Al-Qaida plotted post 9/11 attacks on US, leaked files show

JenGiove

Junior Member
http://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/26/al-qaida-plotted-post-9-11-attacks-on-us-leaked-files-show/

WASHINGTON - Classified military files obtained by the WikiLeaks website reveal a range of potential al-Qaida plots against the United States, including post-9/11 aircraft attacks on the West Coast, The New York Times reported Monday.

The schemes - none of which were executed - are described in U.S. military assessments of terrorism suspects being held at the military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Those detainees include Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the alleged mastermind of the 9/11 attacks.

One of the dossiers described by the Times concerns Saifullah Paracha, a New York travel agent for years who allegedly worked with Mohammed on plots to follow up on the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. One plan suggested by Paracha involved smuggling plastic explosives in shipments of clothing bound for the U.S., the Times reported.

The U.S. assessment of Mohammed, posted on the WikiLeaks site, describes an early 2002 meeting with former Chicago gang member Jose Padilla. The file says Mohammed directed Padilla to rent an apartment in Chicago and "initiate a natural gas explosion to cause the building to collapse." Mohammed also told Padilla to "study the feasibility" of setting fire to a hotel or gas station, the assessment says.

Padilla was accused in 2002 of plotting to blow up a radioactive "dirty bomb" though those claims were eventually dropped. He was later convicted along with two others in an unrelated terrorism plot.

The Mohammed file also includes discussions of plots to hijack cargo planes, hack into bank computers and cut the cables holding up the Brooklyn Bridge.


The Times said the assessments were obtained last year by WikiLeaks but provided to the newspaper by another source.

The Defense Department on Monday condemned the release of information from the classified documents, which it said were written between 2002 and early 2009 and "based on a range of information available then." The leaked files "may or may not represent the current view of a given detainee," the Pentagon said.

White House Press Secretary Jay Carney echoed that statement, telling reporters Monday that "a detainee assessment brief in 2006 may or may not be reflective of the administration or the government's view of that particular detainee in 2011."
 

JenGiove

Junior Member
:salam2:

I was just posting what I saw just as others post what they see from the other side of the shoe. What I find interesting is that any other time a "wikileaks" post is made, it is accepted without question and people have the attitude of "see! we told you so!" and yet here, when *I* post something that isn't favorable, its questioned. Now, I'm not saying that I don't question the timing of this "leak"...it seems almost obvious that it was a plotted leak, yet it still comes from the same source.

So why the contradiction?
 

Valerie

Junior Member
:salam2:

I was just posting what I saw just as others post what they see from the other side of the shoe. What I find interesting is that any other time a "wikileaks" post is made, it is accepted without question and people have the attitude of "see! we told you so!" and yet here, when *I* post something that isn't favorable, its questioned. Now, I'm not saying that I don't question the timing of this "leak"...it seems almost obvious that it was a plotted leak, yet it still comes from the same source.

So why the contradiction?

:wasalam:

I can't agree more with this post. And the answer to the question is pretty obvious. Pots and Kettles.
 

saifkhan

abd-Allah
as-salam 'alaikum

look, the couldn't even proof anything yet and they did massacre in Afghanistan, if it was a proved case, they would have vanished Afghanistan from the globe.

it was a plot to enter into Afghanistan to Pakistan and to take control over south-east Asia. before 5 years there were no bombings in Pakistan mosque,and in friday Jumuah prayers!!

and who the h*ll is wikileaks, that we need to trust them?!

wa-llaahu ta'la a'lam

wassalamun alaik
 

Ahsen

Junior Member
The policy of the west is divide and rule.It's like that since centuries and we muslims still can't open our eyes.First let's gather on what unites us.
 

JenGiove

Junior Member
:salam2:

So let me see if I understand the general sentiment here on TTI....

If a news report comes out and it portrays Muslims in a positive light, its truth...

but..

If a news report comes out that portrays Muslims in a negative light, its false and a plot against the Ummah?

...am I understanding this correctly? Because that is how it appears..
 

arzafar

Junior Member
al-qaeda doesnt begin with 9/11. It has its roots in american support of Israel's occupation, the humiliation of arabs by the jews (1967 onwards) and concerning America specifically it begins in 1979 when the american/saudi funded afghan jihad began. However, NYT and almost all news media outlets completely ignore that part and instead choose to begin their story from 9/11.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ied-to-deadly-cia-attack-suspect-1855399.html

not to forget that hikmatyar of hizbe islami, ahmed shah masood of northern alliance (murdered by CIA not the taliban as is reported) and haqqani (his son is now the leader of the notorious haqqani network), all received hundreds of millions of dollars of military aid and equipment from the US and saudia, distributed by the pakistani intel agency ISI. Post-9/11 both haqqani and hikmatyar are considered alqaeda. in fact anyone who is muslim and fights American interest is al-qaeda/extremist/islamist/taliban depending upon how big a threat they pose.

However, as noted above, the full story will never be published by the news media outlets.
 

JenGiove

Junior Member
:salam2:

So all Muslims are flawless and perfect....?

And anyone who's not a Muslim is out to destroy the Ummah....?

Is that correct?
 

Mabsoot

Amir
Staff member
:salam2:

So all Muslims are flawless and perfect....?

And anyone who's not a Muslim is out to destroy the Ummah....?

Is that correct?

Hi JenGiove,

Nobody here said that Muslims are flawless and perfect. Muslims are human beings, and make mistakes.

Islam is Flawless and perfect. However, not all Muslims follow Islam properly. We should judge people based on their adherence to Islam, rather than judging Islam based on what people do.

As for your last question,

"And anyone who's not a Muslim is out to destroy the Ummah....?" --

Considering so many people here are reverts - former non-Muslims, and the fact that you have been made welcome and accepted into our community, that is not very logical.

Anyhow, I take all the reportage from Wikileaks with a pinch of salt.
 

JenGiove

Junior Member
Hi JenGiove,

Nobody here said that Muslims are flawless and perfect. Muslims are human beings, and make mistakes.

Islam is Flawless and perfect. However, not all Muslims follow Islam properly. We should judge people based on their adherence to Islam, rather than judging Islam based on what people do.

As for your last question,

"And anyone who's not a Muslim is out to destroy the Ummah....?" --

Considering so many people here are reverts - former non-Muslims, and the fact that you have been made welcome and accepted into our community, that is not very logical.

Anyhow, I take all the reportage from Wikileaks with a pinch of salt.

:salam2: Brother Mabsoot,

I will admit that on this issue of "us and them", I'm heated and probably have failed miserably at containing my ire, but if you look at this thread's responce by the members http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76772 which sheds a poor light on America and then compare the reaction of the members to THIS thread you will see the discrepancy. The members seem to be reacting to Wikileaks haphazardly. If its an anti American leak, its taken as proof that America is the evil empire and if its a leak that shows the imperfection of man and the foul abuse of Islam's teachings by people who claim to be Muslim, then its deemed skeptical information.

Islam is about truth and honor and logic...well, it just so happens that this non-Muslim, who holds dear her associations with her sisters and the logic of Islam, is holding up the mirror of self examination. I constantly read the single question "What is wrong with the Ummah today?". This is what's wrong with it. The hesitancy of the people to stand up and say that in this case or that case we were wrong. We errored. We were the ones who caused offense to someone/something outside of the Ummah.

The fear of saying 'I'm sorry" is, in my personal view, cowardice.
 

Mabsoot

Amir
Staff member
Hi JenGiove,

I believe that the situation needs to be seen from a wider perspective. A lot of people, not just Muslims believe that the US has become a hegemonic war machine. Billions of dollars worth of Military aid is given to "Israel", which illegally occupies the Palestinian territories and carries out daily human rights abuses. It was the CIA, in 1953 which helped overthrow the Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh, who was in fact democratically elected. It was they who sponsored the Taliban throughout the 80s, as well as being best buddies with Saddam Hussein.

So, all of these problems have sprouted seeds of distrust. It is not merely with the US, but with the UK and other states who have not dealt justly with other weaker countries, with their foreign policies.

Right now there is a war waging in Iraq. A war which should never have happened and which has cost almost a million innocent lives. Millions of other lives have already been lost from the previous wars and sanctions. - At same time, UN resolutions condemning "Israel", have always been vetoed by the US. It is this gross injustice, which not only pains Muslims, but any other decent hearted human being on this planet. - This is about the lives of men, women and children. People who wanted to live free, who wanted to be able to provide and to move forward in life, but were brutally stopped - due to the unfettered greed and corruption of the ruling elite of the West who unreservedly manipulate people through their control of politics and the media.

This is not to say people "hate" Americans. Rather, you wanted to know why people are more susceptible to believing Wikileaks when it comes to negative, damaging leaks about US policies. - Its because its more likely to be true.

On what legal basis did the Iraq invasion happen?

On what legal basis were people, aged between 14 and 70 imprisoned without lawyers, without charge and without trials, in Guantanamo Bay?

- Is the law too ambiguous? Afterall, drugging, blindfolding, placing people on "Rendition flights", torturing them and caging people up for years on end, is just too common an occurrence in the civilised world for us to come up with a definite answer. So, lets move on to something bit more substantiated by International law..

On what basis were the UN resolutions vetoed by the US? For example, the one from earlier in 2011, which calls for the condemning of illegal Israeli settlements in the Palestinian territories as an "obstacle to peace"? --

Let me break that down for you: These are settlements built by breaking International Law, and yet, can not be condemned by the US, and vetoed in favour of "israel".

You asked some questions, and now I have. And may I say, that we have rules that disallow unfair verbal bashing of any people or countries. The USA has contributed greatly to the world, there have been some outstanding American citizens, at same time it is also wrong to assume, that criticism is never allowed or means "anti-americanism" of any kind.

- And Muslims do hold mirrors up and speak about issues. We condemn those who call themselves Muslims, and do acts that oppose the original teachings of Islam. - We are opposed to any form of criminality - and the Quran teaches us to speak out against any form of evil or tyranny.

Thank You
 

justoneofmillion

Junior Member
The fear of saying 'I'm sorry" is, in my personal view, cowardice.
Good evening,"Am sorry" can I ask what crime am I to apologize for?

On that day I remember being at the gym when I saw the first Images thousands and thousands of kilometers away from new York city.

I remember seeing some footage a while after about so called "hijackers" being drunk , visiting the striptease bars,and swearing "in the name of Allah of Myself and my family"!!!! a night before sacrificing themselves for Allah!no Muslim would do this or talk like that,what kind of joke is this?this is a very strange situation.There are so many weird happening about the subject that I Don't wanna go through all of them right now,not in the mood for this.

Even if after all the requests for proper investigation, from American ,European politicians scientists,engineers,explosive expert,Architects...etc Who do not regard the official version of the happening as plausible.Why would any regular Muslim feel guilty for this!this is complete nonsense.

Ever heard of the association of Architects and Engineers for 911 truth..these are more than 800 professionals in their field,all Americans.

Here is a detailed video below if you are interested.These are not necessarily conspiracy loving guys,they are experts in their respective fields and raise legitimate and purely scientific questions.

[yt]v8wSquKIBog[/yt]

I wasn't laughing on that day no. you should tell the guys below to apologize if at all.

[yt]tRfhUezbKLw[/yt]



Would you apologize for the crimes your representative government has perpetrated all across the Globe?From Nagasaki to Vietnam,from Nicaragua to Iraq Afghanistan,Palestine ,Lebanon would you? Would you apologize for the economic war it has launched on every nation's farmers through it's banking cartel gangsters of The federal reserve and the world bank. It is It would be absurd.You would say" it is beyond me, am busy with my own life and try to make a living somehow for myself and my loved ones" like every body would . How would you feel I got the shameless audacity to describe your attitude as cowardice?!

Each and everyone of us has the right to speak up their minds.This right has be given by my Lord way before your constitution was drawn or any constitution for that matter.Before the Medias,the news papers and the electroshocks.

America is not the center of the world, there are other people living elsewhere if you didn't notice their presence.If Muslims have a certain skepticism towards The united states government ,it is because it never minds it 's own business and keeps interfering and forcing it's will on nations and supporting dictators that turn the lives of the inhabitants into nightmares.Tyrants who make it impossible for them to build a house ,raise and feed a family,rent a place...etc
Situations that would make any individual irrespective from their race ,religion or culture hopeless and full of resentment.No Human being in the world wakes up one day and decides to dislike a certain nation out of the blue without reason ,except a brainwashed ideologically driven fool.

Why don't Muslim have any problem with Japan or Sweden or Newzeland or Tibet....'"Because they hate our freedom"like Bush said.What a preposterous ,foolish idea to ensnare but the one that has already being chilling with the Sandman for a long long time.

I Like Mark Twain but I don't like Bush and his gang.I think Natalie Portman is cute but that Zippi livni is ugly.That Bach ,Beethoven and Mozart were pioneers in their field but that Hitler was short sighted.That Dostoevsky was a wonderful writer but Stalin didn't leave but a bloody stain in the books of history. Does this make me a hater of any people because of were they live , where they happen to be born or what parents they had?!Hell no!
.
Try to put yourself even if for a brief moment under the skin of a Palestinian mother.Living daily in fear of not knowing whether her child her husband or relative will be coming home safely.Try to think what goes on in a Palestinian young man's mind when he goes through the Zionist checkpoints and the Humiliation he has got to face in front of his parents,wife or children .Now I don't know what you would do but I would be dead by now,"Even Steven" like Malcolm said.

Muslims have no reason to be apologetic .Killing innocents is a no go period.The only change each and everyone of us can make is through education,information ,understanding and patience but we are not responsible for the acts of those who do not follow Islam whatever belief they might ascribe to.
 

JenGiove

Junior Member
:salam2: Brother Mabsoot,

I wish I was better versed in politics to present a fair debate with you, but I'm not. I've never been one to follow politics beyond what affects my own front door. It is only thought learning about Islam and being here that I have become more aware of the greater world around me and how events in this world affect the people I know. During the uprisings in Egypt, I was glued to the national news networks because of my dear sister, Revert2007. To me, her life and the lives of her family were in danger and I was worried sick.

I can't argue that the atrocities inflicted upon the innocent bystanders of the conflict in Israel and Gaza are something to be ignored. I've seen the videos that Sister Harb has so kindly shown us and I've watched a few on my own. One I remember watching was about trying to get someone to a hospital and they wouldn't let them pass even though the hospital was right there, right across the border. The inhumanity was unreal to me!

War is hell and people get hurt. Its awful that children get burned and women get raped and beaten. All these things are awful and disgusting. But how do you distinguish between an innocent child or woman and one who has a bomb strapped to their body under their clothes or may be carrying a message for someone else who DOES what to blow up something? The child may only be thinking in terms of his stomach and is getting paid to deliver a simple message for some unknown person, but if you were in charge of preventing terrorist acts from taking place, wouldn't you be suspicious of everyone?

I know about the mistrust of governments. America has never kept one single treaty with the Native people it ever made. They've raped lands that we hold sacred <the Black Hills> and massacred women, children and the elderly for simply practicing a religious ceremony. They slaughtered the Buffalo on the plains for sport all the while knowing that it was the main source of survival for the people in the west. They rounded up our people, forced them to walk thousands of miles in the snow to place them on reservations in an area of the country that they did not know. I know of one tribe who walked hundreds of miles through swamp to evade them and the women were forced to smother their infants until dead just to protect the rest of the tribe when they would cry. All because of the greed and self-righteousness of the American government.

Canada is slowly correcting its wrongs and is making attempts to renew treaties and return stolen artifacts back to the people they belong to. America has yet to make such bold moves but slowly, they are trying.

I posted the original article because it was news. Not out of judgement or to slander but because while it does not mention the words "Muslim" or "Islam", we ALL know that the people held at the jail all claim the label of "Muslim". What surprised me greatly was how distrustful people were of THIS "leak", which did not portray certain members of the Ummah in a favorable light, while another "leak", which is unfavorable to America, as something to trust and proof of the validity of the hatred against America. Why the conflict? Is it simply because any news that sheds light on the incorrect use of Islam and the justification of America's action is unwanted and doesn't want to be heard? How fair is that? How just is that?

If we are to improve as human beings, we can not be afraid to look at the soil of our own families. How are we to correct ourselves and become more powerful internally if we do not become willing to acknowledge the dirt? By not actively condemning the actions of the few who wave the banner of Islam while abusing its teaching and twisting its permissions, we are only condoning such actions and it makes us weak.

Out of curiosity, I did a search here relating to Saddam Hussein to see what the members were saying in regards to him. What I found shocked me. People generally said that while what he did to his people was awful, he's a Muslim now so we have to forgive him. WHAT? What makes you think it wasn't a ploy to gain the backing of the Ummah? There's a saying, there's no atheists in foxholes. That man knew he screwed up and knew he was facing the death sentence. What if he was trying to deceive the Ummah, thus maybe getting life in prison instead of death? He killed, his sons killed and they all systematically tortured and raped countless people. Suddenly this monster finds God and everything is all forgiven and he's now a brother?

I don't understand it..
 

Mabsoot

Amir
Staff member
:salam2: Brother Mabsoot,

Out of curiosity, I did a search here relating to Saddam Hussein to see what the members were saying in regards to him. What I found shocked me. People generally said that while what he did to his people was awful, he's a Muslim now so we have to forgive him. WHAT? What makes you think it wasn't a ploy to gain the backing of the Ummah? There's a saying, there's no atheists in foxholes. That man knew he screwed up and knew he was facing the death sentence. What if he was trying to deceive the Ummah, thus maybe getting life in prison instead of death? He killed, his sons killed and they all systematically tortured and raped countless people. Suddenly this monster finds God and everything is all forgiven and he's now a brother?

I don't understand it..

Wa alaykum salam Jen,

I am pretty confident nobody excused him of the crimes he committed. Most people testify that Saddam Hussein was an extremely cruel dictator responsible for the killing of thousands of people.

With regards to his last days and him reading the Quran and praying, then it is not for us to judge him, but God alone. Certainly his trial and execution were a sham and hastily carried out.

- Saddam Hussein, his history and friendship with many of the senior leaders from the Bush administration, was a potential embarrassment to the coalition.

Also, what about those who armed and supplied Saddam with chemicals to go ahead and invade Iran, or that they will not interfere if he tried to take Kuwait?
 

JenGiove

Junior Member
Wa alaykum salam Jen,]

I am pretty confident nobody excused him of the crimes he committed. Most people testify that Saddam Hussein was an extremely cruel dictator responsible for the killing of thousands of people.

Good Brother Mabsoot,

I'll have to do a search again to show you what I was in reference to. One person actually said something along the lines of "well, at least he kept the people in control"...or something like that. It was almost glowing about him.

With regards to his last days and him reading the Quran and praying, then it is not for us to judge him, but God alone. Certainly his trial and execution were a sham and hastily carried out.
Agreed, it is up to God, but personally, I think it was another ploy to control the people and get backing for him and outrage against the coalition forces. I also think that there was no way he was ever going to get a fair and equal trial within Iraq. The people were too angry over his atrocities. I read somewhere that he was executed on the eve of Ramadan<?>. That too was not right.

- Saddam Hussein, his history and friendship with many of the senior leaders from the Bush administration, was a potential embarrassment to the coalition.
He had long stopped being a friend of America and other forces and yes, it was an embarrassment which was reported in the news but we have many such ugly moments in history. Just look at Vietnam. We're STILL trying to deal with backlash of that.

Also, what about those who armed and supplied Saddam with chemicals to go ahead and invade Iran, or that they will not interfere if he tried to take Kuwait?
Sorry but that's a part of the soup of all this that I have too little information to comment on. I was too busy getting clean and sober and getting UNhomeless during those times.

PS: I have an 8 hr trip in the morning....WHY am I awake?
 
Top