a Saudi's trip to Iran.....

[du'a]

people, we need to be very careful about who we accuse of being kuffar. we have no knowledge except which Allah gives us...

it says in the quran,

surah 49, al hujurat , ayat 11:

http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/arabic/049_files/49_11.gif

O ye who believe! Let not some men among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former): Nor let some women laugh at others: It may be that the (latter are better than the (former): Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, (to be used of one) after he has believed: And those who do not desist are (indeed) doing wrong.

 

[kayleigh]

I've never been to Iran, so I can't really comment on how Shias in Iran act. There are bad people everywhere so I don't necessarily doubt this.

But I do think we should be careful in labeling an entire group as kafirs. That is like saying everyone who claims to be a Sunni is a good person and everyone who claims to be Shia is a bad person. I think common sense tells us this is not true. Not every Shia is bad and not every Shia lies or curses the sahaba. There is a difference between the knowledgeable Shia who know what they're doing and what they believe and the laymen who might just call themselves Shia because that's what their family or culture is but not know enough about it. I have met a Shia sister who called herself Shia because her parents were but she didn't believe anything different from me or practice Islam differently and didn't really know about Shiaism when she was told about it and was honestly shocked to read some of the Shia hadiths.

Generalizations usually lead to bad things.

 

[zbhotto]

Some questions and answers

I've never been to Iran, so I can't really comment on how Shias in Iran act. There are bad people everywhere so I don't necessarily doubt this.

But I do think we should be careful in labeling an entire group as kafirs. That is like saying everyone who claims to be a Sunni is a good person and everyone who claims to be Shia is a bad person. I think common sense tells us this is not true. Not every Shia is bad and not every Shia lies or curses the sahaba. There is a difference between the knowledgeable Shia who know what they're doing and what they believe and the laymen who might just call themselves Shia because that's what their family or culture is but not know enough about it. I have met a Shia sister who called herself Shia because her parents were but she didn't believe anything different from me or practice Islam differently and didn't really know about Shiaism when she was told about it and was honestly shocked to read some of the Shia hadiths.

Generalizations usually lead to bad things.

Dear Brother;
The relation between Shiaism and ISLAM is the same as Zionism and Judaism. Shiasm is a completely polotically motivated ideology and the root of thie ideology lies in the strong sense of PARSIANS to be different from Arabs. If the PARSIANS do not accept SHIASM then the Sahabas could have elliminated this devil ideology from the face of the earth.

In any sense, a true follower of Koran cannot consider SHIA as muslims.

SHIA curse Abu bakr (RA), Umor (RA) and Usman (RA) and those SAHABAS (only exception was their 11/12 shia imams) who support them as Caliph.

SHIA's accuse them all of apostasy? If SHIA's claim were true then my
question to you what gain did they achiev by being Caliph?

Do you know how Abu Bakr (RA) had died? He was the richest person when He embrace ISLAM in MAKKAH and when he died after being Caliph he was in debt to person. Being a caliph He had not enough money to pay his debt and died.

Do you know how Umar (RA) had served ISLAM? No other person had served ISLAM as Umar (RA) had done. Do you know His sleeping bed was sand? Do you know His germent was repaired seventy times? Do you know He used to visit every house in Makkah in disguise to know the conditions of His people. DO you know the story of HIS Journey to Jeruzalem where He took the key of AL-AKSA mosque.

Hazrat Umar (RA) did not speak to his son until he died. Do you know why? IT was because his son said, " Even though Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) allowed, I will not allow my wife to go to the mosque". Immediately after that Hazrat Umar (RA) abandon his son and he was left abondoned until his death.

Hazrat Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman (RA) live as muslim, smell as a muslim, eat as a muslim, speak as a muslim, served islam as muslim, had died as a muslim, How can one blame them for apostasy. Which material gain they had achived by being caliph? Can anyone show an example? I know No one can?


Now ALLAH has declared paradise to 10 sahabas by His messenger i.e., those 10 sahabas will not be judged on the day of judgement. Hazrat Abu Bakr, Hazrat Umar, Hazrat Uthman (RA) are among the 10. How can one curse those whom Allah has granted paradise?

Since Allah has declared paradise to one in this world it means Allah has
rewarded him by forgieving all of his past and present sins and the sins he might commit in the future.

This means Allah has granted paradise to the 10 sahabas by not only forgeiving their previous and present sins (I belive the Sahabas are sinless) but also their future sins.

Even if I agree for the sake of argument with the SHIAs, then still they do not have any right to curse the companions of prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

Apart from this the SHIA belive in thier holy imams who are working day and night for them. SHAI believe IMAM KHOMENI was there since the time of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) but He appeared to them to oust the SHAH regime. Likewise their other imams are also with them in GHOST and they will appear to help them when needed. This believe is similar to the christain believe of holy ghost. They pray to ALI, IMAM Hossain, for protection from evil and to intercede for them on the day of judgement.

Where did the shai get this devil thought?

Is there anything like that in KORAN and Hadith?


If you ask them these qustions they will reply Koran is corrupted. The complete quaran is with their imam who is in the cave.

No way we can call SHIA as muslim. They are kuffar as simple as that.


This thread should no longer be used.

 

[kayleigh]

I'm a sister :/

Not every Shia believes all of that. Some Shias are labeled Shias by family and culture but don't practice it just like some Sunnis are Sunnis by family and culture but don't know anything about Islam or practice it. Some Shias are ignorant of their own beliefs.

I'm not going to defend them anymore, but I'm just saying you can't say every single Shia ever does x, y, and z. I thought most scholars refrain from calling *all* Shia kafirs anyway, and instead single out specific sects or say that the educated ones are kafirs but the uneducated and unaware masses are not necessarily kafirs.

I just personally prefer to not label someone as a kafir, blindly, because if I'm wrong then that will come back at me, and I have no possible way of knowing if every single one of them is a kafir.

 

[zbhotto]

SOrry

Dear Sister;
IF any SHIA does not believe those then Alhamdullillah He/She is no longer be a SHIA. Call them sunni.

Probably you are decieved by some SHIA friends by their mesmerizing words. Every single SHIA on earth do not believe in KORAN. As simple as that. It is their IMAM KHOMENI in 1979 publicly declared some part of the Holly KORAN has been taken way. Aujubillah..........

It was their IMAM KHOMENI publicly declared a FATWA serving nation is better than praying and fasting. Aujubillah

Dont be deceived by SHIA, Note flaterry and mesmerizing words are used by DEVIL.

Truth does not need flaterry or soothing words. Truth is truth.

 

[Sayyeda]

Islamicthinking

:salam2:
My suggestion is that saudi governament and scholars should adopt a proper policy regarding shias like declare a uniform policy about them whyther they are muslims non muslims or any sect of them commits shirk,so there shuld be a proper and uniform announcement by the saudi govt,how to categorize them and wether treat them like muslims or non muslims,and if they are not muslims then why they are allowed in harum and kabaa.as our govt in pakistan has declared quadianies as non muslims and they are not allowed in our mosques and treated like non muslims minority,so that there is no Schism in islam.I hate this thing in Islam,like we have hundered of groups who call themselve muslims but all their practices are like non muslims.even these taliban who can them the guardian of islam but infact they are the most cruel enemies of muslims.not all the taliban but some of them who kill innocent people instead fighting the nato forces in afghanistan.

 

[safiya58]

why we don´t do dawa?

wow sister! are you serious?! man.. i didnt know that! but then how cum my shia friends are ok with me? and pray with me? i even sleep over there house! and they tell me that Allah is important, then Mohammed, THEN ali.. hmm.. ok, they believe in all that. but it doesnt mean we should talk badly bout them and treat them differently!Thank you for pointing that out, but still, you guys should still remember that these people still pray, still fast, stil believe in the ALMIGHTY and still beleive in the PROPHET and are still muslims. Look, think of them weird and hateful, but please, if you ever do meet one, please dont treat them differently or in a bad way.

:salam2:

dearest sister I understand where you are coming from and that you like your friends as individuals... I have also friends who are christian and I really like them.. cuz they are very kind ppl but still I don´t like their faith.... ofcourse we shouldn´t treat anyone bad just hate in our hearts their believe... but if you really like your friends and you want only good for them why you don´t try to convert them to Islam? this is something I really can not understand we the sunnis hate the shia believe but we don´t fight it. I mean by trying to convert the shias to sunni... I read aboud an article it was even here on tti that in Iraq there are american missionaries and they only went to there to convert some iraqis to christian... and I wish we muslims would be so committed to give dawa to shias instead of only hating them blindly.... it is more important to give dawa to shias and to "lost muslims" then to christians cuz the shia sect and those I called the "lost muslims" are an impediment for muslim unity.. at least in my oppinon... and again it is only the believe I hate not any individuals...

 

[Mabsoot]

Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullaaahi wa barakatuh,

This is an interesting thread, some interesting stories, I have many of my own, from my time in Lebanon and Syria and Saudia, but to make things short people just need to put time in understanding Islaam properly. To have sound Tawheed and belief. To know the value of our belief in Allaah Subhana wa ta'alaa, to have gheerah, or honour for the Sahaba and understand exactly how Islaam is to be learnt.

As for the Shi'ah, then they will play with people, especially if they know person is not so aware of their Islaam, especially what constitutes shirk and kufr, and the evil of it and the real meaning of the Kalimah.

I'm a sister :/

Not every Shia believes all of that. Some Shias are labeled Shias by family and culture but don't practice it just like some Sunnis are Sunnis by family and culture but don't know anything about Islam or practice it. Some Shias are ignorant of their own beliefs.

I'm not going to defend them anymore, but I'm just saying you can't say every single Shia ever does x, y, and z. I thought most scholars refrain from calling *all* Shia kafirs anyway, and instead single out specific sects or say that the educated ones are kafirs but the uneducated and unaware masses are not necessarily kafirs.

I just personally prefer to not label someone as a kafir, blindly, because if I'm wrong then that will come back at me, and I have no possible way of knowing if every single one of them is a kafir.

I agree with the sister, that we can not just label any person a disbeliever. This is wrong. As a Group, their beliefs put people outside of Islaam. We can not say an individual Raafidah is disbeliever, just because he or she apparently belongs to the "shia". -- But, if they convey the same beliefs and ideas as the sect they belong, then they are not Muslims. -

People aught to be careful, and not just make friends with anyone, especially if they are going to be speaking about Islaam. Unless they are sincere and they listen to you and will come to the Quran and Sunnah. Otherwise, do not debate and waste time with those who do Shirk and kufr, who curse the family of the Prophet and his companions.. and go against all truth.

 

[revix]

Video

Assalamu aleikum

I think this video can clarify some issues about this point(shia)

http://www.submit2allah.com/the-true-belief-of-the-shia-raafidah.html

Salaam

Helinton

 

[ivonne]

wow sister! are you serious?! man.. i didnt know that! but then how cum my shia friends are ok with me? and pray with me? i even sleep over there house! and they tell me that Allah is important, then Mohammed, THEN ali.. hmm.. ok, they believe in all that. but it doesnt mean we should talk badly bout them and treat them differently!Thank you for pointing that out, but still, you guys should still remember that these people still pray, still fast, stil believe in the ALMIGHTY and still beleive in the PROPHET and are still muslims. Look, think of them weird and hateful, but please, if you ever do meet one, please dont treat them differently or in a bad way.

Salam,

I absolutly agree and thank all peple who mentioned not to label oeple as Kuffar cause what does that make you if you think you ahve the right to judge anybody as NOBODY can exept from Allah swt he is the only one who knows whats on peoples heart tahts all I ahve to say.
And my best friend and most honest person I ever met was Shia she was such a kind girl just liie many Sunni friends so pelase be carefull otherwise you will be jugdes as well.

And I wnated to add that most people in Iran dotn like Islam at all anyway and dotn care at who they are swearong or not its not about being Shia or not that just swear anyway as they are forced to believe so it doesnt neccesarily mean they do it because they see Dunnis ts just what they are used to unfortunatly as I knwo sooooo many and they just dotn like Islam cause of the force of the goverment and they dislike arabs anyway so one more reason for them to swear if they are Shias or not many of them dont believe in God at alland just use the Shiism as excuse to swear and hate if you knwo what I mean I dotnlike them for that as well.

Salam

 

[Asja]

Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullaaahi wa barakatuh,

This is an interesting thread, some interesting stories, then they are not Muslims. -

:salam2:

There is nothing interesting in this thread as it has been only "copyed and pasted". We have red many like this before, where things have been generalised and where whole nation has been acused to be unbelievers, Astagfirullah.

And only Allah knows who are His honest and true servants and who are believers among us. We as Muslim should be very careful when we decide to call someone "unbeliever" and when we decide to say that "they do not follow Allahs Holy words and Sunnah of our beloved Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.s. becouse Allah has promissed that we will respond for every word of ours InshAllah. Instead of doing so we should make dua to Allah that He guides those who left His way and to have mercy upon them.

Only Allah can read souls and hearts and to people has been given only little knowledge, and we should be gratefull on knowledge that has been given to us and use it on the right way Allhamdullilah.

May Allah guide us all and He guides whom he wants SubhanAllah.

 

[um muhammad al-mahdi]

:salam2:

I'm sorry sister Asja but putting it like this it seems that brother Mabsoot called all the people in Iran "not Muslims". So I invite the other members to read the "whole" post of the brother:

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=346611&postcount=48

and, as the other members' posts, he is saying to be careful in labeling people, like you just said.



And apart from that yes, how can you accept someone that commits "Shirk"?!? Please...

 

[dunno]

hmm i didn't lable shias kuffar i said that anyone that is a shia and studying in Saudi's schools where we learn about true tawheed yes they are kuffar that's what my deen teachers told me and that's what i know
shias in Iran? all shia imams in iran or else where are kuffar
normal people in Iran? if they know true tawheed? and not follow it? they are kuffar if not they are not
i was talking about the people i met because i explained to them many times what they were doing was wrong and they still did it and really didn't care about what i said the people I MET didnt really care about finding the right path or learning about islam
please dont accuse me of labeling every shia as a kaffer

 

[island muslim]

Everyone dont forget that there is a 20% Sunni population in Iran so in no way we can say ALL of iran is kaffir or upon kufr because we can't even say that to the ordinary Shia who has no knowledge.

Anyways WHY is it that we continiously post threads that are more or less attacking shia's as a people? THey are kafir ok but SO ARE CHRISTIANS and JEWS. BUT THE SITE IS UNFAIR IF IT DOES NOT ALLOW HATE THREADS AGAINST THESE OTHER KUFR RELIGIONS BUT ALLOW AGAINST SHIA. WHY CAN'T WE BE FAIR AND TREAT THEM AS WE TREAT CHRISTIANS OR OTHER KAFIRS?
THE MODS CLOSE DOWN HATE THREADS OR THREDS THAT HAVE NO HIKMAH APPEAR ABOUT CHRISTIANITY OR JEWS OR OTHERS BUT SHIAS THEY JUST DONT TREAT THE SAME. I THINK WE SHOULD TREAT THEM EQUALLY AND WE SHOULD ALSO STRIVE TO MAKE DAWAH BASED ON HIKMAH TO THEM.

Instead I see many threads with a startimng video of some shia pracvtising kufr and endless statements like "SHIA ARE STUPID". We have enough threads refuting them based upon knowledge from the Quran and sunnah and we need the same himah where we dont allow personal attacks or attacks without knowledge or hikmah on other religions on this site due to the dawah intention of this site (WHICH I SUPPORT 100% AS A GOOD IDEA) to be extended to the shia WHO WE SHOULD TREAT THE SAME WAY WE TREAT AN AMERICAN OR WESTERN CHRISTIAN OR JEW. THE THING IS WE DONT AND WE KEEP ATTACKING "PERSIAN RAFIDHIS" WITHOUT BEING FAIR. Some are so blind that they forget/or don't know there are sunni persians as well in Iran.

I hope the mods take my point seriously. "Extend the same courtesy we do to other Kufr religions as we do on TTI"

 

[Asja]

:salam2:

I'm sorry sister Asja but putting it like this it seems that brother Mabsoot called all the people in Iran "not Muslims". So I invite the other members to read the "whole" post of the brother:

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=346611&postcount=48

and, as the other members' posts, he is saying to be careful in labeling people, like you just said.



And apart from that yes, how can you accept someone that commits "Shirk"?!? Please...

Sister Ukht1, if you read my post well you will see that I was talking in general and my post did not refer only on brother Mabsoots message, rather it was short view on threads before with the subject "Sunni vs Shia Muslims" If you press search button and you find threads on this subject and read very carefull replys that have been given there you will find not so pleasent coments.

In most of the coments all Shia have been called unbelievers and those who are comiting Shirk and only few rememberd that beetwen Shia there are also Shia Muslims and calling them unbelievers means sining.

Allhamdullilah that Muslims do not accept those who comit Shirk and we all agree on this, but Muslims also do not call their brothers and sister in Islam unbelievers Allhamdulilah.

We should have fear from Allah in every word that we say, in every deed that we do, in every thought, in every step Allhamdullilah becouse for everything we will respond and than what will we say???

And I would also like to remaind first myselfe and than others too that we should first read very carefully replys of others, understand the meaning and than to give coments or if we are unable to understand to ask for explanation InshAllah.

May Allah guide us all on the right path and may He guide those who left His way so their hearts can be fulfiled with love towards Him, becouse there is noone like Him, He is the Greatest SubhanAllah.

Jazzak Allah khair

 

[Idris16]

I wholeheartedly agree with island_muslim! but insh'Allah i will try to post videos from YT how sunnis and shi'as are debating from Al Mustaqillah channel. Then the people can decide who are on the haqq in the debate.

 

[island muslim]

I wholeheartedly agree with island_muslim! but insh'Allah i will try to post videos from YT how sunnis and shi'as are debating from Al Mustaqillah channel. Then the people can decide who are on the haqq in the debate.

Jazakumallah khairan wa barakallah feekum

Atleast one brother agrees with me and SEE WHAT I SEE without bias.

 

[Al-Kashmiri]

Everyone dont forget that there is a 20% Sunni population in Iran so in no way we can say ALL of iran is kaffir or upon kufr because we can't even say that to the ordinary Shia who has no knowledge.

Anyways WHY is it that we continiously post threads that are more or less attacking shia's as a people? THey are kafir ok but SO ARE CHRISTIANS and JEWS. BUT THE SITE IS UNFAIR IF IT DOES NOT ALLOW HATE THREADS AGAINST THESE OTHER KUFR RELIGIONS BUT ALLOW AGAINST SHIA. WHY CAN'T WE BE FAIR AND TREAT THEM AS WE TREAT CHRISTIANS OR OTHER KAFIRS?
THE MODS CLOSE DOWN HATE THREADS OR THREDS THAT HAVE NO HIKMAH APPEAR ABOUT CHRISTIANITY OR JEWS OR OTHERS BUT SHIAS THEY JUST DONT TREAT THE SAME. I THINK WE SHOULD TREAT THEM EQUALLY AND WE SHOULD ALSO STRIVE TO MAKE DAWAH BASED ON HIKMAH TO THEM.

Instead I see many threads with a startimng video of some shia pracvtising kufr and endless statements like "SHIA ARE STUPID". We have enough threads refuting them based upon knowledge from the Quran and sunnah and we need the same himah where we dont allow personal attacks or attacks without knowledge or hikmah on other religions on this site due to the dawah intention of this site (WHICH I SUPPORT 100% AS A GOOD IDEA) to be extended to the shia WHO WE SHOULD TREAT THE SAME WAY WE TREAT AN AMERICAN OR WESTERN CHRISTIAN OR JEW. THE THING IS WE DONT AND WE KEEP ATTACKING "PERSIAN RAFIDHIS" WITHOUT BEING FAIR. Some are so blind that they forget/or don't know there are sunni persians as well in Iran.

I hope the mods take my point seriously. "Extend the same courtesy we do to other Kufr religions as we do on TTI"

As-salaamu `alaykum

????

Examples please (via pm)? Sorry akhi, but I think I can see what you're saying, but that came across VERY exaggerated.

 

[saif]

:salam2:

I agree with sister Asja and partially with island muslim (apart from his being so sure about the kufr of shia). To summarize it in one sentence: If dogs could write emails, I am sure, they would be treated much better than shia muslims on this site.

Ehena ssiraat el mustaqeem.

 

[salek]

i will invite my shia brothers and sisters to study quran and hadith, to know islam properly and be back to the path of our beloved prophet(s). may allah swt grants hidayah to all.