i have no personal stance right now. I am very young and I find myself stranded in this religious debate. I find either extremist muslims around me which do nothing except complicating the subject and on the other hand I have the people who do reasoning on every issue and though i don't agree with their religious approach because i believe Islam is the best but I have never been able to produce logic against their claims. They have reasons to consider themselves as enlightened as they help in bringing up the resolutions which save women. While our religious scholars do absolutely nothing to address such issues.
How to answer difficulty questions from atheists?
- Thread starter Azmul
- Start date
i have no personal stance right now. I am very young and I find myself stranded in this religious debate. I find either extremist muslims around me which do nothing except complicating the subject and on the other hand I have the people who do reasoning on every issue and though i don't agree with their religious approach because i believe Islam is the best but I have never been able to produce logic against their claims. They have reasons to consider themselves as enlightened as they help in bringing up the resolutions which save women. While our religious scholars do absolutely nothing to address such issues.
salam brother ican understand your positon ,and your not wrong to seek answers and ask questions ..we are always told to seek more knowledge,,,
and inshllah you will find answers to all these questions...
but just try to be clear wiht the questions you ask and you will get clear answers inshallah
Assalaam walaikum,
Remove yourself from the debate. You are not sure of where you stand. You are unsure of what to believe. Your questions are confused. And you blame Muslims. No.
You have not taken the time to study the scholars of Islam. You keep using the word extremist. who is an extremist. You word choice lets me know you need to study a little more. Go and speak to an imam.
Your inability to convince the atheists is making you doubt. They are the ones who rejected faith and will twist words to satisfy themselves. They are the sick ones.
Ask them simple questions such as if you do not fear hell fire how can you have a system of right and wrong. How can you say family planning is good when the core of family planners is to have a superrace and abort everyone who is not a member of the clan. Is it really in the interest of women's rights to have cosmetic surgery to please the man? Explain to me how it is in the best interest of women to go to war as soldiers and be raped..one in three is raped.
Take time out and learn more about Islam. Do not argue with anyone until you are sure about your faith. Make it stronger. And do not blame other Muslims.
Remove yourself from the debate. You are not sure of where you stand. You are unsure of what to believe. Your questions are confused. And you blame Muslims. No.
You have not taken the time to study the scholars of Islam. You keep using the word extremist. who is an extremist. You word choice lets me know you need to study a little more. Go and speak to an imam.
Your inability to convince the atheists is making you doubt. They are the ones who rejected faith and will twist words to satisfy themselves. They are the sick ones.
Ask them simple questions such as if you do not fear hell fire how can you have a system of right and wrong. How can you say family planning is good when the core of family planners is to have a superrace and abort everyone who is not a member of the clan. Is it really in the interest of women's rights to have cosmetic surgery to please the man? Explain to me how it is in the best interest of women to go to war as soldiers and be raped..one in three is raped.
Take time out and learn more about Islam. Do not argue with anyone until you are sure about your faith. Make it stronger. And do not blame other Muslims.
I have talked to Imams. I have visited many mosques, tried my best to get a better scholar but you know where does the debate end? everyone says that these questions are going to divert my immature mind so don't think over them.
I have posted my questions on internet too, have tried many sites but have never found answers. You want me to talk to imams, let me tell you i have never seen such conservative people ever! they hardly delve nor do they encourage deep thinking. I get frustrated because of these reasons. I don't call all muslims bad, of course they aren't. But that really doesn't mean that all are good either. Perhaps you live in America but in Pakistan situation is a lot worse. Perhaps real Islam is no more practiced here.
Seeking Allah's Mercy
Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!
Hey, Welcome to the forums.
So I take it that you are a Muslim. It could have been better to start your post off with a salam rather than Hi. Khair Inshaa'Allaah.
Can I know WHY do you bother wasting your time debating athiest when you don't have enough knowledge? Why put your own feeble Imaan in danger? They don't believe in the God you believe in or in the revelation you follow, why in the world would they take any logic from you for any of these questions.
It's more like YOU want to have LOGICAL answers to these question rather than the athiest. Seems like they did their job, you are already in doubt about your faith.
Take my advice and don't waste your time and Imaan debating, Seek knowledge! Seek knowledge! Seek knowledge!
If at all you have to debate first establish the foundation. Is there a God, Is Qur'an the world of God. Only after that let them question what ever question they have. Best say: You don't believe in, or the existance of the God I believe in, why should matter to you what logic He gives or what He says about such and such.
Now to your Questions. I'll give answers that which are given to us by the Qu'ran and the Sunnah and our knowledgable scholars. For us they are enough. Logical for you or not, that doesn't matter. Remember we only convey, we don't guide. We can only help people understand the deen and it's logic, not get them to understand it. It's upto them to accept or reject what's in front of them. We don't rub them into their faces. Similarly it's upto you to accept and reject. Whatever facts your are given, if it doesn't suit you, then suit yourself and leave. TTI is doesn't welcome arguments (weather you choose to do or not, I feel the need to let you know)
Jazakallah khair.
Slavery in Islam is not like that of times of Jahiliyyah. It's different. No free man can sold as slave. Slaves can only be taken in wars.
1) To make sure the enemies know what they are getting at, it's not just death for them if they fight the Muslims, it can be slavery for their kith and kin. With this, they would rather make peace treaty than go violent. So a lot of violence can be warded off.
2) To abolish the trend of kidnapping and making free people slaves.
3) Since there is no such thing as real Islamic war these days, there is no such thing as slavery.
I said it's different. How so? Firstly read this :http://islamqa.info/en/ref/94840/Slavery in Islam to understand slavery in islam. You'll see that a slave is free if you hit him, he can be a leader in wars and prayers, he is to wear what you wear, to eat what you eat. To provided with knowledge and not to get work more than he can take it. The slaves are also set free if they are of good character and behaviour. So if in wars an enemy is taken slave. He turns out to be a good man, it's Mustahaab and some scholars say Wajib to set him free. So a slave is a slave as long as he misbehaves and creates mischief. Islam didn't not abolish slavery in clear terms, but designed such system that it abolish slavery without a drop of blood spilled, a bullet fired contrary to what happened in the west.
How? by Allah's will. You have a problem with that? we don't. No Islam is not SO baised against female. It's not baised at all. No body questions why Jannah lies under a females feet, why wife gets to keep her inherited wealth and still gets all her necessasity fulfilled by her husband contrary to the west, where even today, all the wife's wealth belongs to the husband. Why male has to go and fight and get himself killed? Why he has to be the on to deal with the responsiblities of a leader? Why do you question WHY? lol.
You mean tapping, right? He is not allowed to beat her.
Well, police can catch a theif, if police steal does the common man catch him? No. You favourite question, WHY? To keep the society stable and have a system. A father punishes his two year old when he wrongs, does the child beat his dad, No. WHY 'cos he can't. If a girl were to beat her husband. What would happen then. You don't expect him to look at her and smile, do you?
Firstly, in Islamic juridpredence that which cannot be proven Haram is halal. If there is nothing prohibiting a woman from beating her husband, she can. But if she's sensible, she's rather go legal than get her bones crushed!
Secondly, she's not tapped for being "ignorant" but for being rebellious. If she refuses his rights in bed, than after advising and discussing with her, as a last resort he can "tap" her so as to discipline her. First and foremost aim to be achieved by marriage is to fulfill each others desire in a Halal way, if that's not happening, what's the point marrying that man. Go, get separated. Leave him alone.
Prove please? If you read the hadith, it says what Allaah wills will happen, we can't stop it. Having many kids are encouraged, but killing ones kids or completely destroying your fertility is haram. If their is prove to say family planning is haram, please be so kind as to provide it.
There are only two gender available and one had to be in excess so it was females. What's so terrible or Illogical about that? I believe we are in excess in duniya too. It's like saying why are there more men in army and women in dance business?
The reason, is given in the hadith if you read it again: it's because we curse and because we are ungrateful. You think this is wrong? who whines more and is more materialistic? Men or women?
Read this : http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=440503&postcount=2 , If you wish to understand. If not. Boye boye can't help you no more!
Ahem Ahem! Do you know why religious belief is called faith? Because not everything requires logic. It just need a sincere heart and soul. For example : Explain why a mother loves her child so much LOGICALLY when he's pain when he's born, pain when he's poops, pain when he's fed, pain when he grows up? WHY?
May Allaah help you out.
Wasalamo 'Alaykum wa rahmatullahi Wa barakaatuh.
Seeking Allah's Mercy
Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!
To some extent you are quite right, and that's real real sad. Khair Inshaa'Allaah. Hopefully I gave you 'some' understanding of those concepts in Islam. I wasted a lot of time debating these athiest (still do sometimes), you get logical or not, they don't believe in our Lord or revelation, NOTHING we say makes sense to them. It's only getting yourself in danger. Don't try to pull someone out of a dangerous and wild sea storm, unless the rope around you waist, that connects you to Allah; is strong and not just a thread. It happens only if you know your Lord and His word i.e the Qur'an. So seek Knowledge before you debate Inshaa'Allaah!
sachin4islam
Junior Member
Assalamu Alaikum:
Seems,Allahu Aalim and may Allah (SWT) forbid,the brain of this youth has been washed out by Atheists. He himself dwells in state of high dilemma.
But no blame on him,as such atheists are a very powerful lobby purely based on scientific approach,logic and rationality. They may exhaust Imaan of any Muslim.
Best thing for a Believer is to practice his Deen and avoid futile discussions until he/she calibers himself/herself to a status of a scholar.
Regards.
Seems,Allahu Aalim and may Allah (SWT) forbid,the brain of this youth has been washed out by Atheists. He himself dwells in state of high dilemma.
But no blame on him,as such atheists are a very powerful lobby purely based on scientific approach,logic and rationality. They may exhaust Imaan of any Muslim.
Best thing for a Believer is to practice his Deen and avoid futile discussions until he/she calibers himself/herself to a status of a scholar.
Regards.
Assalaam walaikum,
First, son...please take time to understand what is real Islam. Do not engage with those who are confused. Are we not told to walk away from such conversations.
You need to take time and study what you mean by conservative and liberal...whose definition are you using? Do not make statements that Muslims in Pakistan are not following the faith. We have to stand up before Allah one day, InshaAllah.
You need to learn to separate political ideology from pure religious thought. It takes time.
Start right here. When you have a chance PM..I have some links, too. Let's close this thread and move on. Ask questions that you want to ask..do not be the mouthpiece of those who only want to play with words.
Brother Sachin4Islam...you may be the person he needs to talk to.
First, son...please take time to understand what is real Islam. Do not engage with those who are confused. Are we not told to walk away from such conversations.
You need to take time and study what you mean by conservative and liberal...whose definition are you using? Do not make statements that Muslims in Pakistan are not following the faith. We have to stand up before Allah one day, InshaAllah.
You need to learn to separate political ideology from pure religious thought. It takes time.
Start right here. When you have a chance PM..I have some links, too. Let's close this thread and move on. Ask questions that you want to ask..do not be the mouthpiece of those who only want to play with words.
Brother Sachin4Islam...you may be the person he needs to talk to.
sachin4islam
Junior Member
Assalamu Alaikum: Respected Aapa.
My pleasure. InshaAllah,I will communicate with him and pray Allah (SWT) to safeguard Imaan of this youth.
Regards.
K-A-K
Junior Member
Salam 
Please remember one thing before you delve into a huge atheist-theist discourse: Human logic sometimes err. We do not at times find the wisdom behind certain things. so we need to give it time and see its various aspects. Just give it time. I know this isn't a logical answer but we need to put in some effort! So, just pray & put in some effort. Think about the answers, for some time and count what other ways the people can adopt. You'll get your answer.
Look, I am a Muslim girl. And I am happy to be one. I mean if I can get low enough to cheat, then I wouldn't mind my husband tapping/beating me. We're humans, and sincerity is within us. You just can't say that beating/tapping is the first and only resort! It's only to be used when matters go worse. You need to be a girl to understand certain parts, like I can't really understand the male things. Our minds are different and its the beauty of it all. We have what you lack. And you have what we lack. Pairs!
Another thing, God gives everyone a chance to reform. and Retract. Maybe it is your time to get your answers straight. And get to the truest form of Deen. We all have hurdles in our path to understanding. Its a way of purification, really. For you, Atheists came out big time. This is good and bad in all ways. It will bring more humility in you. inshAllah. Atheists choose not to believe in God because they don't want to struggle to find Him. If they struggle, they'll get somewhat near. Religion and Belief doesn't come in a day! It takes months and years. Really! Been there, done that! :S
You have to understand that they do not want to believe in God anyway. They'll pick up the most metaphorical of things and abuse them. And that's the beauty of it... And that's how God and we can know how true each person is. If he/she will put some effort into understanding things or not! Remember its not God who pushes us into Hell, its we ourselves. Our delusions and over dependence on what we actually are not.
You have a right to question things if you don't understand. Because blind faith doesn't amount to much. We have so many Muslims, Christians, Hindus, etc who have blind faith... They have their Books, except they don;t want to go into them. It requires time and effort and we're not ready for that... This is Post Modernity. Everything is readymade for you. But too bad, when it comes to salvation, one has to make some major effort. It doesn;t come that easy! Its infinity afterall!
I get troubled by many questions too. Then I cry, and pray that some way will come out and answer will be there. And after some time answers do come! He helps, in a subtle way. But you have to feel it!
Just do not lose hope. If they question you rigorously, tell them that I believe in God, and want Him to be there. I shall struggle and He'll truly help me! Tell them to their face that faith & belief needs hard work. If it didn;t, He would've made us ready made believers!
And Pakistan and so many other countries.. Haaa! They are going nowhere because of their people. People have just become so different. I wonder what happened. We are a failing people today because we've depended too much on our objective reasoning. Like we can't touch the sensation of beauty, Faith cannot be touched. It has to be felt and witnessed! with eyes, ears, mind and heart!
So, please take some time... I am an impatient person too BUT its always better to be patient!
Wasalam! Prayers.
Please remember one thing before you delve into a huge atheist-theist discourse: Human logic sometimes err. We do not at times find the wisdom behind certain things. so we need to give it time and see its various aspects. Just give it time. I know this isn't a logical answer but we need to put in some effort! So, just pray & put in some effort. Think about the answers, for some time and count what other ways the people can adopt. You'll get your answer.
Look, I am a Muslim girl. And I am happy to be one. I mean if I can get low enough to cheat, then I wouldn't mind my husband tapping/beating me. We're humans, and sincerity is within us. You just can't say that beating/tapping is the first and only resort! It's only to be used when matters go worse. You need to be a girl to understand certain parts, like I can't really understand the male things. Our minds are different and its the beauty of it all. We have what you lack. And you have what we lack. Pairs!
Another thing, God gives everyone a chance to reform. and Retract. Maybe it is your time to get your answers straight. And get to the truest form of Deen. We all have hurdles in our path to understanding. Its a way of purification, really. For you, Atheists came out big time. This is good and bad in all ways. It will bring more humility in you. inshAllah. Atheists choose not to believe in God because they don't want to struggle to find Him. If they struggle, they'll get somewhat near. Religion and Belief doesn't come in a day! It takes months and years. Really! Been there, done that! :S
You have to understand that they do not want to believe in God anyway. They'll pick up the most metaphorical of things and abuse them. And that's the beauty of it...
And that's how God and we can know how true each person is. If he/she will put some effort into understanding things or not! Remember its not God who pushes us into Hell, its we ourselves. Our delusions and over dependence on what we actually are not.You have a right to question things if you don't understand. Because blind faith doesn't amount to much. We have so many Muslims, Christians, Hindus, etc who have blind faith... They have their Books, except they don;t want to go into them. It requires time and effort and we're not ready for that... This is Post Modernity. Everything is readymade for you. But too bad, when it comes to salvation, one has to make some major effort. It doesn;t come that easy! Its infinity afterall!
I get troubled by many questions too. Then I cry, and pray that some way will come out and answer will be there. And after some time answers do come! He helps, in a subtle way. But you have to feel it!
Just do not lose hope. If they question you rigorously, tell them that I believe in God, and want Him to be there. I shall struggle and He'll truly help me! Tell them to their face that faith & belief needs hard work. If it didn;t, He would've made us ready made believers!
And Pakistan and so many other countries.. Haaa! They are going nowhere because of their people. People have just become so different. I wonder what happened. We are a failing people today because we've depended too much on our objective reasoning. Like we can't touch the sensation of beauty, Faith cannot be touched. It has to be felt and witnessed! with eyes, ears, mind and heart!
So, please take some time... I am an impatient person too BUT its always better to be patient!
Wasalam! Prayers.
Well, thanks to all of you for your supportive and positive criticism. There are many things which I really get confused with. Specially regarding women rights because that's what i hear the most. Your replies will help me continue my struggle to know whats better because i always believe that the best way to believe something is to believe by understanding it. I am pretty sure that every thing has its reason. Allah never does anything illogically and if Allah has given us brain, definitely He wants us to find its reason otherwise angels and humans well be alike.
One thing that I would like to say that why are we so afraid that atheist will change our minds because they'll never believe in God and will twist all facts. When we know that our religion is the best then why not to defend it rather than just avoiding answering them?
We have to represent our religion and if we'll avoid such harsh questions, definitely we'll give them chance to trample us. I am of view that we should fight rationally and my penchant for answers will continue.
And perhaps its demand of my age that I need answers to everything which intrigues me. May be after a decade or so i'll also forget doing such arguments and accept everything as it is.
And one thing I'd like to add here is that people specially atheist slate us over our pride in our past. Its a irrefutable truth that soon after death of Holy Prophet there were conflicts among Muslims. Death of Hazrat Usman was a clear reflection of the aura of hatred which has started shaping in our Muslim societies.
We should also accept that Islam was spread through sword. It was not the good character of Muslim leaders which made them rulers of a large part of europe and asia. But it was definitely the good fighting skills. Once the government was established, then they would've been very kind and I don't have argument on that. The region where I live was totally destroyed by Mohammad Bin Qasim. It was a mass destruction recorded in history books.
In last, I'd reiterate my thanks to all who contributed in this discussion, it was my first day at this website, and it proved to be fruitful.
Jazakallah
One thing that I would like to say that why are we so afraid that atheist will change our minds because they'll never believe in God and will twist all facts. When we know that our religion is the best then why not to defend it rather than just avoiding answering them?
We have to represent our religion and if we'll avoid such harsh questions, definitely we'll give them chance to trample us. I am of view that we should fight rationally and my penchant for answers will continue.
And perhaps its demand of my age that I need answers to everything which intrigues me. May be after a decade or so i'll also forget doing such arguments and accept everything as it is.
And one thing I'd like to add here is that people specially atheist slate us over our pride in our past. Its a irrefutable truth that soon after death of Holy Prophet there were conflicts among Muslims. Death of Hazrat Usman was a clear reflection of the aura of hatred which has started shaping in our Muslim societies.
We should also accept that Islam was spread through sword. It was not the good character of Muslim leaders which made them rulers of a large part of europe and asia. But it was definitely the good fighting skills. Once the government was established, then they would've been very kind and I don't have argument on that. The region where I live was totally destroyed by Mohammad Bin Qasim. It was a mass destruction recorded in history books.
In last, I'd reiterate my thanks to all who contributed in this discussion, it was my first day at this website, and it proved to be fruitful.
Jazakallah
K-A-K
Junior Member
Salam
Its good that you're ready to struggle.
We're not afraid that atheists will affect our views. Only those lose faith who have not struggled to know more. A person who has put enough time and energy to understand what Belief is will not be affected.
There were times when I used to question too, more so because of atheist company, but doubts only came because of lack of knowledge. Had i been knowledgeable enough, such an instance would not have occurred. People here only intend to say that Atheists will only try to persuade you into disbelief. They can't force you to! They're advising you to make knowledge your "sword" against them.
And yes, we all have the responsibility to uphold what we believe and better have enough supportive argument! If not, then we have a shaky stronghold to begin with.
You said Islam was spread by sword. Ummm, I'd want you to revise this. You cannot generalize this huge a statement. Though there have been instances where people did monopolize , except religion remained a choice. I am a student and have studied a lot about wars, invasions, culture, literature, etc. So there have been many instances where Muslims were the ones to protect the religious rights of others despite being the opposed.
My aim is Islam itself. If people have discorded then I feel very sorry about that. I would want to know each and every detail about that. If they were wrong enough to do what they did, then WALLAHI we know God is Just. It better not affect my belief in God. He shall take everyone into account.
See, if you look at Christianity, i mean chills run down my spine when I have to study for my courses and look into the bloody history of everything. I mean England has enough of history... It was only for Power. That's all. had they been faithful enough to God, such amount of bloodshed would never have occurred. Though i do not let this annoy my view about Christianity itself. It upholds belief in God Alone too. Its just people and their evils. I do not want you to dwell over this Christianity issue. Our focus is Islam and should remain so. Nor do i mean to attack Christianity. But i quote it as an example. Don't let certain people's bad choices affect you. We all know God gives us power, wealth, health, etc to test us. and teach us. How we come out of all that, God knows best!
Just hang on, eh?!? If you want to question more, feel free. We all are anxious, curious beings.
Wasalam
Its good that you're ready to struggle.
We're not afraid that atheists will affect our views. Only those lose faith who have not struggled to know more. A person who has put enough time and energy to understand what Belief is will not be affected.
There were times when I used to question too, more so because of atheist company, but doubts only came because of lack of knowledge. Had i been knowledgeable enough, such an instance would not have occurred. People here only intend to say that Atheists will only try to persuade you into disbelief. They can't force you to! They're advising you to make knowledge your "sword" against them.
And yes, we all have the responsibility to uphold what we believe and better have enough supportive argument! If not, then we have a shaky stronghold to begin with.
You said Islam was spread by sword. Ummm, I'd want you to revise this. You cannot generalize this huge a statement. Though there have been instances where people did monopolize , except religion remained a choice. I am a student and have studied a lot about wars, invasions, culture, literature, etc. So there have been many instances where Muslims were the ones to protect the religious rights of others despite being the opposed.
My aim is Islam itself. If people have discorded then I feel very sorry about that. I would want to know each and every detail about that. If they were wrong enough to do what they did, then WALLAHI we know God is Just. It better not affect my belief in God. He shall take everyone into account.
See, if you look at Christianity, i mean chills run down my spine when I have to study for my courses and look into the bloody history of everything. I mean England has enough of history... It was only for Power. That's all. had they been faithful enough to God, such amount of bloodshed would never have occurred. Though i do not let this annoy my view about Christianity itself. It upholds belief in God Alone too. Its just people and their evils. I do not want you to dwell over this Christianity issue. Our focus is Islam and should remain so. Nor do i mean to attack Christianity. But i quote it as an example. Don't let certain people's bad choices affect you. We all know God gives us power, wealth, health, etc to test us. and teach us. How we come out of all that, God knows best!
Just hang on, eh?!? If you want to question more, feel free. We all are anxious, curious beings.
Wasalam
a_stranger
Junior Member
Brother , it is the law of Allah subhanahu wa taala that truth should be guarded by force otherwise there is no need for police anywhere. During early days of islam force was used to stop evil and oppression.
Perseveranze
Junior Member
Asalaamu Alaikum,
Azmul, with all due respect, some of those questions are quite easy to answer. With some good research and knowledge, it's very easy to debate with Atheists or anyone for that matter.
I would suggest that you use this search website, it filters out the anti-Islamic sites, and shows you results from the most relevant and authentic Islamic searches, especially those dedicated to refuting Atheists claims.
Check it out - http://www.searching-islam.co.nr
This is one example; if this is all your understanding of that topic is, then you need to widen your research. We conquered lands, but never forced people to accept Islam by the sword (forced conversions happened, however it was done in absolute rarity, much later in the history and unrepresented of Islam).
Even the kaafir Orientilists would have something to say about this;
“…We may feel certain that if Western Christians, instead of the Saracens and the Turks, had won the dominion over Asia, there would be today not a trace left of the Greek Church, and that they would never have tolerated Muhammadanism as the 'infidels' have tolerated Christianity there. We (Christians) enjoy the fine advantage of being far better versed than others in the art of killing, bombarding and exterminating the Human Race." (Bayle P., Dictionary, 'the article Mahomed', 1850)
American historian Ira Lapidus points towards "interwoven terms of political and economic benefits and of a sophisticated culture and religion" as appealing to the masses.[7] He writes that :
"The question of why people convert to Islam has always generated intense feeling. Earlier generations of European scholars believed that conversions to Islam were made at the point of the sword, and that conquered peoples were given the choice of conversion or death. It is now apparent that conversion by force, while not unknown in Muslim countries, was, in fact, rare. Muslim conquerors ordinarily wished to dominate rather than convert, and most conversions to Islam were voluntary. (...) In most cases worldly and spiritual motives for conversion blended together. Moreover, conversion to Islam did not necessarily imply a complete turning from an old to a totally new life. While it entailed the acceptance of new religious beliefs and membership in a new religious community, most converts retained a deep attachment to the cultures and communities from which they came."[7]
Every honest Jew who knows the history of his people cannot but feel a deep sense of gratitude to Islam, which has protected the Jews for fifty generations, while the Christian world persecuted the Jews and tried many times ‘by the sword’ to get them to abandon their faith. [Uri Avnery, famous 20th century Jewish writer]
The Story of Civilization, Will Durant said: "The Jewish minorities lived in peace and security with Muslims in Constantinople, Salonika, Asia Minor, Syria, Palestine, the Arabian Peninsula, Egypt, North Africa and Spain under Arab rule"
Thomas Arnold says: "When the Muslim Army reached the Jordan Valley and (the Muslim commander) Abu 'Ubaydah camped at Fihl, the Christian inhabitants of the country wrote to the Arabs saying: "Muslims, you are closer to our hearts than the Byzantine Romans, though they are of our own religion. You keep better faith with us, are more merciful and compassionate, less oppressive and unfair and better rulers. The Byzantine Romans have forced us to accept their rule, subjugated and robbed us of our property and our homes." Arnold goes on to say: "The people of Emessa (Homs) closed their gates against the army of Heraclius and told the Muslims that they preferred their government and justice to the injustice and oppression of the Greeks and the Romans." The Call to Islam, cit., p. 73.
The orientalist Thomas Arnold was right, he added, when he said in The Call to Islam: "Muslims treated Arab Christians with great tolerance from the very first century of Hijrah; and this tolerant treatment has continued throughout successive centuries. As for those Christian tribes who adopted Islam, they did so freely. Arab Christians living among Muslims today are another proof of Islam's tolerance."
The French orientalist Gustav Duka says in The History of Muslim Philosophers and Theological Scholars: "The Islamic religion exerted a great influence on the moral cultivation of its nations, on nurturing their sublime feelings and emotions and steadily elevating them. If you read the history of the Arabs before the advent of the Islamic Mission, if you fully realized the state they were in, you would surely come to believe that the tolerant Islamic sharia' played a pivotal role in nurturing and cultivating their codes of moral and ethical behaviour. Soon as that Islamic spiritual and civil reformation reached the Arab nation, justice spread, aggression ceased, lies and hypocrisy stopped."
"History has never known a more merciful conqueror than the Arabs."- French orientalist Gustav Lebon in his Arab Civilization, A. Zu'aiter, trans., Beirut: Dar 'I'hia' Al-Kitab Al-Arabi, 1956.)
The picture of the Muslim soldier advancing with a sword in one hand and the Qur'an in the other is quite false. [A. S. Tritton]
History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword is the most fantastically absurd myth that historians have ever repeated. [De Lacy O’ Leary]
Further readings;
http://islamic-replies.ucoz.com/2/Was_Islam_Spread_By_Sword.html
http://www.islamcan.com/islamic-articles/was-islam-spread-by-the-sword.shtml
http://www.themodernreligion.com/convert/sword.html
http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-about-islam/society-and-family/conveying-the-message/166957.html
http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-...ure/168765-how-did-islam-spread.html?Culture=
And please, for your sake, don't be around people who have a negative influence over you. It's quite a sad truth that people are influenced by their environments, they are challenged, unable to seek knowledge and so change their thinking. This "thinking" is always far from being objective.
Islam is the truth without flaws, if you find something wrong, then its your understanding/lack of knowledge thats wrong, not Islam. Trust me on this.
Azmul, with all due respect, some of those questions are quite easy to answer. With some good research and knowledge, it's very easy to debate with Atheists or anyone for that matter.
I would suggest that you use this search website, it filters out the anti-Islamic sites, and shows you results from the most relevant and authentic Islamic searches, especially those dedicated to refuting Atheists claims.
Check it out - http://www.searching-islam.co.nr
This is one example; if this is all your understanding of that topic is, then you need to widen your research. We conquered lands, but never forced people to accept Islam by the sword (forced conversions happened, however it was done in absolute rarity, much later in the history and unrepresented of Islam).
Even the kaafir Orientilists would have something to say about this;
“…We may feel certain that if Western Christians, instead of the Saracens and the Turks, had won the dominion over Asia, there would be today not a trace left of the Greek Church, and that they would never have tolerated Muhammadanism as the 'infidels' have tolerated Christianity there. We (Christians) enjoy the fine advantage of being far better versed than others in the art of killing, bombarding and exterminating the Human Race." (Bayle P., Dictionary, 'the article Mahomed', 1850)
American historian Ira Lapidus points towards "interwoven terms of political and economic benefits and of a sophisticated culture and religion" as appealing to the masses.[7] He writes that :
"The question of why people convert to Islam has always generated intense feeling. Earlier generations of European scholars believed that conversions to Islam were made at the point of the sword, and that conquered peoples were given the choice of conversion or death. It is now apparent that conversion by force, while not unknown in Muslim countries, was, in fact, rare. Muslim conquerors ordinarily wished to dominate rather than convert, and most conversions to Islam were voluntary. (...) In most cases worldly and spiritual motives for conversion blended together. Moreover, conversion to Islam did not necessarily imply a complete turning from an old to a totally new life. While it entailed the acceptance of new religious beliefs and membership in a new religious community, most converts retained a deep attachment to the cultures and communities from which they came."[7]
Every honest Jew who knows the history of his people cannot but feel a deep sense of gratitude to Islam, which has protected the Jews for fifty generations, while the Christian world persecuted the Jews and tried many times ‘by the sword’ to get them to abandon their faith. [Uri Avnery, famous 20th century Jewish writer]
The Story of Civilization, Will Durant said: "The Jewish minorities lived in peace and security with Muslims in Constantinople, Salonika, Asia Minor, Syria, Palestine, the Arabian Peninsula, Egypt, North Africa and Spain under Arab rule"
Thomas Arnold says: "When the Muslim Army reached the Jordan Valley and (the Muslim commander) Abu 'Ubaydah camped at Fihl, the Christian inhabitants of the country wrote to the Arabs saying: "Muslims, you are closer to our hearts than the Byzantine Romans, though they are of our own religion. You keep better faith with us, are more merciful and compassionate, less oppressive and unfair and better rulers. The Byzantine Romans have forced us to accept their rule, subjugated and robbed us of our property and our homes." Arnold goes on to say: "The people of Emessa (Homs) closed their gates against the army of Heraclius and told the Muslims that they preferred their government and justice to the injustice and oppression of the Greeks and the Romans." The Call to Islam, cit., p. 73.
The orientalist Thomas Arnold was right, he added, when he said in The Call to Islam: "Muslims treated Arab Christians with great tolerance from the very first century of Hijrah; and this tolerant treatment has continued throughout successive centuries. As for those Christian tribes who adopted Islam, they did so freely. Arab Christians living among Muslims today are another proof of Islam's tolerance."
The French orientalist Gustav Duka says in The History of Muslim Philosophers and Theological Scholars: "The Islamic religion exerted a great influence on the moral cultivation of its nations, on nurturing their sublime feelings and emotions and steadily elevating them. If you read the history of the Arabs before the advent of the Islamic Mission, if you fully realized the state they were in, you would surely come to believe that the tolerant Islamic sharia' played a pivotal role in nurturing and cultivating their codes of moral and ethical behaviour. Soon as that Islamic spiritual and civil reformation reached the Arab nation, justice spread, aggression ceased, lies and hypocrisy stopped."
"History has never known a more merciful conqueror than the Arabs."- French orientalist Gustav Lebon in his Arab Civilization, A. Zu'aiter, trans., Beirut: Dar 'I'hia' Al-Kitab Al-Arabi, 1956.)
The picture of the Muslim soldier advancing with a sword in one hand and the Qur'an in the other is quite false. [A. S. Tritton]
History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword is the most fantastically absurd myth that historians have ever repeated. [De Lacy O’ Leary]
Further readings;
http://islamic-replies.ucoz.com/2/Was_Islam_Spread_By_Sword.html
http://www.islamcan.com/islamic-articles/was-islam-spread-by-the-sword.shtml
http://www.themodernreligion.com/convert/sword.html
http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-about-islam/society-and-family/conveying-the-message/166957.html
http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-...ure/168765-how-did-islam-spread.html?Culture=
And please, for your sake, don't be around people who have a negative influence over you. It's quite a sad truth that people are influenced by their environments, they are challenged, unable to seek knowledge and so change their thinking. This "thinking" is always far from being objective.
Islam is the truth without flaws, if you find something wrong, then its your understanding/lack of knowledge thats wrong, not Islam. Trust me on this.
I'll have to differ on the point that Forced conversions were rare.
I belong to Province of Sindh (Indus Valley), Pakistan. We have a long history of invaders due to the richness of resources available here. I have read many history books regarding the invasions over Sindh. And it is well established fact that Muslims caused great chaos here. Our whole cities were destroyed and people were left with either the choice to accept Islam or embrace death.
There has been a very cruel history in our part of world regarding Muslim invasions, more so than any other religion. Britishers conquered our land but they were far better than Muslims. If you sisters and brothers get time, i'll request you to read the Muslim history of subcontinent and understand why Muslims attacked this land and what treatment they did with us.
I don't mean to say that any other religion is more humble than Islam, Islam was the last religion to come and therefore its is far better than others. But there are misconceptions regarding our history. I know many will disagree but I am not talking without any authority, if you wish to confirm, please read history of Subcontinent.
I belong to Province of Sindh (Indus Valley), Pakistan. We have a long history of invaders due to the richness of resources available here. I have read many history books regarding the invasions over Sindh. And it is well established fact that Muslims caused great chaos here. Our whole cities were destroyed and people were left with either the choice to accept Islam or embrace death.
There has been a very cruel history in our part of world regarding Muslim invasions, more so than any other religion. Britishers conquered our land but they were far better than Muslims. If you sisters and brothers get time, i'll request you to read the Muslim history of subcontinent and understand why Muslims attacked this land and what treatment they did with us.
I don't mean to say that any other religion is more humble than Islam, Islam was the last religion to come and therefore its is far better than others. But there are misconceptions regarding our history. I know many will disagree but I am not talking without any authority, if you wish to confirm, please read history of Subcontinent.
a_stranger
Junior Member
But brother , no body said muslem are angels, they are humans , some are muslems by name only , . More Did you ask who wrote that history ? The most important thing that you meet your Lord with a pure heart full of his love and follow his commands in this dunya. Islam is perfect while muslems are humans with different levels of faith and good deeds. The problem arise when muslems have very little knoweldge of Quran and Sunna and their minds are washed by people who have no faith no knoweldge in Islam. please Quran and Sunna again but with sincere heart.
Of course I agree with you. But the point here was that few of our fellows were reluctant to agree to the fact that Muslims have been equally ruthless like other nations. Muslims were also driven with the lust of power. Why not to accept it?