MUSLIMS TAKING OVER EUROPE

Discussion in 'New and Current Affairs' started by esperanza, Aug 17, 2011.

  1. Aapa
    Offline

    Aapa Mirajmom

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,991
    Likes Received:
    71
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Gender:
    Female
    Ratings Received:
    +150 / 12
    Assalaam walaikum,

    Sister..blame it on TTI. I used to be a moderate being. The more I learn and practice my faith the more I do not wish to step one centimeter off the path.
  2. Seeking Allah's Mercy
    sunnah
    Offline

    Seeking Allah's Mercy Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2008
    Messages:
    4,290
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Locating. . .
    Ratings Received:
    +220 / 0
    Yeah we need you around for cases like these. I don't see the harm in being extreme in following what we are created for? One shouldn't be shy in fulfilling his/her purpose, Right?. Its our job to love, obey and submit to the will of Allaah Sobhanuhu wa taa'la, to be at peace, love His creation for His sake and spread the message of love, light and knowledge *Smile*

    Tell me I got that right*Grins*
  3. Aapa
    Offline

    Aapa Mirajmom

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,991
    Likes Received:
    71
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Gender:
    Female
    Ratings Received:
    +150 / 12
    Assalaam walaikum,

    Sister...Muslims are meant to take over the entire world. That is our purpose to uphold the Laws of Allah. He is the one we will meet, Insha'Allah.

    Now, that does not mean we act in a manner less than what we are told to do. We will find conflict with those who are dis-believers,non-believers, and un-believers. I am still sorting that out. We know the outcome. His Will.

    Back to topic.

    One thing at a time. I am going to be longwinded for a moment.

    I read once upon a time a story about the Taliban. I reflected upon the story. I came across an article that explained the actions of the Taliban and I was deeply touched:

    An article appeared in a magazine. I do not remember the name of the magazine. The writer described how the Taliban men were walking with the womenfolk. They came to a section where there were many kuffir men. The Taliban would not allow the women to look in the direction of the kuffir men. They "made" the women turn around and look at the direction of the mountains.

    At first my blood boiled. How dare these men prohibit the women and limit them. However, the writer explained the Taliban were being protective of the women. The women did not have to be exposed to the lecherous looks of kuffir men. The women did not have to be tempted by looking at the beauty of the kuffir men.

    My point being sometimes we need to analyze the behaviors/actions to understand the wisdom behind it. It reminds me of Sura Cave and Moses.
  4. ShahnazZ
    Offline

    ShahnazZ Striving2BeAStranger

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,398
    Likes Received:
    43
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    New York City a.k.a. The Devil's Playground
    Ratings Received:
    +72 / 0
    Aaaand here we go. :)
  5. Asja
    sisterly
    Offline

    Asja Pearl of Islaam

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2008
    Messages:
    3,431
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    University student
    Location:
    Europe
    Ratings Received:
    +84 / 5

    Assalamu allaicum wa raahmatullah wa baarakatuhu

    Dear brother I do not understand what do you mean when you mention the term " Islamist", because as we all know like a Muslims is that this kind of termin can be used only in positive sense and never in the negative sense Astagfirullah, like for example when we refer on one Islamic country in which is applied Shariah Law,and we will call these country us Islamic country Alhadmulillah.

    I do not wish to speak without enough knowledge, but from how I know Afghanistan is the only Muslim country where is applied the most of Shariah Law, and Allah knows the best for everything.

    That is why I do not understand brother why do you ascribe the actions of Talibans as something wrong, when we as Muslims know that Alhadmulilah it is order from Allah that as Muslim woman we cover ourselfe, that stonning is also prescribed in Quran and Sunnah for the sake of all Islamic society,and that worshiping places like statues or idols Astagfirullah must be destroyed.

    Regarding other parts which you have mentioned dear brother, we do not know is everything that truth, except that Allah knows the best.

    I would mention the rights and obligations of non Muslims who may live in Islamic state or Islamic country, but Inshallah if I gain more knowledge about it ,I will.

    May Allah forgive me if I said anything wrong and guide all Muslims. Ameen ya Rabby

    :wasalam:
  6. esperanza
    Sick
    Offline

    esperanza revert of many years

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,830
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    teacher
    Location:
    middle east
    Ratings Received:
    +11 / 0
    saudi arabia appplies full islamic shariah law
  7. MohammedMaksudul
    Offline

    MohammedMaksudul May Allah Forgive us

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2010
    Messages:
    1,060
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Dhaka, Bangladesh
    Ratings Received:
    +5 / 0
    Does saudia arabia applies full shariah law ? Are you sure ?
  8. esperanza
    Sick
    Offline

    esperanza revert of many years

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,830
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    teacher
    Location:
    middle east
    Ratings Received:
    +11 / 0
    well which areas do you think it does not
  9. MohammedMaksudul
    Offline

    MohammedMaksudul May Allah Forgive us

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2010
    Messages:
    1,060
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Dhaka, Bangladesh
    Ratings Received:
    +5 / 0
    There is a permanent American base there in Saudi, are you aware of that ?
  10. esperanza
    Sick
    Offline

    esperanza revert of many years

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,830
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    teacher
    Location:
    middle east
    Ratings Received:
    +11 / 0
    of course,,, im not talking about theri cooperation wiht americans..but the islamic law................
  11. YusufN
    Offline

    YusufN Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings Received:
    +0 / 0
    :wasalam:

    I meant "Islamist". The only term for it in the west. If you can find another term for it I will use it Insha'Allah. :)

    And I don't understand by when you say stoning is an Islamic punishment or woman must be confined to homes. It actually is not and Islamic punishment for Adultery as the Quran (24:2) clearly states the punishment must be 100 for each not stoning or death.

    Also on the matter of Taliban many of there actions described actually have no basis in Islam and actually conflict with Islam. I don't understand how you can claim there not doing something wrong. If I show you another list of there atrocities can you reconsider your stance on them?

    -Suicide bombings on schools/hospitals/civilian infrastructure
    - Harbouring and defending terrorists (most known one was called Osama bin Laden)
    -Hiding within the civilan population
    -Collateral damage
    -Hanging of children as young as 7 ( they accused a seven year old of 'spying' for foreign soilders)
    -Brutal executions and torture
    -Dealing opium but banning other drugs just so they can continue to deal opium
    -banning electronics and stoning those who use them
    -Destroying graves of others (Non-Muslim and even muslims who disagreed with them)
    -extreme corruption/stealing/looting
    -got rid of all education and employment for women

    Would our our Prophet :saw: approve of this?!?!
  12. YusufN
    Offline

    YusufN Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings Received:
    +0 / 0
    :wasalam:

    I am is that a bad thing on this site loool?
  13. Aapa
    Offline

    Aapa Mirajmom

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,991
    Likes Received:
    71
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Gender:
    Female
    Ratings Received:
    +150 / 12
    Assalaam walaikum,

    The purpose of this site is to propagate Islam. This is a learning too. It corrects misconceptions about Islam.

    Would you be so kind as to give me a definition of moderate Muslims and where you got the definition. What does that mean to you. And how does that differ for you from the fundamentalist, so to speak.

    This serves to assist in facilitating communication.
  14. YusufN
    Offline

    YusufN Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings Received:
    +0 / 0
    :wasalam:

    By moderate I mean 'someone who supports equal rights and values'. One such issue is the one of divorce. They tend to not support the 'triple talaq' ruling. They also then to believe in woman's education, less harsh punishments and such.

    When discussing Fundamentals, I don't really like to use the term. I don't know why, but I don't use the term. When dressing specific groups such as the Taliban (as we are currently discussing) I tend to call them 'Radicals' as they are accepting of certain radical practices, and many of which are extreme and not so tolerant.
  15. Aapa
    Offline

    Aapa Mirajmom

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,991
    Likes Received:
    71
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Gender:
    Female
    Ratings Received:
    +150 / 12
    Assalaam walaikum,

    I have to be brief. Thank you.

    Why does it become a we/they thing?

    And can you give me a specific about divorce. Thanks...I'll be back later..
  16. YusufN
    Offline

    YusufN Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings Received:
    +0 / 0
    :wasalam:

    Thank you!

    It's not necessarily a 'we/they' thing, It's just we have different views and interpretations. They (Radicals as I call them) base their life around the Allah's revelations and so do I. The text is the same but it's just how we view them. Maybe I'm right or maybe they are. None knows but Allah.

    They pray 5 times a day and so do I. They fast and so do I. They want to be better Muslims and so do I. It's just that I have a different view on life then they do. Do you understand where I'm going?

    If someone can back up their opinion logically using the Quran or a 'shahih' Hadith then they are entitled to their opinion. On the Taliban and other such groups, they do certain practices which I disapprove of and I argue against them. As I have said earlier it's not necessarily a 'we/they' thing, It's just we have different views and interpretations.

    Also the divorce issue, some Muslims believe that the men have the right to divorce their wife anytime. This is actually practiced in a very few places. This goes against Islamic teachings doesn't it?
  17. Asja
    sisterly
    Offline

    Asja Pearl of Islaam

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2008
    Messages:
    3,431
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    University student
    Location:
    Europe
    Ratings Received:
    +84 / 5
    Assalamu allaicum wa raahmatullah wa barakatuhu dear brother

    I did not said dear brother that it is wrong to use termin " Islamist" but I have said that it is wrong to use it in the negative sense, like some Muslim or non Muslims can say that " Islamist" means that one who is radical in Islam, Astagfirullah. Instead of " Islamist", it is better for us to use termin " Islamic". And Allah knows the best.

    Stonning to death is from Islam dear brother and it is not wrong, extreme or invented rulling in Islam from Talibans,and this kind of punishmet has been present in many Muslim countries from the past untill today.

    And dear brother although it may seem to us that this kind of punishment can be cruel and we may even feel sadness for other people to be punished, but we as Muslims need to be justice in everything and believe that this kind of punishemt is the only just and that it it is only for the sake of good of whole Islamic society.

    The reason why Allah has ordered for us this kind of punishmnet is for the sake of keeping chasity and dignity of all Muslim and Alhamdulillah that is much more importante than punishment.

    We as Muslims need to follow both Quran and Sunnah brother, as Allah sais:And fear the Fire, which is prepared for the disbelievers,and obey Allah and the Messenger (Muhammad ) that you may obtain mercy.( Surah Ali Imran, ayah 131, 132)

    "Make not the calling of the Messenger (Muhammad ) among you as your calling of one another. Allah knows those of you who slip away under shelter (of some excuse without taking the permission to leave, from the Messenger ). And let those who oppose the Messenger's (Muhammad ) commandment (i.e. his Sunnah legal ways, orders, acts of worship, statements, etc.) (among the sects) beware, lest some Fitnah (disbelief, trials, afflictions, earthquakes, killing, overpowered by a tyrant, etc.) befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them." ( Surah An Nur)

    "But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad ) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission." ( Surah An Nissa, ayah 65)


    I have shared remainder with you brother about words of Allah for following Sunnah of our Prophet sallahu alayha wa salah because we are Muslims, so it is obligatory for us to follow the Sunnah of our Prophet if we do belive in Allah.

    And also please read the hadeeth of our Prophet as a proves for rulling about stoning to death for adultary.And Allah knows the best.

    Sahih Muslim, Book 17, Chapter 6: Stoning to Death of Jews and Other Dhimmis In Cases of Adultery, Number 4216: Jabir b.'Abdullah reported that Allah's Apostle stoned (to death) a person from Banu Aslam, and a Jew and his wife.

    Narrated 'Aisha: Sad bin Abi Waqqas and 'Abu bin Zam'a quarreled over a boy. Sad said, "O Allah's Apostle! This boy is the son of my brother ('Utba bin Abi Waqqas) who took a promise from me that I would take him as he was his (illegal) son. Look at him and see whom he resembles." 'Abu bin Zam'a said, "O Allah's Apostle! This is my brother and was born on my father's bed from his slave-girl." Allah's Apostle cast a look at the boy and found definite resemblance to 'Utba and then said, "The boy is for you, O 'Abu bin Zam'a. The child goes to the owner of the bed and the adulterer gets nothing but the stones (despair, i.e. to be stoned to death). Then the Prophet said, "O Sauda bint Zama! Screen yourself from this boy." So, Sauda never saw him again.( Saheeh Bukhari)

    Narrated Jabir: A man from the tribe of Bani Aslam came to the Prophet while he was in the mosque and said, "I have committed illegal sexual intercourse." The Prophet turned his face to the other side. The man turned towards the side towards which the Prophet had turned his face, and gave four witnesses against himself. On that the Prophet called him and said, "Are you insane?" (He added), "Are you married?" The man said, 'Yes." On that the Prophet ordered him to be stoned to the death in the Musalla (a praying place). When the stones hit him with their sharp edges and he fled, but he was caught at Al-Harra and then killed( Saheeh Bukhari)

    Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 23: Funerals, Number 413: Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: The Jew brought to the Prophet a man and a woman from amongst them who have committed (adultery) illegal sexual intercourse. He ordered both of them to be stoned (to death), near the place of offering the funeral prayers beside the mosque."


    May Allah forgive me if I said anything wrong and I pray to Allah that He guides us all to the right path. Ameen ya Rabby:tti_sister:

    :wasalam:
  18. MohammedMaksudul
    Offline

    MohammedMaksudul May Allah Forgive us

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2010
    Messages:
    1,060
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Dhaka, Bangladesh
    Ratings Received:
    +5 / 0
    :salam2:

    Don't tell me you reject the sahih hadith brother YusufN.
  19. Just a Guy
    Offline

    Just a Guy Reinventing Myself

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    730
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Wherever I am
    Ratings Received:
    +8 / 0
    :salam2:

    Well, alrighty then. Another one of these threads. I've seen too many of these in the last few months.

    I find it amusing and disturbing at the same time that non-Muslims in Europe are freaking out over the "Muslim Invasion" of Europe. As if 5% of a population is really an invasion.

    I saw a video online sponsored by a Christian organization some months back that discussed this very thing. It was talking about the high Muslim birth rates coupled with the fact that in traditional Western "Christian" societies, people are having fewer kids, means that the Muslims are growing at a faster rate than the Christians.

    It didn't mention anything about conversions, but made it seem like the Muslims are just having kids to outbreed the Christians. Typical Western paranoia regarding Islam. It was a USA organization, so the video concluded with fears that "they're coming here next!"

    I was amused and offended at the same time.
  20. YusufN
    Offline

    YusufN Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings Received:
    +0 / 0
    :salam2:

    Thank you for the the Hadith! Masha'Allah! But I think dont think that Hadith is 'shahih'.

    But can I ask you a question? Did the prophet :saw: follow the Quran completely?

    If so... then why did he stone people to death? The answer is obvious. He didn't stone nobody. It says in the Quran the punishment and it makes it very clear as the Quran is the clearest and greatest...

    (Quran 24:2: The [unmarried] woman or [unmarried] man found guilty of sexual intercourse - lash each one of them with a hundred lashes, and do not be taken by pity for them in the religion of Allah , if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a group of the believers witness their punishment.)

    As you can see here the punishment for adultery is 100 lashes. Not stoning to death. The Prophet :saw: clearly followed the Quran so that makes the stoning Hadith unreliable.


    Show me in the Quran where it says stoning to death is a punishment? It's not a punishment. It's an innovation.

    The Quran it'self says it's the best Hadith.


    (Quran 4:87: Allah - there is no deity except Him. He will surely assemble you for [account on] the Day of Resurrection, about which there is no doubt. And who is more truthful than Allah in statement?)

    Quran 39:23: Allah has sent down the best statement: a consistent Book wherein is reiteration. The skins shiver therefrom of those who fear their Lord; then their skins and their hearts relax at the remembrance of Allah . That is the guidance of Allah by which He guides whom He wills. And one whom Allah leaves astray - for him there is no guide.)


    The Quran itself says to follow no other sources but the Quran.


    (Quran 77:50: Then in what statement after the Qur'an will they believe?)

    (Quran 45:6: These are the verses of Allah which We recite to you in truth. Then in what statement after Allah and His verses will they believe?)

    The Hadith does not abrogate the Quran. Never will, never does. I only accept an Hadith if it fits my very strict criteria.

    Imam Bhukari and other writers have made many mistakes with their corrupt Hadith collection, so how can them believe them him over Allah in punishment????

    Please answer the Question (Does Imam Bhukari's Hadith abrogate the Quran?) I posted as I would like to be more knowledgable. Sorry If I made any mistake in my opinion and please correct me or my traslations if I did.

    Sidenotes
    - (The word Hadith means 'revelation' or 'story' and out of the 36 times it says the word, all of it refers to Allah's Hadith: The Quran).
    -(The Verse you showed me about our prophet :saw: only refers to the companions. It is impossible for Muhammad :saw: to be our judge currently. Therefor we must follow only what Allah has brought down).
    -(The other verse about obeying Muhammad :saw: does not mean follow Bhukari's corrupt Hadith, but it means obey him by following his sole purpose; delivering the message: The Quran)


    :wasalam: and let the argument begin :(

Share This Page