaggart? Well, this pastor after the debate was found with a prostitute in a hotel. He later apologised publicly for what he had done. And let me tell you, this hasn't been the first case nor the last!


For me that says it all!


I just can say Alhamdulillah for Islam!

:salam2: and :ma:

Allah bless you all your life with every Muslim. Ameen

 

[blackivy393]

Salaam,

Blackivy,

Am I correct in understanding that you are a supporter of the zionists? This is quite different than the simple agenda of gaining money for the zionists by telling the evangelicals to support the return to the holy land? Do you understand what zionism is? Are you aware of the rituals of Purim? If you state you are a born again, I strongly suggest you research what I have written before you respond. What makes you want to be on an Islamic site.
What makes you an authority on the evangelical movement which is very different from the born again movements. If you had read my post earlier you would have read that many born again Christians are part of the traditional churches.
As for communion do you really believe in the transubstantiation of the bread to body and wine to blood? This is the Anglican and Catholic interpertation of communion. I know of many churches that are open almost seven days a week. Not all evangelicals speak in tounges. Do you? Do you dance when you speak in tounges?
You have stated that you are a supporter of zionism and you write on an Islamic website. Please defend youself with serious answers. I am very offened by your lack of knowledge. Oliver North did not speak in tounges nor did he dance when he was inspired by the spirit. Please explain to me using the traditional protestant theologians what you mean by the spirit.

i personally wouldn't call myself a zionist but i was saying SOME PEOPLE IN SOCIETY WOULD CALL US ZIONIST because some people dont like WHO we give charity too or etc. but some christians give to different charities i.e chrisitan and jewish fellowship, its popular 2 wear the american and israel flag pins or is interested in learning the jewish roots of christianity. i personally dont consider myself a zionist , just someone who follows my religion and in my religion it says to support to others as well as Jewish brothers and sisters with charity who need help ( WHICH DOESNT NECESSARILY MEAN SUPPORT OF ISRAELI GOVERNMENT, WHICH I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE DONT LIKE) zionist movement didnt start to 1800s with theordore herzl with my knowledge and what christians are currently doing as been commanded of us since @ least 70 AD, and we're not for kicking palestinians or other religions out of the area.
Purim is holiday that celebrates Queen Esther saving the Jewish people from being massacured by the government at that time, i dont know if any special rituals go with commerating

also im not a scholar or authority but i am chrisitian in the chrisitian community who has lived it, a lot of evangelicals would title themselves as "born again" because they speak in tongues etc. as anyone ever seen the movie JESUS CAMP? these people are born again christians but they have been labeled as evangelicals or christian fundamentalists as well. many born again christians are part of the main stream!!!!! President Bush has been labeled a born again chrisitian!!!, denominations or sects that have member who identify themselves are assemblies of God, non-denominational, pentecostal... etc they often identify themselves by asking one another " are you saved....? or are you born again? CBN news Christian news- that show born again and popular in the midwest and south.

as christians we believe humans can interact with God in 3 different ways giving the meaning of (trinity) which is a vocab word that is not in the bible. of course everyone thinks of God as being in heaven, we call this experience God ( the father), we also believe God being everywhere , or Gods presence( holy spirit), than God coming to earth as a human (Jesus Christ). an example of interacting with the holy spirit chrisitians often give example of Moses and the burning bush. so its like a person you can talk 2 them on the phone and not see them, see them on tv and see them in person, but its the same person.

i am filled with the holy spirit, i only pray in tongues when im sad basically. and people dancing and speaking in tongue or speaking in tongues all the time etc, everyone doesnt do that, its more of personal preference

im not sure but i believe only catholics believe the bread and wine literally turn to that of a human, for most everyone else (protestants denominations) we believe its symbolic but reminds you of the death of christ and it shows God you care.

the difference between christianity and islam we dont have to consult a scholar and different school of thought because a regular person is able 2 become knowledgable, the main difference between scholars they might speak aramaic, greek, hebrew, been to the holy sites and understand the religion from historical point of view and mostly knowledable of the biography of some individuals in the bible

 

[blackivy393]

Asalaam Aleykum Mirajmom,

I have not been posting on this website for very long, but I have noticed and appreciated many of BlackIvy's kind and thoughtful posts. On this thread she did not herself claim to be a Zionist, she said that some people in other groups sometimes call born again christians that because some of them support jewish return to israel. She did not say if she herself supported that. And even if she did I would not necessarily condemn her for that. I can understand that the current situation in Palestine is an emotional subject for you as it is for many Muslims, but I do not think she deserved to be the target of such a hateful reply.

thank you mairo, people have already gone on a tangent saying that im a zionist on the whole site lol. i said some people would call some chrisitians zionists .

 

[Mairo]

[2.285] The apostle believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers; they all believe in Allah and His angels and His books and His apostles; We make no difference between any of His apostles; and they say: We hear and obey, our Lord! Thy forgiveness (do we crave), and to Thee is the eventual course.

Hello everyone,
I am quite aware of the problems with the transcription and inaccuracy that can be found in the Bible. I still think a person can come to understand God by studying the stories in the Bible, in spite of the errors, if they have been guided by God. This is also stated in the Quran, it is not just my opinion. The only book I will ever fully trust is the Quran. I only refer to the Quran in my posts, not the Bible. I love the religion of Islam. I am a Muslim woman, but I do not reserve kindness and love only towards Muslims. I can recognize a person who is acting upright and understands God, even if they do not wear the name muslim. And I agree with you wholeheartedly with the importance of defending against oppression, persecution and injustice in any form - whether it be yourself or anyone else who may be enduring it.

Peace to you all, and God bless

 

[blackivy393]

Hello blackivy393,

I have seen many of your posts here. It looks like you are good Christian girl and I think you also want to know about other religions.

I am curious so I have these questions:

1. How long have you been here on TTI website ?

2. What have you learned about Islam so far ?

My immediate boss is also a born again. He has good moral character, and I tell him that he is very close to being a good Muslim, but he doesn't want to discuss religion at all.

well ive been looking at the site for a year but i think i have been posting for 6 months im not sure.

i have learned a lot about islam different islamic websites, i learned about it from documentaries ( the ones that give historical understanding of islam not biased perspective) and i have read half of the quran the second portion, middle to end, islamic sermons, hadiths, i have always studied religions only the monothesic ones

when i was younger (cuz im 19 yrs now) i was interested in converting to islam at i guess about 13 years old because a lot of the documentaries i seen made islam look super cool because its actual way of life. christianity is not as much of a way of life because we dont have dietary laws, prescribed way of dress, set prayer times etc. so since we dont do things most secular people in the states do, a way of life is made , called "i dont do that" lol. so basically im interested at looking at islamic perspective on world events, social issues. i find it interesting to see westerners revert to islam especially because its very conservative in some ways compared to christianity.

 

[Bluegazer]

Assalamu Alaikum brother Munawar,

Assalamu Alaikum sister Sa'diyah,

Assalamu Alaikum sister Mairo,


I can see that you three share very similar positions on a certain issue. Munawar summarized the position of Sa'diyah in four points [in bold type] and then commented on these points in post #18:

1. Allah loves everybody regardless of religion, race, culture etc. Do you think Allah hates all non Muslims ?
2. He is the judge. Do you think he is not ?
3. Who are we to judge? Do you think we are the judge ?
4. Only He knows who will enter paradise. What is wrong with that?

Source: http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=153595&postcount=18


I sincerely advise Munawar, Sa'diyah and Mairo to read pages 2, 3 and 4 of the thread "Communicating with kaffir family". Please read all of the 3 pages very carefully. I know my posts are very long, but if you read them carefully, you will -God willing- find the adequate response to points 2, 3 and 4 [That Allah the Almighty is the judge, who are we to judge and only He knows who will enter paradise]:

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12847&page=2
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12847&page=3
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12847&page=4


As to point 1 [the assertion that Allah loves everyone regardless of religion...], Allah the Almighty said:

Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): "Obey Allâh and the Messenger (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم)." But if they turn away, then Allâh does not like the disbelievers [1].

[1] (V.3:32) See the footnote of (V.3:85).

[The translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 3:32 and footnote [1] is from the website of the King Fahd complex for the Printing of the Holy Qur'an]

Source: http://qurancomplex.org/Quran/Targama/Targama.asp?nSora=3&l=eng&nAya=32#3_32


If we go to the footnote of V.3:85, we find the following in the footnotes:

(V.3:85).
a) It is obligatory to have Belief in the Messengership of the Prophet (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم). Narrated Abu Hurairah رضي الله عنه: Allâh’s Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم said: "By Him (Allâh) in Whose Hand Muhammad’s soul is, there is none from amongst the Jews and the Christians (of these present nations) who hears about me and then dies without believing in the Message with which I have been sent (i.e. Islâmic Monotheism), but he will be from the dwellers of the (Hell) Fire." (Sahih Muslim , the Book of Faith, Vol.1, Hadith No.240). [See also (V.3:116)]

Source: http://qurancomplex.org/Quran/Targama/Targama.asp?nSora=3&l=eng&nAya=85#3_85


Allah the Almighty has also said:

That He may reward those who believe (in the Oneness of Allâh - Islâmic Monotheism), and do righteous good deeds, out of His Bounty. Verily, He likes not the disbelievers.

[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 30:45]


If -after reading the saying of the prophet [peace be upon him] mentioned above- there is still doubt that Jews and Christians in this age are Kuffaar [disbelievers] -and I really don't know how you can doubt that-, then that's an added reason why you should read my posts found in the three links mentioned above very carefully.


Regards,

Bluegazer

Wassalamu Alaikum

 

[Mairo]

well ive been looking at the site for a year but i think i have been posting for 6 months im not sure.

i have learned a lot about islam different islamic websites, i learned about it from documentaries ( the ones that give historical understanding of islam not biased perspective) and i have read half of the quran the second portion, middle to end, islamic sermons, hadiths, i have always studied religions only the monothesic ones

when i was younger (cuz im 19 yrs now) i was interested in converting to islam at i guess about 13 years old because a lot of the documentaries i seen made islam look super cool because its actual way of life. christianity is not as much of a way of life because we dont have dietary laws, prescribed way of dress, set prayer times etc. so since we dont do things most secular people in the states do, a way of life is made , called "i dont do that" lol. so basically im interested at looking at islamic perspective on world events, social issues. i find it interesting to see westerners revert to islam especially because its very conservative in some ways compared to christianity.

Hi BlackIvy,
I really like seeing young people such as yourself searching out God and studying religion. I am curious, what do you think about Islam now? Is there something that is holding you back, or something that has changed in your life, to keep you from wanting to convert at this point in time? From some of your posts it sounds almost like you are trying to combine your Christian beliefs with Islam? I myself also studied many different religions, and did not become Muslim until more than 10 years after my first introduction to Islam.

I wish you the best in your search, May God guide you on the straight path.

Mairo

 

[Mairo]

Wa'aleikum Masalaam Bluegazer,

Thank you for your post. Yes I am aware of that point of view as well, and I also agree with it. A very good example of what you are explaining was with the thread from DadManG the other day. There are certain Christian beliefs, such as the idea of the trinity or belief in Jesus as God incarnate which completely contradict Islam and constitute disbelief if a person has been warned with the words of the Quran and they continue on in their disbelief. But not all Christians believe in these concepts, there are some who are simply trying to live a good life following the model of Jesus.

In addition, I have difficulty when talking about religion with my father. He believes in God, but it is not based on scripture, it is based on his own ideas and feelings about God. This is also warned against in the Quran. Regardless of whether or not someone believes the Quran to be God's revelation when it is recited, I feel an obligation to repeat from the Quran and let the recipient of the verse respond to it or reject it. Just as the messenger of Allah's purpose was only to deliver the message, he would never have power over anyone to make them convert. For them is their religion, for us is ours. The judgement is all up to God, who will decide between all of our differences. It is not for any person to condemn another. Rather we should seek to be merciful and forgive, so that we may be shown the mercy of Allah.

I do not believe it is right to withold kindness from someone who disbelieves in God's messages or attack them in any way. The prophet demonstrated constantly how to be kind and merciful with everyone around him, even prisoners of war. I do not compromise my beliefs in Islam by being tolerant with those who differ or oppose Islam. When Islam became the predominant religion in Mecca, none of its inhabitants were forced to convert, everyone had the freedom to practice the religon of their choice in peace.

May Allah bless and guide us all.

 

[Optimist]

I like to be brief ...

Dear blackivy, if I understood you correctly then your belief is similar to what we call "wahdat alwojood" which I think probably stands for pantheism. It simply states that God is everywhere in the literal sense (not that He is in control of everything). This will of course include human beings. The belief was promoted by a deviated group of "muslim scholars". Nearly all scholars of recognised standing consider this group totally out of Islam. This is because in Islam we belief that Allah is seperate from his creation. Those who called for pantheism ended up considering worshipping idols similar to worshipping Allah because .... "ALLAh is everywhere" in their belief ! (I seek refuge from Allah from such belief). Some of them even claimed that Allah is inside their turbans ... etc (I seek refuge from Allah from such belief). They ended up rejecting the scriptures and putting themselves in a position where they did not need to follow any guidance or do any worship because ... they have a "Godly" part of them so they simply assumed this authority.

This is a distorted view of God and completely nullifies monotheism. It is in fact the worst type of polytheism because according to this belief *God is in everything* ... and just imagine what everything can be (I seek refuge from Allah from such belief).

I'd recommend you dont focus on politics. Politics are murky and will lead you nowhere as people never agree. I have seen many converts on youtube and not once I've heard them saying that we came to Islam because we thought muslims were abused or we thougt their cause is just ... etc.

This article is a good start.

http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/archive/article.php?lang=E&id=135816

I pray that Allah SWT guide us all to the right path.

ooops ... that's lengthy !